Mister P-Mosh

Agreed. Since they are so cheap though, I picked up the whole series and read them over the span of a few years mixed in with other things, so the repetition didn't bother me too much. Definitely, but I think that could result in an entirely new topic. The Jehovah of the old testament is right up there with the Greek gods.

Ok, I've probably stayed in hotels more than most people and have learned to look out for this and other things. In addition to the plastic cups, I always check for a few things. The first is that I move the furniture, especially that around the bed as well as the bed itself. I look to see how dirty things are, and look very closely for bed bugs. I had a really bad incident with an Extended Stay America hotel with bed bugs and had to get medical attention because of all the thousands of bites on my body after sleeping there. If it's fairly clean (there is always dust, but I've found food, condoms, etc. at times) then that test is passed. I also check the bed sheets. They should be clean, and usually you can tell by smell and sight. Another sign of bed bugs is black or grey stains on the bed sheets, but that could also be due to cigarette ashes. I also check the pillows, because it is possible that a place changed the sheets but left the pillows. Again, sight and smell are usually a good enough check. Something else to keep in mind is that the floor is going to be nasty, even if it looks clean. You should always have your feet covered when you are walking in a hotel room. Slippers, flip flops/thongs, or at minimum socks should be worn. It also helps to check the heat and AC, because that has been broken in about 10% of the hotels I've stayed in. This is especially important if you are staying somewhere with a radically different climate than you are used to. I've also found things left over from other guests at hotels. Probably the most interesting was what appeared to be heroin at a high end hotel here in Houston. As far as the primary topic of the cleanliness of the glasses and water is concerned, I suggest not drinking tap water anyway. When you travel, you should only drink bottled water, even if it is to another region of the U.S. Lots of people get sick because the water in one city has different microorganisms and chemicals than the water in their city. Bottled water, even if it is originally tap water, is usually purified in some way, so it's a safe bet. Another travel tip that I don't follow is to eat local yogurt if you travel overseas anywhere. This tip was passed on to me by an Indian friend who said that is how people travel to India and avoid getting sick. It seems to work according to those that I've talked to and eat yogurt. When it comes to the quality of hotels money does make a difference. While high-end hotels might have toilet water on their glass cups just like the low-end hotels, there are certain things that the extra money can provide. For example, if you're staying at a $200/night hotel, you'll likely be staying in a room frequented by other people that can afford it. If you stay in Motel 6, you're likely to stay in a room that has been used by hookers, drug addicts, and other people who might not be as clean. Additionally, a $200/night hotel can afford to change the sheets every day. At somewhere like Motel 6 they have to cut costs. If there is a problem, you will have a lot more leverage if you're paying $200/night than you would if you're at a cheap place. The response I got for my TV remote not working at a Sheraton Ambassador was a whole lot better response than I got from a hotel where a used condom was on the floor behind the nightstand. Anyway, don't let all of this prevent you from traveling, just be safe and aware of what to look for.

I liked that series quite a bit but it seems a bit juvenile now for some reason. It's like the attitudes of the deities are going through the emotional problems of teenagers. By the way, have you read all of the books? This includes the last two, where the devil and the Christian god are replaced.

If I found that I was getting this much trash left on my door, I would stay home from work one day to wait for the person to bring it, then beat the sh!t out of them. I am sick and tired of these jackasses leaving their trash on my door. If I want their services, I will come and ask them for it. If I sound bitter, it's because I hate people that fill up my mailbox with trash and those that leave trash on my door even more because it all falls and makes a mess when I open the door. Also, I'm bitter because it's just after 4am and my daughter has been up all night screaming, and there's nothing I can do for her since it appears she is teething. Maybe I should call up those numbers of the businesses inconsiderate enough to trash up my front door and record long VMs of her screaming.

I think it is paranoiac and self-destructive to worry about such things. I have family in Belfast, one of whom has had an IED blow up and put him in a wheelchair. My family members there don't worry about being blown up, despite the fact that people do get blown up over there a lot more than Americans do here. You should not worry, or be "vigilant" as the self-deluded like to call it. Live your life as if you could die at any moment, because you really could die. A blood clot could take you out at any moment, getting into your car to drive is infinitely more dangerous than terrorists with IEDs. There are simply better things to be concerned about. Oh, and for the record, IEDs are set off in the U.S. occasionally by Christian extremists like those that want to kill doctors that perform abortions. It's nothing new here either, but I don't worry about it in any case. I have to live my life instead of being afraid.

I wish I could have attended, but I was out of the country for a while. I just got back from Vancouver this weekend so I couldn't go. It's great to see you all had fun though.

Suda, you have amazed me. Not only are you getting it, you're understanding it well and you are able to respect those of us that differ from you. Thanks for trying to understand even though you have come to a different conclusion in your life.

That relationship was often slavery. The most obvious example I can think of is how Exodus 21 basically lays out the rules for slavery according to the bible. Are you on drugs? Seriously, I never said anything that you're talking about, and you are contradicting yourself multiple times. First you say atheists are always against war and consider it murder, then you expect atheists to call people to war, then you talk about sharks. The only thing the sharks are doing is being jumped over by you. Atheism has nothing to do with war. Atheism is an absence of belief in gods. What you're talking about doesn't have anything to do with anything else I was talking about so I won't respond to nonsense. So you are saying that Numbers 31:17 is false? It's a verse that states, "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him." Somehow I don't think that they "killed" them by evangelism. Did they use biblical humor and they said, "STOP! HAHAHA! THAT'S TOO FUNNY, YOU'RE KILLING ME!" Does that term originate from biblical times? Again with your apparent halucinatory rants that don't make sense or fit in with what I wrote. I really don't know how to respond because what you're saying is just gibberish. Only if you believe it to be true. However, if you can't be held accountable to yourself, then you have some major issues. Part of being an adult is being responsible for your own actions. If your belief is that you have to be afraid of going to hell in order to be responsible, then you have some problems. Then if you're such a biblical scholar, why don't you "educate" me. I don't remember anything about that, and if it's as accurate as the rest of your biblical knowledge then I won't count on it. I'm not sure what homosexuality has to do with anything here. If you watch the news lately, all the famous people turning out to be gay are the staunch Christian conservatives. The percentage of gay atheists is probably similar to the percentage of gay Christians. Also, as an atheist I don't say anything about evolution pulling any carts and have no idea what you're talking about. As far as empathy and ignorance, you and johnj are still wrapped up in your TWI brainwashing and are unable to see reality and understand other people. That's why both of you go off on delusional rants and talk at people rather than with them. Both of you have a "holier than thou" attitude and offer nothing but insults, lies, and strawman arguments that make no sense. You both think you're better than everyone else and that you know more than everyone else and that egotism is something I despise in people. Evolution and atheism have nothing to do with each other. You might as well be comparing the horses and the 839th digit of Pi. You don't know what you're talking about and don't make sense. Atheism is simply an absence of belief in gods. It's not science, evolution, or a conspiracy against you. As far as being concerned with biblical values, only people like you who are always out to attack non-Christians get attacked back. If you come here acting like an @$$ people will act like one back to you. Read the comments prior to you and johnj's posts. Things were pretty calm and people were sharing ideas rather than crapping all over everything and stirring arguments. Who are you to tell me what I believe? I've stated over and over what atheism is, yet you reject that and continue to build lies in order to tear people like me down. You are free to believe what you wish, but you will always be wrong and I hope someone will always be there to contradict you, lest you be able to trick innocent people into hatred with your lies.

I don't know whether you are being arrogant or ignorant. Either way, you are seriously far from the truth with your posts, this one is no exception. If you study history, you would see that even in the most religious of societies, even past Christian societies, there were things occurring that many if not all of us would find immoral. You mentioned slavery, which is sanctioned by Christianity depending on what part of the bible you read. In the old testament, Jehovah supposedly told the Israelites to go murder innocent men, women, and children. Today it would be considered immoral to kill people that pose no threat to you, but back then there were supposedly commandments from god to kill every living thing in a city that the Israelites would go to war with. Doesn't this violate pretty much any interpretation of "thou shalt not kill?" Additionally, most non-Christian religions have the same set of morals as Christianity. Most atheists also live by the same morals. There are core values that are inherent in humanity. Things like "thou shalt not kill" are just written versions of what every single person already knows. Nonsense. Human nature includes empathy, and empathy is what prevents people from hurting others. This is a natural trait in human beings and many animals. Your dog doesn't need "jesus" in order to start crying when they hear another dog cry. It's a natural instinct. However, there are people who are either born with a mental illness that robs them of empathy or go through harsh experiences that cause their mind to become damaged and restrict their empathy. Atheism provides GREATER accountability than Christianity does. As an atheist, I have no fall back, I am responsible for all of my actions and must face the consequences as a result. Also, since this is the only life I have, as well as the only life that the people I interact with have, it is more important for me to help others. For example, it is my duty to society to help those that are in need because if there is no heaven, they have to be helped immediately so they can be ok in this life. This is a lie. Being good is the default, while being bad comes from ignorance, mental illness, or suffering. Thieves find it to be quicker to steal because they don't see a legitimate way to make money, and they often live in poverty or have a problem that causes them to steal. It is not natural for people just to steal and not feel guilt about it. Many divorces of non-religious people happen because a woman is abused or treated badly. In a strict Christian household, the woman would continue putting up with the abuse because she is supposedly a subject to her husband and inferior somehow. Divorce rates are a symptom of bigger problems, and we should address those problems rather than focusing on the end result. It's very offensive that you conflate atheism and amorality. It is a sign of your ignorance and lack of empathy for your fellow human beings. In your examples, you also show your lack of thought concerning other aspects of life. The IRS does reward you for paying taxes -- the money goes to build freeways, maintain national parks, maintain the military to defend us, etc. Just because you expect them to personally thank you doesn't mean that you don't benefit. I think your analysis is nonsense, but since you didn't provide a link to the article the rest of us have nothing to base our opinions of it on. So in your mind, we atheists have to ignore the fact that "sinners" don't live up to what you believe the standards are, despite the fact that according to the bible we are all guilty of "sin." So a translation of what you are saying is that we should ignore all the evil that the followers of Christianity have done because it supposedly doesn't reflect on Christianity itself, right? You don't want us to judge Christianity based on it's "fruit", yet you judge everything else based on even stricter criteria. A big problem with your views is that you seem to believe atheism is a belief system. It is not. It is not amoral, it is not a lack of values. It is simply and only the fact that we don't believe in gods. You can't honestly extrapolate anything further out of that. Atheism is not the polar opposite of Christianity. Christians and Satanists are the polar opposites competing against each other (if real satanists even exist is debatable), where atheists are not even in the game you all are. Don't try to demonize us based on your own ignorance and prejudice because it's clear you don't know us.

I'm glad you also see things this way. However, I would clarify something. Most people are able to go through life doing the right thing by default most of the time. For example, you mentioned buying groceries as having no moral ramifications. I would say that for some people with mental problems, the fact that you are buying rather than stealing is a choice of morality. While normal people like us may not think about these two options, there are some people for whom it is a problem, and they need a moral code dictated to them in order to keep functioning in society. I don't see any indication that the U.S. has "Christian based morals", but instead morals based on natural order and philosophical principals from many different societies. Much of our government is based on the ancient Greeks, and they worshiped Zeus and Athena.

On the other hand, studies have shown that students of a religious nature who make "chastity vows" are just as likely as other students to engage in premarital sex, and they are more likely to engage in risky sexual activities such as sex without a condom, anal sex, etc. Does this mean that Christianity fails, since Christian students are more likely to try anal sex than non-religious students? It's not hard to deny. While we humans are not perfect, I have a hard time believing that my infant daughter is a "sinner" since she is not capable of being responsible for her own actions yet. You have to choose to do wrong to be a "sinner", at least in my atheist view of things. As far as the rest, you are the one saying that biblical morality is good and that people should follow it. What us non-religious folks think is that it's hypocrisy for them to demand we follow their morals while they don't practice what they preach. From what I've seen, you have been the one who brought the inflammatory writings to this thread. You come here and make false statements about atheists and non-Christians, and let your ego get in the way of seeing anything but your version of Christianity as being ok.

That's odd, there have been plenty of scientists that are religious or superstitious at a minimum. I have a friend that has done work for NASA and is a strong Christian. He sees no contradiction in the two.

Keep your concern to yourself then, because you are as qualified to talk about this as I am qualified to talk about the effectiveness of ancient Egyptian brain surgery, or maybe less so. This simply isn't true. I know people raised by atheists and remained atheist, and they grow up to be normal, well adjusted adults. In fact, they often don't have the baggage and problems that people that grow up in strict Christian households do. You're "they usually don't" claim is purely fictitious. What do you base it on? What your preacher tells you to think? This is a flat out lie. As was said in the treaty of Tripoli, "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" and it has always been that way. Some of those "American values" you mentioned of the 1950's need to go away. I'm sure that black people will be a lot better off in 2050 than they were in 1950, for example. The poor are looked down upon and not cared for well here either. Don't you think our welfare system sucks? Christianity is not the only religion that advocates taking care of each other. The very basis of society is that principle. Even animals have packs, flocks, and other groupings that help them take care of each other, and animals are certainly not Christian. You view the world through Jesus colored glasses, and are unable to see the bigger picture. You give Christianity credit for things that are common sense and natural, yet you say those same things are somehow bad.

I'm not aware of atheism ever dominating a society in modern times (communism doesn't count because it uses religious ideas as a base of government worship). So you support freedom for some but slavery for most? You're presenting a false situation. If religion is man-made, that means that morals are man-made as well. Things like stealing not being morally acceptable are based on common sense and should not need a "lord" to enslave you and tell you right from wrong. If you can't tell right from wrong on a basic level you have a mental illness. Most people, Christian or not, know that it is wrong to steal. Alternatively, letting society define the rules rather than being under religious tyranny results in things like Democracy and Representative Republics. You can't just pick and choose the worst. Governments come from societies creating order, sometimes they're good, sometimes they're bad. This is a pure strawman. I'm not dissapointed with life after becoming an atheist. I'm pretty happy and live much more comfortably than I did as a Christian. You just make this stuff up to make yourself feel better about your choice. You don't know what I need, and somehow I doubt you've looked into any religions other than Christianity for anything. That is your choice, but you don't need to act so egotistical and high and mighty in rejecting other people's choices. Don't state your opinions as fact and tell us that everyone needs to think like you do.

I never saw the MSNBC interview, and maybe he claimed to be an atheist at the time (and only Christian fundamentalists use terms like "evolutionist", so if he did say that he did so as a Christian) but the fact is that he was raised in a strict Christian family and I read that he was baptized in prison by a Church of Christ pastor as well. Of course, religious or not, what Jeffrey Dahmer had in common with us was the fact that he was a human being. He showed the great evil that any person is capable of in the absence of mental stability. This problem is not limited to people with or without religion, so I agree that it doesn't make any difference. Christians, Muslims, Jews, atheists, etc. are all capable of murder and I don't see religion stopping evil people from doing evil things.

It's clear you don't understand the term "agnostic", which basically means the "clean slate" you are talking about. Atheism is what you are more against and consider a belief system, although there are different types of atheists. Atheists like me and apparently George simply stopped worrying about the whole "god" thing and moved on with our lives. I see no evidence that a god exists, so I don't believe in it. It's not that I have "proof" there is no god, there's just no proof that there is one either, so why should I believe in it? It's not a "belief system", because there is nothing to believe in. It's literally the absence of belief.

As you've already seen, it was George H. W. Bush, which is usually in reference of the elder rather than George W. Bush who is the younger. Also, it took place before he was president. I also was not indicating that all Christians are intolerant or dominionists. I just wanted to show how extreme of a bias against atheism exists in this nation, and how even though not everyone feels as extreme about it as Bush Sr., the majority of people would not be offended by him making such a statement, which is part of the problem. Also, Jeffrey Dahmer was a member of the Church of Christ. He was not an atheist, and it's been theorized that his religious hatred for homosexuals enabled him to murder gay people and hate himself for being homosexual. Of course, I don't believe Jeffrey Dahmer to be a typical Christian, either.

I see no reason to believe that religion will be gone anytime soon, unless you think humans will all die off soon. As far as the rest, I feel that you're building up a strawman of what I believe (or more accurately, don't believe) because you have a preconceived notion about what atheism is, and expect everything to fit within that narrow definition. You're trying to get me to agree with you when I clearly don't, and I don't see any benefit to either of us in continuing this.

It's a vocal minority of people who are out to change our nation and force us to essentially be a Christian version of the Taliban. You're lucky that you don't have to deal with these people at all, but as an atheist whenever a Christian finds out, I am usually treated differently. I have pretty much stopped discussing religion altogether with most people as a result. However, that doesn't stop these groups like the Army of God of trying to take over our country, or the less evil but still doing harm to our nation folks like Pat Robertson that are trying to push their religion into our laws. Think about it -- why don't we allow federal funding of stem cell research? What reason could we possibly have not to allow it when the federal government funds all kinds of medical research, and should be funding one that holds a lot of promise like this one? It's difficult to understand what it's like to be a non-Christian in this country if you're a Christian because these loudmouths have convinced so many people that this nation was founded upon Christianity when it clearly was not. However, if it would help you see things from my way, look at the statement George H. W. Bush made concerning atheists: George H. W. Bush does not consider me a citizen despite the fact that I was born here and care about my nation. George H. W. Bush does not consider Pat Tillman, who heroically abandoned the NFL to go fight against the Taliban in Afghanistan after 9/11 and lost his life, a citizen or a patriot. This type of hostility is typical. If you're an atheist and people at your job know, they will intentionally sabotage things and try to get you fired or be mean to you in order to try to get you to quit. If you require the belief that someone is watching over you and will punish you for bad behavior in order to be a good person, then you have some pretty major psychological problems. Morals, love, and loyalty are natural instincts and feelings. I hear statements like yours all the time and hope that people don't really believe that to be the case, but it seems like a very strange idea. In either case, the reason you should think otherwise is because it's common sense to expect human beings to have human feelings and emotions, especially if you see things as I do. In my view, religion was invented by humans in order to help explain social structures, morals, feelings, etc. not the other way around.

We have nothing to base any ideas of the future of love on scientifically. I think it will exist as long as life exists, but who knows really? There's no way to know. The problem is that religious people tie together the concept of "good" with religion. In reality, morals exist within the human mind and society, religion is just a way of organizing the personal and social values into a unified group. Right, but that obviously doesn't apply to humans. You could be right, but that's like saying, "If humans could reproduce and evolve away from the process of breathing, we might no longer breathe." As far as atheism being anti-theism, we are to a degree but only because theists push their views on us. There is little more annoying than some religious jerk coming up to you and telling you that you're going to hell because you don't believe in Jesus, or that you're a good person, so surely Jesus will show himself to you and you'll suddenly "learn", or any of the other holier than thou attitudes we face on a regular basis. However, we are more than just anti-theists. It's not a matter of being a Christian or anti-Christian. In mathematical terms, we aren't 1 or -1, we're 0. We simply have no belief. There's no strict moral code, no set of beliefs, or any unifying thing other than the absence of a belief in gods.

I haven't seen it. Believe it or not, I think Dawkins can be a bit obnoxious so I'm not his biggest fan even if we do agree on certain things. Love is what it is. There is plenty of evidence of it that pretty much everyone experiences and shares. Atheists are not Vulcans from Star Trek. Emotions are real, observable, and experiencable. Perhaps. I haven't thought too much about it really. Emotions do seem to have some evolutionary traits and help us survive. However, since I don't follow your belief that "the universe was made because God wanted someone to love", I don't have to justify everything with that premise. Of course, that begs the question of why this supposedly perfect "god" would be lacking so much that he would have to create us to fulfill that. I see no reason for that to happen. I seriously doubt that humans will survive long enough to risk evolving to that degree anyway. Besides, the conditions that make love possible still exist, unlike the sleeping in trees thing. As an atheist, my view is that love is love. It has no need for the supernatural to exist. The two are apples and oranges to me. You need religion to feel love as much as you need unicorns to eat pancakes.

It's related to explaining what you're talking about, but research is being done on the brain where scientists are triggering "religious experiences." I suggest reading this Wired article for an easy (e.g. non-scientific) article about it. This does not do anything to explain the existence/lack of existence of any supernatural though. To the atheist, it will look like "proof" that religion is purely psychological, while to the "believer" it will seem to be proof that God put something in our brains to connect with him. In either case though, it is an interesting look into the mechanics of the human mind.

That depends on your definition of being "politically involved." If it is to strengthen the country and do good, then people should be involved. If the goal is to subvert the principles the country was founded upon (freedom, not religion) in order to force people to follow your religion, then I'm against it.

Dot, Some of these questions are what led me to become an atheist. There are plenty of others, but yours are some common ones that are unanswerable in any real sense. Still, I'll give the answers I can come up with just to help you see things from another perspective. As others have mentioned, theoretically "God" would have to exist outside of time. In fact, all of our existence is based upon the dimensions we know, and there is no observable supernatural activity taking place within any of the known dimensions. For any gods to exist within the framework of time, they would also be observable in the first three dimensions too. Not only that, but if he knew Lucifer was going to blow it, and still created him, does that mean that "God" and not Lucifer is truly responsible for all the evil in the world? If I build a time bomb and it explodes, as the creator it is my fault, not the bomb's fault. Tying back in with the last question, "God" would have had to create sickness and death as no other beings have the power of creation according to Christianity. Additionally, since there are many imperfections in the universe, including sickness and death, it would be strange for a perfect being to create that much imperfection. Or if he truly were all-knowing, all-powerful, and living outside of time, why didn't he just get it right the first time with Adam and Eve? One of the biggest questions that can't be answered that ties in to all of your questions is, if any gods exist, why would they create so many problems? If I were omnipresent and omniscient, I wouldn't allow my "children" to suffer. What kind of sick "God" allows children to be born with horrible diseases that will cause them to suffer in extreme pain and die within months or years of their birth? What kind of "God" allows people to be blown up by suicide bombers but survive, being mangled for life? What kind of a "God" makes people die, causing their loved ones to suffer? There are no clear answers and you won't get them from anyone. You have to decide what you want to believe. For me, the path was simply to admit that I see no reason to believe in gods. For you, perhaps you have answers to these questions that satisfy you and you continue believing. It's really all up to you.

I hate to drag this too far off topic, but FOTF are an extremist group and do support dominionist policies. They are in favor of forcing children to pray at school, they are trying to rewrite history to make people think the U.S. was founded upon Christianity, and they strongly influence the Republican party and are heavily involved with politics. Why would they be involved with politics and have those views that I mentioned if they were not dominionists?