Stayed Too Long

What The Hay: ________________________________________________ t seems one is supposed to feel sympathy for the victim of child abuse but never the abuser - no, they are to be condemned. That may be the natural response to child abuse, but without this recognition I don't believe the cycle of child abuse can be effectively broken. Sympathy for victim is no more effective treatment for child abuse than condemnation for the abuser. ________________________________________________ Please be very specific and describe the treatment you propose for the abuser. For this discussion let's assume the abuser will receive the needed amount of sympathy and/or condemnation.

We never did "say" there was a Santa Claus....felt it would be a lie, but did give out presents from him. When our daughter asked us about Santa we told her he did not exist and we were the ones putting gifts under the tree. We told her the santa's at the store were men dressed up to look like him. She knodded her head and didn't say much after that. She is now 18 and still gets presents from Santa every year.

Loy Boy was ranting and raving on some tape about all the sex that was going on between teenagers at one of the ROA in the early 90's. Supposedly some girl had gone to Donna complaining about all the sex, and Loy kicked into action with his manifestation of discerning of spirits. As I recall he named an animal spirit at work because the couples were letting others watch them.....only the animal kingdom does this I guess. And the ring leader boy had one of those dreaded '5 star general' spurts too. I can't remember how many of those ' buck private' spurts there were involved. As I recall there were some lieing and deception going on also. WOW....now that I think about it, Loy wasn't getting revelation at all....he was talking from experience!!!

Having seen Barry Lynn on television a couple of times, it is obvious he is nothing more than an apologist for Christianity. Can't believe he actually considers himself a Christian Minister.

Garth: ________________________________________________ So I guess thats why I find it rather amusing that many religious conservatives think that the 'politically correct liberals' are trying to 'steal' Christmas away from 'its true meaning'. Basically it was never really theirs to begin with as far as the meaning of the holiday goes. ________________________________________________ While this maybe the true origin of Christmas, when President Grant declared the federal holiday of Christmas 134 years ago, I don't image it was part of the celebration. The citizens of the United States were rejoicing in the birth of Jesus Christ, and set time aside on his supposed birthday to do that. You can even argue that December 25 is not Jesus Christ's birthday, but that doesn't make the federal holiday any less applicable. The holiday was made to recognize Christ, just like Martin Luther King's holiday was established to recognize Martin Luther King. I can't image eliminating King out of his January holiday, and say renaming it, "Down Hill Skiing Day" because someone felt offended by King. Finally Christians are standing up for what is right and not letting Christ being taken out of Christmas.

I agree Vickles....so many though have been put throught the winger so to speak, and are really at a disadvantage. I beleive we should return to something like the old orphanage system of days gone by. In this setting the children would return to the same environment, and not have to readapt to a new setting and new people each time they were taken from their bio parents. Some continuity would be very helpful and would be much less expensive.

Galen: ________________________________________________ Imagine being taken to a prison to be re-introduced to the father who molested you as an infant. Icck. All because he has parental rights and if he were only freed he could take you home with him. ________________________________________________ When I was married my wife couldn't have children so we decided to go the foster care route and adopt. WOW!! What an eye opener we were in for. By the time a child in foster care is even considered for adoption, they have been negelected or abused by their bio parents MULTIPLE times. These negelectful/abusive parents are given many chances to change and turn their lives around. When these poor, pitiful children are finally made available for adoption they are physically and mental screwed up for life. Many will require a lifetime of psychological counseling. They have been passed around the foster care system from family to family so many times, they lack the ability to bond into a normal child/parent relationship. Just to get some of these children to function minimually in a family setting is a major ordeal, and some never do. If anyone is considering going this route, these children will never bond to you as a child would, who say his parents died, and was put up for adoption. You need to be a very patient person and willing to give much love and not expect any in return. If we decided to adopt, the State wanted it to be an 'open adoption', meaning the low down, rotten parents who were responsible for this damage to their children, would still have some rights to the child. To me all parental rights should be terminated permanently if they abuse their children. And this guy should not be allowed to be around children once he gets out of prison. These jerks are never 'cured' and will continue abusing children. Needless to say we did not go this route. I am thankful we didn't for more than one reason, since we divorced, which would have compounded the problem more.

Why do people give Donald Trump so much credit? He has a hit TV reality show many can't get enough of. Then the next day the 'loser' who heard the infamous "your fired", is booked on TV to say what a wonderful guy he is. Talk shows and news programs have him on to dispense his advice. Yet his business is bankrupt, and this is not the first time either. He seems like a con artist who has made it to the big times.

.....and how about that tin of popcorn for only $6? A real bargain!

I absolutley refuse to buy anything for my 18 year old daughter.....too small, wrong color, last years style, only a geek would wear that Dad, etc, etc, etc. She thinks it is pretty cool to have a glass of wine once in awile, so I bought three single servering bottle of different wines, and wrapped a $50 bill around each one. As expected she shakes the presents all the time trying to figure out what they are. One of them apparently is not wrapped very tight because she can hear the liquid when she shakes the package. She can't imagine what it is, probably hoping it isn't some cheap perfume or a bottle of shampoo.

Abigail: ________________________________________________ I think, sometimes, we women assume that the man in our life should be like the leading men in romantic movies - - able to read our minds, always ready to offer the emotional and physical, but nonsexual support we need. In reality, they can't read our minds any more than we can read theirs. So, we have to clearly and specifically tell them what we want. ________________________________________________ AMEN!! AND AMEN!! Ohhhhhh, the problems that could be avoided if woman would only TELL USwhat they wanted! Of course it would be the man's responsibility to respond in an appropriate manner once the woman's needs are made known to him.

I am 57 and my sexual appetite has not gone down much. There are two buddies I grew up with from childhood and they are usually looking 'for a good time'. There a two guys I work with who say that are not that much interest in sex anymore. To be honest, 'feelings' and 'being in the right mood' have very little bearing with most men I know. Prior to marrying I dated very little so after my divorce I decided to date and educate myself about woman, in the event marrying ever entered into the picture again. Then I would have a better understanding of myself and what I was looking for in a mate. Over a period of 8 years and after dating 20 woman or so, some longer than others, I have found woman differ as much as men in their sexual appetites. Some show little desire and mainly engage in love making because I wanted to. It was a matter of 'let's get it over with', and I found this quite unfulfilling. There are those who have sexual desires and enjoy making love. After it is over they don't want much attention in that area until the next urge comes along. Some want sex for the love of sex. They are ready on a moments notice and not afaid to let you know it. These woman will tell and show you exactly what they like and dislike. Two people have to be honest and determine where their interests fall. Like any area of a relationship a couple can work together and determine a middle ground. When heads butt and lines are drawn is when problems begin.

Belle: ________________________________________________ What about - you reap what you sow? ________________________________________________ I believe whole heartily with this concept. My postings have to do with the possibility that VPW repented before he died. If you believe in prophecy and that Mal George is a prophet, his prophecy seems to indicate repentence. I can not imagine God being pleased with him if he did not repent. If you reject Mal George as a prophet, or if you question the prophecy he gave, then you may or may not believe Wierwille repented.

Garth as I stated at least three times because of your unbelief in prophecy, you are not going to believe in the prophecy of Mal George. To me that should end the discussion. You have every right to disagree with me and I respect that right. I have, by the same token, every right to disagree with you. We don't agree so let in go.

Garth: ________________________________________________ Any other questions? ________________________________________________ And you are whom? The final authority? The Vicar? The MOG of Greasespot? The source from whom all knowledge and truth eminates? Hey nobody said you had to believe anything so what is your problem? Maybe your thong is riding up a little high today? You don't believe in prophecy or that Mal George is a prophet----GREAT!! (you can fast forward to the next forum). I was speaking to those who do. If someone believes in prophecy and that Mal George is a prophet (again I know this does not apply to you Garth), then they have to consider his prophecy at VPW's funeral when evaluating whether he will be receiving rewards at the bema. If I told my son I was well pleased with him, you can bet I would not be holding much back from him. How does anyone know if a prophet's message is 'right on' or 'god breathed'? First you have to believe in prophecy and prophets (which I know does not apply to you Garth). But if someone does, they will have developed some kind of system to evaluate the authenticity of the messager an their message. If after consideration they believe Mal George is an authentic prophet who speaks for God, his message has to pack some weight in this matter. We read what horrible things Paul, David, and others in the bible did and hold them up as examples of God's forgiveness. We preach that if God can forgive all the rotten things they did, surely he will forgive you and me our mistakes.. We then feel a great burden lifted from ourselves because we know God has forgiven us. Well doesn't Wierwille, the board of trustees, and anyone else in TWI who has wronged us deserve the same forgiveness? What if it was you or I in TWI who were the evil doers? I'm sure there must be a few in here who were part of the problem? As a twig coordinator I came down pretty hard on some folks because they were hanging out with unbelievers, and told them to seperate themselves from their friends. They told me to "shove it" and left, cursing the day we had met. Should God forgive me? Or should they be looking forward to the day when God will unleash his mighty arm and punish me? Shouldn't I be able to look to God's forgiveness also? The Pope has spoken openly about forgiving his would be killer. I saw a woman on tv plead for the life of her son's killer because she had forgiven him. Have they ascended to a level some of us (myself included) have not yet risen to? Or are they wrong and it should be "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"? Or somewhere in between? I really don't know the answer to this question of forgiveness, but don't see how God can discriminate in passing it out, by making it conditional upon someone else looking forward to that person be judged. I certainly hope God is not going to punish me because someone I have wronged, is looking forward to the day, as Kit Sober is, of "Gehazi received his judgment, as I hope to see vpw receive his".

Spreewell Suspended For Sexual Vulgarity It just seems to get better and better!!

woooopsss wrong forum.....sorry

Bush Certified Winner in Ohio Why you are at it get a life!!

GarthP: ________________________________________________ Now why would a just god reward someone like VPW with more rewards and all, even given the deliberate abuses that VPW heaped upon people with such callousness? ________________________________________________ You or I have no idea if or when VPW repented. If he did, we don't know what he did with his life afterwards for God. Maybe he was a model Christian. I don't know what your belief on prophecy is, or your opinion of Rev Mal George as a prophet, but at VPW's funeral as he prophesied, he said "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased". If you don't believe in prophecy or that Rev George is a prophet then you will discard the above and maybe not expect much for VPW at judgment time. If you do believe in prophecy and Rev Mal George as a prophet, you have to give it some consideration when wondering if VPW will be have some rewards coning at the bema.

My point is, if some people are wronged by another, they look to the future judgement for those wrongs to be made right. They believe God will punish those who have harmed them or their loved ones when time is over, and then all will be okay. Like looking forward to the future with vegence and revenge. This belief seems to bring a sense of calming or satisfaction to the hurt party. Oldiesman I am referring to Kit Sober's statement: ________________________________________________ "Gehazi received his judgment, as I hope to see vpw receive his". ________________________________________________ To me this indicates she is looking forward to a time when VPW will be judged and she will be present. Or at least have knowledge of the judging. She is looking forward now to that time in the future, she is anticipating it. What if the person who did the wrong (VPW in this case) had asked God for forgiveness and received it, will the wronged person be disappointed because God has not meted out punishment?

Quote: ________________________________________________ Kit: Gehazi received his judgment, as I hope to see vpw receive his ________________________________________________ Revenge, or at least some kind of 'Godly Punishment' in the future, seems to be a big part of some Christian's attitude. What if VPW actually was sorry for the wrongs he had committed before he died, and God forgave him, like the bible says He will? What if, when it comes time for the judgments to be meted out, and VPW and any other evil doers who have repented, don't get hell fire, 50 lashes, or their hands slapped, will you be disappointed? What if God gives them a slap on the back and says "good job my good and faithful servant, come on it". What if someone you thought their rewards should have been taken away for all the evil they had done, actually end up with more rewards or a higher position than you? Will you rebel against God, or rejoice and celebrate their life and be content?

Had a very good time at my division party. We rented 4 lanes at the bowling alley and everyone seemed to enjoy throwing a ball at mostly regulation pins with a few colored ones tossed in to possibly win a prize. We had a side pot with everyone throwing in a dollar. For every stike you threw, you drew 2 playing cards, and for every spare you drew 1. After the 10th frame the person with the highest poker hand won the pot (I had a jack high staight, but was beat by a queen high :D-->). The bosses had an open tab at the bar for about an hour so that was nice too. Plenty of horses-doovers to snack on also.

I think my choice would have to be John Townsend. He worked hard at making himself a VP clone. He always seemed to use the same phrases and tone of voice as The Teacher.

HEY--I resemble some of these remarks!!

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