templelady

have just installed IM name is maurekay1951 Would love to have some of your names so we can chat If you don't want to post e-mail is mkd@gci.net

USing my dyslexic fingers to type responses to posts??? Errr That must be the wrong answer Operating in my own "wonderland"??? Yeah, I'll stick with that one Seriously though, by the time I get to the forums in the evening you guys are all gone, no one to chat with

Hate TWI --that's not the right word for me I think CONTEMPT fits the bill in my corner of the universe

Wouldn't have to guess or speculate --if you were up front about your organization and your involvement You are the one who is unable or unwilling to provide clear concise information .Why thank you very much -compliments are always nice

THE ever present ever useful ever needed

Prayers for you and all of your fellow armed forces there. Want you all home NOW Even though I don't agree with our current position -- I want you to know how very proud of you I am, and all our brave men and women, for doing your duty, for standing for this country, for doing your best. You exhibit the kind of bravery, commitment, and dedication that make us all hold our heads up in pride.

Let them recruit Most of us here may be taken in for a while--but we aren't going to change our belief systems at the drop of a hat. And if someone wants to be recruited well thats their right. Recruiting is okay--i Its the lies and distortions of the truth that are the problem. And I'm NOT calling doctrinal differences or belief systems Lies or distortions.

Really, are you part of CFFM?? If you are a part of CFFM why don't you name yourself as such???? If not CFFM which world -wide group??? I have tried to keep out of the CFFM/offshoot vs TWI debate never having been, or desired to be, part of an offshoot. BUt I do think that if you are CFFM or other offshoot or TWI you should be upfront about it --unless you are either a) ashamed, or b) you have doctrinal differences. And if you have doctrinal differences then how can you be a part of???? I'm sooooo CONFUSED

I read "uncle HArry" "The Way: LIving in Love" And I can remember thinking at the time that they were just glorified Ads for TWI. Everyone has struggles--there are dark spots in everyone's lives that is true of orgaizations too. It's those struggles that make us strong, that build character, that define policy, that create firm foundations. But in Way World, the struggles are minor blimps, everything just comes together, all is light and harmony. And yet the truth is so far removed from the fantasy. but my favorite quote has always been Denominations are "man made" And VPW was a ???? "We do things according to Gods Word"--As interpreted and expounded by VPW "we do things as the first century church"-- actually if you get right down to it there is really nothing in the Bible about the actual day to day nuts and bolts of how the first century church operated. THere are glimpses of meeting in homes, sharing of resources, preaching, etc. But no manual of the actual workings you know things like -- "today we met and passed a rule that members meeting in the west sector of Jerusalem needed to confine themselves to no more than 15 people as larger groups have caused complaints from the neighbors of disturbing the peace" VPW took "meeting in homes" "all things in common" and ran with it, codifying and making decrees "It's not a building or a denomination, but the people who believe and act on the Word of God" Lets see, we have the Way HQ , we have buildings, we have tax exempt status, we have security to keep people away that aren't up to our standards (even in the LDS church-which practices excommunication-you aren't kept away from meetings --unless there are legal reasons-- since it is by coming to meetings and fellowship that you are able to straighten your life out), ABS, etc. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck.... TWI = denomination

Zooommminnngg back to the topic..... I really don't know if cursing TWI works--I mean they are still here THe offshoots are still here The Way brained are still amoung us BUt I, for one can't, praise them there isn't anything praiseworthy about them The people I met who were praiseworthy were praiseworthy in spite of TWI I still would like an answer to the question I posted on another thread-- CAn anyone tell us of any leadership that became, better, more loving, more Christlike, becuase of their continued association with TWI???? That is the litmus test...

BRother SPeed you stay safe over there, Okay????

No plea bargain, no deals try re reading again My husband was S Dilley (same last name as mine) Rich Urquhart was our Twig coordinator -- (ie minister in the eyes of the court) I don't really mind that you have such a distorted view of the world MJ -- that is to your detriment BUt I am fed up with you DELIBERATELY Posting lies about me and my children to bolster said distortions You ,who are so fond of our jurisprudence system, why don't you tell us all what the penalties are in your state for LIBEL. A crime that you have just commited (actually you have committed it numerous times) I most strongly suggest that you don't do it again. Or you may just find that you are going to actually find out just how the court system works --YOu know those "monkey courts that have no real power ("monkey courts" and her derisive dismisal of same is found on on another thread by MJ)

Now the important question---- Were those chairs stringed????

CW Yeah the more said party types the more I have noticed that her "insights" appear canned as if they are taken from Tv shows, talk shows, COurt tv, Magazicne articles etc. and she is just parroting back what she has read/heard which would explain the disjointedness I notice that she is very careful not ot talk about cases in general that she has worked on Notice that she is very careful not to say "I experienced" when talking about social services But most importantly, like all disciplines and professions there are "buzz" words, phraseologies, certain vocabulary that is used by social services when talking about their work. And they all use it wether CPS, or Therapists, or those who work in nursing homes with seniors. MJ uses none of it. While anyone who was/is actually in social services would use a certain phraseology to explain their postion or ideas MJ doesn't, in fact it is at that point that she begins to ramble. Social workers don't ramble they are cocise and to the point. If anything they understate the situation so as not to be held accountable for the words they speak. You are right CW--this isn't a member of Social Services. You are also right that this has let me say what I have needed/wanted to say for years. Hang on to that printout--HAve a feeling we'll need it one of these days

And per you this was available in the ALAska of the 1980's??? REALLY??? The trick is actually finding one... between supporting the family protecting the kids, yourself and jumping through hoops Oh so in 1982 when I was forced to go on welfare and not go anywhere with out my hubby if the kids were present that was an example of not taking sides?? Having a social worker being best buddies with my husband while demanding sex from me was not taking sides??? Refusing to act on any of my requests while treating all his & TWI's accusations/excuses as gospel was an example of not taking sides??? None of those here Oh you mean the housing where you can stay with your kids but they don't provide daycare, so you have to take the kids back to the daycare where he can get them so you can go to work. Better now but in 1982-87 nah, not at all prepared to deal with the realities of women who had to work to support their familes, pay the bills etc. Must be nice living in LA La land Too bad, it should be the same all the time--moms & kids get support and protection abusers, get jailed Didn't love him, was terrified would have gone in a new york minute if There was anywhere to go where he couldn't get to us This is incoherent makes no sense at all Crying over this thread--I'm sorry, perhaps it would be more useful to save your tears for young mothers and their children stuck with an abuser with nowhere to run Already gave my opinion about this bit of insanity Since I was the one paying the bills just needed him gone Gee do you think maybe she dropped the charges because of the beating she got after the last time you let him out of jail??? Ya think that maybe she figured out that turning him in, only for you, to let him go afterwards and so he can come find her might make her a little afraid of TRUSTING your good intentions the next go around??? Templelady I NEVER ASKED FOR HELP??? That is all I did for 7 years only to be told that it was my responsibility to get him out of the house!!! Not to mention the fact that as An Alaska Native he automatically had more rights than I to the kids. Not to mention that since he didn't work he got to keep the kids at home since his not working made me ineligible for daycare., Left to where?? Have you ever looked at a map??? You don't just drive across state lines--In fact in Alaska you don't drive much of anywhere--and as for money--You mean the money I was able to hide--the money for food (try feeding a family on $#11.00 FOR TWO WEEKS MUCH LESS BUYING AIRLINE TICKETS. i WORKED FOR THE MONEY DOESN'T MEAN hE LET ME KEEP IT Ah the social worker copout--blame the victim them we have to feel less guilty becuase we are doing so little and what we do do is so ineffectual Why batter women stay (this is called the battered-woamn syndrome I am surprised someone in your field hasn't studied it and therefore knows the answer to the question.) 1)It is my job to keep myself and the kids safe 2) He won't hit/beat/chock/kick etc if he isn't angry 3)Therefore I must keep him from getting angry 4)Will leaving or attempting to leave make him angry? 5) if the question to #4 is yes see #3 Of couse in a PERFECT world Social services would whould make it clear that # 3isn't her job BUt as has already pointed out they enforce that notion rather than remove the abuser I'm nopt going to dignify this self-justification of SOcial work ineptitude with a response Options are limited--more justification Lets see for 5 years 1982-1987 I pled for help CW pled for help all falling on deaf ears Then 1987 they arrested Rich Urquhart and then arrested my husband and then for good measure arrested me. And then put the kids in foster care where I was allowed no contact no reunification plan 1988 Rich went to jail, Hubby went to jail, I was acquited Still no contact no reunification plan I got a divorce 1989 Hubbies parental rights were terminated Still no contact no reunification plan TWI informed them I had MS Notice to terminate parental rights based on Health issues Relinquishment Now when exactly was it I refused to LET THEM help me and the kids????? Social Services was too busy worring about CTA to avoid admitting that their inept refusal to do anything for the years 1982-1987 was 90% of the problem SO glad you understand--but just when do you and your collegues plan to become the solution rather than part of the problem???

never ask for help for her kids I asked them to get him out of the house!!!! UNderground?? Strangers offering HElp?? PLane tickets??? Housing??? We are talking 1982-1989 in Anchorage Alaska How DARE YOU pretend that the small advancements made in the last decade were even remotely avaiable to women outside of large population centers in the 1980's How DARE YOU pretend that the services of today were available then How DARE YOU pretend that social services even remotely gave a damn until laws forced them in to action SO let me get this straight He is beating the living daylights out of her and the kids so she gets arrested too and in your twisted little mindscape this is progress?!!?!?!?!?? How About this-- JUST ARREST THE PERSON DOING THE ABUSING!!!! I know, that is an extremely complicated idea AND OH YEAH while we are on the subject did you know that if a woman today in the United States reports her husband for Domestic violence she AUTOMATICALLY loses custody of her kids because she "Let" it happen. Yup--that's sure fire way to encourage victims to ask for help Yes in deedy just me makes me all warnm and fuzzy inside knowing MJ and her salwart associates are out there making life more hellacious and more difficult than ever for wqomen to get free of an abuser and still keep her kids. My consolation is that you will have to stand before the GOd you profess to believe in and face the women whose children you have torn from their arms, the children who have lost their mothers because they had the bad fortune to marry an abuser, the families whose necks were surrounded by the legalistic millstones you delight in. All so you could glory in the POWER of life and death you possess [As one social worker, female, told me "I have the POwer, and you are d--n well going to learn that before I am done with you!"] (she was the one sleeping with my husband) Jesus offers salvation to those who repent--I would suggest that you still have time to repent of the evil which you and your corrupt system foist on the rest of your fellow mankind

And just whose two feet other than my own am I standing on??? And what about Jesus --here he went and had twelve Disciples and he whispered words of encouragement to them all the time--Boy was he out of line And Then Paul in his letters--lots of encouragement there as well as telling the saints to stand together--uplift one another etc etc etc--clearly we now know that he was way off base Thanks Allen for clearing things up

IN the mid 1990's laws were finally passed compelling police/social services to remove abusers. No more "well we didn't see it", No more "well it's his word against yours", no more "well, you can leave but you can't take the kids", no more "well, husbands and wives fight and sometimmes they fight violently". Things are marginally better now but only because laws were enacted to COMPELL social services to act,

Social Services needed to do only one thing to save my family With the help of the police remove my husband, from the home, and take whatever steps necessary to keep him away so he didn't kill us. They didn't want to pursue this action Instead for 7 years they put me on the hotseat, on the two occassions he was arrested he was home within 24 hours. Everyone knew he was beating me and the kids-- they told me too my face-- but when I asked why they didn't arrest him and get him out of the house I was flat told that it was my responsibility to get him out. DAy care I could handle, bills I could handle (if I could hide the money fast enough), houssehold tasks I could handle--I just needed them for one thing And they wouldn't do it

Actually I owe mj a vote of thanks... As a self admitted member of the social service community she has eloquently demonstrated, far better than my words could express, the realities of trying to deal with said community.

THe hand of TWI

THe frightening thing is that the teen years are when we start to define our own lives. That's when we rebel, we try our wings, we learn from our bumps. Hopefully we have parents, and teachers and religious leaders to encourage us to spread our wings, to provide foundtion while we look at the world and all it has to offer. Locking children into a mindset of fear is not what it takes Locking children into an us or them mentality is not what it takes Giving children a firm foundation as a anchor while they come to know and understand the world, its peoples, and its vast differences is what it is about. ONe of my sons paid me a compliment recently, he said " you made a lot of mistakes, we suffered things no child should have too, but one thing you did manage to get right--you taught us that a belief in God and Jesus Christ was of paramount importance. Because we saw that you believed that GOD would be there no matter what" This was the GOD of my childhood --The GOd who loved--the GOd who forgave--The GOd that was always there and His Son Jesus Christ who would, in the end, MAke all things right as long as one held on, who would always forgive no matter the sin. I held on to them through my tears, through TWI's attempts to redefine them, through the most bitter dsays of my life-- If we do not give our children this or a similar anchor they will be helpless when the vagaries of life come upon them

It's the secrecy thing-- Wouldn't go back don't like "lock boxes" DOn't like the "babes in the word" excuse Don't like the "pickiness" Don't like the nosiness I Do NOt I DO Not Like TWI. I want to ask "Why?" SO If I must try I'll Fly because I do not I do not like TWI!

Shell-- MJ clearly has a need to defend Social workers She clearly has a need to defend the system She clearly chooses to do that by blaming those ensnared in the net rather than facing the reality of Social Services in the United States today. Why she feels that way, the forces that drive her I don't begin to understand--but it is clear that my story and the realities of that story unleash a powerful reaction in her. It is pointless to point out facts to her --she simply filters them through the rose tinted glasses she is desparately trying to keep on her nose-- THat is her burden--I think what we are all saying is that we have recognized the pointlessness of trying to make her understand.. She doesn't want to understand ---she wants to make it fit in her little box-- and the fact that it won't is creating havoc in her world--so we are moving on to other things--

Mormon 100% Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants 95% Jehovah Witness 91% To make it fair I answered with beliefs I've held most of my adult life Looks like i finally found my niche aft 51 years !! Oh and Waterbuffalo and Oilfieldmechanic we can fix the non-Mormon part ya know -->