templelady

So the long and the short of you answer to my post is that we know that 1) two of those scriptures are not applicable, and we know 2) that the interpretation of them is incorrect because VPW says so in PFAL Mike, don't you see that you can't prove the truth of PFAL from PFAL. YOU can't prove the truth of anything by its existence. You prove truth by OUTSIDE corroborating evidence

I remember a story years ago about a very arrogant individual who went to his priest about not being able to sustain personal relationships, and generally having his life in a muddle. The priest told the man to go stand outside and look up at the heavens. The man returned to the priest and complained "I stood looking up at the heavens and the rain came pouring down on me and I felt like a fool" to which the Priest replied "well, that's quite a lot of revelation for a first try, isn't it !" ON the LDS thread markomalley asked me about what the LDS believe about Jesus Christ. And I told him the following There is Jesus Christ He made this world at the direction of Heavenly Father He is the "God" of the Old Testament after the garden of Eden HE came to this earth a a human just as we are human ERROR ERROR ERROR He led a sinless life He suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane where he took on the sins of the world, so great was his suffering that he sweated drops of blood was beaten scourged and mocked He died on the cross He was raised from the dead by Heavenly Father thus forever breaking the bonds of death ERROR ERROR ERROR He is the propitiation for our sins and our mediator with God He will welcome and stand for us at the final judgement The problem is twofold, first, in my arrogance I neglected to check and make sure ALL my beliefs tallied with what the church actually taught and Second, Most of this the average LDS child, born in the church, knows by the time they are nine, and since the question of these two points never really came up no one knew I was off base. So imagine my surprise to pick up the April copy of the Ensign yesterday morning and read the following article and discover I had been telling you erroneous facts. It's been quite a journey today as I have contemplated and absorbed this "new "information and corrected wrong thinking I statrted a new thread because I am posting the article in it's entirity so you all will have the correct answer to your questions And I ask all of you to forgive me for not getting it right the first time around Gospel Classics: From the Garden to the Empty Tomb Elder James E. Talmage (1862–1933) "From the Garden to the Empty Tomb," Ensign, Apr. 2006, 12 Gethsemane "Gethsemane.—The name means 'oil-press' and probably has reference to a mill maintained at the place for the extraction of oil from the olives there cultivated. John refers to the spot as a garden, from which designation we may regard it as an enclosed space of private ownership. That it was a place frequented by Jesus when He sought retirement for prayer, or opportunity for confidential converse with the disciples, is indicated by the same writer (John 18:1, 2)" (Jesus the Christ, 3rd ed. [1916], 620). President Joseph Fielding Smith (1876–1972) "We speak of the passion of Jesus Christ. A great many people have an idea that when he was on the cross, and nails were driven into his hands and feet, that was his great suffering. His great suffering was before he ever was placed upon the cross. It was in the Garden of Gethsemane that the blood oozed from the pores of his body: 'Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink' [D&C 19:18]. "That was not when he was on the cross; that was in the garden. That is where he bled from every pore in his body. "Now I cannot comprehend that pain. I have suffered pain, you have suffered pain, and sometimes it has been quite severe; but I cannot comprehend pain, which is mental anguish more than physical, that would cause the blood, like sweat, to come out upon the body. It was something terrible, something terrific; so we can understand why he would cry unto his Father: " 'If it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt' [Matt. 26:39]" (Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [1954–56], 1:130). President Ezra Taft Benson (1899–1994) "On the night Jesus was betrayed, He took three of the Twelve and went into the place called Gethsemane. There He suffered the pains of all men. He suffered as only God could suffer, bearing our griefs, carrying our sorrows, being wounded for our transgressions, voluntarily submitting Himself to the iniquity of us all, just as Isaiah prophesied (see Isa. 53:4–6). "It was in Gethsemane that Jesus took on Himself the sins of the world, in Gethsemane that His pain was equivalent to the cumulative burden of all men, in Gethsemane that He descended below all things so that all could repent and come to Him. The mortal mind fails to fathom, the tongue cannot express, the pen of man cannot describe the breadth, the depth, the height of the suffering of our Lord—nor His infinite love for us" (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson [1988], 14). Elder James E. Talmage "Christ's agony in the garden is unfathomable by the finite mind, both as to intensity and cause. … It was not physical pain, nor mental anguish alone, that caused Him to suffer such torture as to produce an extrusion of blood from every pore; but a spiritual agony of soul such as only God was capable of experiencing. No other man, however great his powers of physical or mental endurance, could have suffered so; for his human organism would have succumbed, and syncope would have produced unconsciousness and welcome oblivion. In that hour of anguish Christ met and overcame all the horrors that Satan, 'the prince of this world' could inflict. … "In some manner, actual and terribly real though to man incomprehensible, the Savior took upon Himself the burden of the sins of mankind from Adam to the end of the world" (Jesus the Christ, 613). President John Taylor (1808–87) "Groaning beneath this concentrated load, this intense, incomprehensible pressure, this terrible exaction of Divine justice, from which feeble humanity shrank, and through the agony thus experienced sweating great drops of blood, He was led to exclaim, 'Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me' [Matt. 26:39]. He had wrestled with the superincumbent load in the wilderness; He had struggled against the powers of darkness that had been let loose upon him there; placed below all things, His mind surcharged with agony and pain, lonely and apparently helpless and forsaken, in his agony the blood oozed from His pores" (The Mediation and Atonement [1882], 150). Calvary Elder James E. Talmage "It seems, that in addition to the fearful suffering incident to crucifixion, the agony of Gethsemane had recurred, intensified beyond human power to endure. In that bitterest hour the dying Christ was alone, alone in most terrible reality. That the supreme sacrifice of the Son might be consummated in all its fulness, the Father seems to have withdrawn the support of His immediate Presence, leaving to the Savior of men the glory of complete victory over the forces of sin and death. … "The period of faintness, the conception of utter forsakenness soon passed, and the natural cravings of the body reasserted themselves. The maddening thirst, which constituted one of the worst of the crucifixion agonies, wrung from the Savior's lips His one recorded utterance expressive of physical suffering. 'I thirst' [John 19:28], He said. One of those who stood by, whether Roman or Jew, disciple or skeptic, we are not told, hastily saturated a sponge with vinegar, a vessel of which was at hand, and having fastened the sponge to the end of a reed, or stalk of hyssop, pressed it to the Lord's fevered lips. … "Fully realizing that He was no longer forsaken, but that His atoning sacrifice had been accepted by the Father, and that His mission in the flesh had been carried to glorious consummation, He exclaimed in a loud voice of holy triumph: 'It is finished' [John 19:30]. In reverence, resignation, and relief, He addressed the Father saying: 'Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit' [Luke 23:46]. He bowed His head, and voluntarily gave up His life. "Jesus the Christ was dead. His life had not been taken from Him except as He had willed to permit. Sweet and welcome as would have been the relief of death in any of the earlier stages of His suffering from Gethsemane to the cross, He lived until all things were accomplished as had been appointed" (Jesus the Christ, 661–62). The Empty Tomb President John Taylor "As a God, He descended below all things, and made Himself subject to man in man's fallen condition; as a man, He grappled with all the circumstances incident to His sufferings in the world. Anointed, indeed, with the oil of gladness above His fellows, He struggled with and overcame the powers of men and devils, of earth and hell combined; and aided by this superior power of the Godhead, He vanquished death, hell and the grave, and arose triumphant as the Son of God, the very eternal Father, the Messiah, the Prince of peace, the Redeemer, the Savior of the world" (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: John Taylor [2001], 43). [/color]President Spencer W. Kimball (1895–1985) "Only a God could bring about this miracle of resurrection. As a teacher of righteousness, Jesus could inspire souls to goodness; as a prophet, he could foreshadow the future; as an intelligent leader of men, he could organize a church; and as a possessor and magnifier of the priesthood, he could heal the sick, give sight to the blind, even raise other dead; but only as a God could he raise himself from the tomb, overcome death permanently, and bring incorruption in place of corruption, and replace mortality with immortality. … "No human hands had been at work to remove the sealed door nor to resuscitate nor restore. No magician nor sorcerer had invaded the precincts to work his cures; not even the priesthood, exercised by another, had been brought in use to heal, but the God who had purposefully and intentionally laid down his life had, by the power of his godhead, taken up his life again. … The spirit which had been by him commended to his Father in Heaven from the cross, and which, according to his later reports, had been to the spirit world, had returned and, ignoring the impenetrable walls of the sepulcher, had entered the place, re-entered the body, had caused the stone door to be rolled away, and walked in life again, with his body changed to immortality, incorruptible—his every faculty keen and alert. "Unexplainable? Yes! And not understandable—but incontestable. More than 500 unimpeachable witnesses had contact with him. They walked with him, talked with him, ate with him, felt the flesh of his body and saw the wounds in his side and feet and hands; discussed with him the program which had been common to them, and him; and, by many infallible proofs knew and testified that he was risen, and that that last and most dreaded enemy, death, had been overcome. … "And so we bear testimony that the being who created the earth and its contents, who made numerous appearances upon the earth prior to his birth in Bethlehem, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is resurrected and immortal, and that this great boon of resurrection and immortality becomes now, through our Redeemer, the heritage of mankind" (The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball [1982], 17–18). President Gordon B. Hinckley "Then dawned the first day of the week, the Sabbath of the Lord as we have come to know it. To those who came to the tomb, heavy with sorrow, the attending angel declared, 'Why seek ye the living among the dead?' (Luke 24:5). " 'He is not here: … he is risen, as he said' (Matt. 28:6). "Here was the greatest miracle of human history. Earlier He had told them, 'I am the resurrection, and the life' (John 11:25). But they had not understood. Now they knew. He had died in misery and pain and loneliness. Now, on the third day, He arose in power and beauty and life, the firstfruits of all who slept, the assurance for men of all ages that 'as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive' (1 Cor. 15:22). "On Calvary He was the dying Jesus. From the tomb He emerged the Living Christ. The cross had been the bitter fruit of Judas's betrayal, the summary of Peter's denial. The empty tomb now became the testimony of His divinity, the assurance of eternal life, the answer to Job's unanswered question: 'If a man die, shall he live again?' (Job 14:14). … "And so, because our Savior lives, we do not use the symbol of His death as the symbol of our faith. But what shall we use? No sign, no work of art, no representation of form is adequate to express the glory and the wonder of the Living Christ. He told us what that symbol should be when He said, 'If ye love me, keep my commandments' (John 14:15). "As His followers, we cannot do a mean or shoddy or ungracious thing without tarnishing His image. Nor can we do a good and gracious and generous act without burnishing more brightly the symbol of Him whose name we have taken upon ourselves. And so our lives must become a meaningful expression, the symbol of our declaration of our testimony of the Living Christ, the Eternal Son of the Living God" ("The Symbol of Our Faith," Liahona and Ensign, Apr. 2005, 4–6). © 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.

Thank you George I have always wondered why some like you became agnostic and some like me went the other way when answers just weren't forthcoming. Interesting about the Lutherans that too was the church of my childhhod, and they affected me exactly the same way . (BTW it never ceases to amaze me how many LDS who converted were once Lutheran) I think is has to do with the presentation..........

1 Thessalonians 4 [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words. How can we Meet the Lord in the air if we can't see him? We which are alive the dead..rise first , what suggests this is not at the same time?? Matthew 24 [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Direct from Christ himself Shall Appear All the tribes of the earth Revelation 1 [7] Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. Every eye shall see him all kindreds What was it about the Number three--wasn't it that Three establishes it??

I think it has to do with the fact that the love of Christ shines through them.

THank you for the links-- It is much appreciated I have thought of another question (suurprised aren't you ) IN CES/STFI theology what is heaven going to be like?

I think that how much actual truth one feels they learned in TWI depends a great deal on how much truth one had before joining. If you were raised a Christian and had learned about Christ and his atonement, about the gifts if the spirit, about loving your neighbor, about charity etc etc, BEFORE you joined TWI then you don't credit TWI with learning these things from them. If on the other hand, TWI was your introduction to Christ, extremely flawed though it was, you might very well claim you learned things that, people like my self already took for granted. I am willing to concede that I have been sharper than I needed to with WD, pond etc SOMETIMES because I didn't stop to consider this point. BUT (knew there had to be one didn't ya ) That in no way changes my position that PFAL and TWI are riddled with error, and should be avoided.

George, was TWI your only experience with Christianity or was it just the straw that broke the camels back?

Allen ,I have never requested that you be banned

What the Hey I went to the page you referenced and would like to respond to some of the other statements made there IN order to enter the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom you must have been sealed to your spouse in an LDS temple and live a worthy life. That is LDS doctrineit is FLDS doctrine that states it has to be a polygamist marriage 12th article of faith "WE believe in being subject to kings, presidents rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring and sustaining the law 'insofar as those laws protect individual rights' isn't in the LDS Articles of Faith BUt has been added to the articles of faith of the FLDS church Even when the LDS Church practiced polygamy there were those who practiced it WITHOUT the blessing of The Church ( if you go back to where I posted on Polygamy the first time you will see where the endowment house was torn down because it was found out that people were getting "sealed" without the authority of the Presidency of The Church. Clearly someone who would enter a polygamous union without the blessing of The Church would not abandon said union because The Church outlawed it. And that is when the above "justification" appeared. THe FLDS are FLDS LDS are LDS it's as simple as that

True First they aren't members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. One of the largest polygamist groups is the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They claim that they are still LDS but in actuality they are in direct violation of the 12th article of faith "WE believe in being subject to kings, presidents rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring and sustaining the law" and in direct violation of 14 Presidents of the LDS church. That is akin to a group forming and calling themselves the Really True Roman Catholic Church while ignoring the papacy for 200 years and denying part of the dogma of the Roman Catholic Church Just 'cause you put the name in the title doesn't mean you are And then there are all the other groups whose affiliation with THE LDS church is equally bogus, often just a cover for sexual wantonness, the fact is the only reason any of them claim to be "Mormon" is to try to give a religious slant to their willful violation of both civil and church law.. which works really well for them they are" the Poor Persecuted "true Church"" and True LDS have to spend time explaining their conduct-- IMO it's way past time for them to quit claiming LDS affiliation and just stand up and say "we want to be polygamists" and be done with it. Those who still attend LDS services are aware they will be excommunicated if "outed" they go to great lengths to hide their secret. Each wife has her own house for her and her children, often they go so far as to be in different states or towns. Since only the first wife is the one with the marriage license, and the children are trained to keep the secret from their earliest years it takes major slip or someone from in the family for it to come to light.Think about your own experiences what would you think if you ran into a friend from your church at an amusement park with his wife and kids, and another woman and her kids, would you think Polygamy or would you just figure the other woman was a friend of the family? True for marriages performed when polygamy was still legal Not true for marriages after the church outlawed them A man in this life can be sealed to his wife and children. Say she dies in a car accident and he remarries. He can be sealed to his second wife and the children of that marriage also. In the Celestial kingdom they will all live as one family. The church views polygamy as an eternal principle that will lived by some n the Celestial Kingdom. True Not true, When the Prophet of the church speaks religious doctrine it is binding all all members of the church. In these situations our Prophet is speaking for God. In order for it to have "only been a show" God would have had to be duplicitous " an impossibility 6. 35% of Utahs population does not believe polygamists should be prosecuted according to a recent poll. Was that segment of the population all LDS. A mix of LDS And non LDS. A mix of LDS and polygamists, or a mix of everybody? Even if everyone polled was LDS that still means 65% think it should be

I am so enchanted with the LDS thread (THANKS mark ) I decided I wanted to start this one Just exactly how does CES differ from TWI (aside from the obvious) Are their any doctrines that CES has removed Does CES share TWI beliefs on the Nature of Jesus On the gifts of the spirit etc. Is CES just TWI without the old leadership or has it evolved into a sect of it's own I probably have more questions but this will do for starters

Thank YOU Any more questions??

SO then the question becomes are these actual Spirits in the sense that SATAN: Send, me the Spirit of Fear, I need him to go topside and make sure Mo is fearful Or does it mean spirit of fear, as a mental state that God doesn't want his children to have

ALLEN I AM GOING TO SAY THIS ONE TIME AND ONE TIME ONLY YOU WILL NOT DERAIL THIS THREAD WITH YOUR RANTINGS ONE MORE TIME AND I WILL HAVED YOU BANNED And WW and all of you, thank you butplease, At least here, ignore him I don't want this a war zone, just a place where you can learn about my church if you want

Allen the purpose of this website is to discuss, differ with, disprove, prove and/or agree with the teachings of TWI etal. Therefore, to complain when that happens is disingenuous at best

Eternal Marriage is correctly called Celestial Marriage. Couples who are married in the Temple are sealed together for time and eternity. Couples so sealed will be together in the Celestial Kingdom, PROVIDED that both parties have led lives in keeping with the commandments of GOD. Another aspect of this doctrine is Families are sealed to each other so that in the Celestial kingdom, aunts, uncles, siblings, parents, grandparents etc will live and work together in family groups As a side note, never be afraid to ask any missionary anything--especially the ones new to the mission field. How will they learn to be good missionaries, if no one asks them questions? If they don't have the answer you need, they will contact a senior companion or the mission president and get back to you with the information-- for 18-24 months this is their job, don't hesitate to ask them to do it :)

Question: What is the Church’s position on polygamy? Answer: In 1998, President Gordon B. Hinckley made the following statement about the Church's position on plural marriage: "This Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church. . . . If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church." At various times, the Lord has commanded His people to practice plural marriage. For example, He gave this command to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and Solomon (D&C 132.1)In this dispensation, the Lord commanded some of the early Saints to practice plural marriage. The Prophet Joseph Smith and those closest to him, including Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball, were challenged by this command, but they obeyed it. Church leaders regulated the practice. Those entering into it had to be authorized to do so, and the marriages had to be performed through the sealing power of the priesthood. In 1890, President Wilford Woodruff received a revelation that the leaders of the Church should cease teaching the practice of plural marriage (Official Declaration1) OFFICIAL DECLARATION—1To Whom It May Concern: Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy— I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory. One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay. Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise. There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land. WILFORD WOODRUFF President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. President Lorenzo Snow offered the following: “I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.” The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous. Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.

TWI was OBESSESSED with "debil Spurts"--Any thing and everything they didn't approve of was give a specific Spirit. Scripturally I find no basis for this. That devil spirits exist I agree with, But this Spirit, of drunkenness, Spirit, of lying, Spirit of discord ad nauseum ad infinitum--no

The truth is made into a lie by weaving it with lies, by changing the focus of the truth Well said

Where do I start My icon says I've been here sine 2004, but that is when I came back after a year hiatus. I remember finding Trancechat--It was so intense and I just wasn't ready for it. Then after my oldest child made contact after a 10 year separation I remember sitting at my computer and typing in "The Way International" suddenly It was there, people, who knew what I'd been through, people who'd suffered the same, pain, people trying to heal and be healed. I remember the flood gates just opened and I cried and I shook. I remember the bad dreams as the suppressed memories came back And I remember the patience and love that was there as I worked through them I remember figuring out that CW was in fact a long lost friend from TWI who had at one point lived with my family. She and I had many issues and problems to work through and if not for Waydale and GS we never would have., I left here in 2003 thinking I was past TWI, but soon realized that such a life altering experience is with you always and, even more to the point, I missed you all so terribly much SO back I came, I don't spend the hours here I did in the beginning, But I wouldn't miss being here for the world

THE ARTICLES OF FAITH OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541 1 WE believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. 2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression. 3 We believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. 4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, repentance; third, baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. 5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof. 6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, Evangelists, and so forth. 7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth. 8 We believe the Bible to be the world of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. 9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal• many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God. 10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory. 11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. 12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. 13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things. JOSEPH SMITH. The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints © 2000 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

I looked up the 144,000 on the internet The Anointed (144,000) will be in heaven to reign with Jehovah God. The rest of the faithful Jehovah's Witnesses (not of the 144,000) will live forever on a paradise Earth Only in the very loosest sense Because everyone one on earth will have the chance to talk to the missionaries in the spirit world before the resurrection, everyone will have a chance to accept the Restored gospel. If you never were taught the Restored gospel, or never knew it to be true than you can accept in in the spirit world and go to the Celestial kingdom That's why LDS do baptisms for the dead etc so that if someone accepts the Restored gospel their temple work will be done. There is no number limit on how many will be in the Celestial Kingdom The Terrestial Kingdom is made up of LDS who didn't keep all the commandments or who never went to the temple, People who knew the Restored gospel was true here on earth but rejected it and accepted later in the spirit world, people who believed In Jesus and his atonement etc but never had the chance to hear the Restored gospel and reject the Restored gospel in the Spirit world, And people who have led Godly lives without ever hearing the Restored gospel and choose no to accept it in the spirit world

okay from the top we'll start with markomalley Right on all counts He was created by Heavenly Father Jesus is what the Old Testament refers to as God, but there is only one God who is the object of Worship and that is Heavenly father- LDS accept the gospel accounts of Jesus conception birth and family as recorded in the New Testament as being true My understanding is that he did not possess them since while he was on earth he was human. However, He was never deprived of His freedom of choice--all he had to do was tell Heavenly Father in effect, "I changed my mind and I want out of this plan" and the whole atonement would not have taken place, Satan knew this too when he Tempted Jesus to hurl himself off the Temple--He was trying to bait Jesus into abandoning the plan of salvation.I think your explanation of the last things make sort of sense without questions, but there are a couple of things that I'd heard, that I'd appreciate verification of: All of us are spirit children of Heavenly father and were with Heavenly Father in the preexistence. Heavenly Father also created the angels and Archangels, and all the heavenly host. Heavenly Father realized that as his spirit children we needed the opportunity to grow in faith and mature so hew decided to give us the option to come to earth and live in flesh and bone bodies. A great council was held and the topic came up as to how we were going to make it back to Heavenly Father from our sojourn on earth. Lucifer in effect said, "Heavenly Father, I can do the job, I will make it so man will not violate your commandments, and they will all return, then you will be pleased at how well I have done. Jesus spoke up and said in effect , "Heavenly Father If we give them no choice then they will be deprived of their freedom of choice and YOU will never know what their decision would have been, Give man freedom of choice, give him commandments to live by and arrange for there to be sacrifices so that he may return even if he errs, then YOU will have the glory. Heavenly father agreed that Jesus' plan was the better of the two. Enraged Satan left the court of heaven with a third of the angels, those who had supported his plan, President Lorenzo Snow gives us a picture of the importance of celestial marriage: “When two Latter-day Saints are united together in marriage, promises are made to them concerning their offspring that reach from eternity to eternity. They are promised that they shall have the power and the right to govern and control and administer salvation and exaltation and glory to their offspring worlds without end. And what offspring they do not have here, undoubtedly there will be opportunities to have them hereafter. What else could man wish? A man and a woman in the other life, having celestial<A name=LPHit50> bodies, free from sickness and disease, glorified and beautified beyond description, standing in the midst of their posterity, governing and controlling them, administering life, exaltation and glory worlds without end!” (Lorenzo Snow, The Deseret Weekly, 3 Apr. 1897, p. 481.)

there are three KINGDOMS OF GLORY (Heaven) in LDS theology and PERDITION GREEN notes by me Celestial Kingdom The celestial kingdom is the highest of the three kingdoms of glory. Those in this kingdom will dwell forever in the presence of God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. it is the result of a lifetime of righteousness and constancy of purpose. The celestial kingdom is the place prepared for those who have "received the testimony of Jesus" and been "made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood" To inherit this gift, we must receive the ordinances of salvation, keep the commandments, and repent of our sins. In January 1836 the Prophet Joseph Smith received a revelation that expanded his understanding of the requirements to inherit celestial glory. The heavens were opened to him, and he saw the celestial kingdom. He marveled when he saw his older brother Alvin there, even though Alvin had died before receiving the ordinance of baptism. Then the voice of the Lord came to the Prophet Joseph: "All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; "Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom; "For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts" Commenting on this revelation, the Prophet Joseph said, "I also beheld that all children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven" From another revelation to the Prophet Joseph, we learn that there are three degrees within the celestial kingdom. To be exalted in the highest degree and continue eternally in family relationships, we must enter into "the new and everlasting covenant of marriage" and be true to that covenant. In other words, temple marriage is a requirement for obtaining the highest degree of celestial glory. All who are worthy to enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage will have that opportunity, whether in this life or the next. Terrestrial Kingdom Those who inherit terrestrial glory will "receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father. Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun" Generally speaking, individuals in the terrestrial kingdom will be honorable people "who were blinded by the craftiness of men" This group will include members of the Church who were "not valiant in the testimony of Jesus" It will also include those who rejected the opportunity to receive the gospel in mortality but who later received it in the postmortal spirit world (These are people that studied the church and knew it was true yet declined to join) Telestial Kingdom Telestial Glory will be reserved for "individuals who "received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus (in other words, liars thieves, etc) These individuals will receive their glory after being redeemed form "spirit prison", which is sometimes called hell Perdition Some people will not be worthy to dwell in any kingdom of glory. They will be called "the sons of perdition" and will have to "abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory" This will be the state of "those who know [God's] power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy [God's] power" ( It takes a conscious decision to serve and follow the devil to be sent here)