templelady

Jesus in not GOD in that he is not Heavenly Father Jesus is the creator of this world and Jehovah of the Old Testament

Okay crash course in LDS Theology--You want to debate its veracity --head for the doctrinal forum--it is offered here as an answer to the topic at hand Jesus Christ created the earth and everything on it at the Direction of Heavenly Father Jesus Christ is Jehovah of the Old Testament In order to try to get man to live according in a manner pleasing to Heavenly father Christ as Jehovah, among other things, sent a flood, rescued the children from Egypt, parted the red sea, gave commandments, destroyed cities, sent Prophets , etc, etc, etc all with poor to mixed results Finally, in a move that was preordained from the foundation of the earth as a last resort, Jesus Christ surrendered the power of his divinity and came to earth as mortal as we are. Any miracles he performed were through the power of Heavenly Father working through Him. At Gethsemane he took our sins upon himself. He sweated drops of blood the agony was so great. He then allowed himself to be captured, beaten and scourged as earthly punishment for those sins. At Golgotha there one act more necessary for Him to perform -To let himself die-to not call on Heavenly fathers angels, so that in dying he could break the bonds of death. He hangs on that cross and the dying of his body begins. He, created as a divine being who has never known the absence of Heavenly Fathers spirit , now feels that pain, the slipping away of his spirit from his body How else could he respond as that terrible loss overwhelmed Him but "My God, My GOd, Why hast thou forsaken ME??

I'm a glutton for punishment--but this must be an LCM era thing--how on earth does/did one manage that. I mean Joe believer is in the middle of manifesting and HQ switches to Interpretation does he stop in mid sentence????? Mid interpretation???

Okay for the sake of this topic, we'll stick to VPW's interpretation What exactly was Christ saved from????? In short VPW's interpretation makes no sense

Roalie RIvenbark stands on a dark Stage in the Way Auditorium saying "Hellloooo", Helllloooo" , is anybody here--Where is everyone?????!!????" the sound of her voice echoing back in the stillness.

Thais tired old chestnut-is one of the Wierwillites camps' favorite accusations. So for the umpteenth time I will try to explain making bad choices in the "here and now" and blaming those choices on what happened years ago in TWI is "blaming others" Factually recounting incidents, teachings, events, etc from TWI involvement is "putting the blame where it belongs" While "Putting the blame where it belongs" MAY lead to "blaming others" it usually doesn't. In fact, the more you sort out who is to "blame" for what the less likely you are to resort to "blaming others" since you quickly discover what you are accountable for.

Attention Way GB your security has been breached With Googe Earth on a computer Anyone can zoom in and can zoom out They are the "eyes in the sky" over New Knoxville Just think all us former TWIer's now can observe your "sacred' HQ when ever we wish!!!!!!!!!

And I think it is fear because they are really unsure of what they believe--there are doubts there. I get annoyed when people attack the LDS church with outright lies or half truths about what we teach. But If you want to tell me you don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God I have no problem with that. It doesn't affect what I believe one whit. But the simple phrase "I don't believe VPW, or PFAL, or the blue, brown orange book (pick one) sends SOME Wierwillites into a frenzy way out of proportion to what was said. Often the frenzy includes "shotgun" attacks of other posters and their beliefs without ever addressing the topic at hand. That is a fear response, and the fear IMO can only be that profound if they themselves have serious doubts as to their position

Snack plan What happens if the snacks I planned for are not snacks I'm still interested in I mean If I Plan KC Masterpiece barbecue Potato Chips by Frito Lay and in 17 months want Doritos and Salsa instead--what kind of contingency plan do I need. Do I need a mini fridge for the Klondike bars--unless I'm into Ben and Jerry's in 17 months And Soda what if I suddenly want orange juice instead-- I mean that snack thing is a really big deal fraught with pitfalls and last minute changes Sitting through classes is easy --considering what snacks I'll want 17 months from now is reaaaaallllllllyyyy hard

Thanks Dmiller--don't know why it went wacky on me

Sorry about the previous post no matter what I do it won't space or do HTML right--maybe a glitch in the Boards

When??? Please explain when and how I said that LDS do not have reverence for scripture--reverence is not the same as worship I know enough of the Mormon religion... well you who know "enough" first of all its not the Mormon religion --we don't worship Mormon- he was the compiler (not writer) of the Book of Mormon we are The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints or LDS As for the rest of this diatribe--half truths and outright distortions of truth do not the truth make. But you already know that--it's just the old way brain creeping to the fore. Since I no longer agree with TWI that puts me outside and fair game for any potshots you as a PFAL and VPW supporter cares to take Not agreeing with YOU does not a simpleton make nor does not sharing your beliefs make one antagonistic--It is you Allen who launch into diatribes and justifications while spewing your hatred of all who disagree with your viewpoint all over the boards. If it was just me who found you objectionable it would be one thing--but posters who I don't agree with on many points find you just as objectionable that should tell you something--and no it is not the message you carry that is the problem it is the attitude with which you carry it Denigrating things to a personal level is indeed sad So when do YOU plan to stop

I see it now I see it in a vision------------ A believer lends his son money to go to business school --the kid pays that off and dad cosigns for a loan so kid can start business . Kid goes on to found a multi million dollar corporation borrowing and lending huge sums to expand etc. Kid decides "why send all that money to TWI HQ -I'll form my own ministry and collect money for me as he stands in his squash outfit having just come off the court vision fades to a blurred stage with a large pulsating muticolored amoeba shape on the back wall that's it !! their afraid if you become successful you'll find you don't need them after all

the one thing guaranteed to anger a Weirwillite is "ignore" him.

There's the key--number one technique, in brainwashing, deprogramming, eliciting information, crfeating subservience Get the person exhausted and keep them that way--exhausted people/bodies revert to primal survival mode--only those things necessary for life are put to the front-- there is no time or energy for sitting and pondering, and analyzing the more esoteric

Mark based on your and Wordwolfs posts I can only assume that Allan has again reverted to character. Thank you both for your support it is much appreciated As for worshipping scripture--it is a trap that is all to easily fallen into -not just in TWI who codified it --but you find it in other faiths as well. It is much easier to confine oneself to the pages of a book then to put the book down and go out and live the principles espoused in said scriptures on a daily basis. Scripture worship is the venue of those who want the blessings and rewards of life without getting their hands too dirty by working at it

I didn't pop put of the blue as you so quaintly put it-- Just happened to log on to GS after you fired your first salvo And as for what the LDS have reverence for and in what degree- I am quite well aware of since I happen to be LDS Since you're not-perhaps you need to refrain from comment on what you again have demonstrated you know very little if anything about

Operating Believing I operate my vacuum cleaner My toothbrush my electric razor my toaster and a host of other appliances But I have never "operated" believing because it is is just what your mind does when it thinks. It can be happy or sad, positive or negative but it is just doing what a brain does

Mr O'Mally you have such a way with words :) That about says it all- I was on the quest to find out why my life had been one disaster after another-it was a time of facing the past and dealing with it on all levels- Waydale was supposed to be a quick pit stop on the journey Instead I figured out that my involvement with TWI was a compilation of all the bad choices for all the wrong reasons I had made throughout my life. Once the memories came flooding back, I could see where I had misstepped--then came the even bigger challenge of unlearning the bad and building on the good and starting to rewally feel good about myself. The journey continues , I keep coming back here because the application of truth in ones life is a never ending journey

Yeah they put total emphasis on the Bible and then by extrapolation the books of Piffle etc ad infinitum ad nauseum. And before I get questions about the Book of Mormon--let me say --yes we are exhorted to read it , along with the Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price and The Bible in the LDS church. But only because these books provide the blueprint of what we should be doing--They are not worshipped, they are not used as cattle prods to keep us in bondage (which is how TWI used the Bible) but merely the foundation for our taking the responsibility for right choices in our lives ands walk in Christ's footsteps.

The scary thing about TWI is how they take perfectly good scriptural concepts and spin them into a frenzy of misleading dogma. And then we have from the book of Mark 25] And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years, [26] And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse, [27] When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment. [28] For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole. [29] And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague And from that TWI spins to The woman would have been aware of Jesus’ ministry…had a great need and burning desire to be healed. She also had great mental distress because women with an issue of blood were considered unclean…. She continued to grow worse. Despite her physical weakness she kept pressing forward and doing the best she knew to do. This became her habit, her heart. Without funds, but not believing. She could have made excuses to not consider that this was her opportunity to be delivered. She was weak and sick but did not make excuses to stay home feeling sorry for herself. Look at her positive, bold confession. She was believing to receive total deliverance…. Instead of giving way to negative thoughts that would have undermined her believing, she confessed health and wholeness. Her thoughts were on the solution, not her problem. She kept saying to herself, the promise that she would be whole if she but touched his garment. The gospels do not say the woman was quoting scripture to herself, but they do indicate that she was repeating to herself what she believed God was making available to her…. It has to be true folks because we all know that those steadfast standing members of the Household of GOD do not ever and I mean Never indulge in Private Interpretation..right???

LDS Theology says The Comforter/Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit is our indwelling connection to Christ who is our connection to Heavenly Father. So Christ is with us in the sense of having the Holy Ghost. Through that connection the manifestations are operated and his commandments revealed. Thus the work he desires to have done here on earth is done. But Jesus Christ is not physically here on earth. Consider Him as the architect, The Holy Ghost is the Contractor and those who believe the subcontractors.

I see a deeper subtext here--could ":everybody will listen to me" actually have had another part to it?? a part that goes "because nobody listens to me now???"" Was all the "outreach" an attempt to serve or an attempt to find a group of listeners who didn't, in short order, find the snake -oil salesmen in VPWs character?

Hmmmmm. as a teetotaler now I still remember the taste of a good Framboise. I propose that we take all said tapes, celebrate uncle harry day and use the fire to melt cheese for fondue--A good all purpose cold weather treat, goes well with everything. rules 1 drink whenever the fire goes pop 1 drink when ever the cheese "strings' attach to your chin 1 drink whenever the logs shift 2 drinks when a bite of fondue ends up in the fire drain the glass if anyone actually watches a tape before adding it to the fondue warmer

Actually it does-failure to live up to that expectation in no way negates the expectation I guess that depends on how you interpret those verses (interpretation in and of itself is not bad no matter what piffle said ) If you look at them in the sense pf "I'm doing this so that they will be that nice to me in return" or if you look at them in the light of "no matter if they reciprocate or not that is how I must treat them"