templelady

There are assumptions being made here 1- since being on the land was the reason we have on the printed page it must be the only reason 2- since it isn't said, again on the printed page, they were given a chance to "turn to him" they must not have been Actually the point was that just because there were no crimes spelled out does not mean no crimes were committed -a perfectly valid argument I think it all stems from you original perception of God Assume for the moment God exists You can proceed with the assumption that He is fair, just, and loving and therefore what He does will be fair, just and loving, even if all the wherefores and whereas aren't spelled out Or you can proceed from the position that God is a slippery little character whose methods and motivations are suspect at best and therefore all his actions must be highly scrutinized since He's probably not on your side really Then there are the degrees between these viewpoints The problem appears to be not so much what His actual motivations were as opposed to the motivations assigned to him by the observer

Whether a thing "makes sense" is a highly subjective call. What makes sense to one person may make no sense to another--so to equate "not provable" [and this leaves the whole issue of what constitutes proof wide open] to "makes sense" on a unilateral basis is a rather narrow interpretation

That's it in a nutshell--not only for TWI/ cults but for most other destructive behaviors , drugs, alcohol etc. If you are needy in any of those areas you are vulnerable--I don't mean just a bad day --but actually feel that one of those areas is totally missing from your life on a constant basis. If you are needy in two of those areas you are ripe for the picking and if you are needy in three of those areas you are hooked well and good, And after being hooked--are you really going to willingly escape back to the "Neediness" of the past??? It isn't that you don't hear the dissonance it's just that having been without music for so long in your life--any music is welcome.

Actually I would disagree with you on this pointBecause this point is absolutely true -assuming of course that you were really repentant And on this you are wrong--That is why Jesus Christ went through it all -so we could "gain" if you will eternal salvation.Which ultimately just goes to show that even TWI, with all its faults , couldn't keep that light under a bushel. But As for the rest I understand exactly what you are saying CW

I think that is what the parable of the bad tree bearing bad fruit and the good tree bearing good fruit was all about. It's not that we can't do good if we do bad--Because we can --It's if we consistently choose the bad knowing it is bad that that eventually creates the inability to do good

I'm putting this here although it had it's start in the doctrinal forum. I'm really passionate about my beliefs when it Comes to God and Jesus Christ. This last week I slipped over the line (as Mark so graciously pointed out --thanks Mark) I became guilty of personally attacking posters that have I deep theological differences with The sad thing is that I know better--I know the rules here--I know what it is to be attacked and saddest of all the posters I attacked - specifically Garth and LG-- are persons I have come to respect over the years. I may not agree with all they say but I have always admired their conviction and clarity of thought. So to you two especially, and to anyone else that I have offended--I want to say I am sorry--Your cyberspace tresence in my life is something I have come to cherish, GSC is as valuable to me in may ways as my "real time" friendships. Please forgive me for my hasty words and In-your-face attitude

Mad --I blow my cork frequently--not as much as I used to--but often enough. Hate-- Digi is right-- hate takes up way too much energy Hate is more than emotion Hate is a constant state of being-- When you hate the object of your hatred becomes your focus--your mind swirls with vengeance , And "if I'd only said". etc etc etc. I don't hate anymore not Rich Urquhart not my ex not any of them. It Just took to much out of me as a person. Do memories of the bad still make me mad at times (sorry for the rhyming) You betcha but I put it aside as quick as I can--cause dwelling on the wrongs done creates Pity party creates hate-saps energy and enjoyment of life.

Yup Being wrong isn't the problem--never was--it's refusing to change after figuring out you are wrong that is the problem--that pride thing doncha know

Belle I don't equate bad with Evil Bad means you break the rules--Evil is something more--it is a premeditation to commit wrong acts with the express intent of causing harm. You can argue that adultery is premeditated but usually based on the assumption "no one will get hurt" Most Bad things people do are committed with a lack of foresight as to the consequences as opposed to malicious intent to harm

Something has been nagging at the vback of my mind In what way were they doing acts contrary to the Will of God, other than occupying the same land that Israel wanted back then? I DON'T KNOW But the conclusion that they were has far more substantiation based on the consequences than the conclusion that they were innocent of any wrongdoing. Just because a list of "crimes" is not spelled out does not mean no "crime" was committed. In fact, the logical assumption would be that crime was committed since there was "punishment". We make this same assuption every day Vis-a-vis prisoners in jaiL. granted there are instances where an innocent person is punished in our system, but God wouldn;t make mistakes.

A dishonorable Romulan ---sigh --at least its better than a Fernegi

Actually requiring devil spirit influence ?? (we'll leave possession part out 'cause I don;t think that possession is actually necessary to commit evil acts) That would be hatred --whether of self, others or things is immaterial--all evil has it's root in hatred of one form or another

Thank you GArth I have dropped shields and stopped altering the computer program to beat Kobiyashe Maru LOL

The spirit that which makes you you and comes from GOD is alvie after the physical body dies. At the ressurection that spirit will be reunited with a perfect physical body

But I do get it in a nutshell You don't like it that GOD, who is the creator and author of everything, gets to play by a set of rules of his own making --a set of rules that is different than the set of rules he makes for us. That's your prerogative But please stop telling the rest of us who believe that we are somehow less astute because we understands that GOD isn't required to adhere to "our rules" HE IS GOD -He isn't answerable to us for any reason --that is why He is GOD and We're not Now do you "Get it"?????

LG I can't help it if your definition of 'love" does not correlate with acceptance. Personally I would be hard put to envision any kind of love that did not include acceptance of the object of that love. The fact that you can, means that you look at the world differently than I do--but we already knew that, didn't we?

Okay... some of you here at GS believe that there is no God, that somehow or other, that you can't explain, something came out of nothing and here we are. You go on to complain that My God does not fit in your parameters as to how He should behave and demand that He must fit in your parameters in order to either a- exist or b- be worthy of worship. Since You don't believe He exists, you can't believe He through Jesus Christ created this world, and us and everything else on it, And since you don't believe Him as creator you don't acknowledge his ownership of this world and everything on it, therefore you can't accept that he a- has the right to lay down rules b- demand that His creations follow them. Much less that failure to follow said rules results in very unpleasant consequences I get it I really do YOU choose to believe we came from nothing, we return to nothing and in the space between the two you get to do what ever you decide is moral. I choose to believe that this world, in fact the entire universe, is God's and all I have I owe to him, and the least I can do on this earth is follow the rules He has laid down. In return I have eternity with Him and my loved ones. I look at the finiteness of your beliefs and thin "how sad" while you look at my beliefs and say "how foolish" There is no reconciliation of these two views that is possible

That worshipping other gods thing has to be right at the top of the list of WHAT NOT TO DO. To carry your logic further Why on earth would God shield people who pay homage to another god from the consequences of their actions?? I mean isn't that the job of the god they worship if, as LG maintains, that is what a loving god would do? Its seems to me that a lot o'people want to eat their cake and have it to They want a Loving and Accepting GOD who lets them do whatever they want when they want and then is to pretend that nothing at all is wrong-- Say that pretty much describes a whole segment of society today......... I begin to see where the problem lies

??????? Love is acceptance God loves/accepts us as we are Just because he Loves/accepts us does not mean that we don't face the consequence of our actions. Somehow someway the idea has come into being that because God loves/accepts us He is supposed to shield us from the consequences of our actions--it doesn't work that way. They were slain because THEY choose to commit acts contrary to the will of God. THEY choose to turn from him. Free agency was God''s greatest gift to us -- nowhere are we/they compelled to do what is right in God's eyes. God was very clear from the beginning that ignoring His precepts would result in, at the least, severance from Him and His kingdom with additional earthly consequences up to and including death. THEY choose to be disobedient.. THEY knew the rules they knew the consequences of not following the rules. THEIR punishment in no way correlates to whether God Loved/accepted them but rather the was result of THEIR disobedience.

It is a condition for not facing the consequences of Sin But it IS NOT a condition for being loved by God. You see we are having trouble even discussing this because in human terms consequences of sin = withholding/withdrawal of love MOST OF THE TIME It is hard for us to grasp the concept that it doesn't work that way with GOD because the Withdrawal/withholding of love is one of the consequences on an earthly plane that we fear the most as well as being one of our most powerful weapons in controlling the actions of others.

But God does unconditionally accept everyone--All can repent and once they have repented they are again partakers of the blessings of God since his Love has never been withdrawn. Approval and love are not the same thing with God but they too often are with man

Lindyhopper You are giving consequences of bad behavior Still haven't showed me where GOD says "I don;t Love You" "I am not your creator" The consequences in the Old Testament were not some out of the blue surprise-- Humankind knew what they were supposed to be doing and chose not to-- Experiencing the consequences of bad behavior does not indicate love has been withdrawn. God experiences great pain when his children stray but being just he cannot spare them the consequences of their behavior.

My all time favorite: Animals whose eyes "glow" red are really demons In fact it is a scientific anomaly you see in photos when you get" red Eye" as well as when you are at a certain angle looking at an animal "Light when shone from a certain angle gets reflected from the choroid [the layer of the eye behind the retina that contains major blood vessels] and therefore appears red." Between demon possessed animals and stringing chairs we were having Way too much FUN--NOT!!

Yeah when the voice in my head was screming "Get out , Get out" and I went ahead and married my second husband--an occassion celebrated by TWI--it was all down hill from there

I think the fairer question would be for you to give me and example in the Bible where God said to one of his children "I hate You"(you as the individual not the behavior)" "You're not my Child" (I am not your creator) I t doesn't happen -but is sure does here on the earthly plain