krys

CM - I understand where you're coming from now, and I'm sorry I was sarcastic. We are not all talking about the same thing here. There is Penta Water. A brand of distilled water which has been super oxygenated (of dubious value to some) BUT the water itself has been "stabilized" into a form which had been trademarked by that company (I don't think trademarks can be issued to snake oil) and this particular water configuration fits into cell pores which exactly accommodate it. That's what the 5 water cluster is all about and the discovery of these pores in cells won it's discoverers a Nobel prize. Then - there’s David Anderson's water...which is distilled and super oxygenated....but not into the specialized 5 molecule cluster. We have people confusing one with the other, and while it might be trite to some, I don't think it's trite at all. Penta Water IS NOT THE SAME THING as David's water. He stated so. He brought up the brand as an encouragement to have us try some without coming to him or building the apparatus so we could see any benefit. David has given this water that he made himself to many folks for either no money, or just the cost of a new clean bottle. He is not trying to sell snake oil. Now - - - - - - - - Not too very long ago there was a forum war here. It was started by another brand of "religion" and it caused a lot of ill will and hard feelings all around. It drove some posters, indeed some valuable posters away. Either they are in lurk mode, or they've left the site forever never to return because of that hurt. .... ..... Months pass. And one David Anderson, whom none of us know and he leaves an interesting post about oxygenated water. There is brief discussion and then he and I had a minor misunderstanding about massage therapy. When we realized it, we straightened it out and I began to add what I know of biology to the mix. There was more discussion and David began describing how to construct the apparatus using oxygen from Welding Supplies because Oxygen requires a prescription from a medical doctor. THEN someone, I don’t remember the poster…and I ain’t gonna go back and look now….mentioned the real possibility of danger using Welding grade oxygen and possible contamination. Now that was a valid reason to make a strong statement to get everybody’s attention so nobody would be harmed. At this point, after doing some research and calling one local welding supplier, I seriously doubt that there are any harmful products in welder’s grade oxygen, but never-the-less, it was a wise move to post the warning. There is another potentially very harmful possibility if folks just decide to consume quantities of this home-made oxygenated stuff or the Penta or other brands. That is…if you’re feeling low on energy and you think this will fix you. Maybe you should check with your Dr. before diagnosing yourself and missing an opportunity for proper and timely diagnosis. Now let’s get back to the first 3 – 5 pages of this thread. Am I the only one in whose head a bell went off signaling “Troll” when this first became a popular thread? I admit, I thought about it, but decided to wait and see…..I think lots of others may have considered the same thing and that’s why some of the really harsh comments were made on this thread - - made by lots of folks…and I’m not accusing…just stating. I’m sorry this is getting long, but I’m coming to the end soon - - promise! Then along come the science buffs who demand that David PROVE his stuff works! They want double blind and all other kinds of scientific stuff which he cannot do - - nope - - not even if he had several million to invest in it. In order to do such a study and have it recognized by somebody as being valid…he needs connections to those who know how to set these trials up (there was a study done….on superb athletes…they were given 500ml of Penta Water!...and it was done one time Cut me some slack! 16 oz of no beverage I know of will produce any significant change in an athlete’s performance .) He would require sophisticated apparatus, willing athletes, temperature, pressure and humidity controlled environments, and serious statistical analyses. No “average person type” is going to be able to secure these resources….you need to have some recognition somewhere in order to attract attention from independent testing labs . So you see, he can’t prove it…not because it doesn’t work…but because what it takes to prove it - - he doesn’t have! I asked about chiropractics, reflexology, acupuncture and the other non-FDA approved approaches because many people use them – some with great relief from symptoms, and none of them have ever been tested scenically. They work because they work - - and they don’t all work on all people. The only evidence anyone has about these is the same anecdotal evidence that some of us have made about either Penta Water or highly oxygenated water. Nobody that I know of has ever considered that these work because of a placebo effect, so I wonder if the Penta Water falls in the same category as those? Either way – I doesn’t seem right that those who are thinking about trying this, or who already have, should be made to feel stupid, or inferior, or less than normal because they want to try it and I think that some of the discussions here on recent pares could point them in that direction. If there’s more to be said, maybe we could all be lots more kind in selecting our words and respect the fact that lots of people read this ‘cause it’s interesting and informative….and at least a few of us may learn something.

I'm finished constructing it. I will hang a long post up here shortly. I don't like this fighting. I respect your feelings George. I've been helped greatly by chripractors of 2 separate occaisions...but that doesn't mean everybody's ills will respond. Just read the coming post and think a while...maybe we can settle down and have some profit from all these pages!

To the nay-sayers, and those who believe Penta water is bunk: What do you think of accupuncture? or reflexology? or hypnotism (for pain control, weight control and smoking cessation) and other non traditional therapies such as holistic medicine and chiropractors?

Who is twisting your arm to read it? Did you really wade through 8 pages of posts and come to that conclusion?

I've seen my share of weird things in the sky. Especially in the pitch blackness of some of the camping I did in New Mexico. Some were different colors, some moved, some were stationary (thoe were the weirdest). I did chalk these up to some kinds of military things since we were close enough to White Sands and Los Alamose to make it possible. I guess some of you have figured out by now that I am a science buff....I watch TLC, the science channel, national geographic, pbs....anything like that because this planet and everything on it still fascinates me...even now. In recent times, they have discovered some living organisms along the sea floor right next to the vents creating new rock where the sea floor is expanding in the mid-Atlantic. These are not "life as we know it" based on oxygen and carbon...but instead based on sulfur. They withstand tremendous pressures being so deep...and also heat...boiling or thereabouts. It's not just one or two critters, but whole ecosystems. Since I've seen this and I'm satisfied that it's not fake stuff....I am forced to consider that since this is the most inhospitable place on our planet...and living things exist there, in fact thrive.....then is would be foolish to believe that this is the only planet in the universe which contains living beings, organisms, whatever you want to call them. To my mind, this does not make God any less wonderful - - but, in fact increases my awe. I hope you can make sanse out of my words because I don't know any other way to say it. Whether these things have spirit however, is a whole different animal.

My family shares a lot of pictures on CD's. My daughter is very talented when it comes to designing them. She's able to use all the fancy features of some of the higher end photo programs. She's commemorated several family events this way. Any time I get a CD from her I know I'm in for a treat, but the labels do look "tacky" compared to the data on them. What a great idea this would be to polish off an already wonderful gift!

I grew up with a boy who was born in Germany in one of the camps. His family were Jews but had plans to escape. His father decided not to circumcise him so that during their escape at least Pete would be spared. With this decision, his father made a vow with God, that if they got out...he would see that the child was raised to know his Jewish roots and heritage, but would grow up a practicing Christian. None of us ever knew anything about this (except Pete knew some of it) until we were sophomores in HS. That's when we were old enough to visit each other at home over longer distances and stay out at night. We planned gatherings and parties and we made out own fun. Pete was an extraordinary musician...he could really play Chopin's Minute Waltz in a minute (but it sounded rushed). During our senior year, Pete began learning more of his story and he shared it with us. So we kept asking so many questions, that his parents had us all over with the minister of our church and told the whole story. We were all horrified, but they did it in such a way tht we weren't afraid. They showed us the numbers tattood on their forearms and many stories. Pete wanted to convert to be with his family but his father wouldn't allow it until he was 21. At that time, he started studying, was Bar Mitzva's and circumcised. The last I heard he and his family practiced a combination of all the major holidays of both "religions"

It reminded me of all the times we've laughed at one another and had to clean up our monitors...figuratively. Here's the cat...doing it for us.

There was a time when I think I would have killed for words like that in the ad! But I wonder....maybe nothing is really so bad that she left him....unless it was the same thing 150 thousand times...and just this once she's not going to fall for it....again.

This is sort of a caption context, but you have to see it by clicking here and please be sure your speakers are on.

Bingo Pawtucket! Now why didn't I think of that!!!!! Now I have to day...."duh..."

I did it! Bought a new Dell 8400 series. I bought what I needed for the present and future anticipations. I selected minimum sound requirements because I have recently purchased a new Bose and I will play my CD's on that. I got a 17" flat pannel monitor so I've saved space in the desk area. I debated a while, but I did select an external 160 GB hard drive to make backup simpler. I'm tired of the cd clutter around here with all the backup I feel I need to do. I also got the memory key and a floppy drive. I understand that most computers now don't come with them, however, it is a cheap way to share info with trusted people when you don't want to send it over the net...for the $35 additional it seemed there was no reason not to include it. I've read much written here, and frequntly I see that somebody partitions their hard drive. What does this mean? should I do it? What's the best way to migrate my stuff to the new one when it comes. I don't want to cut any corners, but I also don't want this to take forever! Thanks! krys

IMHO they aren't more culpable just a bigger organization so more individuals were hurt. Both organizations are equally guilty of the same heinous crimes.

There are a few things which need addressing here. #1. I'm looking for something I can link to which which will give everybody a visual to explain what lymph is and how it moves through the body. I can't find something satisfactory yet, but I'm still looking....I'll post what I find when I find it. The current description is not adequate and is incorrect because it is only partly complete. #2. There are plenty of reasons why folks post here using psudonyms instead of real names. That is true of lots of forums. This particular forum folks from all over twi come and share their stuff. David alluded to the fact that I shared some stuff with him about my real name and he respected that. Sometimes many of us do that one on one with a few posters....but that is not the norm. Yes, I have a good reason for using a psudoname...but so does every body else who uses one. Zixar, Goey, oldiesman, excathedra...in fact anybody who uses one is just as valid as anyone who uses a real name. That is how it is on these GreaseSpot Cafe forums. We had many discussions about this over the years, and we have all agreed to honor and respect everyone's wishes regarding their posting name. It's not the same on other forums I belong to, but it is here. Everyone who uses a handle instead of a real name has the same value as someone who uses a name. Please don't use that as a posting "weapon" or "defense" again...it does not apply here.

no problem! enjoy your bible....I didn't realize we could get one at a place like Barnes and Noble. I don't get out much!!!

rats! I wondered what happened...I emailed you last evening and never heard a response...now I know. shucks.

We don't realize how far modern medicine has come in our lifetimes, especially in the area of infectious diseaeses. When I was 16 months old, I contracted scarlet fever. Sulfa drugs were just being used to fight certain infections and I did respond to it. Nevertheless...my house was quaranteened for it (6 weeks I think). Mine was the last house in the Borough of Queens to be quaranteened for scarlet fever.

My father wasn't going to give me any money for college (even if he had it) because he didn't think higher education was for girls. He was old school Scandanavian. So I worked my way through what I couldn't finance with government loans. (yes I paid mine off). I worked part time in a lab...but the simplest and most lucrative for the time spent was doing the men's laundry! It appears none of their mothers had taught them how to do it. I charged 50 cents/load...or $1.00 if they wanted it folded. I charged 50 cents/dress shirt to iron. (they supplied the soap and coins for the machines). I sat and studied while the machines did most of the work!

There is nothing wrong with your brain, excathie! Yours is trained differently from mine and most of the other scientific types. Don't ask me to do calculus or learn a language, though. There are plenty of things for our health and healing. Most of the time we would stay out of hot water if we followed better health rules and lifestyles. We always say, it will happen to the other guy - until one day you wake up and realize you ARE the other guy. I also wish your mother and her husband well.

There a lot of questions that need answering. The race horses in question were given only oxygenated water to drink. Human athletes were given a measured quantity one time. What would happen if the athletes were given oxygenated water only (as opposed to any other beverage) for a month and then tested? I don't know but mine is a better question than yours for this kind of test (I think) Carbon dioxide will not suffocate you...lack of oxygen will. It's not the lack of oxygen that causes you to breathe, but the quantity of carbon dioxide that does. Some people with very serious lung desease cannot pass carbon dioxide out well enough...they are called "retainers". They never suffocate but it is thought that at night when they are sleeping they may "forget" to breathe. These folks have a special apparatus for providing positive pressure at all times to make sure they don't stop breathing. Water is not an ideal means of delivering oxygen under normal conditions. Fish have gills to extract what little there is in there. Maybe there's 4 - 10% of oxygen dissolved in the water (depending on temperature) but there's 21% dissolved in air. I don't have all the answers. I'm looking for some IF they exist. It does help me, but I'm not "normal" (take that any way you like to....tee hee)so I'm out of the pail so to speak. Yes, I do know good and well that this should be properly tested. I don't have the funds to do so, though. I do believe that 500 ml (about 16 oz) given to 6 athletes 1 time does not constitute a valid test! I'm not taking any of these scientific reflexions personally. These are all questions to ask (plus a number of others I can think of).

I appreciate your warm words, Linda. These wings ain't goin' nowhere soon! It's not likely that there will be any published studies proving the benefit of oxygenated water. It's new...and those who have disproved it, in my opinion, have no validity because of the kinds of subjects they used. My breathing has been seriously compromised by the smoking I did + the many years of working with formaldehyde dissecting cats etc, + the other chemicals I used before everything in chemistry was done under a hood + being stuck in a pine forest fire when I lived in New Mexico. I had 2 rounds of pulmonary rehabilitation. The first time I was very strictly held to a limited quantity of supplemental oxygen while I exercised. After 12 weeks of this I had regained so much strength that I could hardly believe it. (I had become week due to poor breathing and excessive fatigue...it seems with muscles...use them or lose them) The second time I went to rehab was to restore what I lost after about 10 weeks of bed rest following the auto accident. This lab was run differently. They opened the supplemental oxygen as far as it would go and pushed me to the physical limit...every single day. After 12 weeks of this, I was in much much better physical shape than before the accident. When I exercise now...I use as much as I need to keep my stats where they belong. That is how I know that primed athletes won't do any better with supplemental oxygen from any source especially on a one shot trial. I wonder what would happen if you put prime athletes on unlimited supplemtal oxygen? I had not intended on revealing as much as I have because I consider it kind of personal, but now that it's out of the bag, so to speak...you may understand my interest in this. Water and alcohol are both absorbed directly from the stomach...they do not need to go through the gut to be absorbed into the blood stream. I have a pulse-oximeter (one of the finger pinch kind) which I use religiously when exercising to monitor my stats. I know that I can perform better on my treadmill after a bottle of Penta than if I didn't drink it. I chugged 2 in a row to see if the oximeter showed increased oxygen and it didn't. That means that no additional oxygen hopped on hemoglobin....but that does not mean it wasn't in the plasma. If it's in the plasma, it's fair game for cells to use. (They can't use it on the hemoglobin anyway). Yes, I am in tune with my body - I have to be. I wrote what I wrote of my personal experience because I felt some obligation to say something other than "I don't think it's placebo effect". There is something there...I just don't know for sure what it is. Also - I don't need any posting credentials. I know that. I wrote what I wrote out of deferance (sp) to David to does appear to know lots more than me...and perhaps more than other braniacs (used in fun, not to put down). I think we'd all lose some potential wealth if he left these forums.

I've spent considerable time reading and looking for resources. I've invested a lot trying to make what I've posted understandable to those who don't have any background in physiology. I'm ashamed of all that since the whole 6 pages of dialogue go up in a couple of bloated burps! I'd rather have the thread sink into oblivion and die a normal death. Somebody's urine can trun clear from drinking an abundance of water...it does not need bleaching. I'd rather leave with a posting credentials of 0 than those of -2. I read every posted link and went looking for others and read them too. I'm trying to figure out why I feel better and there's nothing to base it on...I'm not willing to toss it into the placebo box quite yet. You have no how idea how foolish I feel after all that. Stay or leave, as you wish, but don't pin what you do on a response to what I do! That would be stupider that stupid...besides, your opinions have been duly noted, and I don't really expect you to post on this thread again. But when people start flinging their posting credentials around, it's time for those who have none to bow out. ".....poof....."

I have a name too, but I can't post it in public. I've never written two paragraphs worthy of preserving. I think that makes my posting credentials = 0! Since that's the case, I shall not bother to do so again.

is not the same as:

I understand.