templelady

What I have most enjoyed about this thread is seeing how many Non-LDS have positive things to say about the LDS they have come in contact with. Even if we disagree doctrinally it is good to know that the "light of Christ" continues to shine through the people who follow him-no matter what thier chosen faith.

I wonder what ever happened to those tablets Moses brought down from Sinai. Or all the books that are referred to in the OT where the histories of the various judges and kings are written--Guess we better chuck the OT too. Oh yeah--that is what VPW taught isn't it??? Every other Christian Church teachs death is the end of the family. Despite what they say about seeing our loved ones in heaven--what they MEAN is you see your loved ones at the judgement and then they are gone forever. A doctrine that teaches part of your reward is going through the pain of losing your loved ones all over again--- THAT IMO is a crock. The knowledge that heaven will be with God his Son Jesus Christ and all your family is is what I find most comforting about the LDS faith I am still totally confused as to where you get the idea that self-defense of oneself and others is un Christian And as for killing --better revisit the Salem witchcraft trials, Konx's Scotland, Calvin's Geneva, THe Missouri of Governer Boggs etal--good Protestants all Persons who happen to be LDS who kill who they percieve as "unbelievers" IS NOT the same thing as the LDS church advocating the killing of "unbelievers" Unlike a certain organization and its offshoots who are known for such pronouncements as "God won't spit in your direction" "you'll be greaspots before midnight" "if you leave the household your family will die" as well as several suspicious deaths over the years I really think that People, like yourself Allan , who espouse these organizations and their views should't be throwing stones at myself or anyone else.

Just when was this claim Made??? Joseph smith clearly states in the forward to the BOM "and now if there are faults, they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be spotless a the judgement seat of Christ" Allan I don't care that you disagree with me, It isn't my goal to convert you (although IMO it does seem to be your goal to convert ME) What really annoys me is that it is very clear that you've never read the BOM for yourself, all you are doing is spouting phrases from ant-mormon literature. Before this goes any further, perhaps it would help if you actually took the time to find out for yourself what the BOM does or doesn't say. I mean that is what VPW said to do isn't it?? Find out for yourself???

I'm sure I have what is right for me. I am more than happy to share it with others I will stick up for what I believe, and why I believe it Just because I'm sticking up for the above does not mean I demand that you agree with my beliefs Nor I am going to condemn you for not agreeing --in point of fact my faith forbids me to condemn anyone--if there is any condemning to do that is God's job--

So YOU sayPut then I think VPW was full of errors The clinical term is "hematohidrosis." Please see the following link -- LDS aren't the only Chrsitians who believe it to be true http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t018.html please read Hebrews 11the word faith throughout this chapter is the Greek word pistis I give you your opinion the "members of public" was a 200+ mob armed with bayonets and rifles that stormed an upstairs room with one door and one window and four men held there. Joseph Smith fired out through the door, the same door which moments before the mob had shot through killing his brother. Hyrum died in Josephs arms. I don't know of a single person who when faced with death woulld not defend themselves, their family and friends.

But isn't this EXACTLY how they taught us to SIT in "piffle"??? They told me to just to start speaking So if VPW admitted he just 'faked" it what about the rest of us who felt compelled to "perform" who "faked" it??? I've spoken in tongues but not in TWI so I know the experience IS real. But I also know that I and many others just burbled nonsense in TWI

I've heard these words before--- Back in 1982 or was it 1983? maybe 1984? could have been 1985? 1986? 1987? I mean they are the same canned phrases, the same buzzwords even the same reasearch. I mean if the ministry is what you believe don't you thinkit is time that a little "Meat" was preached instead of just more Milk???? :huh:

I personally call them : Fellow Greasespotter's And for the Record my name is Maureen K Dilley 438 East 9th Anchorage, AK 99501 Anything else you would like to know Allan???

Thank you flor your kind words about my church. But we do no more than is expected of any Christian OM and Allan--I've read more of all the pros and cons concerning the LDS church, for over 34 years while investigating it that the both of you collectively. But more important I read the BOM for myself, I went to Meetings, I go to the temple. And in all those years I have yet to find one single thing that contadicts the following facts Jesus Christ was the son of GOD who came to earth to live as a man He lived a perfect life He took the burden of all our sins; the past, the present, the future, on himself which caused him such agony in the Garden of Gesthemene he sweated drops of blood. He was improsoned, stripped, beaten, scourged, and mocked as a punishment for those transgression until he was so broken and bloody he could scarece be recognized as a man He willingly went to Calvary so he could die. Knowing that he would be resurrected and thus we would be given the gift of eternal live througfh his suffering and atonement for our sins. IF and when I find the LDS church teachin gdoctrine other than this I will leave. As for the rest of it, I reaaly don't care-- the church is filled with imperfect people who do thengs wrong, mess up , and generally just blow it. Sometimes on a gigantic level. Unlike TWI and its followers the LDS church does not try to make sin OKAy with pronouncements of Lock boxes, MOGFATs, and corrupt leadership etal

I'd agree with that --the sad thing was that in TWI eyes it was never enough. If you left TWI--coming back was a living horror. It was immediately made clear to all and sundry that you had sucumbed to "the wiles of the adversary", "you lacked believeing". This was thrown in your face every time you asked a question. It was pointed out to fellow believers that you could not be really trusted. Your life was very very narrowly circumscribed it you wanted to remain. I always knew I could go back --all I had to do was say that my husband had never abused me, Rich Urquhart was not a sexual predator, Leadership was totally right and I was totally wrong.I was the "recipeint" of Physical Abuse Iwas the recipient of Mental abuse Iwas the 'recipeint" of disrespect I was the "recipient" of Vicious lies about myself I was the "recipients of Sexual Abuse" And my children were all recipients also. Right OM I could have left... leaving my children behind I could have left taking which evey child or children I was currently with... leaving the others behind I could have called the police...OOPS , sorry, Did that--was told it was my problem to get him out of the house. I Could have got a gun and shot the &^$&^$&^%&*... in which case I'd be doing 99 yeas and the kids would still have ended up in the system. I could have just killed myself and ended my misery.. leaving the kids with SD I could have killed them I could have killed us all I think one of the problems with "Abuse" is that it's often forgotten that just because you "Could" do something doesn't mean you "Should"

:) :) :) WOW to read this thread and find all my wonderful friends defending my rights made my morning!!! thank you Now to answer Allan myself That is very true--the problem was that TWI would take passages of scripture that were clearly speaking on one topic and change or modify that topic to suit their purposes--Does AOS ring a bell??? I am a bit confused here--are you saying that if I or any other GSer has differing religious viewpoints we are not supposed to comment????? that sounds a little like TWI conrol to ME I believe the BOM was inspired by GOD as he revealed it to Nephi, Helaman, Alma, Ether and Morman to name just a few. I believe that Joseph Smith translated those writings at GOD's direction

GOey It's okay to RESIST those irrepressable impulses! :D

And that was TWI's undoing in my world. When it became obvious that what was beoing said didn't match what was on the page I had two choices 1) believe that Men of old were inspitred by GOd to write inaccuracies :wacko: or 2) Believe that the person doing the talking was spouting inaccuracies :) never have been sorry that I picked door number two

OOOHHH nice interior decoration I see you still serve the meatloaf, smashed taters and peas on tuesday night

A conqueroring survivor

All of them at one time some I still struggle with but in mycase it's hard to separate the marital abuse from TWI abuse since they were concurrent and fueled by the same fire. BUt I am proof it is possible to outthink , outwit, and become THE survivor :D-->

THe problem was ... leadership was not there to council they were there to maintain the status quo Therfore, when presented with a problem, the first line of thought WAS NOT "how can we fix, ameliorate, or rectify this situation" no The First thought was "how do we keep the ministry's name out of this" As for it happening in the LDS church. Of course it does and in every other organization in the country. The difference is that while you might havve a bad ward, or a bad stake, the whole apple cart isn't rotten.

ONce a year here in Alaska Mormon-land we have a day long genealogical seminar, Various classes (you get to pick and Choose) It's all day so you get 6 1 hour sessions plus and hour for lunch. These are in depth sessions on one topic, some of the teachers, recognized as specialist in a field, come from the lower 48. The visitors are housed at a members home free of charge. The session itself is held at one of the stake centers in the gym/multipurpose room, the charge for this??? last year it was $18.00 If you wnated to have lunch there it was an additional $4.00. The 18 covered the cost of printing the syllabus, an inch and a half thick with all the key points from all the classes. the $4.00 covered the paper cups plates etc. The lunch is a buffet with everyone bringing something--home cooked-soup to nuts-all you can eat. Now that is how you run a class

THe snow Okay here I go again playing devils advocate Men and women throughout time have had visions. Visions do not have to be in "real time". It is entirely possible for one to have a vision in the presence of others that no one else hears or sees. Saul on the road to Tarsus, Elijah, Isaiah, John the Divine, Joseph Smith, Joan of Arc, myself, countless others.. So it isn't inconceivable to my mind that VPW saw snow. It isn't even inconceivable that his prayer was sincere, even the most insincere have moments of sincerity. What bothers me is the totality of VPW's career. I mean granting him, in this instance, the benefit of the doubt..he still squandered the gift GOd offered. Squandered, abused and neglected it. THAT'S what bothers me

Grocho hit the mark-- TWI never said you needed to pay for the class to offset the expense of putting it on. COuld have got in trouble that way since it cost nothing to run. Free labor and an already paid for film/tape. any cost after that was negligible. TWI charged becuase without that $100.00 investmnet 90% of the students wouldn't have shown up after the second three hour session on those "stringed" metal torture chambers they called seats. And those departing wouldn't have recommended it either. The 100 wasn't for books because you had to buy those separate NO the 100 was because the product wasn't that great and that was the only way to insure revenue. Out of my class of twelve (newbies) maybe 4 were still with TWI after 18 months. Not a very good return for somthing that was supposed to be the greatest thing since the 1st century

People all over this country buy season tickets to the opera, ball games, theaters etc. They pay for those tickets because they have determined that the product is something they find value in. Note what i just said, THey have determined that the product is something they find value in. If in fact Piffle had so much "value" it would not have been necessary to charge 100+ dollars to keep people in attendence. THey would have come, found the value, kept coming and word of mouth would have brought more in and kept them coming.

I remember watching AOS here in Alaska. Everybody oohing and ahhing when it was over. As a kid I took classical Ballet, and piano, did a lot of recitals over the years. And all I could think was "A troup of 6 year old ballerinas wouldn't be caught dead performing like that" MOre to the point, no self respecting teacher of the arts would allow her students to perform that poorly, at least not if she wanted said students parents to continue to pay for lessons at her studio! NOw I have to admit, that LOY looks-wise just isn't my type. But setting that aside, the entire production shouted EGO even then. Poorly designed sets--really no sets at all, most high school productions do far better- "DAnce" sequences that were just aeorobics lifted from an exercise tape. Costuming--is that what you call off the rack exercise wear??? And of course LOY striking his "muscle man" poses with his little rainbow colored headband Pathetic is a fair description As for sprituality--does supressing the gag reflex count???

So let me get this straight-- Rosalind served on the mission field for SIXTEEN YEARS before she was converted??!?!?!?!? So if you had any depth of sprituality you "prayed about it" but she didn't need to pray. So I take it from this, that it was VPW's contention that people who didn't pray about his requests had more spritual depth than those who did??!?!?! Ahh there is the VPW we know and "love" Okay, wait a minute, I thought this was the night she showed VPW that the word was from GOD-becuase He hadn't known that before NOw he is saying that she showed him that he should teach the WOrd -- not a single thing in this whole speech about not knowing the Bible was the word of GOD. That's the problem with "creative license" in your life , you keep losing track of where you created something other than the truth.

I've been found !!! YEAH!! :)-->

Getting paid for doing what you love, doesn't get any better than that Congrats