templelady

If you are worthy to enter the temple. then you would be a participant, there would be no point in witnessing them only. The questions does arise when family members of the bride or groom are not LDS. LDS temple are weddings for sealing couples in eternal marriage and sacred nature so only those members with temple reccommends are allowed in. No, no surprises in the sense of I didn't know what was going to happen. I didn't know all the specifics of the ceremonies because they are sacred, but I was prepared , and told what to expect in general terms, and one of my friends went with me the first time as a"coach" and the temple workers were so very wonderful. it is just a really "Magical" experience in the spiritual sense And, regarding the tithe, that seems like a goodly way of doing it. BTW, pre-tax, post-tax, or your conscience? In the Lord’s commandment to the people of this day, tithing is “ ‘one-tenth of all their interest annually,’ which is understood to mean income.” The First Presidency has said, “No one is justified in making any other statement than this” (First Presidency letter, 19 Mar. 1970, quoted in the General Handbook of Instructions, 1989, p. 9-1; see also D&C 119).

- Baptisms for the dead. Again, what's the theology? I Corinthians 15 12] Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? [13] But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: [15] Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. [16] For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: [20] But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. [21] For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. [29] Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? THE LDS Church holds that Baptisms for the dead and sealings are some of the "plain and precious truths" that have been lost form the Bible. Water baptism by immersion is believed to be essential for salvation since Jesus Christ himself had to be baptized by immersion by his cousin John before the Holy Ghost descended to dwell in Him

We don't believe in the trinity There is Heavenly Father/GOD A being with a body of flesh and bone he is the creator We are all his children There is Jesus Christ He made this world at the direction of Heavenly Father He is the "God" of the Old Testament after the garden of Eden HE came to this earth a a human just as we are human He lead a sinless life He suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane where he took on the sins of the world, so great was his suffering that he sweated drops of blood was beaten scourged and mocked He died on the cross He was raised from the dead by Heavenly Father thus forever breaking the bonds of death He is the propitiation for our sins and our mediator with God He will welcome and stand for us at the final judgement The Holy GHOST The Holy Ghost is Heavenly Fathers Spirit which is indwelling in all baptized members UNLESS they sin which case it departs since that which is holy cannot abide in the same place with that which is unholy

Precedence is not the applicable word It's all scripture We believe the Bible in as far as it is translated accurately The following is the introduction to the book of Mormon The Book of Mormon is a volume of holy scripture comparable to the Bible. It is a record of God’s dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains, as does the Bible, the fullness of the everlasting gospel. The book was written by many ancient prophets by the spirit of prophecy and revelation. Their words, written on gold plates, were quoted and abridged by a prophet-historian named Mormon. The record gives an account of two great civilizations. One came from Jerusalem in 600 B.C., and afterward separated into two nations, known as the Nephites and the Lamanites. The other came much earlier when the Lord confounded the tongues at the Tower of Babel. This group is known as the Jaredites. After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are the principal ancestors of the American Indians. The crowning event recorded in the Book of Mormon is the personal ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ among the Nephites soon after his resurrection. It puts forth the doctrines of the gospel, outlines the plan of salvation, and tells men what they must do to gain peace in this life and eternal salvation in the life to come. After Mormon completed his writings, he delivered the account to his son Moroni, who added a few words of his own and hid up the plates in the hill Cumorah. On September 21, 1823, the same Moroni, then a glorified, resurrected being, appeared to the Prophet Joseph Smith and instructed him relative to the ancient record and its destined translation into the English language. In due course the plates were delivered to Joseph Smith, who translated them by the gift and power of God. The record is now published in many languages as a new and additional witness that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God and that all who will come unto him and obey the laws and ordinances of his gospel may be saved. Concerning this record the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.” In addition to Joseph Smith, the Lord provided for eleven others to see the gold plates for themselves and to be special witnesses of the truth and divinity of the Book of Mormon. The Doctrine and Covenants is a group of revelations to Joseph Smith and other prophets of the church, covering specific times and places as well as church organization and practice. Having been in TWI I am one bitten twice shy when it comes to scripture I have searched diligently and have found nothing in the BOM or D&C which negates or denies even one principle in the Bible if anything, my study of these scriptures in conjunction with the Bible have lead to a deepening of my understanding and love for the Bible. Sunday School in the LDS church follows a four year cycle Pearl of Great Price & Old Testament New Testament BOM D&C

The best answer is that Garments( church issued underwear) are worn by all those members who have been to the temple and received their endowments ( a ceremony where covenants are made with God) They are a physical reminder, when we wear them, that we have made promises to God which we must honor-- the wearing of Scapula in the RC tradition, a rosary, a cross, or a crucifix would be the closest I could come to explaining it Tithing is recommended and a requirement for a temple recommend It isn't mandatory--you won't be denounced from the pulpit or excommunicated if you don't It is monitored only in the sense that it is keep track of by clerks so that the church has an accurate accounting of funds, and that statements can be issued for tax purposes at the end of the year. If I make 2000 a month and "tithe" 150 --that isn't a full tithe--but I'm the only one who would know that unless I announce that I'm only paying 150 instead of 200. The Bishop will ask if you pay a full tithe on occasion,. If you say yes and you aren't--It's God you'll have to answer to not the bishop, because he'll take your word for it

I'm game There are chapels which is where churches held and there is the Temple where ordinances that LDS hold to be sacred are preformed. In order to participate in the temple ceremony you need a recommend from the bishop--the recommend process is very simple about 15 minutes max, where you answer basic questions to ascertain if you believe the church is true and are you following basic commandments of God The actual service in temples is regarded as sacred but among other things, eternal marriages, baptisms for the dead and sealings of families are preformed there. LDS regard these ordinances as essential to ensure families are together for eternity. these beliefs are founded on Matthew 16 [19] And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. What most people think of as a mission in the LDS church is served by young adults, It is strongly encouraged for boys, and more and more girls are going out also. Boys serve 2 years girls 18 months. There is no better way, to strengthen a testimony and see the Gospel in action than to witness it on the mission field. Most missionaries return , with increased self-confidence and are well on there way to productive adulthood having learned not only spiritual things but also how to budget, time, money, and resources, as well as learning communication skills and the ability to work and share with others What most people don't realize is that is only one kind of mission. There are missions for married couple, local missions, etc. All is mission really is is a set time you give to the church where service to the church becomes your "job" many couples and singles go on these kinds of missions after they retire.

I still am amazed at how long I ignored that voice in MY head

Allen I am going to talk in simple words. The LDS church does not teach TWI doctrine NOW can we get back to my question about VPW and prophecy?? Does anyone know of a single prophecy of his that came true? The gift of prophecy being a means by which we learn things that are not available to know otherwise and as a corollary to this did he in fact ever prophecy? And ALLEN I am not discussing the LDS Church with you on this topic so save your typing fingers

Allen you have posted this item more than once on these forums and silly me I didn't get the message until just now. I was so excited I logged back on to post... YOU have publicly admitted that people baptized into the LDS church receive the Holy Ghost as manifested by them speaking in tongues, and in so doing confirmed that the LDS Church is in fact true Thank you so much

Allen, the reason it is called Private is that you can do anything you please-It would never occur to an LDS bishop or president to inquire if you SIT or suggest that you SIT in your personal prayer life because it is NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS.

Ya all mind of the resident LDS tags along with you guys??

the concept "lay person" doesn't exist in scripture --just believers and non-believers "lay" people are the backbone and muscle of the church-- Where would the clergy be without them??? Sitting on a rock, in the middle of a bare field in a snowstorm, preaching to the trees--that's where

I was in before the codified NO debt policy. But even then it amazed me how we could be lectured on the merits of thrift, chided for spending money on items that weren't necessary, while in almost the same breath told how we should be ABSing more, and spending more supporting TWI Funny I guess it's just the old five senses me-but if I spend more than I take in --that's debt and it really doesn't matter where I do the spending did a spell check on this post and as a alternate to "ABSIng "it offered "abasing" --out of the mouths of software...

Allen the LDS take their definitions from scripture you obviously take yours from PFAL There can never be common ground in that disparity So I am done belaboring the point with you. dmiller I would hazard guess that you are speaking of the passage where the apostles preach and listeners hears what is being taught it in their own language. I had a lady I know who served a mission in Russia tell of the time she and other missionaries were at a Russian families home. The family spoke English except for the grandmother who spoke and understood only Russian, specifically the dialect of her region. One of the missionaries apologized for the fact that they couldn't teach everything in Russian so the grandmother could understand. The father of the family said, "oh that is alright she understands everything" Surprised my friend and her companion asked what the grandmother thought of what was taught that night. The grandmother proceeded to explain what she had learned through her son--she had understood every word perfectly. I have had another missionary who taught in a Spanish speaking country tell of getting up and finding himself bearing his testimony in Spanish even though his skill in the language should not have permitted it. And I agree that we can speak in tongues when speaking to the spirit in our PRIVATE prayer life, I've had the experience. As far as I'm concerned it is a twisting of scripture to say that the person speaking is the one who interprets. It was a smokescreen on VPW's part so that he and others could say what ever they wanted and claim it was from God. Do I think that everyone in TWI was therefore faking, No, God is able to work with anyone who truly is in tune with Him. But that was IMO in spite of rather than because of VPW's teachings. As for prophecy--can anyone name one prophecy of VPW 's that came true, prophecy being the means of knowing what will be when it would not be possible to know it by any other means

No one, and if the same could also be said, of parting the Red Sea, The cloud on Mt Sinai, Water from the rock, the plagues of Egypt etc etc Then I would have serious problems with Moses too. But in point of fact there were more than a few witnesses for much of what happened in Moses life. Hence It is easier to believe him when he speaks of other events-- Unlike VPW who never seems to have witnesses for anything

So let me get this straight First you bash the LDS for not believing that the Gifts/manifestations are present in the church today And then when it is proved that LDS do believe that the Gifts/manifestations are present in the church today You claim Okay, which is it Allen Do the Gifts/manifestations exist today or not?? Please find a position and stick with it

"PFAL is the Word of God" or "PFAL is God's Word re-issued" You, see Mike I only have VPW's word for that, and it isn't enough. Surely there should be one other person in the world who saw that snowstom, saw those gas pumps, was present when GOD Spoke to VPW, but there never was.

I can't, my cat used it for a scratching post

That is the point Mike, There should have never been any doubt at all, You shouldn't have had to be sharp or persistent to find out it was a "misimpression" as you so quaintly put it. The slowest student in the Class should have been clear during the class about VPW not seeing the originals.

Being a teacher ( and that's all "clergy" are when you get down to it) is a calling of God. Anyone who is called can do it, all they have to do is listen to the Spirit and know the Scriptures. What is Called Clergy in Protestant and Catholic Christianity refers to people who are steeped in the doctrines of their particular faith. But to just teach Scripture, we all did it in TWI, many of the best teachings I heard were from my fellow "leaves", of course this was in the day when you were allowed to do your own research and not just re-parrot Leadership.

Allen, I am not by nature a terribly patient person, you are straining the last bit I have. If you were paying attention to what you read you would have noticed that the article was in the ENSIGN If you knew as much about LDS as you claim, you would know that the Ensign is the official LDS monthly magazine As simple Google check of James A Cullimore would have led you to this link http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/w/o/wol3/cullija1.htm where you would not only have found out that he was LDS but a leader in the Church A google on the entire article would have led to this page http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navc...v%2e+1974%2c+27+ Which cites numerous LDS references I myself found the article at www.lds.org So lets see, we have a general authority of the LDS Church writing an article which is publishing in the LDS magazine, which is referenced not only at the official LDS church website, but BYU and LDS Seminary classes on other websites. Just by reviewing these FACTS I feel I am on really solid ground in catagorically stating that this is what LDS believe. Personally I don't give a Rodent's posterior if you hate LDS. But I do expect that you will at least do some basic research into what we actually believe before spouting off like a pimple on an adolescent's face

Tom :)

So how come you keep trying to sell the notion it is??? For the record I don't push the complaint button I dont ask for people to be banned I'll say what I please, when I please, on any thread I please,--deal with it

Allen, Dear, the article wasn't written by me if you look closely you'll see I cited the reference -James A. Cullimore, "Gifts of the Spirit," Ensign, Nov. 1974, 27 the "diatribe" as you call it that you ascribe to me isn't mine it's from his article. Perhaps you need to hone your reading and comprehension skills so as to more intelligently participate in discussions DMiller :) as I remember the "logic" Receiving the Holy Ghost is the Gift and speaking in tongues, interpretation of tongues, word of wisdom, word of knowledge, prophecy, gifts of healing etc etc are the manifestations of receiving that gift Hence since we have received the Gift of the Holy Ghost, we have all of the manifestations and can operate all of them. SIT being elevated to the manifestation that proves we have received the Gift of the Holy Ghost. By making them manifestations he could support his allegation that it was "all nine all the time". That was a stock phrase--and you didn't have to be an AC grad to have it expounded, propounded, and just plain rammed down your throat at every available opportunity. Woe betide the poor "leaf" who had the temerity to suggest that the so called "manifestations" were in fact gifts in their own right and just perhaps we didn't all get all gifts. At least that it is how it was in my neck of the woods I have no problem with believing that there are those among us who could operate all nine in the appropriate situations, its the use TWI put it to that sticks in my craw. As with so much else in TWI, it was used to point out how inferior some believers were , while simultaneously elevating the propounding expounders to superior status with their self-proclaimed great ability to manifest said nine. <_<

There are no ORIGINAL manuscripts for the New Testament, at best what we have are copies of copies of some of the letters of Paul and other believers (some not included at all in the New Testament) not to mention those that are forever lost to us. The Gospels were written much later than the letters So right there there is a big ALERT sign on VPW's teachings, he couldn't have read it in the "Original" because the "Original" is long gone Suggest you read "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart D Ehrman on this subject. Oops, sorry that would mean something not written by VPW --just forget I mentioned it.