Mister P-Mosh

Actually, I forget the precise insult, but they say something like, "Damn your mother's religion!" to each other.

This is just out of curiosity, don't worry because I won't be marketing anything to you all or anything. This is based off of a topic in the politics forum that brought up income. If you make great money, please don't brag about it. Polls are anonymous for a reason.

A problem with this is that most Muslim leaders have denounced murder altogether, but they don't make the news because they aren't killing people. The ten commandments apply to Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Thou Shalt Not Kill. It's pretty basic, and all three religions supposedly believe it, despite the fact that all three holy books of those religions are full of killing and in some cases murder. What I think would be a more interesting conversation though would be what happened to make some Muslims ok with killing? What changed from the days of the caliphates where Jews and Christians were seen as equals? Where did the different sects such as Sunni and Shia come from and what is different about them? I think if we answered some of these questions here, a more accurate view of what is really going on would emerge. Also, I find it odd that you would believe the media more than you would someone you know. I know you trust the media more than reading what I've written about my own conversations, but I tend to prefer to make my decisions based upon people with the facts over people just out to make some money or whip up fear like the media. Something interesting about this topic is that despite my Muslim friends, some of whom have quit or who have simply "lapsed", I never heard about the concept of killing someone who left. They seemed to drop it pretty easily, and I've only met one or two Muslims who had to pray towards Mecca on a regular basis. Maybe you don't hear many Muslims denouncing the killing of people who leave because it isn't a common problem?

How many congressmen have spoken out against Jesus publicly? I was discussing hypotheticals. If you want to talk about real events, I can provide those too. How about the Christians that bomb womans health clinics or shoot abortion doctors? You might argue that they are not mainstream Christians and that I would be using examples of extremists to demonize all Christians. If that's the case, you might actually be able to get my point. You're ascribing to religion the tenets of dictatorship. From what I've seen, beheadings and mysogeny are not part of mainstream islam, but rather due to political dictatorships and their strongarm tactics. Sure, they like to wrap themselves up in religion just like George W. Bush does when he bombs people, but the fact is that the problems are political in nature. The thing is, you don't see the news reporting on the fact that Pakistan was run by a woman until the current dictator Musharraff took over in a coup. You won't see that women don't have to wear burkhas in Jordan. You don't see that historically speaking, Jews and Christians are viewed as protected minorities in Muslim-run countries. I encourage you to read up on your history. Read about the Persian empire (watching 300 doesn't count), read up on Spain when it was under Muslim rule, and try to learn something other than your biased sources. It would be better for you to talk to actual Muslims, but you've already showed your hatred for those you don't know so I doubt that would happen. Note that in your message to Dan you said "many" rather than all or a majority. I guess we are making some progress then. As far as the physical violence is concerned, TWI is not the worst of the worst. One of my goals in constantly arguing about this is to get people to see that there is no monolithic "Islam" any more than there is a monolithic Christianity. The problem is that what you and others here are doing is combining moderate Muslims in with the equivalent of the Christian snake handlers. Most people do this out of either ignorance or bigotry, and I'm assuming the former around here. I've always been one to speak up for the underdog, especially when they are being misrepresented. Again, as you glossed over in my last post, I have friends and one relative that are Muslims, and they don't believe in any of the nonsense you attribute to them. They are some of the most tolerant people I know when it comes to other religions including Judaism. This doesn't jive with what you post or what I see on the news. I think it's dishonest to represent all Muslims based upon the extremists.

It is ok to ask, and I do not believe in any of the stuff you mentioned that I quoted above. The reason why is because I see no reason to believe in any of it. Over time, I started questioning things and decided that there's no proof of any of it, and that there should be evidence if it were true.

I understand that point of view and can see how I would have thought the exact same thing when I was in TWI. I left shortly before 9/11 so I didn't have the...ummm..."opportunity" to hear what they had to say, but I'd bet they would take what you said, then take it further and say that they attacked because 1) people don't abundantly share enough of their income, 2) because the adversary hated all the witnessing that people in TWI were doing, and 3) because gay people were not being openly executed in the streets. They probably also said that no TWI believers were hurt in 9/11, which is probably true because there are so few people in TWI anymore that it became less statistically likely. Anyway, you're right. I don't believe that "the spiritual point of view" is really valid, but I do respect your right to view things that way. Different perspectives are one of the things the founders of this nation wanted to protect.

I'm not sure how we can even debate this. I base much of my opinions on talking to actual Muslims, most of whom I have been friends with (and in one case a relative.) Obviously, religious extremists aren't going to hang out with an atheist most of the time, so the fact that I have friends that are Muslim should attest to something. As far as people from the middle east being more extreme, my Muslim friends have been from Pakistan, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Egypt, India, Iran, and Palestine. I've never been close with one of those Nation of Islam folks, and all the Muslims I have known are immigrants. I do feel that it is more valid to get the information based on actually talking to Muslims than it is to base your opinions off of what you read on the news. I'm also not defending the religion as I do not support any religion. However, I don't like to see people demonized because of their religion nor do I like when people take one group and use it to try to make others look bad. You can't base all Muslims off of your knowledge of al Qaeda any more than you can base your opinions of all Christians off of Christian terrorist groups like the Army of God. I do not believe in religions, but I do believe in people. There are good people of pretty much every faith, including Muslims and including people in TWI. I will continue to defend those people, even though I see the whole debate as fruitless when I have to discuss it with people that get everything they know from cable news and biased sites on the internet.

I also remember hearing this. Maybe it was from one of LCM's SNS tapes close to the end of his tenure? Either that, or perhaps from his version of the Advanced Class.

It looks like we didn't get hit with anything here in Houston, but it sounds bad further East. That's pretty bad considering that Beaumont and the other areas there were also hit by Hurricane Rita two years ago and the cleanup work was still not complete. Thanks George. I will check it out, although I'm supposed to be going to a wedding that weekend. I haven't gotten an invitation yet and my uncle hasn't responded to my emails, so I might just ditch it. In which case, I'll let you all know.

I have Muslim friends who have either left and returned, or left altogether. They didn't face any problems, with the only potential being their parents getting upset. Still, the majority of Islam seems to be quite a bit more tolerant than TWI when it comes to a "mark and avoid" process. Additionally, this politician has spoken out very vocally against Islam, which of course has triggered some nutcases to attack him. I'd imagine a U.S. Congressman saying, "Jesus was a criminal" on TV would get quite a few death threats from radical Christian extremists too, and probably have his house bombed. Extremists are always wrong, no matter what the religion.

This morning before going to work the weatherman said we just had a low that maybe becomes a small tropical depression, if anything. By lunch we had a named storm. Fortunately we live to the west of Houston, so we should get a little rain at the most. I feel bad for those further east who are likely to get hit hard from this. Up to 15 inches of rain is expected, and earlier I saw something really weird on the computer models. Although they're probably wrong, it's possible that Humberto loops back around through Mississippi and re-enters the gulf, possibly hitting us in Texas again.

From what I have read, September 11th wasn't the original date they had planned upon, which was actually supposed to take place during the summer. Additionally, it seems like September 11th was a significant day for Palestinians, but I forget what for. Since the majority of Americans aren't aware of the theoretical 9/11 birthday of Jesus, I doubt al Qaeda would have picked that day to anger our nation. Some days with greater significance to more people would have been July 4th or Christmas.

What do I want in a woman? My %*#@, mostly. My tongue and fingers sometimes too. Oh, that's not what you meant in your question? Ok, well I like my wife quite a bit. She is better for my needs than other women, so I would have to say that I like what she has. She's beautiful, she has a calm, happy and caring personality, and she is very intelligent. It's pretty basic stuff but really hard to find. Most of the women I've known are nutcases. I don't know if this is as a result of something I've done or just their natural state, but it isn't pleasant to be with a crazy person. When I met my wife, she was refreshing to me because she was a sane person. That made a huge difference to me.

Thanks RainbowsGirl. I was curious because much of what we were taught in TWI did turn out to be nonsense, and this was hailed as one of the more "scientific" of TWI's research. Still, it looks like you agree that there isn't a firm date for today, just that it was probably around this time period and that the actual date is not super-important to you. Thanks, MPM

Simple logic says that it can't. Have you ever tried to point at something far away to get someone else to look at it, and since they aren't looking through your eyes, they can't see it specifically? A similar situation would happen with stars. Light spreads out over space, so it's not like a star can shine like a spotlight on one specific house. In fact, the distance is so huge that the light could be shining on an entirely different solar system. One thing I found interesting was that TWI never really went into the whole "Saturnalia" thing. I think it would shock a lot of people to learn about the born of a virgin half-god Mithras that Christmas actually represents. The Christmas holiday, the stories, and much of what we believe about Jesus is pretty much directly lifted from the Mithras myth. If I were a Christian, I'd want to learn about that myth and then go back and read about Jesus directly from the bible in order to filter out the perceptions our culture has picked up from the ancient Roman and pagan religions.

That would not be much different than it is now. The only real difference might be that Australians get to celebrate Christmas in a time other than Summer.

I dunno...being socked in the pants sounds like a very painful event. I can't speak for everyone (because there might be some BDSM folks here), but I would not be smiling.

Is there any evidence outside of TWI propaganda that it could have been today? I mean, there's not a historical agreement on whether actually Jesus existed or not, making it impossible to tell for sure what day he was born if he did exist, but I'm wondering if there are any points of evidence that would lead to a 9/11 birthday that aren't just TWI nonsense. Didn't VPW rip off the idea from someone else?

Belle, The Bush Man was one of the sights I wanted you to see, but I didn't want to tell you specifically and ruin the fun. I'm glad you had a good time.

It could also be that you are most used to TWI, and have been seeking out somewhere like it. It sometimes is like how a woman that is married to a man that hits her for 15 years ends up leaving him -- only to find a new guy to hit her. I'm not saying this is the case with you, but I would definitely consider it and decide if what you are looking for is what is actually the best for your life, or if you are seeking out something to make you comfortable. Having HFCs and Corps make minute decisions for you in your life is easy, and for some comforting. However, it's not what is best for your life. Think about what values or properties that you are looking for, and decide if they are good for you or not and go from there. There probably are home fellowship groups out there that are good, but if you're going into another TWI then you have a problem.

To add to this, a trick that people with weaker stomachs use to not get sick while traveling is to eat yogurt. If you can buy locally made yogurt it is better because it helps you build up your stomach against local strains of bacteria and such. I've never tried it, but friends who have traveled a lot swear by it. I generally don't get sick to my stomach when I travel to other countries, so I haven't had to try it. As far as not drinking the water, drink bottled water. It's safe, and most hotels filter their water and it should be ok too if they specify that it's potable. Still, it's best for most people to stick with bottled water, and to NOT use ice, since it generally comes from unfiltered water. I'm not sure why you advise against beef, but I haven't been to the East coast of Mexico. It's great in the northwestern states, where carne asada is usually made with sirloin instead of that fajita crap they use here in Texas. Still, if you're going to the beach, you should eat seafood. I highly suggest finding a good place for ceviche. It's my favorite beach food. Basically it's fish/shrimp/octopus/whatever mixed with lime juice and some other ingredients similar to pico de gallo. You put it on crackers or totopes (corn chips) and put some hot sauce on it. It's delicious, and goes great with beer. As far as tequila is concerned, don't drink Cuervo and if it has a worm in it, it is not tequila. In fact, the worm in the bottle thing seems to be an American invention, so I wouldn't be surprised if those drinks are imported from the U.S. Some good widely available tequilas are Don Julio, Patron, and Cazadores. If you want to buy any souvenirs, you're going to be ripped off doing it in the tourist areas. If you plan to buy a lot you should ask a taxi driver where to get them cheap. Generally a block or two away from the malecon (the main strip by the beach) you can find the same items available for much cheaper. Sometimes they're willing to work with you on the price or throw in something else for free. Do beware of asking for restaurant advice from taxi drivers though. A lot of bad restaurants have deals with them to pay a commission for every customer that the taxi driver drops off. This results in p.o.'d tourists eating fish sticks from the frozen section at Walmart at high prices. If you eat at a place that is mostly full of tourists, the food will probably not be authentic.

I have to second these two things in particular too. Also I think Dot mentioned Sears for getting pancakes. They are good, but I don't find them to be that unusual. There are probably 30 better places to get pancakes here in Houston and in most cities. I don't get why it's so popular given how long the lines are just to get breakfast.

I would suggest a day trip to Nappa, Sonoma, or somewhere similar. I forgot what all wineries we went to but a good, informative one (if you care) is Mondavi. However, you can't beat the view from the Sterling winery. You also have to visit some smaller ones though as they are more fun and you get a better experience. As far as San Francisco itself, there is too much to do. Do the cheesy tourist thing and check out Fisherman's Wharf and take the $10/hr boat tour under the Golden Gate bridge and around Alcatraz. I don't know that Alcatraz is worth visiting itself, though. There's also Chinatown, which is an interesting place, as well as Haight-Ashbury. Oh, and if you are taken to this Asian restaurant with "showgirls" don't do it. It's a trap. Those are all transvestites.

I got married in Las Vegas. The thing is, my wife's family are Catholics from Mexico and would have wanted a Catholic wedding. My family is a mix of religions, but most importantly my parents are in TWI and I was already out, so I wanted somewhere that would not be TWI or Catholic, plus would not be where any family lived to make it seem like we didn't prefer one side over the other. Additionally, since everyone would have to travel, we wanted a place where there would be stuff to do before and after the wedding-related things. It turned out to be a great decision. A lot of people think of cheesy weddings with Elvis and all that, but the reality is that in Las Vegas you can get any kind of wedding, just be prepared to pay for it. The place is really one big ripoff, but they've combined so many things to take your money together that it sort of counteracted itself. If you're not weak-willed, you can easily go without spending too much money, and still have a great time. We gambled very little, and came back with a bucket of $25 in quarters (we lived in an apartment with washing machines you have to pay to use, so I didn't cash them in.) I'd like to go back some time, although there are many other places we need to go first.

Race was considered a scientific reality a long time ago, but it isn't anymore. The old classifications are bogus. I found this article to be good.