templelady

TROLL ALERT

Ah the predictability of the TWI brained--If it doesn't fit our dogma that it shouldn't be in the Bible. I mean since "we" are right and the rest of the world wrong-any scripture that doesn't agree with us must be, a figure of speech indecipherable except for those in the know, wrong, translated wrongly, clear words have been substituted for unclear words ...la da dee la da dum And the beat goes on.....

CW you can't reason with someone who refuses to acknowledge that they MIGHT be working from a faulty knowledge base. When you read posts from persons that are so disorganized in their thought processes, that they are in some parts almost illegible in terms of understanding them, it is time to let them paddle their little boat in thelr little pond all by themselves

HUH????? But that is exactly what PFAL is touted as-- a place for beginners to start. Can it be that that PFAL is so full of error, and no way to separate the error out unless you are a fairly good researcher already, that it is useless as a teaching tool for new believers or those seeking whether to believe or not???? It's a miracle!!!!!! --we finally have confirmation that PFAL is not what it is cracked up to be. {waiting for the firestorm, of "I didn't say that, mean that, yada yada yada}

Okay, I brought my hammock, also thre buckets of fried chicken--looks like we are goingto be awhile. Back to topic-- still waiting for verse that says we are righteous even if we sin ]"hath any inheritance in", rather than just "inherit". PLEEAASSE--there isn't an iota of difference either you inherit or you don't--if you have an inheritance you inherit, if you don't have an inheritance you don't I mean, we are talking about losing inheritance for all eternity? Yep we are and it sure is I'm not going into LDS theology here because that's not necessary to the conversation, but I can say, I am thankful to be LDS where these questions are answered

Do you have any comprehension of the time and effort that went into making just one scroll. Much less making the brushes and ink then the hand lettering??? Ordinary people probably never held a scroll in their lives--at best they saw the Torah being read from on the sabbath. You make it sound like there were libraries in everyone's home and they were all literate Please do some research before spouting

My understandig is that the return is signless in the sense, that there will not be an anouncement along the lines of At 4:00PM GMT Sunday June 13 3745 AD Jesus Christ will be returing to to earth at Kirkland Missouri SO it's like a thief because one day there he will be no warning, no fanfare, just there

Isn't it possible that we don't understand it all? Some people do understand it but I'm not derailing this thread to go there Does "shall not inherit the kingdom of God" have to equal "going to hell?" NOPE

Nope

Scripture verse please Not talking about any one person or group of people just asking for a scripture that contradicts the above scripture

apples and oranges One we are talking about GOD killing people, who he has warned he will do just that if they continue to behave in the manner they are and Two --we are talking about people dying as a result of illness, accident, or old age. We lost immortality when we left the Garden of Eden --death is part of life.

1st Corinthians 6 [9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, [10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. [11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. Were --past tense ye are washed --accomplished after "were" what we are waiting for is a verse which says after ye are washed you can be fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, abusers of themselves with mankind, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners, And still inherit the kingdom of GOD

I have a case of cold soda, can I come to the party too? Crystal clear to me cant find any exceptions either --but then we already know my beliefs are suspect

No one here has said it does (apple) no one has said that isn't true (orange) What is under discussion is the doctrine of perpetual righteousness as taught by TWI (pear)

I think the truth just popped over the horizon It has nothing to do with righteousness Using Truth found in a Bible class-- note it isn't said that the bible class was the truth but, rather, there there was truth in the class-- a BIG difference So tell me , how much credence should be put in a class that is not wholly true and not about righteousness when we are talking about what God wants???

You are not saved by your works (Fruit) Works (fruit) is what proves you are saved. It is said over and over throughout the bible in various ways and passages. TWI substituted SIT for "Fruit" In fact, SIT is one of the gifts of the holy spirit, not even the greatest one per Paul If you are "born Again" truly converted, you weight your actions against the yardstick of "what would Jesus do" And if you slip and forget to check, or for some reason fall short you ask forgiveness and it is granted through Jesus Christ. As for the the rest of the world they see your "Fruit" ---kindness, generosity, aiding others etc. This is in sharp contrast to the belief system that says, once you are born Again, you can do anything you want because you are forever righteous. Which is proved, no matter how aggregious the sin, as long as you SIT. You can SIT in your bedroom with no witnesses and prove to yourself you are righteous and sally forth with no change in your behavior as regards the "Fruit" the world sees from your hands ( and I'm not even going to get into how many times that experience was faked)

agape (Greek) love (especially love that is spiritual and selfless in nature) http://www.wordreference.com/definition/agape a·ga·pe java script:play( (ä-gäp, äg-p) n. 1. Christianity Love as revealed in Jesus, seen as spiritual and selfless and a model for humanity.2. Love that is spiritual, not sexual, in its nature.3. Christianity In the early Christian Church, the love feast accompanied by Eucharistic celebrationhttp://www.thefreedictionary.com/agape Agapē (written αγάπη in the Greek alphabet, and pronounced /aga̍pe/ or /a̍gape/), is one of several Greek words meaning love The word has been used in different ways by a variety of contemporary and ancient sources, including Biblical authors. Many have thought that this word represents divine, unconditional, self-sacrificing, active, volitional, thoughtful love Greek philosophers at the time of Plato used it in a way that suggested love of that which is below you, rather than philia, love between friends or equals, and Eros love of that which is above you. Eros was see as the highest, and agape as the lowest. The term was used by the early Christians to refer to the special love for God and God's love for humanity, as well as the self-sacrificing love they believed all should have for each other. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agape "the renewed mind in manifestation" Whats in Manifestation?? Clothing the poor, housing the homeless, feeding the hungry, succoring those in prison ???? No indeedy, It's "the renewed mind" that's in manifestation, by SITing, by "working the word", by studying---- I still remember being told by my TC "we don't have to help those outside TWI, they aren't part of the family, God could care less what happens to them" Of course we didn't help those less fortunate than us in TWI either because the fact they were less fortunate meant they weren't ---drum roll please!---"renewing their minds" I by no means do all I could to care for those less fortunate in the world around me--but at least I am free of being told I can't

THE CURLY HAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She is so adorable (I of the stick straight hair)

It the righteous issue--They will tell you they are righteous now and for evermore 1John 3: 6-9 6] Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. [7] Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. [8] He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. [9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. oops, this must meant that VPW , LCM etal having sinned is are not born of God also talks about "doing righteousness --but that's works!!!! Now class, take your scissors and just cut those pesky scriptures out 1 Corinthians 15:34 34] Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame Class, Scissor time James 1:19-25 [19] Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: [20] For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. [21] Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. [22] But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. [23] For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: [24] For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. [25] But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. Sorry I know this is time consuming but clip clip with those scissors What?? You say your Bible looks like a hoard of mice have been harvesting nesting material?? Sorry about that, but we can't have any "Word" that contradicts the Truths of PFAL, now can we???

Personally I have no problem with the concept that You defy God, God tells you if you continue to defy Him you will die, God causes you to die as a result of your continuing to commit deeds that you know you are going to die for committing Goodbye Sodom and Gomorrah I mean, it's not like this is a BIG SURPRISE He's been saying the same thing for all of human history....... "the wages of sin is death" God does Love But God is also righteous And God keeps His word

I think it prudent to remember that people tend to espouse the belief system they believe in when discussing any topic--I mean you would hardly espouse a belief system you didn't believe in , Right!!??!? I therefore expect that TWI, and TWI offshoots will convey TWIish thoughts Baptists, Baptist thoughts Agnostics, Agnostic thoughts Wicca, Wiccan thoughts and I as the resident LDS, LDS thoughts That said I don't feel it incumbent for me to attack others for their belief systems, I "attack" what I disagree with but not the person or their religion --a subtle difference that is too often lost in the heat of discussion

Romans [1] Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. [2] For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. [3] For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. [4] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth [9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. [10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation Okay lets look at these verses 2-4 we talk about the righteousness of God -nothing here about us being righteous in and of ourselves verse 10 nothing about us being permanently righteous there either --instead it says that we believe unto righteousness with our heart. In fact in Galations 5 we read [1] Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. [2] Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. [3] For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. [4] Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. [5] For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. [6] For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love Oops Looks like TWI got it wrong again

APPLES Jesus Christ paid the price for our sins. When we are at the judgement He will step forward for each of who accepted Him and declare to Heavenly Father "This one is mine , I paid the price" At that moment we stand righteous before God. No other person can stop us from accepting or continuing to believe that The Lord Jesus Christ is Our Savior. Hence no other person can take away our Rights as one of His ORANGES We are righteous on the earth while we follow Jesus Christ and conduct ourselves righteously in thought word and deed. We may through our own choices , choose to live unrighteously, or reject Jesus Christ at any time, even after we have accepted Him. Unrighteous behavior does not make us righteous. Paul covered that when he asked if we should sin more so grace could abound. Sin IS Sin, ACCEPTEANCE OF JESUS CHRIST IS NOT A LICENSE TO SIN WITHOUT CONSEQUENCES. In fact Christ Himself makes the point when he says not everyone who Calls "Lord Lord" will be accepted by him APPLE AND ORANGE FRUIT SALAD TWI Attention OM Written evidence of SAME THAT IS WHAT THEY SAID TO ME WHEN I LEFT!!!! I think that takes care of "subtle accusations", Fanciful theories" etc. Oh yeah, the other thing they said when I left was "your Multiple Sclerosis is punishment from God for leaving and not following leaderships instructions during the trials" And I know there was a passage in PFAL that clearly stated that GOD didn't make people ill--guess we have another case of TWI blatantly contradicting itself

PRECISELYWhich is why so many of us were so dumbfounded when we were met with the accusations, threats, bullying and smear campaigns when we did leave or try to leave. And, I'm still waiting for a teaching given to PFAL grads , or any statement that said, you didn't lose those rights. I see you're still on PFAL ---could it be that you can't produce such a statement outside of PFAL because it doesn't exist???? And that begs the question, how can one be bad, act bad and claim "we are at that moment and forevermore righteous" It is a spiritual impossibility to preform unrighteously and be righteous simultaneously. That leaves only two other options 1) when behaving unrighteously leadership was no longer righteous which would "blatantly would contradict established TWI teachings" or 2) established teaching was correct in which case, leadership was never righteous, since they were performing unrighteously, which means THE SPIRIT OF GOD WAS NEVER BORN IN THEM.

OM That comment, was used a "bait" in PFAL to prove the excellency of TWI What I asked for was a Teaching, not PFAL, that was addressed to PFAL graduates that said "it's okay to leave TWI because you'll still have all your son ship rights" But I do want to thank you for further clarifying leadership Mindset "When the Spirit of God in Christ is born within us, we are at that moment and forevermore righteous." When the Spirit of God in Christ is born within us, we are at that moment and forevermore righteous, even when seducing young girls. When the Spirit of God in Christ is born within us, we are at that moment and forevermore righteous, even when molesting children. When the Spirit of God in Christ is born within us, we are at that moment and forevermore righteous, even when committing adultery. When the Spirit of God in Christ is born within us, we are at that moment and forevermore righteous, even when demanding our fellow believers give up more money than they can afford. When the Spirit of God in Christ is born within us, we are at that moment and forevermore righteous, even when using unrighteous dominion over others.......