templelady

Feeling an overwhelming urge to start a riot................... I agree with Oldies God uses people to reach people I abhor PFAL etal TWI etal and the price in human misery they have exacted But IF one person who had never heard of Heavenly Father an Jesus Christ Heard about them there then that seed was planted there Maybe TWI was the only kind of group that person felt comfortable with maybe it was a case of TWI knocking at the door when the person was receptive just at that moment As for staying with the group I can't speak tot the rest of you but there were warning signs a plenty and the voice in my head going GET OUT--GET OUT NOW!!! which I ignored God is not responsible if we fail to head his warnings and our own God given intellect Does this absolve VPW , LCM leadership etc of what they did or didn't do NO WAY But none of us were physically shackled to the Way auditorium-- For God has not Given us the Spirit of Fear, but of power and love and a sound mind. that was expounded to me in --surprise--PFAL And I and so many others chose to ignore its full import We left the "foundation" for the "vehicle"

I think the reason It has sparked so much interest in ExTWI who are not affiliated with CES is because it is part and parcel of one of the long time debates of GSC to Whit Was PFAL and TWI flawed from the outset--just a shrewd manipulation by VPW--or was PAFL and TWI originally of God and somehow VPW got lost along the way (no pun intended) As long as the perception was that CES had somehow managed to return PFAL and TWI doctrine to an "Older Purer" form as it were there was a body of evidence that supported the former contention. Now, at least from my perspective, the exposure of many of the same flaws in CES as were evinced in TWI brings more credence to the former position. Add to that that we all were involved with TWI in some manner or another and if the former were true we were all first class dupes. CES by maintaining that PFAL wasn't the problem gave us a glimmer that while dupes maybe, just maybe, we weren't total dupes. That belief system has also undergone some serious structural damage with these revelations

Best Foods Mayo On sandwiches and in Chicken or tuna salad In a pinch however you can mix up sweet pickle relish . MW and tomato ketchup and get a passable Thousand Island That's the only use I've found for it

Elizabeth, I don't know you but I do know that you are daughter of Heavenly Father Created by Him and Loved by Him As such you are only accountable to Him for your behaviors You are most certainly not required to deal with what you have been through and even for a moment believe that in any way shape or form it is "of God" For the New Year I ask that Heavenly Father hold your wounded heart close and that you find peace in His loving arms In the Name of His son Jesus Christ

Calmer now And I have been pondering this entire fiasco I think the question comes down to one of Foundation Is your foundation Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ or is your foundation the VEHICLE that tells you about Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ TWI,CES, The LDS Church, The Roman Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists, PFAL, etc etc etc are Vehicles. In and of themselves they have no worth beyond how well they impart to their adherents the foundation of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. SO that said I think we need to go back to the beginning Back to TWI Back to the first cracks in that Vehicle were John S, John Lyn etal seeking to preserve the Foundation or to preserve the Vehicle? Because if the answer is the latter, this experiment carried within its very inception the seeds of failure. From what I have read over the years I think their goal was to preserve the vehicle, specifically PFAL. In and of itself that is not a bad thing the problem comes when the vehicle is no longer seen as the vehicle but in the minds of those on board becomes the foundation This problem is not exclusive to any denomination or religious body. I can tell you that today I will sit in sacrament meeting with LDS who have this same problem. It is normal, it is HUMAN. Thus we find ourselves vicarious observers to this tawdry bit of human disaster. A disaster that is the fruit of the best of intentions, the fruit of people who truly thought they were "getting it right" the fruit of people who along the way confused the vehicle with the foudation and so forgot the foundation in an effort to keep the vehicle running Just my Thoughts

I just finished reading Elizabeth's letter to John (OK, I know, I'm Late, But I've been busy) I could feel that poor woman's pain through her words It brought back so much pain from my TWI days And All I can think is HOW DID THIS HAPPEN???? Didn't they/we/us/ leave TWI because of this EXACT SAME STUFF??? Sorry--I'm yelling But I am dumbfounded that a ministry that was formed to rectify the ills of TWI came to the point that this is possible TWI practiced PI they took a bit of scripture and spun it to the "correct" proportions for their purposes CES, from what I see abandoned scripture all together and went to PI from the delusions of the mind. I can;t write any more right now--My heart is aching for ELynn I can feel in the innermost part of my being what a hell this was for her, A hell in the midst of a ministry that claimed to serve GOD Hell cannot exist in heaven If Hell exists it is not heaven

I have to be honest I read the "prophecies " and never did get to EL's letters Understand I come from a religious ideology that believes in Prophecies has, in factm, a living prophet And all I could think as I read the verbal diatribe of an obviously unsettled and sexually psychopathic mind was HOW could anyone think this was of GOD??? In fact where was GOD in the entire picture??? dead babies maggots swamps fishnet stockings wedding dresses demonic faces But No GOD no Jesus Christ No Holy Spirit No love no gentleness no guidance Just darkness and bleakness Darkness and bleakness --silly me I aways thought that was of the devil..............

Cause perusing my naval counts as doing something If I am doing something I can't be doing something else give me a P R O C R A S T I N A T I O N Put them to gether and what have you got??? P R O C R A S T I N A T I O N

The love of Heavenly Father and the light of HIs son Jesus Christ

For the umpteenth time I was paused in my perusal of my naval by the jangling of my phone. Upon answering I heard the following message "please do not hang up this is an important business call. Please call our toll free number at 1 800 555-9999 our office hours are........" ATTENTION if you can't spend the time to make your own phone calls If you can't spend the time to identify your business and the nature thereof in person Do not dial my number because My navel perusal ranks far above you in importance since I can see it also those of you who have your computers call me with the following "please hold.. While We connect...." Again My time is too valuable to spend waiting on someone who wants my money but is, in their own eyes , too superior to make their own calls

Don't know all the specifics don't really want too never was interested in CES, STF or any other offshoot because to my way thinking they were trying to put "new wine" into an "old wineskin' with the results as we we are seeing Sad Sad because many many people will be hurt hurt the way they were when TWI collapsed or some other religious group let them down that is what is sad not who sits in what position of authority but what all this wrangling does to the people who are spiritually in an already fragile place

I remember that I stick pretty much to knitting or crochet if I did any kind of needlework for those seven years--counted cross stitch meant that I was in constant "danger" of someone criticizing the theme of the the cross stitch I was doing--know how many cross stitch patterns there are out there that EXACTLY portray TWI slanted dogma???????????? As for critical examination of Scripture--that is why I was Always in trouble-- The Leadership of the class would say "And this is what this verse actually means"-- And I, with my history background who finds KJV English not in the least daunting, would say" no it doesn't" SIGHHHHH

Renewing you mind is such a vital part of human growth Evaluating your opinions- their validity, their foundations their role in your life. do they hinder you? do they harm others? how do you change them? do you want to change them/ Is God part of your equation? Who do you regard as influential in your decision making? Is pleasing others always paramount? these are a mere handful of questions that are part of that process TO insist that one book,. one ministry, one set of thought patterns in accomplishing this is all encompassing for all people at all times is completely ludicrous

I too remember the S----s, They were indeed the epitome of everything that Christ would expect from his disciples. Even at the worst of the Alaska TWI years they were unfailingly kind, gracious and loving toward me no matter what "leadership" etal had to say about me. I think of them often, their kindness a blazing spot of warming light, in those bleak years. TO THEM, if you are reading this, or if someone is in contact with them --please tell them that Mo Dilley sends, her love, her thanks and her respect, and wishes them God speed and joy at this Christmas Season and through the years to come.

I left at a 6 now am a 7 - 10 depending on the day , my mood, the topic or any combinaiton thereof

A good thing is only good if the price you pay to recieve it is in good proportion to what you recieve.

Let God SOrt it out

all this requires is the correct spin doctoring a) immediately abolish the word "gray" as a hair color-instead the former "gray" will now be known as "silver" b) include "silver" as a blond shade lighter than "platinum" problem solved I myself have ash blond hair with many silver blond highlights the best thing being-- it requires no messy expensive trips to the hairdresser

I can see the truth in that statement

The Once saved always saved mindset is one of the most insidious things to come down the pike. Because even those who proclaimed it on one breath were forced o deal with the reality that people did bad things. And that led to the dogma that if you did bad things-you had never been "saved " in the first place. How much easier to accept the Through Christ we are forgiven, That we will mess up because we are human, and that we can be forgiven for those mess ups too

And Happy Holidays and A Joyous Winter Solstice to You As Well As Happy Hanukkah Happy Ramadan Happy Kwanzaa Merry Christmas And If you fall in none of the above categories Happy December

I would venture to say that my Wicca friends would disagree with this Two questions How do you know no one has converted to paganism by viewing these images?Who are you aware of that has converted to Christianity by viewing a Creche?? These kind of Blanket statements with no factual basis hardly support your arguments Only because you and those who agree with you haven't succeeded in having it prohibited Never said Christmas was banned by the government--where do you get these ideas??

Humorous only if you find rude boorishness humorous. And that would be true of your initial post no matter what "religion" it was putting down.Secondly, The following with thanks to the folks at Wikipedia Funny, I see a lot of wreaths this time of year on public as well as private buildings- Pagan Greek, Roman and Norse peoples used wreaths around this time of year for both secular and religious purposes. The religious use of wreaths is pagan in origin as well as Christmas trees - Another pagan holiday thing to do. Followers of The Roman cult of Dionysus would erect a tree during the December holiday season, and Nordic pagans also brought in and decorated trees. The Bible actually forbids the decoration of trees. Jeremiah 10:3,4 says: "For the customs of the people are vain; for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with an axe. They deck it with silver and gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." mistletoe -- Pagans decorated with Mistletoe around winter to pay homage to the God Baldur's resurrection by his mother, who used mistletoe and a kiss to revive himgift giving Pretty much the only Christian thing in Christmas is the manger display, though some argue that this is actually similar to the story of Hercules, or Dionysus who were both born of a human woman (after sex with gods) in manger settings, with very similar overtones to the Christian legend And let us not even go into the various meanings of stars in pagan symbolism So tell me, Garth, how does permitting the use of your "Pagan Symbols" while excluding the use of my "Christian Symbols" at this time of year around public buildings separate religion from government???? Oh silly me, It is just my religious symbols that need exclusion not yours-- HMMMM--- Maybe YOU should re visit the definition of hypocrisy

I journal It's something most LDS are encourage to do--a living history sort of thing Sometimes It is just to record the events of the day sometimes to put in writing how I feel Sometimes esoteric ramblings but what ever it is a good emotional release Sort of a put out the brain lights before sleeping exercise

Look synthesized down to its bare essentials what TWI taught was the following The more you "Joe believer" give up, do without, and blindly obey the more we leadership gain, have and are free to do as we will. Less is ALWAYS better for YOU and MORE is always better for US.