templelady

The difference has impact only of the difference makes someone reject Christ as his/her savior

I mean can you think of anything more appalling than for a Christian to just believe in Jesus CHRIST???? I mean what is Christianity coming to if we all go around believing "Just" in Jesus Christ But then , I'm forgetting VPW and LCM --Lucky ME

I guess this is the kinder gentler TWI in action--YOu don't have to hear them yell while dodging Spit!! WOnder how fast I can get kicked off HMMMMMMMM

4:30 pm on a Friday night-dinner to be made, kids with homework, laundry to be done after a long day at work and the phone rings. TC (that's HFC in the later days) "Mo I need you to bake three dozen cookies for the meeting tonight (one I wasn't allowed to attend!) and have them at the Limb (8 miles away through rush hour traffic) by 6 pm tonight" ME "it's 4:30 pm, there is no way I can get that done , and you know it, you'll have to call someone else, or swing by Safeway" TC " You need to adjust your attitude, this is an opportunity for you to be BLESSED by blessing the household, you should be excited to have such an opportunity" MO " If you want home baked cookies Call the day before, I have to go, dinner is burning" And I stuck it out for 6 more years-- <_< <_<

WD is a professional at the game of semantics. Throwing synonyms right and left, WD writes paragraphs that leave no doubt as to his position and feelings. However, beware if you are foolish enough to distill his position down to a few explanatory sentences. Use one word not in his posts and you get accused of "making things up" and "I never said that" Just as a person who says "Don't expect me to cook breakfast for you again in this lifetime" Could argue that they never ACTUALLY SAID "I'll never cook breakfast for you again" and be correct as to the actual wording--the meaning remains loud and clear.

Oaks At least we agree on the false part

My point exactly :) WD no one has ever said that there wasn't a majority bias here that is anti TWI. The issue was that because of that bias , you, and others who in some measure or other support TWI, were being deliberately targeted in some sort of "flame war", for lack of a better phrase. Realistically, if you post pro sentiments on a site that is basically anti , on whatever subject or site, you can not justifiably, IMO, claim surprise or indignation when the antis respond with vehemence

Since VPW never claimed he was a prophet he can't be labeled a false one--he is however guilty of false teaching and application that said, it is not impossible for one to gain some good from a false teacher if one obtains the truth that is mixed with the fiction. It can be argued, and correctly, that one who never knew the Bible at all, gained much good be being introduced to it by VPW. It can be further argues, that the Holy Ghost, can then influence the person, newly enlightened, so that they learn correctly from the Bible. Case in point--I've always maintained that VPW's biggest error was telling us to Study and work the word for ourselves-- I and many others did just that and departed TWI as a result of what we learned

*

But we were not taught ONLY teachings that VPW got from others--He threw a good deal of his own opinion and ideas into the mix. which means arguing that since he plagiarized he wasn't the one who was responsible for the wrong things taught falls short of the mark, even more so if you consider he had some obligation to ascertain if the plagiarized works he taught were right Ummm---what I actually was asking is where the idea he was a prophet came from--And expanded on that by pointing out that VPW never, to the best of my knowledge made such a claim. As to whether or not he was in fact a prophet or a even false one--I never specifically addressed that issue since I am still waiting to find out if he ever made such a claim

It was pointed out on another thread that Sometimes I as the "token LDS" poster don't get a level playing field either. So I had to consider what constitutes a level playing field here at the cafe Its not the mounds of opinion that make the playing field uneven, you just walk around those--its the withdrawing of posting different opinions that leaves the field uneven with the resulting potholes, caused by their absence, waiting to break the legs of the unwary

RIchard Boone (alltime bad guy) "I thought you were dead" John WAyne "not, hardly" Rowdy Rodney Piper "I came to chew bubble gum and Kick A**and I'm fresh out of bubble gum"

Not everything that came out of VPW's mouth was a quote from someone else- And you can't hold the authors of the original work accountable from the extrapolations that came as a result of VPW reading, hearing and then "researching" them Second I never heard that he was a prophet--The Man of God for our Day and Time, Our Father in the Word, yes, but never that he was a prophet. That he received revelation yes, that he received a word of prophecy yes, But never a Prophet. Receiving a word of Prophecy does not a "Prophet" make "A Prophet is called by God to be a prophet --even Weirwille to the best of my knowledge never made the claim --He said that he was called to Teach the Word as it had not been taught since the first century church

OH MY GOSH !!!! I didn't even look here on my birthday--I usually don't come to the Open forum very often All these lovely messages They just made my whole day (even If I am a month Late ) THANK YOU EVERYONE

Can you imagine yourself to be the nun that is sitting at her desk grading these papers all the while trying to keep a straight face and maintain her composure! PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO THE WORDING AND SPELLING. IF YOU KNOW THE BIBLE EVEN A LITTLE, YOU'LL FIND THIS HILARIOUS! IT COMES FROM A CATHOLIC ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TEST KIDS WERE ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS. THE FOLLOWING STATEMENTS ABOUT THE BIBLE WERE WRITTEN BY CHILDREN. THEY HAVE NOT BEEN RETOUCHED OR CORRECTED. INCORRECT SPELLING HAS BEEN LEFT IN. 1. IN THE FIRST BOOK OF THE BIBLE, GUINESSIS. GOD GOT TIRED OF CREATING THE WORLD SO HE TOOK THE SABBATH OFF. 2. ADAM AND EVE WERE CREATED FROM AN APPLE TREE. NOAH'S WIFE WAS JOAN OF ARK. NOAH BUILT AND ARK AND THE ANIMALS CAME ON IN PEARS. 3. LOTS WIFE WAS A PILLAR OF SALT DURING THE DAY, BUT A BALL OF FIRE DURING THE NIGHT. 4. THE JEWS WERE A PROUD PEOPLE AND THROUGHOUT HISTORY THEY HAD TROUBLE WITH UNSYMPATHETIC GENITALS. 5. SAMPSON WAS A STRONGMAN WHO LET HIMSELF BE LED ASTRAY BY A JEZEBEL LIKE DELILAH. 6. SAMSON SLAYED THE PHILISTINES WITH THE AXE OF THE APOSTLES. 7. MOSES LED THE JEWS TO THE RED SEA WHERE THEY MADE UNLEAVENED BREAD WHICH IS BREAD WITHOUT ANY INGREDIENTS. 8, THE EGYPTIANS WERE ALL DROWNED IN THE DESSERT. AFTERWARDS, MOSES WENT UP TO MOUNT CYANIDE TO GET THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. 9. THE FIRST COMMANDMENTS WAS WHEN EVE TOLD ADAM TO EAT THE APPLE. 10. THE SEVENTH COMMANDMENT IS THOU SHALT NOT ADMIT ADULTERY. 11. MOSES DIED BEFORE HE EVER REACHED CANADA. THEN JOSHUA LED THE HEBREWS IN THE BATTLE OF GERITOL. 12. THE GREATEST MIRICLE IN THE BIBLE IS WHEN JOSHUA TOLD HIS SON TO STAND STILL AND HE OBEYED HIM. 13. DAVID WAS A HEBREW KING WHO WAS SKILLED AT PLAYING THE LIAR. HE FOUGHT THE FINKELSTEINS, A RACE OF PEOPLE WHO LIVED IN BIBLICAL TIMES. 14. SOLOMON, ONE OF DAVIDS SONS, HAD 300 WIVES AND 700 PORCUPINES. 15. WHEN MARY HEARD SHE WAS THE MOTHER OF JESUS, SHE SANG THE MAGNA CARTA. 16. WHEN THE THREE WISE GUYS FROM THE EAST SIDE ARRIVED THEY FOUND JESUS IN THE MANAGER. 17. JESUS WAS BORN BECAUSE MARY HAD AN IMMACULATE CONTRAPTION. 18. ST. JOHN THE BLACKSMITH DUMPED WATER ON HIS HEAD. 19. JESUS ENUNCIATED THE GOLDEN RULE, WHICH SAYS TO DO UNTO OTHERS BEFORE THEY DO ONE TO YOU. HE ALSO EXPLAINED A MAN DOTH NOT LIVE BY SWEAT ALONE. 20. IT WAS A MIRICLE WHEN JESUS ROSE FROM THE DEAD AND MANAGED TO GET THE TOMBSTONE OFF THE ENTRANCE. 21. THE PEOPLE WHO FOLLOWED THE LORD WERE CALLED THE 12 DECIBELS. 22. THE EPISTELS WERE THE WIVES OF THE APOSTLES. 23. ONE OF THE OPPOSSUMS WAS ST. MATTHEW WHO WAS ALSO A TAXIMAN. 24. ST. PAUL CAVORTED TO CHRISTIANITY, HE PREACHED HOLY ACRIMONY WHICH IS ANOTHER NAME FOR MARRAIGE. 25. CHRISTIANS HAVE ONLY ONE SPOUSE. THIS IS CALLED MONOTONY.

One day while still struggling with what had been done to my children, In turned to a dear friend, also LDS and said, "I CAN FORGIVE WHAT WAS DONE TO ME, BUT FORGIVING WHAT HAPPENED TO MY CHILDREN IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE EVEN THOUGH i KEEP TRYING SO HARD" She looked at me and said "we are required to forgive others for what they have done to us, you aren't the one who can forgive them for what they did to others, you don't have that right -- that's your children's choice"

Just exactly how many "foundations" does it take to prop TWI up???? Or is this like a mid-eastern tell where the new foundation is laid on the foundation of the old, building up layer by crumbling layer until the site is abandoned all together??? IMO TWI would be further along if they scrapped the whole notion of a new Foundational class--and pulled out the original PFAL material--gave credit where credit was due and started with the original foundation. Who knows maybe by starting things again with the knowledge they should have gained of what not to do they may breath life into the old girl yet

I understand where ex10 is coming from--the amount of forgiveness I am willing to grant as stated above was a long time coming--Years and years--and there are still days when I t all comes rushing back--and well I start over again, Each one of us has certain things that are more hurtful than they are to other people-- each one of us needs their own time frame to come to the point of forgiveness--and I would say that ex10 working as she does with other victims, has put her anger, hurt, rage to excellent use. Ultimately it is between you and the person in the mirror and no one should feel lessened because they are running their train on a different timetable.

I remember someone in the Corps talking about that from when she first went WOW. That was about 1984 or so when she was telling it. By 1982 when I joined--oops sorry took PFAL-- that was already a thing of the past--never knew anytime when that would have been allowed

What I mean when I say I forgive When I say my prayers at night I have a little section that goes something like this Heavenly Father, don't hold my enemies sins against them when they stand before you, please make sure they have good food, a warm dry place to live and good clothing Note what I don't say I don't say they are absolved from what they did I don't say I'll ever trust them I don't say that they should not face the legal penalties, if any, their actions require I don't say what they did was alright I don't say that I'm not "displeased" with what they did even today I ask that when all is said and done, and we all face Heavenly Father- that on the list of the sins imputed to them the ones toward me not be included. As ye forgive also shall ye be forgiven

Yes but a civilized one

That's right it has nothing to do with it--It isn't about endorsing my belief system, since I think I am the only LDS person on the boards if it were about that I wouldn't ever "talk" to anyone here--- its about dealing with others respectfully SO since it was a few pages back and an answer to another question--it becomes invalid a few pages farther along in another discussion--??? You're right you didnt use those exact words however those who do not espouse the view that they are, like me, are told If you said it is not an exact quote from the Bible you would be correct--however the CONCEPT is definitely from the Bible Matthew 19:19 Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself Matthew 22:39 Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself Mark 12:31Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself Romans 13:9 Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself In short you make allegations and fabrications by subtle use of wording over several posts, leaving no doubts in anyone's mind as to what you are saying and espousing and then when the reader of said posts distills your beliefs into a few sentences--you assume the mantle of wounded innocence with "I never said that". Thou learned well at the feet of VPW, hoppergrass

You bet, when someone tells me what happened to my family in the TWI either 1) didn't happen or 2) wasn't that bad I have every right to "Pick it apart". That does not translate into not believing that things might have been different for others, a distinction obviously lost on you you say this another of my untruthful fabrications thereby once more declaring that what I have related happened to me in TWI is not true and I refer to an earlier post of yours It is well documented here ,geese there have been several threads on where book by book the teaching In PFAL came from. This was not any big revelation to me but to some it is I suppose. If one would choose to hold on to something they learned in PFAL wouldn't it be correct to say they were holding on to BG Leonard or Charles Welch or Kenyon's teaching ,not VP Wierwille. On one thread the work was plagiarized and wasn't his teaching on the other thread we were now to move beyond his teaching(which wasn't his teaching) that we were taught by a false prophet. If VP plagiarized others work then we were taught by them. If we were taught by a false prophet then that would rule out Kenyon Leonard or Welch. Seems it cant work both ways. Convoluted though this paragraph appears on first glance --the message is clear- VPW taught the truth, if he plagiarized it it's still the truth because the men he plagiarized it from taught the truth--meanwhile we just avoid the whole topic of plagiarism per se How disingenuous of you to try at this late stage to say that this is not about TWI and PFAL when your whole point for a multitude of posts has been that that is exactly what it is about and how persecuted you are whenever you stick up for the truth you claim is found in TWI I have no problem admitting several things, 1) not everyone in TWI had a negative experience, 2) Some people actually found good in the experience 3) many People in TWi are seekers of truth. Unlike you who must brand those whose experiences and perceptions are different than yours liars, claim they don't seek after the truth, that their experiences are fabrication, and the most outrageous that you know what others are thinking and what they will do, all the while complaining how these same people ill treat you Ever heard of the golden rule??? maybe you should try not calling people liars, not declaring they don't seek after truth, and try asking what they think or do first instead of deciding that you know everything--who knows you might actually get positive feedback As it is the feeling I get after your posts and the the feeling I got after a reproof session with the Limb coordinator are about even

REALLY???And this is the level playing field you keep complaining we don't give you?? A playing field where not only do you not have to answer questions but you also get to decide what we thinking and what we will do. Pretty presumptuous on your part to decide that you know what is going on in my brain--especially when what you "know" is so far off the mark You sanctimonious self righteous BIGOT How DARE you presume that just because someone does not agree with your theological position that they are not seeking after truth?? How dare you to Say someone is not seeking to know GOD just because they do not wholeheartedly embrace TWI and PFAL??? You whine about a level playing field. You might find the playing field More level if you came off the Ivory pedestal that you stand on looking down at the rest of us with so much disdain

Johnny Lingo says it well