templelady

Thought of something else while in the shower Sometimes we post not so much as to inform, although that might be a side benefit But we post because we just got the courage to haul that "lock box" out of the cobwebby corner of our minds, hack off the rusty corroded padlock, and are experiencing a catharsis as we finally expose the ugly contents to the light of day.

:)

waterbuffalo MIND??? Flattered beyond belief

CK the purpose of this site is really easy to understand THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

Surely thou jest in Mikese ask me for the scriptures = I will give you my interpretation of PFAL, change the subject, obscure the subject, give you scriptures that have nothing to do with the topic at hand I have learned my lesson

That one sentance explains a great deal I have been heretofore unable to grasp in your thought processes, thank you for the enlightenment.

After eight years of study, you are UNABLE to provide requested scripture references. Face it, If they aren't there after eight years of study, they aren't there--so why should I open the books to look for something that you have so clearly demonstrated isn't available because it isn't there???

Although I regard tongues as a method of communicating between different groups of people when needed, I certainly have no problem with the idea that it is used for praising God "though I speak with the tongues of men and angels..." CES sounds like they are much more in harmony with scripture on this just MO

It's not arrogance Mike, It's a lack of reasons why I should, Reasons for me to study PFAL again would have to be Scripturally based I will give you an example of what I mean from the Book Of MORMON (yes Allen, I am citing my religious beliefs for clarification of a point, you want further discussion , go to the LDS thread) Mormon 8 38 O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies—because of the praise of the world? for this verse there are are footnotes (LDS Scriptures) Romans 1:16, 3:16; 2 Timothy 1:8; 1 Nephi 8:25, 13:9: Alma 46:21 Mosiah 3:25 Going to Romans 1:16 we find more footnotes Psalms 119:36; Matthew 10:32-33; 1 Corinthians 1:18; 2 Corinthians 15:2 ; 2 Timothy 1:12, 2:10-15; Peter 1:5; 2 Nephi 31:12-21; Doctrine and Covenants 68:4; 101: 1-5 plus reference to the topical guide for more in depth discussion You can then go to these scriptures find more footnotes etc. each building, clarifying and expanding on the others until a complete picture is formed. All the scriptures in the LDS Church are thus referenced and cross referenced Each time I do this I find more to explore, more questions to answer. And I pursue them because I have a scriptural foundation under my feet, Not because My bishop tells me it is there, but because I have held the scriptures in my hand, read them and followed the "scriptural chains" for myself so far on your side of the fence I see PFAL I see the Bible But in depth Scriptural chains are not there for many claims of PFAL, and, since you don't provide them when pressed to do so, my only conclusion is that they don't exist. As for studying eight years to "master" PFAL, do you really think God expects us to have to wait eight years before even his most basic truths are revealed to us??? Not hardly, He wants his children to have the knowledge now in clear and understandable form.

Since you have further clarified that these are Trivialities (of little substance or significance; not large enough to consider or notice) The error of the concepts of "appropriating" and "legal rights" regarding PFALs position regarding prayer have been clearly demonstrated and I am moving on to other topics.

Where???? Which ones??? It's not my PFAL assertions. They are YOUR PFAL assertions therefore, this is YOUR homework So let me see if I understand your position correctly: You have a supply of scripture that backs up your assertions But you aren't going to post them because if we settle the question of "Rights" in prayer then I might have criticisms of PFAL in other areas Therefore you would be wasting your time "me thinks thou dost protest too much" Having failed to post said citations I will proceed without them since you yourself don't feel it worth your time to post them for my consideration, If they exist at all, which at this point, from my perception based on your posts, is extremely doubtful That said, it is time for me to stand by my original statement and move on Of course if at anytime you wish to post the requested citations from the Bible I will reconsider my position

[quote]Sometimes an idea has a modern word to describe it but no ancient words. Sometimes it's the other way around. This is also often the case with comparing any two languages, leaving out the ancient versus modern notion. Mike, Don't chance the topic to Concepts Re read what you posted above. I want a Specific verse where, when dealing with Sonship legal rights in regards to the obtaining of needs in prayer, A modern word was used because there were no ancient words I want a specific verse where, when dealing with Sonship legal rights in regards to the obtaining of needs in prayer, an ancient word was used because there are no modern words This is really simple Either they exist , in which case You'll post them or they don't exist , evidenced by your not posting them If they don't exist, clearly I won't have to consider the non-existent in further conversations on this subject

NO it's not self evident, as you put it, unless you offer citations (chapter and Verse) of what passages you are referring too. You can't just airily proclaim its in the Bible unless you can demonstrate where in the Bible Mike you can't compare tth two and you know it. Some portions of the OT were divided into Verses as early as 586 BC and the Bible divided as we know it was in about 1524. The whole purpose of dividing it was so as to be able to refer to specific passages as needed. This is completely different from claiming that the Bible says "chapter and Verses" Unless, please tell me you don't, you think that chapter and Verse was a concept the VPW "discovered'????

so I wonder what the reaction of a man would be upon returning home to find, no wife no kids, just a donkey in the living room?

Thank you Raf :)

Actually Mike, Study Lights, which is where I acquired the further info on Exousia uses the American Standard Translation The "idea" of rights?? Chapter and verse please since you are the one who brought this into play. the "Word" is the Bible PFAL is PFAL

Appropriating = a deliberate act of acquisition. Acquisition= the act of contracting or assuming or acquiring possession of something. The use of Appropriating puts all the authority on the acquirer-It is as if God is denied the power to say NO legal rights???? there are only three places in the entire Bible that use the word "right" as it is used in this context the word "geullah" in the Old Testament Ruth 4 [6] And the kinsman said, I cannot redeem it for myself, lest I mar mine own inheritance: redeem thou my right to thyself; for I cannot redeem it. and the word "exousia" (in the sense of ability); privilege, i.e. (subjectively) force, capacity, competency, freedom, or (objectively) mastery (concretely, magistrate, superhuman, potentate, token of control), delegated influence:--authority, jurisdiction, liberty, power, right, strength in the New Testament Hebrews 13 [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. Revelation 22 [14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Other places we find Exousia “Exousia” describes first the freedom of God to act (Luke 15:5; Acts 1:7) Second, it signifies the divinely given power and authority of Jesus Christ as deriving from the Father (Matthew 28:18; John 10:18; John 17:2), enabling Him to forgive sin (Mark 2 :10), and signifying His [Jesus Christ] power to heal and to expel demons, which He gave His disciples (Mark 13:15) Third, it describes the freedom God gives His people for salvation (John 1:12) and from legalism (1 Corinthians 6:12). Fourth, it denotes the authority God imparted to the leaders to build up the church (2 Corinthians 10:8; 13:10). Fifth, “exousia” signifies the power God displayed through agents of destruction in the last days (Revelation 6:8; 9:3; 9:10; 9:19; 14:18;16:9; 18:1) Sixth, the word denotes the dominion God allows Satan to exercise (Acts 26:18; Ephesians 2:2). Seventh, it describes the “authorities” created by God, both heavenly (Colossians 1:16) and secular (Romans 13:1; Titus 3:1). http://www.studylight.org/dic/hbd/view.cgi?number=T566 None of these instances even hint that we have legal right or authority to expect our request to be automatically granted

Bagpipes

A traditional Haiku (Japanese poetry) is three lines 5 syllables 7 syllables 5 syllables here is mine to the quintessential Easter confection-- huddled together yellow, soft, Easter delight voiceless, waiting PEEPS

I remember watching AOS here in Alaska. The lights came up everybody is Oohing and Awing "what spiritual perception" "isn't it wonderful". I was sitting there thinking, "What" "huh" in fact my bewilderment was all I remembered years later when found Waydale, not much else. So one day I was over at Digi's and I find the AOS tape. So for a lark we pop in in and sit and watch. Memories came flooding back about my reaction to the production. I did theater in High school and college, the whole gamut, sets, makeup, costuming, design, acting. the sets in that production wouldn't have made a production in my high school--juvenile doesn't come close. The "dancing"=aerobics the Message= message wasn't the point IMO just showcasing LCM I have since talked to my son in Utah. He loves to dance, loves music, writes music, plays guitar., BUT HE WILL NOT WATCH dance productions, not Riverdance, Feet of Flames, etc etc WHY?? because SD made the kids watch AOS over and over when he was watching them and my son is still totally turned off by dance productions because of this first exposure to them

"VPW is no GUARANTEE for truth."

1) Alaska has 6 times the national average of reported child sexual assault. does that necessarily mean that we have more cases or just that the rest of the states are underreported ? I don't know 2) the population of the state of Alaska is 626,932. that means if, as a hypothetical figure we have, 350 cases a year that would be 5.58% of the population. That again is for reported cases. not all cases are found to be factual, in fact there is quite a bit of unsubstantiated abuse charges thrown around in divorce and custody cases and other cases that just don't pan out Compare that to the Eastern half of the state of Washington which has a population of 1,371,802. You would have to have 68,590 reported cases in order to reach 5.58% 3) we have a "culture shock problem" here in Alaska. Outside of the major population areas most people live in villages, and those villagers are mostly Alaska Native Americans. Bush Alaska has no roads. Many villages, if they have electricity at all, only have it in say the school and the general store, it's just cost prohibitive to have it in private housing. Many villages have no septic or sewer systems, Food as we think of food has to barged in on the rivers or brought in by small plane $6-$8 for a regular can of corn is the going rate with other supplies commensurate. Why I am tell you all this is These people, for the most part, live just as their Ancestors did, Subsistence based. Sons are hunting by age 6 often bringing home their first kill at 7, and I mean A moose or caribou, not a bunny rabbit. Girls at the same age, are cooking, cleaning and caring for babies. Many families live in one room cabins. It is not unusual for an 8-10 year old to be left weeks at a time; while parents are out hunting and fishing or otherwise engaged; caring for the house and siblings -- that means cutting, wood, hauling water, cooking, etc etc etc. Needless to say there are no Secrets when it comes to sex, or babies or anything else. In this culture a girl is a women when she hits 12 ditto a boy. And here lies the problem, at 13 she is a woman both in what she knows and her ability to make decisions, act on them, and fill her place in her society. these "girls" are far more mature than their city bred contemporaries. So in that culture for a 20 year old to have relations with a 13-14 year old ranks about on the same par as a 23 and a 30 year old in "our world" Enter the Indian Child Protection Act--enacted to protect children in the lower 48's, But lower 48 natives aren't living in the culture of 1840, so there it works but in Alaska you have the dichotomy of a women who is a "adult" in every sense of the word as we understand it being called a "child" by a social worker, who could care less about reality as long as the figures on the paper say they are "fighting sexual abuse of minors among the native population" I, who hate child molesters with all my being , have a real problem with this violation of the "spirit of the law". And this violation, IMO, vastly inflates the numbers for Alaska

Rhino :) Thou hast slandered and profaned the good name of cats everywhere

Y'all Be careful there Mistah Strange, I be fixin to start a sawing with my saw, right up da' cen'er of ma' state I is I is

I'll have you know that on my birth mothers maternal line I can claim membership in the daughters of the Confederacy, mhuh, SO there!