krys

I've heard that vp together with several of his honkies took a class from him in Canada. Could VP have swiped this as well as other things we know he took? Do you have any info re his Ministries (Leonard's).

I doubt anyone thinks he's morally superior. Of course it is totally correct that any of the offshoots might be producing any of the signs, miracles and wonders you mention. However, things like that seem to attract attention to themselves. When the Way East and Way West were active in the earlier days gone by....it was these things that attracted attention to these groups. I think we might have seen more of these things from any of the offshoots. Of course, most of the time in twi itself, during the time I was active (78-98) there were very very few of these healings and mending of broken hearts in comparison to what should have been going on, The offshoots are following the same path of twi so I think the results would be comparable. I'm glad you're thinking and carefully considering these things. Too many folks just let somebody else do all the "work".

All this detail...stringing chairs...keeping plates and flatware at exact measured(?) positions.....the persistence on retemories letter perfect......Now I see this as evil in and of it self....BECAUSE. None of us went to twi knowing anything about Scripture but we all wanted to know God and His Son....and the Scripture. So....buy insisting we follow certain exact principles, such as even how underwear and other clothing should be folded in a drawer they trained our minds to think...."everything around here is one big pile of details". It wouldn't be much of a leap for us who knew no better and had no real standard to measure Biblical Study and the correctness of such study.....it's easy to transfer the IDEA of....hey look so much detail goes in here...and over here....and don't forget how the grass is mowed.....etc that we automatically thought the Word was handled with the same care and precision. It wasn't but we had no way to know that.

That's all so true. I did that as well, and a few other really scary things. However, ultimately I realized that God is still God and He is who He says He is.....and we are His sons (and daughters) and everything He promised....(not the dumtwits) will be. I can rest safely in that. I don't have to know everything. I don't have to pretend to know everything. Many of the things I'm rooting over now may or may not be correct....but I am reviewing and trying to keep all in His perspective. I'm sure you'll get to that place too. When you do, You'll realize that you are moving faster than you thought you were and you are more certain of many things than you thought you were. I hope I haven't confused you. Trust me please. you'll also be surprised at how much money you have.......

Outstanding observation Mr. Waysider. You and Skyrider know your way around a certain cult in Ohio. I've had to string a chair or two in my time, and discovered that older metal folding chairs never line up. When higherups used to try and nag us to death about not stringing properly....we just pointed them to the blue circle on the bottom of the seat. Whenever we had trouble lining one up....it was usually because that chair was bent from use....and we spray painted a blue dot on the bottom of the seat.

Even their deceit was hidden! I'd just about gotten myself to the place where I realized how many lies there were so that I could believe nothing....when I realized that there were some truthful scriptures and other things they taught which were also truthful. So now where did that leave me? At that time I didn't have any way to sort it out. I was up a creek without both a paddle and a rudder.

It depends on the book!

I think that they were the single largest source of debbul spurt influence in our daily lives and this is one of the avenues of attack.

It made me sick to keep washing those Styrofoam cups too. I seriously considered a secret thumbnail marking hidden on the bottom to ensure they weren't washed more than twice and their third use was the end. I just picked that # as a way to finality and getting rid of them. God bless those who gave their houses over to run a class. The classroom was set up and left....for 3 weeks except sometimes. It was vacuumed reasonably often...but the family usually didn't have much use of the room. Other rooms were designated for other purposes too. The class instructor usually needed some private space, though not usually a room...Set up crew was on duty every class day. Bathrooms were cleaned before students arrived...kitchen's straightened up (sometimes not necessary....depended on the rhythm of the household). When students left, bathrooms were re-cleaned for family use. During the winter, if it snowed during one of the sessions, we'd be out brushing off the cars...and sweeping steps etc to "bless" the students. It was rare, but shoveling was sometimes necessary. When the students were on their way....we'd be doing close-up cleaning....THEN brush our own cars off....and it would be time to go home. In my case...it was about 35 minutes...THEN I got to unwind and go to bed. Normal day the next day...get up and go to work....sometimes followed by another class the following evening. Obscurity was where you didn't see it unless you really knew where to look.

A very large section of the brain is given over to processing the sense of smell. Also. of all the distinctions we are able to count as tastes....the majority of the differentiation is the odor or smell of the food together with the taste. To soothe those undergoing MRI scans (especially children) they have found that the scent of vanilla is unparallelled. It reminds us all of simple cookies baking in the oven.

I agree with this totally

I agree with Pen on this. I don't believe this is correct. I'd like to see some documentation for it. Also - I don't think Rosie "procured", neither did Donna. Let's get real! Can you imagine Donna walking up to some girl and saying, Hey, you're a cure young thing....come over here and sleep with my husband because he's the king and all the women belong to him. Somehow, I cannot see Donna doing that. Although Rosie knew well what was going on, I don't believe she ever personally involved herself. I wouldn't put it past her to get someone to do it....but that's a far cry from doing the deed herself. Someplace on the official pages in the front of this forum, there are documents which mention a woman by name who used to do the procurement. She wasn't the only one, but she was one of the main ones.

From time to time when either of them went on one of their famous tirades, I thought it was a spiritual takeover.

@Twinky The Advanced Class in 1992 was not an Advanced class per se. It was supposed to be on discerning of spirits (more or less). It was billed as an Advanced Class Special. d edited to remove the extra posts -- who knows how that happened?

@Twinky The Advanced Class in 1992 was not an Advanced class per se. It was supposed to be on discerning of spirits (more or less). It was billed as an Advanced Class Special.

Yes, Lately I have. An ophthalmologist...a md for eyes. Extreme sarcasm about changes in my vision and what he thought were structural changes...too soon to tell about that....changes could be from some other thing. I named the drug I use for asthma and he said..."that's not for asthma" it's for emphysema which you got from smoking. I said, no, it is asthma....it is the bronchial tubes which tighten....in emphysema the lung tissues fall apart and become too big to be effective. He made some snide comment about the patient telling the doctor what's the score. I'm surprised I didn't fly off the handle at his nastiness and quietly suggested that he ask Dr. Porris, the pulmonologist upstairs who prescribed it for me what use it has. He gave me a sample of something to use for dry eye and asked me back in a week to see how it worked. I had a 12:30 appointment. When I was still sitting in a relatively full waiting room at 3 pm I got up and left!

This is an old classic too - - but with a different flavor.....it's all good.

agreed

Not really Waysider...I think they picked it out ahead of time. At least that's what it seemed like. One of the classes gave him a cottage. He was infatuated with these things. They were lovely...perfect and very miniature. I forgot how much it cost...it was pretty pricey, but the class was large so it wasn't too much money each. He used several of the cottages he already owned as examples of what he was teaching. It had to do with "perfection" - hitting the mark each and every time.

Oh yes, most every teacher of "advanced classes" had love offerings for gifts. I remember sometimes even PFAL and in the early years it was to replace some of the goods provided by the home. I had no problem with that. If I was that home owner I'd be unhappy if I had to replace the TP used by 16 - 20 people for 13 meetings! Later it evolved, at least in my area, into a contest....who could out-do the next guy. When that happened it was stopped from the top down....except for the head mog, of course....he always got a pretty hefty gift. It was proper protocol!~~

We learned a lot from the mog's feet - - only not so much that I want to brag about!

When I was very young, most of the women in my church growing up were home makers. That was the way things were then. There was a large monthly meeting of these women (who wanted to, of course) and they were the Women's Guild. They took on missionaries to support and did whatever they had to to finance them. Sometimes they took on other projects too. There was also Women's Circle. These were small units...maybe 12 - 15 or so. Mostly they followed some study program or other approved by Consistory (Consistory = elders + deacons + minister(s)) As I remember, the Guild mainly served the church and it's programs and the Circles mainly served the non church community. My mother belonged to one of these Circles...she always joined the same one....most people did. They found a niche where they could work together with a single focus and see a particular job through to completion. The organic church seems much like those Circles. Also...the idea of them behaving as an "evolving organism" isn't meant literally...I'm sure you know that..When you work with some of the same people long enough you cut to the chase more quickly and honor one another's contributions without words. As I remember some of the strongest women were members of some of these circles.

It was 2 years after I took the class before I wanted to go to the Advanced Class. I asked a lot of questions about what I saw, or heard taught etc and sometimes I'd get an answer and sometimes they'd tell me it was "Advanced Class stuff". OK so I knew there were 6 other manifestations and I wanted to know all about them and how to use them. At the end I thought....."but wait is that all there is???" You took so much time and care to teach us how to SIT and get better at it, and also SIT and Interpretation and Prophesy I was hoping to hear a little about how to do it....."if God has a cookie in the jar, you may have it" ain't gonna cut it. I was new at this stuff....but I wasn't gonna lay out my life in front of some of these folks (I'd seen what they did with identifiable information)..so I asked God to teach me...and He did but it took me a long time to learn when God wasn't talking to me. Sometimes when people would ask me to pray for them, I would, sometimes it was ministering other times it wasn't....but there were a couple of people who'd run right up to me and ask me "what did you get?" like it was the answer to a math problem. Come-on...if you ain't doin'g the homework....don't expect to make much progress!

Frogs are very cool!

Congratulations on your new business! It will be exciting for you to develop it and watch it grow. Enjoy your holiday. Happy New Year.