templelady

Actually the plan I outlined pays far far less than almost any company health insurance plan today. With the difference between what the insurance co pay now for the plans they fund and how much the bare bones plan would cost-I don't think that it would cost any more for a company to provide insurance for all their employees. What it would do is prevent co's from only giving workers 30 hours a week, or declaring them on-call employees thus making said employees ineligible to be covered by medical. Businesses attitudes of ^(*&%^&*^$ the employee lets see how we can get around providing benefits is why we are in this pickle. Sorry, If you can't afford the cost of doing business and that includes adequate wages and benefits for ALL your employees--maybe you shouldn't be in business *********the writer who is designated as an "on-call " employee wrking less than 32 hours a week just got through shelling out $850.00 for a mammogram, bone density scan, and routine bloodwork for her once a year physical --not to mention the 315 last week for said physical all this on 1700 a month (including money from the trust account my mom left)--which makes me lucky ----I still have money to live on**********

SO what happens if we enact a bare bones minimum for all employees of all companies no matter the size or hours worked For employee and immediate family per person Say One physical a year One eye exam and one pair glasses/contacts $500 prescription allowance emergency extraction of teeth Paid for by the company If you have a chronic medical condition nation wide medical medical plans offering group rates for Multiple sclerosis Diabetes Chronic depression Etc Etc That would probably cover adequately 70% of the population If you wanted more you would have to pay for it yourself out of a plan that the company got group rates for taht would leave the unemployed and disaled and the medical programs ialready in place0--which would be abl;e to do more since the employed would be taken care of

TO expand on my idea about babies born in this country to illegals I would be willing to agree that if their parents reentered this country legally and became citizens of the United States any children that had been born on United States soil would be United States citizens by birth not by naturalization --this means those children could grow up to be president. And Yeah all those babies born to illegals with automatic citizenship--they can be president too 30-40 years from now do you want this country run by someone who was raised by people who believe that they should be allowed to ignore our laws while milking the system for all it is worth????? Think it can't happen????

Actually this is a correct statement The problem arises when we use TWI's version of Believing The Greek pistis translated faith means believing Then we come to the part about he who has no doubts moving that mountain from hither to yon VPW of course had to put this down at the human level (amazing how a person so Anti- five senses seemed to spend so much time therein --but I digress) Our believing Our Will could move that mountain Scripture was never meant to be interpreted such It is our FAITH in the Power of God to move that mountain Our FAITH that God will hear our prayer to do such that works Our faith in our faith HE that has NO doubts, not a trickle, not a whisper, not a millisecond, not a scintilla of doubt will succeed There are few of us in the crunch of things --which is usually when this doctrine comes into play-- that have that much faith

Spanking is not beating Back in the day of dinosaurs when I and my friends were being brought up The one thing we were sure of was if we misbehaved be it at home, school, church, the store--discipline would be swift and sure and painful. NO other adult batted an eye when a misbehaving child received a quick swat on the behind in a store when misbehaving. My father had no qualms about removing me to the foyer of the church when as acted up and giving a swift swat. Result-- if I didn't like the results I did not repeat the behavior My parents were not consumed by the need to make sure I understood their logic, that I understood why we didn't do certain things--in their lexicon it was irrelevant at the moment as to why ---down the road the more esoteric discussion may take place but in the moment--right behavior was the goal and it was to be achieved as quickly and as expeditiously as possible

So Iguess that the next layer in this oinion we are peeling is Are our Immigration laws To strict NOt strict enough weighed too hevily in favor of one group over another? If they need to be change dwaht and how?? do we need to toughen up deportation for other nationals who misbehave within our borders what about Diplomatic immunity?

If you close down a shoe factory because it illegal--then the next thing that happens is that the competition who is legal either opens their own factory or takes over the old one To hear some of the rhetoric of Big business you would think that they were the only game in town Of course it helps if we all go along with the viewpoint they are expressing. A restaurant closes within a month a new one has opened. We already have laws that espouse the idea the those who commit illegal acts should not be allowed to profit from same If you kill your spouse you don't inherit IF you are convicted of a crime you don;t get to write a book in jail becomes a best seller about said crime And If you hire illegals............... And while we are swimming in this puddle lets not forget NAFTA Repeal it Get tariffs on imported goods back into place We are the wealthiest nation on earth Maybe we should get back to acting like it instead of trying to appease the have nots and won't nots of the rest of the world

Because the solution you are putting forward still makes it economically advantageous for them to do what they are doing -and you can bet your bottom dollar that the newly christened illegals will be working for less with less benefits than the company would have to pay to everyone else as an "offset " to the fact they are being "mentored" "trained" " assisted" or whatever PC euphemism will be used to disgusie the fact that they are illegals working for a US company Renaming the Foxes sheep in no way changes the fact that the henhouse is in deep trouble Close the business strip the CEO's of their ability to make money off the practice t Believe me it will only take one or TWO examples and you will find business illegal free MONEY Talks If fact where business is concerned it is the only thing that talks

Maine land of my ancestors LObster???? MMMMMMMMMMMMm Lets see if I hitch a ride on a passing dog team Then Ski jockay behnd a moose to Minnesota Harness a gaggle of geese to fly me to Portland Lobster Sounds awful good When did you say they'd be ready????

Why on earth should we as a nation be doing this???? You want to adopt and mentor someone--adopt and mentor the families in the poorer areas of this country--help them with their businesses and communities It is really simple IF you are an Illegal No Food Stamps NO housing subsidy no "welfare" of any kind If you are ill and end up in an emergency room your next stop is INS If you and your significant other are illegal your child is not a United States Citizen by virtue of being born on United States soil--it has become an epidemic in the southwest of Pregnant illegals coming over the border to have babies here which are then United States Citizens Businesses that hire illegals heavy fines and shut them down -not just the company but the CEO themselves -Illegal hiring makes you ineligible to ever have a business license again Make it economically un-advantageous for the business and the illegals and the problem will diminish If I sound angry it is because I am Last night Foreign Resident Comes home drunk Asked to leave Becomes belligerent and hostile 5 staff (4 over time) 3 roommates numerous neighbors 4 squad cars 5 police officers 3 paramedics 1 ambulance and 2 and 1/2 hours later finally gone has never paid a dime of rent out of his own pocket all from US govt programs, and various charities and the problem probably still isn't resolved since the person has the avenue of complaining to the ACLU, his Embassy, our parent organization, the city, the State etc etc etc about discrimination blah blah blah Last time we had one of these major go-arounds with a foreign national it took FIVE YEARS to finally get all the legal work , complaints etc resolved And we need these people why????????????

All right you two This was a serious POll regarding people's opinions regarding the State quarters that many of us are collecting Try to Behave --Just a little Bit --PLease --Can Ya--Would Ya --COuld Ya???????

Rate that Quarter Time is here

The bottom line is that the United States has become the International Enabler You have a government that is oppressive or corrupt the solution 1) work from inside to change it 2) overthrow said regime by force of arms if necessary--the cost will be high but it is after all your government/country 3) flee to the United States where you can live in luxury with none of the responsibilities of citizenship 4) have the United States overthrow the government for you then complain the the United States is the oppressor The Economic situation in your country is abysmal the solution a) work with groups in your country to improve working conditions/start new industry b) flee to the united states where you can work illegally and send money back home while enjoying all the benefits of citizenship with none of the responsibilities Your 22 year old son has just quit his 6th job because The boss was "mean" do you 1) let him move home and pay for his upkeep 2) let him move home with the clear understanding that he has one month to have a job and be back on his own and stick to your guns Your brother's gambling addiction has cost him his marriage, his family and his home do you 1) let him live with you even though several small valuables seem to disappear every time he is around 2) slip him money because he is "sick' 3) tell him you will not support his addiction he needs to go to treatment--you will always love him and be there for him but you will not give him money or otherwise enable him to continue his lifestyle Amazing isn't it--we have learned it isn't healthy to let our loved ones use us a doormats so that they can continue is their unacceptable behaviors but at the same time we feel obligated to be the doormat for the world. DO you think if we cut off all programs and entitlements to those within our borders who were not citizens, or seeking to become citizens that we might be able to afford to have a Medical program that gave basic medical care to all our citizens? DO you think if we quit sending medical and food supplies overseas to people who hate us we might have enough resources to see that no citizen of the United States goes to bed hungry??? DO you think if instead of tax breaks to businesses who "outsource"to third world countries we assessed tax penalties for same and gave the breaks to the businesses who manufactured here and hired US citizens their might not be unemployment in the United States? PLEASE SOMEONE ANYONE TEll ME WHat is so wrong about keeping the United States and it resources for citizens of the United States???

Yes in my work arena--and you and I would be embarrassed to say such things because we are honest hardworking people--the ones I am Talking about aren't and it is everyone else's responsibility to see that they have happy lives and everyone else's fault if they don'tThere is an article I think in People Magazine I am trying to locate about troops not getting the same benefits if they were not injured by enemy combatants in the mean time here is a link I found which shows the abysmal state of compensation for our injured troops http://groups.google.com/group/alt.impeach...5866cab8447a5b8 And The "civilian Contractors' there who face exactly the same dangers as out troops-- http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politic...887f3ff13762894 To begin with if they don't have a green card they are not filling out 1099's (tax papers) or any other documentation if they aren't US citizens they don't have SS numbers (and If they can to afford to buy same on the black market they already have money)--- they are working under the table which means they pay nothing and their employers also do not pay their share of FICA etc. taxes--strictly a cash transaction all the way around. Employers who do this should be shut down and their business license revoked for a minimum of a year on the first offense--permanently if there is a repeat offense. And Illegals should receive no benefits. Hand in hand with this goes the argument that the poor employer has to hire illegals because Non-illegals won't take the job--- TRANSLATION OF EMPLOYER POSITION I don't want to pay minimum wage, I don't want to adhere to a 40 hour work week, I don't want to pay overtime, I don't want to provide, Health insurance, I don't want to pay into workers compensation. I don't want to go to the expense of maintaining working conditions in compliance with OSHA --WHO can I get to work under these conditions???? They enter this country legally, work for a living and apply for citizenship. Whether our current immigration laws are reasonable or good is another issue for another thread. But the key point is that THEY ARE OUR LAWS. I have a problem with someone whose first idea is "How can I avoid or circumnavigate obeying the law" trying to convince me that I "owe" them something--whether it be a job, food stamps or citizenship

CK you have hit on one of my pet peeves- Daily I see people from other countries here is Alaska who are getting free government handouts supported by our tax dollars who continually complain about "Americans" who we are what we are and why we "Owe" them. And while some program is paying for them to go to school here and helping with housing expenses etc we have people who are VETERANS of Vietnam, Korea, WWII etc --people who fought for this country--sleeping in shelters dying in homeless camps, veterans not covered by any kind of Government pension because their injuries resulted from "friendly Fire", the list is endless. ENOUGH Already!!!!! 20% of American children go to bed hungry and this in the wealthiest country in the world. Am I upset that a few Mexicans are picking lettuce in California?? Not half as furious as I am when I see people who are not American Citizens, have no intention of ever being American Citizens and in many cases actively hate us ands our government being given scholarships to our schools, jobs, and economic handouts from our tax dollars. SEND THEM HOME NOW Scholarships and Aid for our own Aid for those coming here who wish to become part of our great country

And there is where one of the problems is--because for those of us not from a slave background--our heritage is very important-it speaks to who we are -where we come from -it does not, for most people, mean we regard ourselves as "better' but it does provide a certain level of camaraderie-the same traditions the same foods, the same folklore tales from childhood. Two strangers who meet and find out they are both from Swedish ancestry for example-will probably have memories of common childhood foods, st Lucia day, decorations, style of decoration etc. which leads to a form of bonding which leads to further bonding Only if the reference is used in a derogatory means -- otherwise saying " I am looking for the black girl with the long hair" is no more "racist" than saying "I am looking for the the brown eyed white girl" or " I am Looking for the Chinese foreign exchange student" All of them are adjectives adjectives are a necessity to provide clarification about who and what we are speaking about Imagine trying to find someone in an school of a 1000 with the following "I am looking for the girl with the long hair" " I am looking for the brown eyed Girl" I am looking for the Foreign exchange student" Total agreement HERE And here we are at the crux of the situation-Speaking for myself and a good percentage of the non black people I know--we just cannot assimilate this attitude --because as I said before who we are is not only our jobs, our age, the color of our eyes but our ethnicity too. Our pride in our ethnicity, for most of us, does not mean we regard others ethnicity's as inferior, or bad, or any other negative but part and parcel of who we are and a thing to be rejoiced and elated about--We call it having a good self image. And when you get down to it A good self image is where the gang problem starts With a group of people who lack that good self image and so create a secondary group of people in which they can experience same

I have been thinking about something for a long time trying to get a clear picture of what I have always understood intuitively but never really tried to articulate. This may make no sense BUT please understand this is just Mo "a rambling in thought out loud" and not meant as a slam , slur or attack against anyone or any group of people. I have noticed the following When Native Americans think about themselves among themselves they think, I am Sioux, I am Apache, I am Inupiat, That broadens to I am Sioux from the Pine Ridge Reservation, I am Inupiat from Kotzebue. And then it goes perhaps to Their occupation their religion whatever sub group they belong to in the larger context of their lives. And when they Run in Groups , Gangs if you will, quite often the gang is all Sioux, or Apache, Or Salish etc When Middle Eastern Americans think about themselves among themselves they think, I am Egyptian, I am Iranian, I am Pakistani, That broadens to I am An Egyptian whose people came from Cairo , I am Saudi from Mecca. And then it goes perhaps to Their occupation their religion whatever sub group they belong to in the larger context of their lives. And when they run in Groups ,Gangs if you will, quite often the gang is all Iraqi, or Egyptian or Palestinian etc When Pacific Islander Americans think about themselves among themselves they think, I am Samoan I am Tongan, I am Hawaiian, That broadens to place of origin . And then it goes perhaps to their occupation their religion whatever sub group they belong to in the larger context of their lives. And when they run in Groups ,Gangs if you will, quite often the gang is all Filipino, or Samoan or Tongan etc When Latino Americans think about themselves among themselves they think, I am Puerto Rican I am Haitian, I am Jamaican, That broadens to place of origin . And then it goes perhaps to their occupation their religion whatever sub group they belong to in the larger context of their lives. And when they run in Groups ,Gangs if you will, quite often the gang is all Mexican, or Dominican or Salvadorian etc When White Americans think about themselves among themselves they think, I am English I am French, I am German, That broadens to place of origin . And then it goes perhaps to their occupation their religion whatever sub group they belong to in the larger context of their lives. And when they run in Groups ,Gangs if you will, quite often the gang is all Russian, or Irish or Italian etc When Oriental Americans think about themselves among themselves they think, I am Japanese I am Taiwanese, I am Korean, That broadens to place of origin . And then it goes perhaps to their occupation their religion whatever sub group they belong to in the larger context of their lives. And when they run in Groups ,Gangs if you will, quite often the gang is all Chinese, or Vietnamese or Thai etc When Black Americans think about themselves among themselves they think, I am a Black American That broadens to where they are from in the United States Because Black Americans whose ancestry is slavery have, for the most part, only the color of their skin to mark them as a Nationality since they cannot say I am Zulu, I am Bantu, I am Watusi.. And then it goes perhaps to their occupation their religion whatever sub group they belong to in the larger context of their lives. And when they run in Groups ,Gangs if you will, quite often the gang is all black. My point in this late night ramble is that when the thing that makes you as a group is also something that the rest of non black society often time looks at as more of a physical characteristic as opposed to a nationality it is so easy to hear a different statement depending on whose ears it falls on. "i don't date Blacks" Is that a racist statement??? That depends DO you not date blacks because you believe they are inferior or not good enough??? that is racist OR DO you not date blacks because what gets your "motor" running is freckles across a nose under green Eyes? that's not racist anymore than a guy who dates only redheads This matters when we discuss gangs If we say there is a gang of Russian Mafia down the street We may not know precisely who we are avoiding but a group of Chinese or Apache walking by will not cause a case of nerves-- vis a vis the Russian Mafia problem -a group of white people speaking French won't raise an alarm either. But when we hear there is a black gang down the street- Evey black person becomes suspect--not because the rest of us can't tell black people apart, not because we think black people as a group are dangerous, violent, etc etc etc but because the only differentiation there is is the color of the skin, not the looks of a different nationality, or the accent, or anything else just the Color of the skin. And so Almost half a century later after Rosa PArks, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X---we still have a black white Issue wherein all black people feel they all are suspect and that all white people just don't understand--I don't know all the answers H--- I don't even know 3% of all the questions-- but I know there has to be a better way and we need to find it --Soon-- because the enemy without our borders grows stronger ( and I'm not talking about a few of our southern neighbors heading north to work in the fields of California) and we need to start thinking of ourselves as united beyond our skin and beyond our ethnic heritage.

Too bad this thread could have been an interesting dialog about the various kinds of gangs and gangs in different regions unfortunately it has degenerated into a mud slinging contest where the self proclaimed masters of political correctness attempt to browbeat those of different opinions into submission by ascribing racist intentions, and violent attitudes to any who dare disagree with their ideas of what is the appropriate response. In the future perhaps it would be helpful if those of this mindset simply said in the opening post--NO DISAGREEMENT WITH THE PC POSTURE ALLOWED

It's the "buns" folks It's all in the "buns"

It is a personal choice as to how one determines the environment they are willing to inhabit. To claim that such determinations are in and of themselves based solely on the racial/religious/other attributes of the neighbors or that such words as "inner city", "gang bangers" , etc automatically refer to minorities, unless it is so indicated by the speaker of same, is at best putting words in people's mouths at worst bigotry at some level. How one responds to the violence or problems of their neighborhood is again a personal choice based on the circumstances of one's own life. Far be it from me to tell anyone what is the correct way of handling things. It is all too easy to sit here in cyberspace and judge others actions when we are disconnected by time and space, for the most part, from the reality of their lives. In addition because we are disconnected from the reality of their lives it would be equally foolish to assume that what everyone says about a given situation and their actions regarding the same is the truth. Because the reality is that very few of us know each other on a personal level so that blanket assumptions about the intent or the veracity of a poster is in and of itself foolhardy.

Shell hit it on the head Unless those things are happening in your household you really have no control over where they occur. If it is happening in your immediate world you need to get away If in the neighborhood around you a new neighborhood won't be the fix. You may be able to see the dealer on the street in one neighborhood while in the new neighborhood it may be the folks in that fab house on the hill who throw the marvelous pool parties. You can always move to get away from an undesirable location for whatever reason makes it undesirable for you but the reality is that in this day in age ALL neighborhoods are undesirable at some level--the question then becomes how much of what goes on isn't in our faces. Moving to find perfection is futile because utopia doesn't exist And for those who must try --more power to you--with the mores of society being what they are it is no longer a black white issue, a male female issue, a Christian other issue but a people issue --plain and simple no matter what the Wikipedia encyclopedia says.

For those of you curious Christmas with my birth family was supercalifragilisticexpealidociuoskly wonderfullyfantistically marvelous brother, sister in law, nephew, sister, brother in law, niece, nephew in law and two grand nieces, one dog , three cats and various extended family in one 800 sq foot house PRICELESS

Change that to If he loves Fishing, jazz concerts, mushrooms and garlic, good bbq and dipping his hamburger in ketchup those would be HUGE bonuses. If he wanted to whisk me away to the “Oregon coast” and save me from all these californicators in Alaska, he might never get rid of me. and Belle's lst fits just fine

I have a relatively good track record," he said. "Sometimes I miss." Methinks I see the Problem Dear Pat suggest you try this one on for size GOD has a real good track record," he said. "He never misses." I mean what do you have to lose , other than an Over inflated Ego

Just goes to show that the VPW's of the world weren't spawned in a vacuum