krys

Such happy news! Congratulations!

I also hope it was wonderful!

It's easy to attribute your experiences to the Chantix, but don't forget your body hasn't had nicotiene in a while, and some of what you're experiencing could be due to that alone if my experience counts for anything!

I would really love to sail one of those for a while. [sigh]

Happy Birthday Raf! I like pineapple pizza - and I like Raf too!

Can I change my screen name?

Some women, such as my DIL were just taught slowly and patiently. A little at a time. But you know the general "story"....all the women in the kingdom belong to the king.....the king has certain basic needs.....yadda yadda. That's how she was suckered in. "Of course you want to bless the MOG" don't you" Then, after the first or second time....loy got word to her (my DIL) that she was particularly adept at this calling. Pretty soon, she had a ministry don'tcha know. At that point nobody needs any more convincing.

This thread contains an historic story I related - - but that doesn't make it "my" thread. I'm glad for the input you all have had on it. I agree that a separate thread detailing the manipulations would be a good idea. I think it makes sense that the different "nasties" be separated so that they can judged on their own "merits"!

Rocky - I don't know if you'd call it closure. Many things have settled in my brain as the result of organizing my thoughts. Catharsis???? dunno about that. I don't care about that so much as I care about exposing them for what they were/are. If I've done that, I'm satisfied and I got my money's worth out of this website! This is what happened to us. Read what happened to many others.....conclusion - - draw your own, but if you aren't convinced about the screwd, lewd, mean spirits and whatever else was evil about the organization, then I'm going to have to work a whole lot harder!

The first 2 weeks after the kids returned home were relatively peaceful. I expected my son would take some time off - - he's was entitled IMHO. He had worked without benefit of vacation for almost 3 years and with all that happened so quickly that day, I would have been glad to float him and carry him for a month if necessary - - but he would have none of that. He manned the phone(s) for a couple of days, but on Monday he phoned his old boss. He became an excellent worker after he grew out of his middle teens. He was well skilled in his arena and willing to add to his skill set, he always had a pleasant manner about him, and he had grown to NOT become lazy. So - on Tuesday he had an interview and on Thursday morning reported for work. After that, every day he got up and went to work by day. When he came home he's man the phone(s) until bedtime. It payed off, though. I don't know how many he managed to get out of the organization...but I know most folks listened intently to his narrative. His wife, on the other hand, my beloved DIL, walked from room to room seemingly in circles. I wanted to grab her, physically wrap my arms around her and soothe her - but there was something about her demeanor that kept me at arms length. She kept the house looking good, shopped and cooked each night's meal, but wasn't able to do anything more than that. I wasn't expecting anything "more" in quantity certainly - for she had certainly been through the wringer too...but she was not able to do anything except that which she could do on autopilot. I tried showing her several times about the laundry machines....I know...a washer is a washer....and a dryer is a dryer...but we all know that they have their idiosyncracities and we can usually figure them out. She could not. She didn't even put it together that the washer's directions were written on the inside of the top lid! I don't want to put her down. I don't mean to make her look stupid or silly - - rather she was like one of those fish in the ocean that is stunned by a physical sound or some such other.......and they just hang there. She was truly shell-shocked I believe. You must understand that in no way am I attempting to put her down or take anything away from her. She was not the person I'd come to know - - and love. She was another personality altogether. Our son was still out son. He had grown up of course in the time since we’d seen him last, but he was still the same person - - not just more of a man. During the month of July, my son found an apartment, signed the lease and was ready to move in the beginning of August. My DIL did not go with him. Instead, she went to visit the “man on the bus” and lived with him for quite some time….I understand they were eventually married. I have no idea where they settled down to live. After those 2 weeks came the final insult! Their belongings from Gunnison were delivered. I told you that they had to rent a storage unit, and that mister liner drove the truck to our street right in front of our house and they led him to it. . As soon as possible after everything was brought to New Jersey, they collected the boxes and brought them to the house to look through them and sort. I wish you could have seen some of these cartons. The cardboard was weak and looked like it had been used and abused. Some of them weren’t even sealed, just closed over with that flap-inside-a-flap that we use sometimes when it’s only temporary storage. One of the boxes was very large – on the order of a large (for it’s time) TV perhaps. That one held all their heavy winter clothing. Nothing was folded. You know that when you put seasonal things away, you fold them wither you launder them or not….so that you can get more in the box and take care to cram the box as full as possible. None of these was taken care of in the slightest. Everything “winter” was crammed into this one box. Boots, coats, sweaters - - everything. Many things were missing. They both had the best quality hiking boots, only 1 boot made it’s way “home”. One of their superior “greater than 20 below” sleeping bags had gone missing. My DIL never had much costume jewelry. Her father always made an excellent living and consequently she had the “real stuff”! She found only 1 diamond stud (there were possibly 2 pair). Her jewelry box was no where around, but what was returned of her jewelry was just dumped into one of the boxes. [Ladies remember how carefully we always treated our chains so they wouldn’t kink?] They were anxiously waiting for their stuff because they wanted their computer. We had given them one for a combination birthday/anniversary/Christmas gift – and it was not cheap! [not like today, for sure] They were looking for their contact list and a number of other things they wanted to take another look at. They put the whole thing together and turned it on and nothing happened. No lights, no bumping pinging noises…..nothing. At first I thought perhaps somebody had forgotten to lock the disks (I don’t remember if that was still necessary at that time or not…but the thought ran through my mind) Of course, it was always possible that it had also been manhandled and did not make the trip well so we brought it down to the computer repairman downtown. He called within 2 hours of our dropping it off with the reason it wouldn’t operate - - somebody had reformatted the hard drive. Not erased everything…..reformatted everything. If you’re reading and don’t know that much about computers, reformatting wipes everything off the disk. Erasing it still allow it to “remember” that it was a computer- - - please now install my software so I can do something useful for you. This box didn’t know if it was a computer or a refrigerator! As if that wasn’t bad enough, even the software that had come installed on their computer came with a hard copy set. Microsoft Office was a $400+ program then. There were other programs we or they purchased and used, but I don’t recall anymore what they were. Now - - it makes sense to me that somebody would do that.. Instead of hunting around and looking for files that you don’t want duplicated anywhere - - especially your list of contacts, just set the thing on format and you don’t have to worry about doing any thing more - - it will carry out your last command while you go and finish ransacking their stuff! Their monitor and printer arrived intact but none of their computer supplies did. [None of their other office supplies either….not even a roll of scotch tape - or a single staple.] We knew they had office and computer supplies galore because we kept them well stocked. When you have to live on $1 a day, you ask your family and friends to send you such stuff for birthday and other gifts just so you can come out even! After the second week in August, when my son moved into “their” apartment [about 4 blocks away from this very place coincidently], I never saw my beloved DIL again. I still miss her - - at least the young woman she was. My son moved out. He took some of our “extra” furnishings and incidentals and their stored wedding gifts and began his new life. Why was all of this so hard on me? I don’t know. It didn’t really happen to me - - but it hit me so very hard. I don’t know how you who were, indeed, physically and otherwise abused managed to keep it so “together” today. Maybe it has to do with it happening to our kids. You know – I don’t mean to take anything away from you who also endured, but I wonder - - - you can do whatever you want to me and I’ll figure out a way to survive and endure it…….but if you touch one of my kids, I’ll go for your throat and have your bowels for lunch [figure of speech!]. Maybe that’s what it is. I do know this, however…………… When you’ve been **** e d by the Way, you’ve been through and through and throughly f**ked!

Man first walked on the moon! Where were you when you watched it? I was sprawled out on my living room floor in heat that was beyond hot (before we air conditioned the ol' homestead) with my mouth agape. What a nite.......

ayup!

Well, doojable the head of safety might cut them off from any and everything if he thought they were going to tattle on good king okie don'tcha know. He wasn't watching them because they left - - it wasn't their own free will, they were kicked out. Plus, the rage that my son showed in loy's office was enough to perhaps want to make sure that there was no way he could get back there to do anything else. And my DIL wasn't put out for leaving a christian training program....she was put out because her husband wouldn't have any part in the routine there. Hotel California, it was, though.

W#$ne C*&pp

I don't really know how to tell you all about the rest. Some things are crystal clear, and others I've almost forgotten. Where to begin……I guess chronologically is the easiest for a me - - and if you have a difficult time following me, fire those questions away and I'll do my best to answer them. I was sprawled all over my desk/computer preparing a website for a class of teachers who were taking a summer seminar at Stevens Institute in Hoboken NJ. I had a bit less than a week to finish it all up together with the rest of the materials. I think it was a Saturday nite, but I know that the phone rang about 10 or 11 at nite and I remember thinking who would have the nerve to call this late at nite? When I picked it up, at first I wasn't quite sure who was on the other end. It was my son, but he was so terrified his voice was quaking. He told me they had been kicked out..but not much more than that (at that time) and could I please pick them up at the airport the following morning - - early flight, sometime before 10 am. He gave me the phone # of the motel he was in asking me to phone him back.. He told me he was afraid for their lives and by the sound of his voice I was convinced he was right. He wanted to be sure that they weren't cut off and a phone call would get through. I called and he answered. I guess there are something mr linder and others of his ilk cannot do! I continued working, at least I could block out what was needed and fill in the contours of what was needed for the seminar a bit later. But I knew I'd never sleep that night – there was too much whirling around in my head – and my heart. There were many phone calls back and forth until around 2 am. My kids were afraid literally for their lives. I guess when you're confronted by so many guns held by so many very angry men, it does something to you. My kids kept looking over their shoulders for weeks, making sure they were safe. I don't know how I made it through the next 2 weeks. There were many all-nighters, either with my kids, or working on the seminar (which got rave reviews, by the way). The rest of that day, my son spent on the phone calling each and every one of their sponsors and anyone else they knew to tell them what happened and explain it to them in such a way that they would decide to end their association with the twi organization . They were quite successful. A number of their contacts did leave that day – others thought about it a while. Some of those left soon after. There were also phone calls to and from hdqtrs negotiating with the powers that be to get the rest of their stuff back (whatever was at Gunnison). They also had a hard time getting their money back out of their credit union account. The organization wanted to keep a certain portion claiming they were charging for their motel, phone calls, food and airline tickets home. My DIL's father got his company lawyers to work on that one and they got most of their money back. The next 2 weeks were relatively calm. Twi had to finish up that advanced class and it took a number of days to drive the truck with their belongings from Gunnison to our home town….and even right in front of our house. The kids had been instructed to secure a rental unit and when mr linder himself as the driver of the truck arrived on our street, the kids had to lead them to their storage compartment and their stuff was tossed off the truck onto the ground and the kids had to put it in the storage area. It was night time when the truck arrived, so there wasn't too much to see until the following morning when it was light again. The head of safety didn't bother to wait until things were safely put away, but as soon as their things were off-loaded he took off. And yes, there was a pistol on the front seat of the truck. Now that I think of it, poor mister linder must have been afraid of my kids - - otherwise why would he tote a revolver for his defense!? [tongue in cheek, of course] I'll finish up the last bit in a short time.

At some point, we must let it all go. Otherwise the weight of it will drag us down and keep us from doing anything that remotely seems like living some kind of fulfilling life. I didn't want to do this initially. I figured that as long as I kept it all in the front of my memory, I could shoot "bad vibes" at them. What was I thinking? I dunno. I think I was just reacting to the hurt in my heart. Even after I let it go, there were still times where it was on my mind at least once a day for a long time. I think it was years until I realized I'd gone several days without thinking about it. Please don't let stuff like this swirl around in your brain.

Even to THIS DAY.......JULY 2008.......many staffers do not know these details. My oh my, how effective those indoctrinational techniques are when the trustees tell people that "people get pozzezzed and try to discredit the man of gawd." It is baffling to see grown adults fully given over to cult mentality......and going nowhere in life. It's pretty easy to do when you kick out those who know and tell those who remain they can have no contact with those M&A'd less they themselves be contaminated with horribleness beyond compare. The only thing left, is to be careful in cleanup mode aka damage control. They are very good at damage control, as you'll see later. This isn't a real question is it? Hello, Rosalie Fox Rivenbark...............and why did you sit back and DO NOTHING????? You don't expect her to speak truthfully for once do you??? Come, come....skyrider! (tongue in cheek, of course) It's my opinion, that she's been so evil for so long, that she is now unable to speak the truth. When you live a lie long enough, it "becomes" true (in your mind) and everything else is false.

There is more to tell, and I intend to tell it but I've been a tad bit under the weather. Maybe by the weekend I'll finish it up. One question: can you tell us what action, if any, you know of that Rev. WC might have taken after this incident? Did he leave HQ then? Yes, he did. At the end of that class, he left.

The frog in the water pot, as the temperature rises......comes to mind Oh - but that's why we're here, isn't it?!

I don't know Abi. I've lost total touch with him. I only met him twice for brief periods of time.

Your son is a true hero, refusing to sell out for a "piece" of the kingdom; not caving in when faced with armed lunatics. Guts aren't needed to chase ghosts, and respect isn't due to those exposing how rotten the corpse really is so they can greedily grab their part of the inheritance Ductape, I don't think the whole Corps was evil. Some of them, for sure, but not all of them. Did you mean "core" instead? I have plenty of problems with many corps persons....but not with the corps as a whole. People are people and they are what they are, that's all.

Thanks Rocky. I expect that there will be some folks around here who would point fingers at me (us) looking for "proof" and/or other things....but you would never be among them. Yes, indeed he did get his life back. And....even more than he had. A little like Job...I think - - twice restored. When they came home, my son was on the phone for a couple of weeks, calling everybody he knew in the "ministry" telling all he knew to anyone who would listen. There were many who did listen to the truth from his mouth because many knew his quality and how he conducted himself. Many left that week or the next. I always felt that God would reward him in some special way for what he did to help people realize they should get out. And He has - - he got his old job back (at a bonus) and then his jobs have just gone up from there. He owns 2 homes...one he lives in, and one is a rental. He works for an auto importer andhis particular dealership has taken first prize for customer satisfaction in parts and service two years running. He has been, and continues to be blessed for his stand. God is always faithful. Ductape: I don't think the man on the bus to CO was really a "perp". The powers that be saw him as a threat....somebody who could spill the beans on the whole shootin' match - - just one more hole to close over.

Thanks you abi; now I see. Yes it takes a long time to recover from something like this. I know I'm not finished healing from it. It turned my husband off God completely. My son tried to reconcile with his wife but they just couldn't get it together after this. It wasn't a matter of trust, my son says his (then) wife had her whole head so twisted around by all this, that it seemed to him she couldn't consistently continue with rational thoughts and processes. Even as much as 2 months afterwards, she was still roaming around from room to room thinking she was on vacation somewhere. It wasn't real to her that she needed to start looking in the paper for a job. She just could not get it together. They found a small apartment not too far from where we lived, and they went off to see it. They took separate cars because she was going to look in on her mother afterward (so she said) but she was not seen again (by him)! Shortly after this, she went home to our house and packed her things while I was at work and lived with her mother for quite a while. Her father told my son to let her go - - she was so much like her mother - - and who else would know? It took a long long time for him to start coming out of it. I think he recovered faster than I did. Now, he's remarried to a wonderful young woman who really loves him. He makes an excellent living and really enjoys his life.

I don't think I can do anymore tonite. But if you have questions....or even comments...feel free to post them. Surely I will answer any that I can - - and tomorrow I will continue with more of the story. Yes, there is a whole lot more!

There are plenty of places to start, but I think I'll begin with that particular event. It is pretty easy to fill in the history when and where it's needed. It was common practice to bring the Corps in at an advanced class to assist with a number of things, particularly the branch meetings. The particular people mentioned by Skyrider were my kids, my son and his wife.....and another man. This other man was also married, but unlike my kids, he had children so it was decided he would go to hq and his wife would stay at Gunnison with the children. My DIL had been in loy's stable for quite some time by this point in time - - and apparently he'd called for her several times already during the week or 10 days that they had been at hq. The other man - - a Corp buddy-brother had gotten wind of my DIL's special "calling" and apparently approached her also for "relief" as he had been without his own wife for 10 days or so....and....it was up to her to "take care of the man (men) of god" donchaknow! Something happened and they were caught. My son blew his stack! She was serving everybody but him, and he was outraged because he knew it was just plain wrong. These 3 parties were brought together into loy's office together with Rev. wc and head of safety....Mr. Linder. (Hello mister linder ). There was a revolver on loy's desk and mister linder ( ) opened his jacket coat to reveal his loaded shoulder holster. There were many things said...but my son told me that he grew sicker and sicker (in his spiritual gut) and needed to set things to rights. So according to him, he pounded his own fist down on loy's desk and "ripped him a new one". Rev wc was shocked and saddened. He called loy out because several years prior to this incident, loy had apparently promised him (Rev wc) that these sexploits had ended and would be no more....but obviously it wasn't so. My son grew sicker....now realizing for the first time that everything he had gotten wind of previously was totally true. Even after all this - - loy begged them to stay.....he offered to change their interim assignment from Way Disciple to remaining at HQ to coordinate the Way Disciple program. My DIL begged my son to agree so they could stay (and she could remain Most Favored Female) but this required that my son give up his exclusive claim on his own wife and "join in" claiming for himself any one of the upper echelon women for himself. Obviously my son said "No" and then there was nothing to be done. They were dismissed to their quarters to pack their belongings and escorted by Safety (with a pistol on the front seat of the car) to the nearest airport (I don't remember anymore which one it was) and put up in a motel nearby until the following morning's flight home (to New Jersey) The other young man was put on a Greyhound bus and sent local back to Gunnison. They could have sent him express for the bulk of the distance but decided not to because this way they bought themselves plenty of time to get to his wife, squirrel her away to CO limb hdq where they could fill her head with all kinds of untruths so that they could retain her (and their children) in "the program".