templelady

Never, have asked that anyone reject PFAL. My posts almost always deal with the behaviors of leadership. The fact is, that some posters who hold on to PFAL have the idea that to attack leadership somehow invalidates PFAL, thus the issue becomes their refusal to see the abuse perpetrated by leadership in some cases. If you use PFAL or its teaching to support such behavior or justify it then, PFAL becomes part of the topic at hand. Vastly different than trying to proselytize someone into abandoning their belief system

Tom that would be point 2. Distancing would probably be more accurate, but in the interest of not getting bogged down I let it go. :)

1) PFAL is "God breathed" You accept this point as one you have made then go on to talk about 22 claims (not proofs) you have posted. I was quite specific-- I want Book, page number, and quote from written PFAL to support this. As for the time involved you probably took 30-40 minutes if not more to post the reply you gave. You could have done what I asked in under 15 since I am sure you have read the material enough that you have it memorized or close to it. 2) We don't need any versions of the Bible anymore, only PFAL. you dispute this is one of your positions so it is off the table 3) Christ is currently learning from PFAL and will be teaching from PFAL materials when he returns "I don't think there are going to be any passages that help you believe this. " in other words this is an extrapolation by you and not found in VPWs written form of PFAL 4) Betraying Dr's revelations is betraying God. again, by your own admission, an extrapolation by you and not found in VPW"s written PFAL 5) Studying PFAL will defeat death again, by your own admission, an extrapolation by you and not found in VPW"s written PFAL 6) I feel that VPW should be the final authority on what PFAL says or doesn't say, after all he wrote the books we are in agreement here Mike, it is irrelevant what my thought processes are. YOU are the one who keeps exhorting us to come back the the Written PFAL. The PFAL written by VPW. I posted five points regarding certain claims made. One point we have dismissed as not yours, the remaining four points you have not been able to provide a single quote from VPWs written PFAL that supports them. By your own admission, VPW is the final authority about what is or isn't in written PFAL. The reality is that you ARE NOT teaching VPWs written PFAL here on this forum. You are teaching Mike's extrapolation of VPWs written PFAL. Not the same thing. Do I mind that you are teaching extrapolation?, no. What I mind is you trying to shore up your extrapolations by claiming that they are found in VPWs written PFAL when they clearly aren't. Get honest with yourself, and the rest of us and admit that what you are propounding on this thread is not VPWs work but your own.

agreed

I am sure that VPWs family have a far more complete and comprehensive picture than we will ever have. I seriously doubt that, when all is said and done, they have any concern at all about any of our opinions.

I've talked to my dad, my great grandfather, My paternal grandmother who I never knew (she died when I was 9 months old, My dad, My mom, Lorna's mom, my maternal grandparents. Does that mean they come to Tea?--no but I feel their presence round about me. I have seen a vision of my dad. And when My grandmothers last sister died my grandmother came to me and showed me her and her sisters, and her brother and my great grandparents all together by the side of a beautiful pond with green grass and the sun shining, they were all together and laughing. It brought me great comfort

Question one relates to which TWI you were in TWI1 TWI2 or TWI3 does that help???

Thanks for taking the time to post. New information is always good

with mushrooms, fresh tomatoes and italian sauage!!!

BBB[b+][D-]BFEC

I guess the short answer for me, is I approach GOD with no expectations, but I approach him the knowledge (my knowledge, maybe not yours or anyone else's) that he is there and listening. IMO TWI tried to bring GOD down to our level. God isn't at my level, (which is really a good thing considering how badly I screw things up on a routine basis) He's on a level far above me he not only sees my trees and, my whole forest that encompasses them, but all the other trees and all the other forests and so makes his decisions based on the good of all the forests. It's like the ad where the butterfly in Brazil flaps it's wings and the resulting ripple culminates in a hearty gust of wind in New York. All things work together, and if we don't get the answer we desire then it is, IMO, because the actual answer is necessary so that another person can do something else that impacts a third person and so on --the ultimate result is us all returning to GOD in the end. Sometimes thinking of the picture so big, that I in my finite mortality can't even comprehend the size of it much less the variables involved, helps me understand that I am not the only person God is responsible for and I can't expect to get what I want if in doing so it will either harm or hinder another of his children.

Thank you for responding To be clear Since the red drape scenario is not in the books, would it be safe to say that we can discard this as not of as much worth as it would have been if it had been in the books? Heres another: for needs and wants parallel, the book uses the word balanced in place of parallel a few times. Wow, doesn't this change the whole thrust of getting your needs and wants parallel? Parallel indicating something running side by side in the same direction. Balance indicating something different--- while a cup of Sugar and a cup of Sugar weigh the same. A cup of lead and a cup of Sugar are vastly different in weight. It would take many cups of sugar to get the scales in balance. So which is it parallel or balanced? Does it matter? Is one applicable in one situation and another in another? which Is preferable? HOw do we determine which is necessary in a given situation? What do the books say??

Sister Margaret dies and approaches the pearly gates where she is met by St Peter. He welcomes her profusely then says "Sister, We are having a bit of a housing shortage here so we are having to double up on the overflow, However we have rented some condos from Satan and you being such an exemplary example of a Christian we know you would be okay there for a few days while we get your mansion ready." Sister Margaret agrees and heads for her temporary housing. The next morning St Peter calls and Says "how are things going" and Sister Margaret says "Last night I went to a party and danced all night with different men" St Peter says "that's okay, you've led such a perfect life that will be no problem at this stage". The second morning St Peter calls and Sister says " last night I went to another party and danced all night with different men and got falling down drunk. And St Peter says, "Not to worry we'll have your housing ready in 48 hours." The morning of the third day Sister Margaret calls St Peter and says "Hey Pete, cancel my reservations!"

Since I am such a bad follower of the birthday threads: belated, early and current Gelukkige Verjaardag, Joyeux Anniversaire, Alles Gute zum Geburtstage, Buon Compleanno, Feliz aniversario, Feliz Cumpleaos, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, To all of you

Accusatory ,Yes But Sick-no, what Is SICKENING is VPWs ATTITUDE toward Hitler --no matter how you slant it. Hitler gained power over Germany by appealing to the German people's pride and hurt over being the downtrodden "whipping boy" of the rest of Europe for centuries. He garnered vast amounts of support from a population still hurting from the beating of WWI by the promises of bringing unity and making Germany a country that the rest of Europe would finally show much delayed respect to. This was not out of any concern for the German people, their pride or their dignity (Hitler himself wasn't German but an Austrian) but merely a stepping stone so that he could assume the position that his megalomaniac mind had convinced him he was entitled too. There was nothing to recommend Hitler to anybody, He was a pompous, tyrannical , psychopathic, syphilis ridden, pedophile, and mass murderer with delusions of grandeur. .to find anything laudable about his position is Sick

Please show specific instances where Oral PFAL (heard through tape and "film" ) is different from "written" PFAL. Please cite where VPW said that we are only to master written information. Please cite from written PFAL the passages that support these claims PFAL is "God breathed" We don't need any versions of the Bible anymore, only PFAL.PFAL is the Word of God, that the Holy Spirit has provided us with His Word in written form in PFAL, and it (PFAL) carries all the authority of God Almighty. Christ is currently learning from PFAL and will be teaching from PFAL materials when he returns. Betraying Dr's revelations is betraying God. Studying PFAL will defeat death. Also Please fell free to disprove or refute any of the above assertions, as either untrue, or untrue and never stated by you. I feel that VPW should be the final authority on what PFAL says or doesn't say, after all he wrote the books This will be of great benefit to new posters who are here for the first time. It will also be of great benefit to myself and other posters who are still waiting for the citations and have been waiting since Feb 9 2006, at 04:11 PM when the original PFAL thread was started. I"ll, even make a promise to you--Show me from written PFAL where these points are actually supported and I'll find myself copies and reread them. YOU have my word on it -ANd I never break my word

Wow, How wonderful for your daughter, her team and your family :)

YEOCH!!! Does that bring up the past. Took me a long time not to cringe at the very word "believing". Even now I have to take a millisecond pause to check that I am in the hear and now when I hear it used. Using "believing" in the way TWI used is , sort of a wellness measure -them vs us-, colors your experience out of TWI. Because "Believing" is core to our lives both in and out of church, we believe in God or not, we believe that our spouses love us, we believe our children are telling the truth, we believe our boss when he says we are doing well. Corruption of the meaning of "Believing had and has a long term effect in our lives, period.

*****BRACE YOURSELVES***** Actually that isn't very far off from what the I believe IS POSSIBLE. By, saying it's Possible I am indicating that not every believer automatically gets everything or even more to the point WANTS everything (there are probably a good number of people who are believers who would be just as happy not having Signs and Miracles popping up in their lives like mushrooms, if the truth be told. Could probably be unsettling and difficult to explain to the neighbors--just my take here) But the scripture does say "be ye perfect as Christ is perfect and one of the core tenets of my faith is the "perfecting of the saints." Rome wasn't built in a day and we all proceed at our own pace and God works with each individual. SO yes on the surface, I would say TWI had it right. The downfall came when there was suddenly an elite in TWI who was more special, more deserving, more worthy, more in tune More of everything and the resulting abuse and legalism that resulted

Now I know why I have come to prefer cats over dogs (love dogs just prefer cats for myself) I have always been one to tread where angels fear to go!

From my time in the Way, from reading TMOTSM and other literature circulating my part of the country in TWI, from TWI"s attitude not only to those outside it's "Walls" but it's attitude toward those of the less fortunate within it's "Walls" YES THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I THINK

Allan Dear. I'm so sorry, I left for a day of non-computer and fellow humans and I return to find you in the middle of a firestorm during a rousing game with teams "It's MY Job to Ferret out the Heathen" and team "We're all GSers Lets Set Some Ground Rules". I just wanted to take the time to let you know that I am feeling fine, the walls of my glass house are still in good repair, and my wacky beliefs are perking along happily in my mind. I see half time is over the field is reassembling , need to let you get back, good luck. And oh yes I have found this wonderful new Substance, clear Jasper You might want to consider using it for repairs around your place, I mean if it will hold salt water Croc and a Great White Shark.... oops sorry brought that in from another thread CHARGE!!!!

Being from the Pro-TWI faction does not make you any of the above. but after you have been here for several years there are some tells that you can pick up on really quickly after a several posts. 1. Refusal on a steadfast basis to answer questions while asking questions, designed to elicit information as to dates, places and or identifying information about a poster, especially a poster who may be still in or have family who are in 2. Repeated hit and run posts. asking question that stir up controversy, while failing to answer any resulting responses. 3. Any poster who consistently makes posts whose primary purpose is to derail, confuse, or otherwise disrupt the flow of a thread on to an extreme degree These patterns become really obvious after posts of several days duration, In some cases the tells are there almost immediately, with posters who lack finesse. Please note that there are several posters here that I would place in the Pro-VPW camp that I would not characterize as any of the above. Trolls, WayGB, and Plants have a certain "flavor" to their posts that is easily recognizable, one of the most noticeable being the inability to sway them onto a tangential discussion, Like the boat in "The Enemy Below"-w Robert Mitchum they always return to the original course. That said Flaming is always wrong, even when done by me <_< Flaming consists of character attacks, name callig as well as demeaning personal attacks

Why is it so bloody difficult for some of the VPW camp to just come out and say "VPW was wrong in his admiration of Hitler"? Does saying that VPW was wrong , somehow, make him of less stature? Must he be right on every POV in order for him to be a Leader? because This is what I am hearing on this and other threads --any suggestion that VPW was wrong about anything seems to threaten to topple the whole belief system that surrounds him in some VPW supporter eyes. And if this is the case, maybe the question shold be, "if even one error will make the house of cards fall , why Am I involved or still following such an unstable structure?"

ATTENTION ONE AND ALL First Annual Block Party Sunday the 8th of Priam Get there early to listen to the Clarion Bells in the New Bell Tower ring in the morning 8AM Breakfast Buffet catered by the Who's at Horton's place 9AM March in the parade, to the tune "Men of Harlech" played by the clarion bells, from Horton's to the vacant field north of the Jackson Estate and west of the Sparrow Inlet. 9:30 AM to 2 PM Reenactment of the Battle of Fredericksburg. Join in the fun, bring your own Musket or rent one from "Cousteau's Deep Sea Recoveries" booth. Snacks, and cool drinks on sale throughout the event by the crew of 'The Black Pearl" along with period costumes 2PM to 5PM :) Barbecue at Lady Farkletush's on both patios BYOM everything else provided. :) 6PM closing ceremonies Cannonade by the real Civil war cannons following by The NIGHT FLIGHT OF THE BATS Thrill to their close order formations as they perform complex patterns in the air as they depart the bell tower for the evening hunt ALL DAY EVENTS FOR KIDS AND ADULTS Care and feeding of salt Water Crocs-- Get the chance to have your photograph taken with "Graham" while feeding him chickens from the viewing platform (6 mites) Aquarium tours all day at the Cousteau "Seas of the world Theme Park" located in the Cousteau Mansion courtyard. Children under ten free Adults (3 mites) Take a guided tour of a working gold mine -Buy your own bucket of dirt (5 mites) and look for nuggets put on by the "Kin of Gimli" Free poetry readings by C3PO Strafing runs over the sand dunes with Chewbacca in the Original Millennium Falcon(2 drachma) SORRY, ADULTS ONLY COME ONE COME ALL -LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU THERE