templelady

THat is soooo true We are to be followers of Jesus Christ Nowhere are we told to be Followers of Paul Yet in many CHristian churches not just TWI, Paul is the central focus. Paul was a man, who made mistakes, and didn't always get it right. To build your faith on an imperfect man, no matter who or wht he was , will eventually lead to disaster.

Cybersopace is tailor made for this kind of behavior. Anonymous, private. Very possible that these people are able to "maintain" to a much better degree in the 'real' world But here in the forums they have a release, for their agressions, and frustrations, safe from actual face-to-face interaction

Oak, In this instance I don't know if absurd is the right word I think deceitful is probably better

Just recieved a thank you from AKST. I belive they are on the case-- of course this requires interstate cooperation- between AK and OH and whatever bolthole they have run to. Rich is not a stupid man-he very likely saw the Abrans report and has relocated. Sharon is the key, she has a bad leg due to polio, has been confined to a wheelchair for many years. Even if she has lost weight and now able to move without the wheelchair she has severe health problems. That means they will have to be in an area with ready access to state-of-the-art health facilities

WIthout getting into a discussion as to whether VPW actually received revelation I submit that it is possible to receive revelation and A- Ignore it B- accept only bits and pieces of it C- add to and change it to YOUR satisfaction D- a combination of all or some of the above

It has been proven that people with a positive, I'm going to to do it attitude often succeed where others fail. They often recover from surgery, often survive bad situations, often beat seemingly unbeatable odds. Positive outlook often does create chemical changes in our bodies, it often does keep us going when others would quit. That is not the same as a "law of Believing" Positive outlook can get you far, but it isn's an iron clad promise.

Thanks Grocho just e-mailed the information to the alaska State Troopers

Okay, It is clear Now EVERYBODY knows something I don't know about me!! I mean, you think I would have noticed I had a wife I should have surely noticed RAf lurking in my closet under my skirt BUT No, NOt me I was too busy being heterosexual B)

??!?!?? :huh: ???!?!? :huh:

NO I'm notIf I were following the LCM policies the following would have been done 1) you woudl be immediately "marked and avoided" from these forums forever 2) a search would then be made through all posts to see who had ever agreed with or supported even one of your points. 3) all those found in this search would also be immediately marked and avoided from this forum forever Instead the TL policy says 1) keep MIke as an intergral part of the GS family 2) give MIke a special spot where he can contunue to post his Ideololgy, and discuss it 3) Let whosoever will come and go freely to Mikes room discussing as they will, free of interference. YOU would be allowed to post on threads , howewver , if you wished to discuss the doctrinal aspect of the thread -you would post a new thread in your Forum with a link to to said thread in the forum you posted. ON the surface this seems discriminatory--But in fact, it is to provide you with the the relief from the situation you were complaining about below

"it rains on ythe Just and the unjust alike" Same with any natural phenomenon. GOd may very well have given specific revelation to individuls I remember seeing that there was one weather analyst who was warning for a week before the storm hit EXACTLY what was going to happen and he was ignored So GOD did give warning through a weather analyst (and who better to speak about weather.) I support spritual revelation belive in it--BUt we don't live in a vacuum. If you've been dicussing for generations about what would happen when the "Big ONE" hit NO. and you see the 'big one' headed your way and don't spring into action -can't lay that on GOD. He did warn by giving the men who needed the knowledge about the levee system the ability to find the facts and figures and act on them. The fact that said Men chose to ignore said facts isn't God's fault,

Okay Now I've had enough. Not of the discussions Not of the disagreements not of the diversity of opinion BUT it has become clear that Mike suffers from a severe case of VPW/LCM wanna-be In these paragraphs he has made it clear that his purpose at greasespot is to turn it into an on-line PFAL I'm contacting PAW (something I never do about other posters) I am making the following proposal Since the great strength of This site is the freedom to post as we will, discuss as we will, believe as we will To oust Mike would go against the grain of what we believe. THerefore I propose that a new Forum be created TITLE "Learning the Truths about PFAL" with the disclamer that the cafe staff neither supports or endorse the ideas presented there There and only there will MIke be allowedd to post--to his hearts content. Anyone can pop in to read or to comment but Mike has the authority to make them leave HIS forum THat way MIke can have his soapbox-declaim to his hearts content, amd have commerce with his fellow believers. In addition to the obvious benefits to those who disagree with him--there would be a benefit to those who are on the fence about TWI, offshoots, PFAL. They could compare the two philosophies side be side--the freewheeling cafe and the controlled private dining area off the kitchen I see this as a win win for all

\I have checked them out--for many years before I decided to join Allan dear, there are hundreds of anti Mormon sites because there are hundreds of thousands of LDS world wide. Therefore there is a higher percentage of the dissatisfied. Besides numbers aren't what determine the rightness or wrongness of doctrine. Christ had only 12 disciples Yup there are bad people in the LDS church, adulterers, rapists, child molesters, killers, thieves, liars--every kind of person--but that is true of every other belief system on the face of the earth. What I am discussing here isn't the belief system, the amount of people who adhere to it, or the number of people who fall short of it. I'm not discussing the doctrine per se... What I am discussing is the foundation used by Mike, yourself and others to maintain that VPW and TWI etal is inherently correct and the rest of us are inherently wrong. I am trying to get you all to see that the values, logic, feelings, emotions, and proofs that you bring to the table on your side are EXACTLY the same as the rest of us bring to our sides. When all is said and done it comes down to the faith, and the witness of Christ in a persons life. I have absoloutely no problem in stating my beliefs and why I believe it (I guess you all figured that out by now, Right?? ) I enjoy a good discussion and exchange of ideas. Most of us do or we wouldn't be here. It's not the sharing of ideas that bothers me It is the holier-than-thou, kick-them-in-the-face, sanctimonious superiority that you and MIke and others here exhibit toward the rest of us. I am willing to grant right here and now you probably don't intend to be that way, or then again maybe you do, either way it is highly annoying--SO PLEEASE STOP with the attitude that's all I'm saying, and IMO it's what everyone else is trying to say too

I haven't had any problem with Sears- But Aspire VISa That's a whole other story THey hold checks and delay applying them Their phone bank in somewhere in India THEy charge you to make an on line payment,. So you not only pay the bill but have to pay for the priviledge of paying GRRRRRRRRRRRRR

The Book of Mormon is a companion to the Bible Joseph Smith received the restored gospel There are other plates-not yet revealed-that will be revealed in the fullness of time Joseph Smith was God's prophet THe BOM retores many plain and precious truths lost to mankind Service is important in any CHristian walk whether LDS or not NO LDS person who truly inderstands the message of the BOM wouod ever claim this The gold and brass plates contained information garnered by revelation preserved for our mastering ================================================================================ === Mike, Allan and company I use these parallels--not to start a doctrinal thread but to point out that the same claims the same process', the same proofs. that you claim as incontrovertable where VPW is concerned while simultaneously deriding them as impossible where Joseph Smith, the BOM and the LDS Church are concerned. As I said, this isn't about doctrine but take a look at your logic. Plates can't be preserved for Joseph Smith's arrival but revelation for 2000 years can be retained for VPW?? MIke can have visions of Christ with a PFAL book, but Joseph Smith never had a vision in the sacred grove??? VPW's work is the only way we can hear God's word- but teaching the BOM expands and elaborates on the truths of the Bible is fiction??? I don't expect you to run out and join the LDS church or any church because of what I or others post, I don't demand that you agree with me or others doctrrinally--But if you are going to decry the claims of the LDS (or any faith ) for what they profess to have recieved from God, at least hold the same critical light to your own efforts.

Actually it's worth a great deal Thank You And while I disagree with much you still hold dear-- I do admire that you have the courage of your convictions

AH HA So a tornado swept through and took all the snow away--wonder how he missed that ???? :mellow: I know I advocated this position-I was trying for the "benefit of a doubt" scenario--But I know when it is time for MEA CULPA I was Wrong I was Wrong SAD but still wrong

I experienced the "trickle down" effect of LCM first hand. Have continued to watch and read over the years about his actions. LCM is what and who is is Either he has changed --in which case IMO he would have no desire to return to TWI, which would be as a dog returning to it's vomit Or he hasn't ---in which case his return to TWI would be somthing he is either a) working behind the scenes for or b] actively pushing for One could argue that he has changed and wishes to change TWI for the better--IF this were true present leadership would not let him near with a 10 foot pole, having no desire to kill the goose with the golden egg. If they allow him back it will be with the understanding that the status quo remain, and there be no retaliation against them. If LCM were to agree to the terms regarding the maintaining of the status quo--it would mean he hadn't changed. And the LCM of my nightmares might bide his time, but "revenge is a dish best served cold. I agree that my comments are highly negative --but then I've always maintained that the reason lying is such a popular pastime is because the truth is often negative and unpleasant both to the speaker and the recipient of same.

What if they gave a war and nobody came?

LDS Are like anyone else --sometimes we blow it But we are exhorted to be loving , kind, supportive and of service to everyone, not only fellow LDS I am glad that so many of you have had such good experiences with my fellow LDS I am glad to have you as friends even though we have never met (except for CW and Digi) I want it known that LDS are just as happy to report their enriching and happy experiences with non LDS as you are to report your experiences

So Wordwolf if I understand correctly-- He didn't notice that there was no snow on the ground when he sallied forth the Next day??? I mean, IF I thought there was a blizzard raging outside, I would have my Parka, and Gloves and Mukluks on to go out --I would then immediately notice that it was not snowing but warm when I walked outside --if for no other reason than from the resulting heat exhaustion engendered by the clothes I was wearing, I don't know, maybe it's a gender thing :lol:

Waves of nausea at the thought---- Fortunately , It will never happen He has been humiliated Donna and Rosie have rubbed his face in it- not to mention those of us here at GS LCM's return would begin a massive purge of any and all even remotely suspected of having viewed , or Heaven forbid, posted here Then it would be payback time for Rosie, Donna, and those persons of Leadership that heve kept him away from the banquet these many years. Not to mention those who insisted on his resignaiton for the good of the ministry in the first place. In LCM think TWI is his-- in the same way that the clothes I'm wearing are mine What was his was 'stolen" if he returns the 'thieves' will be punished --count on it As Michael Corleone pointed out in Godfather III "it's all business" as he systematically wiped out every single person who had ever crossed him or his family. LCM would do no less

I don't think he underestimated them. If you underestimate someone, or a group of someones, they don't really register on your radar --good or bad--- But Women registered on VPW's radar--they registered constantly --and he was constantly trying to pigeon hole them-- hence the name calling, manipulative, liars, hence the feeling they must be controlled--hence the feeling they were inferior to God's plan 'There aren't going to be any women around when I get the holy spirit.' Because he both hated and feared them. He was constantly afraid they would reveal him, (they are liars) they would undo him (they are manipulators) they would outshine him(they must be controlled) The one women he does give some credit to he later slams for leaving the "ministry" So why the credit in the first place??? MY HUNCH is that a lot of people knew about those sessions, a lot of people knew what she taught, a lot of people knew her--there were witnesses--not as easy to claim as his, HER teachings. But in the end he denigrated her along with the rest of my gender. No one spends as much time and energy running down a gruop of people , if they are indifferent to them, as VPW did with women IMO it was HATE Understanding that my view is tempered by a) my gender and B) my TWI experience

I just LOVE happy beginnings!!! :D

It was all about POWER and HATE It took me a long time to figure it out-- Didn't really crystalize until this thread VPW didn't have the fame and success he felt was his due, and what he felt was his "due" was grossly exagerated in his own mind... ... Even after TWI was growing and he wes revered as "the teacher" It still wasn''t as much as he felt was his due. He was constantly name droppping, constantly inflating his own importance ie.-going to one of the inumerable inagural balls in Washington DC became "I was invited to THE inagural ball" I have never heard much about his parents--or if I did it was so little and so ubiquetous that it didn't register I think above all VPW was a man who HATED women. He believed that women were a millstone around a man's neck. They were not to be trusted, liars, maniplators, etc. that had to be controlled. The underlying psychology for these beliefs will never be known but I suspect that his mother was very domineering. [At least that is my attempt at pop psychology for the evening] :blink: What he did to women was okay because they "deserved" it as punishment for their "sins" . Sins which existed in VPW 's twisted thought processes. No wonder he surrounded himself with men who thought like him, no wonder domestic abuse and abuse of others was so prevalent in TWI. If you were female you were fair game, and if you were a man who supported and sustained women you were perceived as less of a man for doing so. Couple this with your very salvation being measured by how well you followed "Dr's" words and you had a cocktail tailor made for not only abuse on a grand scale but the perpetuation of same.