Lifted Up

Dunno. I saw the story earlier today and it doesnt say. My first impression is like yours; are you kidding? on a private conversation? But since there's a lot we don't know yet, I will withhold further comment.

Just to clarify; Rick Ross was not involved in my deprogramming, which took place almost 28 years ago. But I can certainly see the truth in the last part of RG's statement that I quoted.

Vile act, no kidding. Now I never did understand how much money was involved in my case, but it was bad enough without that factor, even if the deprogrammers had gotten only expenses.

In your case, while acknowledging the clinical side of depression, did part or much of the treatment consist of alleviating those bad situations? I mean, I have heras of people who are depressed who (seemingly) have everything, and I have heard of people depressed who had been fine earlier, but became depressed as the result of a great loss. Is there a significant difference?

If you were on Mars, you might be just about ready to turn 21!!!!!!! Happy Birthday!!!

No replies? Well, space shuttles are a little bit like baseball unpiring (Why do I have to keep bringing up that subject?) . When nothing goes wrong, nobody knows who the ump is. When things are not routine, everyome is looking and commenting (Just ask Tim McClellend about the playoffs this year and about his rookie pine tar year). Launch went well after they shed worries about a chunk of ice on the fuel line. Now they have work to do.

Nicole, I know that no one around here, no matter what our view of our time in the way and the things we were taught, is going to knock your past or your family's past. And as far as having the best of intentions and being good, well very good people, quite a few of us can testify to that specifically about your parents, as well as about others and about ourselves. (Including many of us 8th corps heh heh.) But, i see where you are coming from. No matter how we see our time in the Way, we understand. Those on the outside we meet, no matter how good their intentions, don't understand. And it is those people we have to deal with in our lives every day, no matter how much time we spend here "in the choir". There are people who experienced and/or saw bad things in the way, more than I did, who are very angry about it and say so in no uncertain terms. But if you get to know these people, they are also the ones who wonderfully understand how great so many people were in spite of the bad they saw done. As I said once in that other thread, I know your dad was his own person. He may have followed instructions of leadership, as we all did, but he gave in his own way, as did so many. The problem I guess is those outside hear the stuff about how bad it was for some, and DON'T understand that people could still be very wonderful while in TWI. I don't have THE solution for what or how much to tell the people in the "world" you encounter every day. But as you consider this issue, no matter what you decide, you obviously have the strength to live with whatever you tell them. For what it is worth, maybe not much, I would suggest, whatever, if anything, you decide to tell people about your past and your family's past, tell them with the same tone you have told it to us here. You have said it so wonderfully, and I think you are soooo terrifically dealing with this subject. Just my opinion, of course. :) :) :)

I made it before it was over...Happy Birthday!!! Now you don't have to have another one tomorrow. 10 Reasons Why I Love Duluth 1. The lake and the Lakewalk; you know what the Lakewalk is like if you live here. 2. Duluth is a natural if you have an affection for hockey at all levels. 3. Skyline Drive from Hawks Ridge...or Tompsen Hill....or Enger Tower. 4. Low level of crime despite the schmuck gangs from Chi and Mpls trying to get a foothold in this city. 5. The Hacienda del Sol....not much atmosphere, but man, the food! 6. The Munger Trail...biking or walking, it doesn't matter. 7. Hockey Season at the DECC....UMD Bulldog and Duluth East hockey can't be beat. 8. Canal Park on any warm summer night...IF you can find a parking spot. 9. Cool summer days when most folks elsewhere are running for the air conditioning. 10. Our balcony on the first warm evening during the spring, sitting and watching boat traffic on the Duluth-Superior harbor. 10 Reasons Why I Hate Duluth 1. The drivers...too slow, too old, with no %$##! sense of common road sense! 2. Winters....what, you enjoy going out to start your car on a -30 January morning?? 3. Duluth's streets...yep, they're fixing them, but will they need re-fixing by the time they finally get them all fixed? What a sham. 4. People walking on the blacktopped portion of the Lakewalk three-abreast when they should be on the wooden portion and you're trying to squeeze your bike (or roller blades) around them. Plus the occasional indignation they show that you dare to want to share "their space". 5. No good local places for a computer purchase...but then, with Dell computers available through the Internet, why should that matter? 6. Liberals. Nuff said. Oh, add Republicants while you're at it; both sides are sickeningly polarizing. 7. Lack of an expressway to the Miller Hill Mall. 8. Local politics. Forget that "Minnesota Nice" garbage; they're as cutthroat here as anyplace else. 9. First Street on most any night. "Got a quarter, man?" 10. Winters (yep, it was already covered, but they're bad enough to warrant a second mention)

Hopefully this morning...if the weather cooperates. STS-120 is the 23rd shuttle mission to the International Space Station, and will launch an Italian-built U.S. multi-port module for the station. Retired Air Force Col. Pamela A. Melroy will command the STS-120 mission to take the Node 2 connecting module to the station. Melroy, a veteran shuttle pilot, is the second woman to command a shuttle. Marine Corps Col. George D. Zamka will serve as pilot. The flight's mission specialists will be Scott E. Parazynski, Army Col. Douglas H. Wheelock, Stephanie D. Wilson and Paolo A. Nespoli, a European Space Agency astronaut from Italy. Zamka, Wheelock and Nespoli will be making their first spaceflight. Expedition 15/16 Flight Engineer Clayton Anderson will return to Earth from the space station aboard shuttle mission STS-120. That flight will carry his replacement, Daniel Tani, to the station. Tani will return on shuttle mission STS-122.

It is wrong because that is not offering choice. If that Christian is right, others, if they are going to believe, must choose to believe. IMO you cannot really believe in Christ if you are not allowed the choice not to believe, no matter how much you say you embrace Christ...or to put it in other words, if you are not allowed the choice to discard Chrsitianity, you cannot truly believe in Him. Of course, that applies to any religious belief. They may be wrong (or right), but not because of what you believe to be true.

True. I assume by proof you don't mean convincing one person but showing everybody. And yes, our "belief systems" are often based on our experiences, which are as different as each of us are. But I know we don't live in different universes. Like, where Christ rose from the dead in your universe and didnt rise (or didnt exist) in mine. You are certainly correct in describing them as different belief systems, and not different universes.

Tom Cheney. And I think the name was, shall we say, politically expedient. In DC the Senators were usually called the Nats for short anyway. Agreed from another Indians fan. He should get the Cy Young even totally disregarding (as it is) the postseason. The greatest one IMO was Carlton the year he won 27 for the last place Phillies.

I guess I thought I could get this post on (the one I am replying to) and the post that was fully quoted on it...so refer back to Oldies' recent post to see both... So, speaking of sticking points, its another reason I hacent gottem more involved on this thread...as Oldies mentioned before, the level of the debate...on both sides. And not being the one who sunk first doesnt change that.

No argument with you there, because that's what I said in my self quoted post. That was really the basis of my "word to the wise" remark to Oldies.

I guess. As long as I dont hear something like, "I see abortion as the ending of a life; that makes the coerced abortions in TWI even worse", then whe outside of TWI it becomes "I see abortion as the ending of a life, but I dont want to make that judgement for someone else". Now, don't forget to "read my lips"...on my original post from yesterday (already 3 or 4 pages back I guess) Oh gee, I'll paste it in here... "It is one thing to knock TWI for forcing abortions. If that is what TWI did, then there is a case, IMO, for saying they did a great wrong, whether or not one believes that baby/fetus is a life before birth. I guess I am saying/agreeing here that the "life begins with the first breath" doctrine, even if true, does not justify coercing someone into having an abortion." I think this is a big issue, as well as one reason i called the consistency issue a big sticking point. It's only my opinion, but having lived here for over 27 years, I think consistency on this same abortion issue...not so much his stated position on the issue...was a factor in our former Senate Majority Leader being defeated for re-election a few years ago. Hit a button extraneously when sending...edited only to get rid of the double post.

Yes, Oldies, this is a big sticking point with me, and I mean BIG. It's just a little bit like being a baseball umpire (which I am). Coaches and managers usually dont gripe too much about my strike zone being too big for them or too little, as long as it is consistent. But if I have a big strike zone for one team and a little one for the other, then the coach is going to get all over my case...as he should. If the unborn is a life and an "innocent " or "murder" victim of TWI because TWI coerced an abortion, but suddenly becomes "just a fetus" when we are dealing with the abortion subject in the "non TWI" world, then, to me, the case is lost for any wrong that has been done. I (as many others) may sharply disagree on the subject of abortion, but if their stated views remain consistent, I can maintain a high degree of respect for the person. Just as (I think) my immediate supervisor at work does, despite the time I called his son out on a pitch he thought was too high, because he knows I have a consistently big strike zone for the kids. (some of the pitchers at that age have a hard time finding the zone, and I dont feel like walking 10 batters an inning, so if it is within reach, they'd better swing.) And a word to the wise, ( read between the lines) by a BIG sticking point, I mean that you might want to hope it doesnt become unstuck.

Maybe our backgrounds are different, or maybe you are considering a lot of preachers from the TV type pulpits... or maybe both... But in my experience I havent heard that... at least not from the ministers I have listended to live in the United Methodist Church...which is a pretty big group. While I dont recall hearing any of them openly ADVOCATING abortion, I have heard enough to know that they dont consider abortion to be the taking of a life. the ones I have listened to live anyway. I would bet that some others probably do...but the ones that don't would take care of the "only" word.

The latest from the Mars Exploration Rover Mission homepage... Spirit Begins Third Martian Year As it finished its second Martian year on Mars, NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Spirit was beginning to examine a group of angular rocks given informal names corresponding to peaks in the Colorado Rockies. A Martian year -- the amount of time it takes Mars to complete one orbit around the sun -- lasts for 687 Earth days. Spirit completed its second Martian year on the rover's 1,338th Martian day, or sol, corresponding to Oct. 8, 2007. Two days later, on sol 1,340 (Oct. 10, 2007), Spirit used its front hazard-identification camera to capture this wide-angle view of its robotic arm extended to a rock informally named "Humboldt Peak." For the rocks at this site on the southern edge of the "Home Plate" platform in the inner basin of the Columbia Hills inside Gusev Crater, the rover team decided to use names of Colorado peaks higher than 14,000 feet. The Colorado Rockies team of the National League is the connection to the baseball-theme nomenclature being used for features around Home Plate. The tool facing Spirit on the turret at the end of the robotic arm is the Mössbauer spectrometer. __________________________________________________ So...my question...are the Rockies really from mars???

hey, that's MY time!!! The problem with those years is that many times senators pitchers had woefully little help...and I'm not just talking about the bats. there was the time (I was there) a Senators pitcher, I can't remember who it was, struck out a Cleveland Indian with the bases loaded and two out in the top of the 9th, and the Senators up by one. Trouble was the catcher (whose name i DO remember, Mike Brumley) lost the ball. It wasnt a wile pitch; he just let it roll away from him. he couldnt get it in time, the tying run scored as the batter reached first base, and the Indians won it later in the inning. The headline in the Post sports section the next morning was "Nats lose after 3 out in 9th". Yes, the batter can go on the third strike despite first base being occupied, because there were two out.

WW, I do not have that impression at all. Judging from the debates I have seen around me, there are plenty of Christians who do not consider abortions to be taking a life. Christians who have nor have never had any connection whatsoever to TWI. True, I cannot guarantee they are Christians, just as I canot judge that they are not for taking such a position. But a lot of the arguments on both sides have come from church people. Of course, we can debate the abortion subject forever and get rather heated, I suppose. My purpose in entering here is that I have a sticking point with consistency. If TWI being responsible for the death of innocents includes those aborted. then many in "the world" are doing the same thing. It is one thing to knock TWI for forcing abortions. If that is what TWI did, then there is a case, IMO, for saying they did a great wrong, whether or not one believes that baby/fetus is a life before birth. I guess I am saying/agreeing here that the "life begins with the first breath" doctrine, even if true, does not justify coercing someone into having an abortion. But if someone calls it the taking of a life, or even murder, to further "demonize" the evil done by TWI, then backs off on the life issue when the subject gets to non TWI related abortions, that IMO kills the argument of a great wrong being done, because they are using a glaring double standard. If those aborted are innocents who died at the hand of TWI, then there are millions of innocents as well who have died at the hands of others not connected with TWI.

What Pitchers' duel, I know!!! Still, if Wakefield doesnt deflect that sharp grounder.......

Wakefield and Byrd are both making batters look silly. Who says you need power pitchers for a pitchers' duel?

Joe pitched a 1-2-3 9th to save it???!!!

Ten to one says we'll finally get a Sox fan or two to chime in here in the next few minutes. They sure have been silent so far...

5th inning, 3 ground ball outs!