Stayed Too Long

and how about baseball and homeruns?

Think of the terrific snow skiing in all those craters!

There are around 750 people who work for the company I am employeed, and are located in four different locations around the city. We have a huge company breakfast, and then each division has its own smaller get togethers sometime during the season. In the summer there are similar picnics. It do attend most of my division parties because it is nice visiting with the families of my fellow employees. It is enjoyable seeing how much their kids have grown, what school events they are involved with, and what kinds of promotions or trouble their spouses have managed to get themselves into. I have attended some of the company parties but since I know relatively few of the employees there, it is not so comfortable mingly around. I usually end up just hanging out with my division employees.

GarthP quote: ________________________________________________ And would that be any worse than those who would not bring up the challenge, usually for the reasons noted above? Perhaps it could be said of them that they 'stayed too long', ... ya think? ________________________________________________ I am not arguing they should not be challenged....on the contrary they should be! Plagurism, using people, ruining lives, etc should be exposed. Those are some of the reasons I hang out here. Hopefully I can help others that it also has happened to. My point in this matter is we hold some to different standards than others. If we liked one person for some reason, like the person loved us, was of assistance us, or we thought they were one hell of a person and really cool, we will cut them some slack in their acceptance of VPW, et al. Praises will abound and the person's life presented as that of a wonderul human being. On the other hand if someone comes in here that we do not know, and if that person supports VPW, et al,......well suffice it so say they had better be pretty thick skinned. And I think it is just human nature to do this. Many of our decisions are really quite subjective. Bill Clinton goes into Kosovo, the Republican's oppose him, and the Democrats back him. George H Bush goes into Kuwait, the Democrats oppose him, and the Republicans back him.

It has been my observation that many at GSC have two standards when it comes to holding people accountable while they were a part of TWI. It pretty much depends on who they were and if they were perceived as "loving", "a wonderful person", "loved God", "just helped me so much", or similar attributes. Most folks here at the cafe believe VPW stole much of what he taught in PFAL from others, used his position to intimidate others, and was a sexual preditor. It would be hard to get many here to argue these points. In fact most have condemned the current trustees for covering up VP's and LCM's similiar activities. They also point out and hold accountable other leadership who knew what was going on by either aiding, covereding up, or ignoring the facts and turning a blind eye. Yet it is inconceivable to me the original trustees and their wive's did not know what VPW was doing in the motor coach with all those woman. But they are spoken of here with fond tenderness. Most of the time posters use terms of endearmont to describe their relationship with them. A cover up is a cover up no matter if we think well of the person or not. In the same vain, anyone who today expressed at GSC the same view of VPW as Mark apparently has, would be rousted out and challenged...just ask Mike. In another thread recently the author was questioning how anyone today could stay and support TWI with all that has been exposed about it in recent years. I think it is probably human nature to cut some people slack and not others. An extreme example is Jesse James and Bonnie and Clyde. All three were cold blooded murderers yet we have elevated them to legendary mythical status. On the other hand the only thing elevated with Scott Peterson is people's hatred of him.

Although I did not know him personally his work with Way Productions always impressed me very much. He will be missed.

You have my true sympathy.......I also am a survivor. How young girls can find so much to giggle about at 3am is still a mystery to me!!

mj412 sorry for my sloppy writing style. I will work to improve it in the future. To answer your question: No, I do not agree with you and herbiejuan.

mj412 "the criminals in the post office are wanted criminals . these are guys who have done there time and have moved into the neighborhood and are trying to live a "normal" life with their records and details of the crime and their current adress displayed. I think it is a little different ." I was using pictures of criminals in the post office to counter what herbiejuan had learned in his abnormal psych class. "I think posting pics lulls folks into a false sense of security. Many times (as evidenced by the ongoing RC scandel) child molesters remain undiscovered, sometimes for their whole lives. Often times these people seek out and hold positions that place them in close contact with children (teachers, ministers, rec dept employees) and use their authority and implied power to silence or shame their victims. So to think that those three men (or women) are the only perps in the neighborhood is delusional." I totally disagree with it especially the last sentence. Just because someones picture is posted we are not going to be lulled into a false sense of security and let all other common sense go out the window (go Shellon). And especially to conclude we think they are the only perps in the neighborhood is delusional on their part. And keep in mind that CHILD MOLESTERS CAN NOT BE CURED!! They are not like a thief or bad check writer who gets out and can go straight.

mj412 said: I know that is right you would move to the higher class neighborhood next door where such things are never done( money or class what is the defining line for you?) or in the very least put on in a public display for all to read right Krystal ? that is what herb and I spoke about when we talked about the ignoring or lulling one into a mind of safety in a neighborhood out of chosen ignorance on the subject. ________________________________________________ I don't think money or class has anything to do with this. You seem to insinuate that poorer people or those in the middle/lower classes are being singled out as child molesters. And that once a molester is discovered you move to an upper class neighborhood. To me you seem to think people believe lower/middle class are molesters. And once someone finally 'realizes' this, they believe theirnly salvation is the upper neighborhoods? Am I way off base??..please correct me if I am wrong. herbiejuan said: ________________________________________________ I think posting pics lulls folks into a false sense of security. Many times (as evidenced by the ongoing RC scandel) child molesters remain undiscovered, sometimes for their whole lives. Often times these people seek out and hold positions that place them in close contact with children (teachers, ministers, rec dept employees) and use their authority and implied power to silence or shame their victims. So to think that those three men (or women) are the only perps in the neighborhood is delusional. ________________________________________________ If you go into any post office you will see the pictures of all kinds of criminals that are wanted. Does this mean that only those posted at the time are the only criminals at the time? Of course not and I don't think anyone is silly enough to think that way. Just because a child molester' picture is posted does not mean people would think they are the only potential molester's in the area. We need to be aware of these people so we can protect our children.

Without a doubt being able to forgive myself was a very necessary element to living peacefully with myself. Anymore I evaluate my actions and thoughts as objectively as I can, and give myself a pat on the back for successful ones, and go very easy on myself if I don't measure up. Sometimes I make an effort to do better the next time and other times I don't. Although I fail many times quite often I make it over the hurdle. Approaching life with this attitude has enabled me to better myself like never before. Now I am accomplishing things never imaginable before. My way of looking at the the day is this: Live today with a balance, not expecting too much from myself or cutting myself short either. Look forward to the future with excitement and expectation. Neither yearn for nor condemn myself for the past. Sure works wonders for me!!

will some please pass the cream and sugar.......? Thanks.......... (clink, clink).........oh, sorry I interrupted you Mike, guess I lost my stayed mind for a minute there. You were saying?????? "I like Mike, I like Mike, I like Mike, YAAAAAA MIKE."

SunshineRain Welcome to the cafe!! Don't be too concerned about the posts here. You'll probably be battle hardened in not to short a period of time. Not alot of people here intersted in discussing the word (Mike will throw Wierwille around with you though.) Most posters are just glad to be out of the clutches of TWI, and getting reinforced and built up with others here. Usually discussions of The Way and how they mistreated people dominate here, but Iraq took front and center the last few weeks. "Las Vegas law prohibits the pawning of dentures." L.M. Boyd

French Kiss "Las Vegas law prohibits the pawning of dentures." L.M. Boyd

French_Kiss.jpg "Las Vegas law prohibits the pawning of dentures." L.M. Boyd

Maybe the new servers GS is going to will have limited space and posts will be edited. [/b]]I really believe it is our only hope![/b] Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.

Larry--can I please change my vote to number 3: I never read anything he writes, so I don't care one way or another? Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.

Mike you said: "If we can see more exactly what went wrong, we can more exactly fix it. Isn't that the deeper purpose of what this place is all about?" To this question I give you a very emphatic NO! What went wrong was that TWI and Wierwille should have never happened in the first place. VPW never had an original thought. It was stolen from the work of others. In some cases he copied it word for word. In others he changed a few words in a sentence. I don't believe there are too many people at GS who are trying to see "If we can see more exactly what went wrong." And far fewer seeking to find out so "we can more exactly fix it." We know what went wrong and 'it' was a power hungry man with a lust for using woman for his own pleasure. Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.

Mike you should do what we were taught as WOW's when no one would believe the word; shake the dust off our feet. We moved on hoping to find someone who would listen to us. There must be a mall you can witness in, a student union building at your local college, coworkers you can talk to, and if all else fails, door-to-door. Unless you can find a hidden message in what VPW taught WOW's about witnessing , he said to witness twice and then move on. You can take comfort in knowing it will better for Sodom and Gomorrah at the judgment than for us at the Greasespot Cafe. Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.

At least this is a break from the war posts. On second thought, I better go back to the war posts. Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.

With all the guns and ammo you have, this couldn't be a SHOTGUN WEDDING could it? Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.

EWB The title just popped into my mind, but I used to listen to NPR so it makes sense that's where it came from. We do have similiar backgrounds coming from the RC church. It was really great for the first couple of years as all that guilt rolled off. But then all the legalism of twi began setting and it was just as bad. Thanks for praying for me :)--> Lindyhopper Things are going much, much better. Still have some things to sort out but they will come. Principles are principles no matter how or where you learned them. Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.

Who was Martindale's secretary at Emporia who taught us English? Her first name was 'Pat'. She would have loved this thread!! :D--> :D--> :D--> Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.

I pretty much did the two part thing also. Left in 79 and returned in 83 because I felt horribly bad about leaving. Hung around until 96 when they booted me. By the time they m&a'ed me I knew I had Stayed Too Long. Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.

I didn't realize I snored until my wife at the time mentioned it, but was always tired during the day even after sleeping all night. I went to the doc and he sent a technicion to my house at bed time, and had me hooked up to all sorts of measuring devices. All night this noisy little dot matrix printer recorded all my information on a role of paper tape. The doc interpreted it all to mean I stopped breathing at night (apnea). He attributed it to two things; 1): a deviated septum in my nose and 2): too much fat tissue on some kind of valve in my throat. He said he could remove it with a laser (quite expensive), or I could loose weight at it would clear itself up naturally. I choose to have surgery on my nose to have the septum straighten out, and too loose weight. It really worked. I feel rested in the mornings now. Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.