templelady

What about those who leave in the rapture? Many who are left behind will have a knowledge of the gospel,. many will have known it to be true but, for whatever reason chose not to follow Christ. NOW that He has come and gone, is there a chance for them to repent of their behavior? Will they be able to follow Christ and be redeemed at the second coming? How will they manage now that the Holy GHost has been withdrawn? Will they be required to fulfill the law? There are many questions I have about this time period I would be interested in what others have to say on these matters

I have bo desire to live in a theocracy, of any form. THe problem with a theocracy is that no matter which sect has the upper hand to start with eventually the whole thing rots from within.

Mike what you don't seem to understand is that when Jesus Christ returns it is over, NO more teaching, No more Holy Spirit (not needed when Christ himself is present) no more prophecy, sit, Interpretation ,faith, healing, raising from the dead etc etc. Done, finis, over. The sands of the hour glass have run out. IF you aren't HIs then you dont get to go along for the ride. that simple. I sense you have not fully grasped the enormity of that day, you seem to think there is a side door where you will have more time, to study, to understand, to listen for revelation, to get in tune with Heavenly father. There won't be "comes as a thief in the night" "in the twinkling of an eye" should give you a clue that once that trump sounds the time for repentance, for accepting Christ as Lord, the Grace administration if that phraseology is more helpful, O V E R

Mike is having real problems with understanding NO PM's. He is having so much trouble that he went ahead and sent one anyway, no e-mails though. So, Since I told Mike no "backdoor conversations" and I meant no "backdoor conversations" here is the PM for all to see Interesting since you claimed that you were PMIng me last week and they were bouncing back--So which is it Last week?, Yesterday? ,never? couldn't have looked too hard since the button that says send Email and the button that says send PM Are right next to each other and I know you can find the PM one, Or maybe not since this is the first PM I've received . Yep, the dyslexia does that, sorry Moderators can read communication just fine right here on the forums itself, chaperone too-no doubt in anyone's mind what is or isn't said. So, let's just keep it all out in the open since I have nothing o say that I wouldn't say to God himself Mike, what we are dealing with is what in my day was called "projection" you are claiming I have your faults to justify your faults. I "dare" as you put it because this is my life And I get to decide how I am willing to communicate with other Human beings Discuss what? You mail the books, I said I'd pay for shipping, no discussion needed, certainly not any discussion in secret. As for God not being God well I'll let you explain to Him He isn't Him. You aren't in charge of my communications, I am. And I certainly am when you use said communications to imply I am somehow deceptive or that Heavenly Father isn't Heavenly Father. Send the books, don't send the books, it is your reputation

Since PFAL was written over 25 years ago--Any recent revelations are not from PFAL but from you. I accept that I am now dealing with Mikeian Doctrine here, and I state that I disagree with said doctrine Mike if I walk into my kitchen and see the stove on fire, I do not need spiritual revelation to know that my stove is on fire. The five senses do just fine in imparting this information to me. Spiritual revelation is for those things that are not clear from the five sense perspective. Likewise If I see dead bodies rising up from the ground all around me and I start rapidly accelerating into the air , I need no spiritual revelation to tell me what is happening, My sense of eyesight, and the knowledge taht my body is in motion will serve me quite well. As for "You’re saying that from your perspective the five senses realm is more real than the spiritual" that is again, why should I not be surprised, Mikeian spin doctoring at it's finest. A blanket allegation that in in no way supported by the topic under discussion much less How the poster, In this case myself, actually feels or thinks.

In my initial post telling Mike where to find my mailing address I said it was to the right instead of the left. Mike used this error as the foundation for telling me I wasn't "calm" plus a slew of other character assassination phrases. He also seems to think it was some sort of trap set by me,. In actuality it is what is called dyslexia, a medical condition. However, I am now prepared for Mike to spend two days expounding on how I am inhabited by a devil spurt (perhaps the spirit of Left Right Confusion?? ) It finally clicked what has been bothering me, The insistence on PM's the experiences of other posters. Supplying books is "intimate"???? I receive books from people all the time and give them books, That doesn't imply any sort of intimacy on our parts. There is nothing intimate about Mike and my acquaintance on these boards and certainly no relationship off these boards, intimate or otherwise, nor do I desire for there to be one. Whatever else you have in mind besides just sending the promised books, forget about it , Mike!

Sorry, will be vacationing in 2 weeks then back home to cover for my co-workers vacation--Sounds llike fun too

:) :) ( dmiller already said what I wanted too)

Mike I have recieved no messages from you except for what is on this thread, since I first agreed to reread the books.. I even checked my blocked mail list and my spam guard in case a message got inadvertantly hung up there, nope nada. still waiting, if you gets the books in the mail (priority) by Tuesday they should make it to Alaska by the !5th with no problem

In my case what you have dodged is the opportunity given to you by God to show yourself a man of integrity who keeps his word. Earlier I posted that It was through the promptings of the Holy Spirit that I was led to ask you for the books you have so long offered. Even as I followed those promptings, after several days of resistance on my part, Heavenly Father was showing me that you would not follow through on your word. But you have always had freedom of choice, Even though God knew what your initial response would be ----namely a methodology by which you could avoid sending the books----, He has not taken from you the opportunity to repent of your actions and supply the requested materials as you have previously promised on several occasions. The ball is in your court, You can stand up and be a man of integrity and follow through on your word, (the original word , not the dodging you have done ever since I agreed to reread the books), or you can show yourself to the world as a fraud. God has left the choice in your hands. See that you choose wisely

Where are the dead bodies? in the ground. Where then are they rising from? the earth, real tangible earth, If they are rising, they are rising upwards in other words, in the air. The Bible is also very specific about the order of the resurrection first the dead bodies will rise, AND ONLY Jesus Christ can call forth the dead, and then we who are still alive will be caught up in the air to meet him. If nothing else will demonstrate that it is the Real Jesus Christ the sight of millions of graves opening ( not just in cemeteries but wherever a body may be) and the dead bodies rising from them will be enough to convince even the most doubting among us. Sometimes, Air is air, Earth is earth and clouds are clouds. This is one of those times. This description is of a real time event that will be tangible to all in the five senses realm --no need to try to make it into an esoteric mental exercise.

To continue on the topic of Jesus Christs return. He won't be coming to earth on the first return we will meet him in the clouds. That is why scripture warns against listening to those who say "he is here" or "he is there"

Mike, You can rant , rave, fume, blather, dither, and foam at the mouth' til the cows come home. I said it once, I repeated it as a quote, and WW re posted it "I AM NOT HAVING ANY BACKDOOR CONVERSTATIONS WITH YOU" That's three times NO PMs has been repeated Why? because there is absolutely no need too. You package up the books you put my name on said package you take said package to the post office and mail it I have offered to help defray expenses. On the same page that says send a PM it says send an e-mail. YOU HAVE NOT DONE SO. When you get right down to it, an email is no different than a PM, except, I have control over the contents of any emails I might receive as opposed to having to respect "confidentiality" with a PM. So again the question becomes what is it you want to say to me that can't bear the scrutiny of everyone else on these boards or even more to the point ; what do you have to say to me that you are afraid of anyone else finding out you said? You have had no problem up to this point in saying whatever you darn well pleased to every body, why get shy now?? In short, Send the books as you promised, or don't send the books and again display your true character.. I weary of this dialog, and suspect that the problem is far greater that your unwillingness to send the books; I begin to suspect that your actions on this matter as well as your actions on this thread are because YOU YOURSELF DO NOT HAVE COPIES OF ALL THE BOOKS, much less extra copies to send to me

When of two things will happen when he returns, either I'll find myself rapidly accelerating toward Him from the earth--In which case I'll know it's Him, OR everybody around me will instantly disappear, In which case I'll know He's been and gone. Either way, And I Sincerely pray it is the former, I'll know it's Him.

When Jesus Christ returns the time for teaching will be past. Christ won't be returning with scripture in his hand of any sort, he'll be returning to gather the saints. Once we stand before GOD and Jesus Christ, all things will become clear "now we see through a glass darkly...." This reality has nothing to do with what church you belong too, it is what it is. By my callculations the books , If they are coming at all should arrive here, in about a week, given Mothers Day is coming up I'll adjust for mail volume and say I expect them by the 15th. I of course will be happy to help defray expenses--I can pay through Paypal (with a valid e-mail) or send a cashiers check. As with all posters , it is possible to contact me through e-mail by use of the settings available when clicking on my name. Mike has not yet made use of this opportunity.

I'd got to a TWIG meeting to check it out, but leave the LDS Church -NOt hardly :)

And if the idea of "Church" is a little overwhelming for you, check in your local paper for meetings of people who share a common interest, like, knitting, or cooking, or birding, whatever. Or, pick a group of an activity you have always wanted to try. Groups are thrilled to have new members, and you'll bypass the whole doctrine issue

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What part of "What could you possibly need to say to me that can't be posted here on the boards for everyone to see. I'm not having (back door) conversations with you that you can twist into something else down the road. What you need to say post here". Was unclear??? Me I'm perfectly calm. I gave you the opportunity, (after much prompting by the Holy Spirit BTW) straight forward and above board, send me the books (as you have offered more than once ) and I will reread them. But deep in my heart of hearts, I knew, because God gave me Word of Knowledge, that this was just a ploy on your part, (since you figured no one would take you up on the offer, least of all me). NO longer can you claim to all and sundry, as you have so many times before, that none of us are willing to come back to PFAL; because when faced with a poster, myself, who agrees to do just that, you immediately set up a new series of conditions so that you don't have to provide the books. Conditions you already knew were not acceptable. I must confess that I am disappointed that you are behaving exactly as I was told by Heavenly Father you would behave once I agreed to reread the books. I still held to the hope that you would actually supply the books so that a meaningful dialog could take place on this thread, with both of us having access to the same material. There is only one reason for setting up this new scenario, knowing full well I will not agree to your new conditions: and that is that you DO NOT want a meaningful discussion about PFAL, and I doubt you ever have. VPW used others work and claimed it was his own to gain acceptance. You on the other hand, use your work and claim it is VPWs in order to gain acceptance. This is not a dialog about PFAL this is a dialog about the "Doctrine and Dogma of Mike", always has been - I will continue to post to this thread on occasion, but never again, will I be lured into the trap of thinking that this thread in any way is part and parcel of the PFAL I remember and learned from, this is your catechises pure and simple

T-bone, your wife is a very lucky woman

Again you miss what is written right in front of you I clearly said ( in red) I would Reread them (since I have already read them before) and you completely blow off this statement like it was never made ( in orange). My second point (in blue) was that after rereading them I would post exact quotes to respond to points and question by, not only you, but other posters as well, something I might add, that you keep insisting we do rather than expect you to do it. Your response (in green) is that by doing this I would be tearing them apart. Really? so you are telling me that posting exact quotes of what VPW said in the written PFAL is tearing the books apart if I do it but when you do it with the film class and written PFAL it is okay???, I am totally confused, Quotes is quotes Being called a "social butterfly" and implying that I only go/went to church LDS or TWI or other only for social concerns not spiritual concerns isn't attacking my Character??!!?!? What else would you call it, pray tell ?? And then, to add icing to the cake, you attack my character again by implying I wasn't primarily in a learning mode when I took PFAL 14 + years ago, How in the bloody blue blazes would you KNOW?? you weren't there, You have no Idea how many hours I spent studying and reading the collateral's. What could you possibly need to say to me that can't be posted here on the boards for everyone to see. I'm not having (back door) conversations with you that you can twist into something else down the road. What you need to say post here

Okay MIke you're on, my address is to the right. Send me those books and I'll reread them. I'll post direct quotes from them to your points as well as other posters questions.

Quit talking about me and get on track with the message and we can have a conversation, but I will not tolerate your trying to mold me into your wishes all the while rejecting and trying to subvert very important questions I have.

Am I supposed to be frightened by this, Upset by this? The same can be said of you too. YOU are the one who has repeatedly chastised posters, on this thread and on others, for citing material from the Tapes instead of sticking to written PFAL. You can't have it both ways, either everything is in, in which case you need to stop demanding that the rest of us stick to or rediscover written PFAL, or you need to stick to written PFAL, of course that is a problem when what you claim is from written PFAL in fact isn't found in written PFAL The fact is I didn't get your instructions wrong. You just changed from the previous instructions to new ones. I suspect you have taken this avenue since you were unable to provide documentation for my original questions from written PFAL. Actually there are Books plural and VPW referred to them as collaterals, the definition of collateral is "accompanying as secondary or subordinate" so by VPWs own words written PFAL is secondary or subordinate to the Film class. They are for support of the Film class not the other way around.*** Please compare my statement (in red) with your statement in (in fuchsia) and you will note that I very specifically referred to both the written PFAL and the film PFAL in my response to your response. . Where to start1. I took PFAL 24 years ago and it appears that I retain more of printed PFAL than you do since you can't seem to find any direct quotes from written PFAL in answer to requests to provide same 2. your suspicions on both counts are wrong. I am not a social butterfly, more than 10 people in a room for maore than 2 hours makes me queasy and I much prefer studying and writing to "cocktail chatter ". That must be why in my stint in TWI I usually gave a least one teaching a week, usually two, and in the LDS Church I am a Gospel Doctrine teacher as well as the ward historian. 3 considering the number of LDS there are in the world and considering that you probably don't know more than 200 and that's being generous I would say that you have a very small pool from which to gather any reliable data about what LDS do or don't do with their time. I do find the use of the phrase "waste as much time" particularly telling. A Freudian slip perhaps, indicating that you post here not so much out of a desire to enlighten as a desire to have something to do. IS it possible that this is YOUR ONLY Social interaction??? Actually you are busted, You cannot provide evidence from written PFAL to support your contentions because by your own admission, it doesn't exist in VPW works.You have elevated the collaterals to a status higher than the filmed class in direct contradiction to VPW's own point of view. You have personally attacked me through outright falsehood, innuendo, and character assassination. There is a poster on these forums who has cited many objections about my faith, even he has never sunk to the depths you have with your falsehoods about my character. He at least has some knowledge about What LDS teach and believe, you clearly demonstrate that you lack even that much understanding, which is hardly surprising since you are unable to grasp the difference between what is printed on a page and what is going on only in your mind. I hereby challenge YOU to come back to written PFAL. Just as it was written by VPW, no extrapolations, no interpretations, no Mikeian ideology. I realize that that is a tremendous blow to your ego, but as long as the subject is PFAL the only words I want to hear in support of PFAL ARE THE WORDS VPW EITHER SPOKE OR WROTE GOT IT??? As for seeing the True GOD, I do every day as He walks beside me on this journey called life.

I'm sorry Mike, Your post about the red drapes has me mystified. All you have done is confirm that this issue in question is not found in Written PFAL. If it's not in Written PFAL, per your instructions it can be ignored. Second I do not find the use of the word "balance either in the written PFAL or the Taped PFAL you quoted so I can see no answer regarding my previous questions on this subject regarding how from written PFAL we are to differentiate when to use which. Please supply direct quotes from VPW's books that explain this. Thank you