templelady

As one who has suffered at the hands of TWI leadership, I have to say that I never experienced kindness at the hands of TWI leadership Ever Period But That said I cannot In good conscience declare that others did not, nor can I in good conscience declare that if they did it was all false kindness. The Holy Spirit works in all -God speaks to all his children whether they listen and respond or not. I think a blanket statement that all kindness at the hands of the "inner circle" dwellers of TWI is a sham is just as harmful and just as wrong as the blanket statements that because kindness was recieved by some the evil didn't happen or if it did it was somehow the victims fault. Extreme positions of any kind lead to fanaticism and fanaticism precludes reasonable examination of facts on a case by case basis

Liguid All detergent in the blue bottle here and the downey ball with the scent free softener. Also I always do a second cold water ririnse (extra rinse) that takes care of the stuff top loaders leave behind As for the labeling Detergents have Ads' on them that tell you how many "loads they are good for like this ""good for 46 loads" "new improved twice the Loads as ordinary "

I have seen both these signs and I'm not having a fit of any kind over it --much less an apocalyptic one and are these signs not more prevalent because of Christians having fits OR because the Buying power of the groups who celebrate these holidays is not as great as the buying power of the collective that buys at Christmas? Methinks it is a dollar, as opposed to a spiritually, driven decision

Thank you Garth for the Holiday wishes

Templelady, Your 'analysis' is flawed for the following reasons: Completely irrelevant--My birthday is January 28th--If one year I decide I am going to celebrate it on March 30th because that is when My relatives are coming to Alaska then, While my Chronological birthday is January 28th, MY Birthday celebration is March 30th--this isn't complicated And your point is???? No one of this negates the fact that for whatever rational or reasons the Celebration of Christ's birth is Dec 25th And where is it written that Christians are only allowed to sing songs about Christ on his birthday---or is this the Book of Garth we are talking about That may be because instead of just celebrating their non-Christian celebrations they at the same time demand that Christians a) not say Merry Christmas, b) do not display Creches anywhere that they may be seen, c) do not sing any kind of :religious" carol anywhere but behind closed doors. I just re read my previous post--didn't say anything about anyone not being allowed to have a party on Dec 25th-- in fact just the opposite---just about them being allowed to declare that those of us who have a party on Dec 25th can;t claim it as Christ's Birthday. Actually I don't care what you call it--or what you say a a part of greeting your fellow humans --What IO care about is the fact that you expect me to go along with it in my personal world-- and to that let me say MERRY CHRISTMAS GARTH!!!!!!!!!!

Okay so let is analyze this statement. It's your birthday There is a group of people who want to come to your party However, They insist the following strictures be put in place You are not to be acknowledged no one can sing you happy birthday In fact, no one can even acknowledge its a birthday party at all UHHH-------- Nope, doesn't cut it the reality is that I and countless others who are Christians celebrate Christmas My Wicca and Pagan brethren celebrate the solstice the rest of you are-- Having an excuse to get together and eat too much , exchange gifts, and enjoy a paid day off work ( in most cases) IS that a bad thing? --of course not But you aren't sharing in Christmas you are simply having a big party on the same day and as such--your party is just another party

And just why must I do that??? I dont expect my Jewish brethren to wish me a merry Christmas nor my Buddhist brethren or any other group that is not of my religious persuasion--by the same token I do not feel compelled to wish them a happy Hanukkah, Kwanzaa or whatever I am a Christan I celebrate Christmas I am tired of the percentage of the population that feels that I should be ashamed or feel guilty for doing do. If you choose not to celebrate Christmas--don't do so so But you have no right to tell me I can't or even worse celebrate it while pretending I'm not, by substituting a ubiquitous Happy Holidays instead of a heartfelt Merry Christmas. If you don't want to hear Merry Christmas come out of my mouth--Don't talk to me-- And As for the clerks in the stores "thank you Ma'am have a nice day" works just fine.

While happy holidays definitely covers all the many holidays of this season Christmas is a celebration of the Birth of Christ. I find it interesting that the same people who demand that Christ be taken out of Christmas would not dream of demanding that Yahweh be taken out of Hanukkah or Allah out of Ramadan Guess that hypocrisy knife cuts both ways

The long and the short of "It is impossible to obey God without first obeying your leadership" is that in order for this to be true leadership has to be on a par with God. My church has a prophet--but that doesn;t mean we are to have blind obedience or allegiance to everything that comes out of his mouth. We are to check with God to see if one, is what was said true and two, how it applies and is to be applied in our daily walks. Anything else deprives God of his standing.

When I was in Texas I was talking to Tonto and I made a statement to the effect of " It's not that I disagree with everything that TWI taught , it is just the price I had to pay for the knowledge was way way too high" The price I paid was three severely abused children whose adult lives are a wreak, and the realization that no matter what I do or say I can never restore that which is irretrievably broken, or ever realistically have any kind of a none adversarial relationship with any of them Is a good portion of that my fault--you bet But I have to ask myself - "if not for TWI and the environment and teachings of same--would things have ever gotten to the extremes that they did?" And the answer is NO-- I Know what kind of person I was before TWI and I know the kind of person I became after I left TWI--I re found the self that was before TWI. TWI was a Physical and Mental Torture chamber that turned parents from their children instead of towards them. That in itself should be warning enough For the Bible says "turn the hearts of the fathers toward their children" What TWI taught was in direct contradiction to this--and apparently things haven;t changed all that much

The Vermont Country Store http://www.vermontcountrystore.com If you or people on your list ever say "do you remember those _____________ when we were kids" --this is the place that might very well have it

To be able to wake up each day and be happy that a new day has dawned. couldn't always say that in my life, but I can now--something to be truely thankful for.

"Just don't quit smiling, or he and that Camera will never go away!" "Just becasue this book is blue, doesn't mean it goes next to the "blue book" on the shelf!!"

Actually the globe doesn't sound bad -- How is the logo applied--etched into the glass?? There is etching cream to take care of that problem or a decorative base or last but not least it could be an emblem of where I was and how far I've come. I just love glass globes and most are way outside my budget range

Glad to hear everyone is fine--life is too precious to lose. As for the higher echelon's reacton to all this-- Maybe FOR ONCE they could try "So Blessed you are all safe, what can ' the ministry' do to help you???" Just this once, at the start of the holiday season, could we please see this smallest of miracles from TWI., Just this once?? Please??

How about a cross between a cow and a lobster you know , a Stakenlobster

Thanks for sharing your good news with us. you take care and have as happy a Thanksgiving as you can

The LDS church while supporting the idea of many chilfren also carries the proviso that one must be able to support said family with everything that is needful.

Let him who has ears to hear, hear--- and corn has the ears they stand not only when the teacher enters the room but throughout the teaching and then remain standing . they stand in their neat rows thus eliminating the need to string chairs they are always dressed their best and last, but not least, at the harvest they give their all. In short, they rise to heights I could never hope to attain-

Tom, perhaps Mike is waiting for his logical arguments for his new and improved version of PFAL to "clear" up as well

My thoughts are these. We are all God's children. you, me, Osma Bin Ladin, the Taliban, The Queen of England, LCM, etc etc. We may not act like it, we may not acknowledge it , but we are. Is TWI really trying to tell me that God is NOT ALLOWED to talk to all His children, whenever and however he pleases??? God's Laws--so tell me just when exactly did God make laws limiting what He could do?? And it is not just TWI, the fundies of many faiths would have you believe that God can only talk to who they decide is worthy--Arrogance doesn't begin to cover the half of it

I noticed that D--nn- M-rt-nd-l- is still alive and well and still usng the name M-rt-nd-l- somethings never change

In response to the legalism story thread I thought It would be interesting to tell of anytimes where legalism was not a force in a TWI gathering The two that stick out in my mind were: The spaghetti dinner we had when the Twig leaders and their "right hand" man couldn' t make it. We had a blast laughing and joking and just kicking back And the second one after POP was made known in Alaska. We had a get-together that the participants were hand picked for in order to discuss the situation. That group included some Way Corps and the rest of us who were able to recognize that the Emperor was running around flapping in the breeze. We had a great fellowship with tears and love and and outpouring of emotion and heart.

I would say that THE TRUTH is closer to : God "talks" to ALL (that's without exception, folks :) ) his children (ie the entire human race) whether they listen, listen and respond, tune out all together or any of countless other permutations.