Stayed Too Long

That is sick man!! You should join the blue collar tour and make some money.

Doctrine apparently is not a high priority in your decision to return to the RC church. Maybe familiarity or friendliness are values you needed in the church you decided to attend. To me it doesn't matter what the reason is just so you feel comfortable and it makes you happy. Someone else may find a small stream off the beaten path, in a grove of trees, ideal for worshipping. I would look at the reputation of the group also. The RC's have a history of their leaders molesting children and then covering it up. Red flags jump out at me.

Amen!!!...put very concisely.

I used to have the same dream over and over of someone chasing me. My legs would be so tired and aching they would not move any faster, and I would be in a panic to keep going, for fear of getting captured. The person never caught me and at some point I told myself it was only a dream and when I woke up everything would be okay. Sure enough I would wake up and realize it was just a dream and go back to sleep. I have not had the dream for years now and don't have a clue why it stopped. I very seldom have any recollection of dreams. I understand we all dream but I sure don't remember them very often.

Yes I am saying the same standards should be applied to all groups when it comes to judging their actions. Perhaps it has been wonderful for many in TWI also. Pershaps there are wonderful people and wonderful leaders who have helped many in TWI. And I surely don't believe all the leadership in TWI are molesters/abusers. But if we are saying that because the leadership of The Way has abused/molested their people we should not follow them, then the same standard should also apply to other groups, especially when the abuse has been so wide spread and gone on for so long. IN addition I grew up in the RC church and can tell you from personal, frightening experience they use fear to whip people into shape. Believe me when I say TWI has nothing over the RC's when it comes to applying fear to keep people in line. The nuns and priests I knew were just as intimidating as Wierwille or Martindale when it came to demanding obedience. The fear of going to hell was always looming for those leaving or not towing the line.

The fear I would become a "greasespot by midnight" kept me around for many years because I so believed God would bring some horrible disease or accident upon me or my family. Fear is definitely a motivator that will ensure compliance and staying in line. Pile upon that loosing all the rewards and crowns I had earned, they really had me. If TWI had not mark and avoid me I don't know to this day if I would have ever gotten the courage to leave. I was a mess after being out just waiting for the ultimate tradgedy to happen, but then one day I realized my mind was still intact and health quite sound. Around that time I also happened upon GreaseSpot Cafe which has turned out to be such a life saver. Seeing others were having similar fears after leaving TWI, relieved many concerns and enabled me to get on with my life once again.

Yesterday I visited my daughter, who is a student at the University of Montana, and we decided to get a cuppa joe at one of the local coffee shops. It was rather late when we walked in and there were only two tables with patrons sitting around. One table was in front of the counter where we ordered and had to wait several minutes for our drinks. After receiving our drinks we walked to a vacant table and sat down. As we were enjoying the coffee and conversation, I recognized one of the people sitting at the table in front of the counter as someone we knew from TWI. I called out his name from across the near empty room and he said 'hello'. Soon he and his two friends invited themselves over to our table, asked if they could sit with us, and we invited them to join us. Since I hadn't seen him for 10 years I did not know his 'innie' status, but then immediately realized we had just stood in front of their table for several minutes waiting for our drinks, and he did not say a word to us, so figured he was probably still with The Way. I did not recognize him while we were waiting or would have said something then. It turns out his two friends are the TWI leaders for the State of Montana and were not aware we were ex-TWI (I am M&A and my daughter left a few years later). Since my daughter is a student the conversation started about school. The leader wife said they had graduated from a bible college in Colorado and I immediately asked if they were with the Way. She said yes and wondered how I knew of the Way. I told here up until 10 years ago I was with the Way. She and her husband then put together their friend had known us from the Way, which obviously he hadn't told them. I figured then they wouldn't start witnessing to us, which they didn't, so the conversation just remained along school lines and talking about old times and people in twig. After 30 minutes or so we went our seperate ways. During the entire conversation I felt no ill will towards them nor had any desire to say how rotten were Wierwille and Martindale. I didn't want to lash out at them and say how many people had been hurt by the Way, including myself. I viewed them as people living their lives just like any other. Sure I do not agree with their theology but don't agree with any others either. After dropping my daughter off at her dorm and driving home, I began mulling over in my mind our conversation with them. I thought about the sexual abuse many woman had endured at the hands of Way leadership. Then, for some reason, my thoughts turned to the Roman Catholic church and all of the sexual abuse they have practiced for decades and perhaps centuries. Known pedophiles were allowed to remain in positions of leadership with children for a life time. If they were discovered they were simply moved to a new area to continue their child abuse. Leadership at the highest levels in the United States knew for years this was going on, after all they were the ones transferring the penophiles around. The head of the church in Rome refused to even acknowlege his priests were sexually abusing children until the press began pushing the issue. My point is the Way has been rightly condemned for using their influence to abuse woman. This web site and the people here want the world to know how wrong TWI is, and are doing their best to let others know so they don't experience the same pitfalls. We see how detramental it has been to woman who are adults to have been abused by those in positions of leadership. It has a lasting effect on victims. But with this knowledge many still belong to, and even join the Catholic church, swearing how wonderful it has been for them. How anyone can know in their mind that thousands, mainly young boys (children), have been sexually abused by these perverts and can still support them, is simply mind boggling to me. In my estimation the RC church is one of the sickest and most perverted group on the face of the earth. Their leadership parade around in white robes and beanies but underneath they are corrupted. If there is a God, and His venegence day is coming, surely they will burn in hell, including the previous one who is on the fast track to sainthood. Maybe now I realize, to some extent, why people stay in TWI, Roman Catholicism, or any other organization that is abusive, if they have the physical freedom to leave. First they have to be able to justify or overlook the obvious abuse. It is not personal to them or has not affected their lives adversely to any great extent. Second the group meets some need they have, whether material, emotional, spiritual, financial, whatever. It gives something back to the individual, which may only be to reassue the person they will not go to hell or loose their rewards if they stay, even though they do not necessarily want to be there. These are two reasons I have been ascertain and am sure there are many more.

Cheney accepts responsibilty for shooting hunter. "You can talk about all of the other conditions that exist at the time but that's the bottom line and — it was not Harry's fault," he said. "You can't blame anybody else. I'm the guy who pulled the trigger and shot my friend."

That is some pretty tall grass for a man not to be clearly seen. Would love to have that stand of grass if I was a hay farmer.

Too funny!! I love Jon Stewart and the Daily Show.

There is nothing neocons will not do to support Cheney....even risk death as evidenced by this blinded supporter. In that sense we are like Osama's followers....only instead of 72 virgins we will receive (into manifestation of course) Jimmy Carter, Ted Kennedy, Nancy Palosi, Harry Reid, Al Franken, and Groucho dancing in pink tutus before Dubya.

It is fine with me to hunt cute little birds, just don't chase those cute little San Quentin quail.

Cheney accidentally shoots fellow hunter.

Anyone who makes a claim and it is subsequently challenged and proven false, and then the liar starts 'spinning' their false statements, and begins attacking the challenger, is not only a bad "G'spotter" but also a bad person. pooh pooh on them. Also those who begin cursing at or calling fellow poster's names because they do not agree with their view is also a bad apple. Disagreement is wonderful and when the argument is kept on a level of discussion all is well. But when people feel "personally challenged" or "personally put down" because a belief contrary to theirs is expressed, then it get ugly real fast. I have been in some heated discussions in the 'tacks' forum but have not felt anyone was 'bad' because we could not agree on a given topic. In the Doctrinal section when a discussion begins about a particular religious view and does not venture into attacking those who do not believe in God or in their personal belief, the discussion is pretty much left alone. The biggest problem I have seen in the "Open" forum as of late, is some medical advise being challenged with documented research to the contrary. Facts seem to get in the way of popular belief's and can create some hard feelings.

Click here and then click on line that says: "Please click here before purchasing to see important information about this photo." For as little ast $39.95 you can purchase a signed photograph of the Seinfeld cast, or for $125.00 a signed picture of John Gotti with a 9mm handgun and 2 bullets. Of course all with the disclaimer these are not really their signatures. Apparently you can sell anything as authentic if you say it really isn't, and it seems, people will buy it knowing it is not genuine.

I have had several come onto me in Yahoo chat rooms. They have quite a sob story, next want to send a picture of themselves so we can get acquainted, and then ask for money.

Could not find any instances where a woman was denied an abortion if her health was in question. Here are some references to it being legal in all states for that reason: Abortion Legal In Washington for therapeutic reasons prior to Roe v Wade Abortion Legal for Mother's Health. All Abortion Legal in 4 States in 1970

I work for an insurance company and can tell you any information about other patients is strictly protected from disclosure. HIPAA regulations are quite clear about Protected Health Information (PHI) and this woman is not entitled to any information about other patients. If the hospital gave that information out without a court order they could face prosecution. If I should learn of a friend or family member being sick through them filing a claim, and they did not personally tell me of their illness, I could not contact them about their illness. If I visited them and said something like, "Sorry you are sick" or "is there anything I can do for you," I would be breaking the law. And if my employeer found out about it could lead to disciplinary caction up to being fired.

You bet they were walking with God. This is a perfect example of how the adversary will "hit you hard" when "you are really walkin'".

Lennon was my least favorite of the Fab 4. After Yoko Ono came on the scene he diminished even more in my eyes as she seemed to be splitting the group up. It was difficult for me to image life without John, Paul, George, and Ringo, as they were such an important part of my life growing up in the 60's. As time went on and I actually thought about the lyrics in their songs I was glad they had broken up. 'Imagine' was an eye opener, realizing they advocated world one world government and the abolishment of religion. When Lennon was shot I remember asking myself why he decided to live in a luxery hotel and not give all his money away? If he was really for the rich taking care of everyone why did he need to wait for the government to take action? Why didn't he just empty his bank account and feed the masses?

In looking at TWI website where did Harve Platig go? There are now 3 Vice Presidents. What have I missed ALONG THE WAY?

In all fairness to TWI at what other school could you get tuition, books, room and board for $300 a month in the 80s? Don't think they were making oodles of money from tuition. Granted we had to work 4 hours a day, but still $300 was dirt cheap. In 1971 I attended a class at a private college to the tune of $40 per credit. This did not include books, room, or board.

Over the past 9 years since being booted fromTWI I have attended a variety of churches. At first I did find myself comparing their teachings to what we were taught in PFAL. This bothered me to some extent but got over it. Then I realized they were still the same empty places I had left years before ever hearing about TWI. Now I have no desire to attend any of them and feel much better about myself. If there really is a God who made us and who we will answer to some day, he sure fell short in the department of letting us know how to live this life. Even in Western society which predominately accepts the bible as God's words, there are thousands of versions of how to interpret it. Apparently we all have to guess which one will work for us. Can you imagine applying this same logic to learn how electricty works?

Predictions are like keeping a New Year's Resolution---it never happens.

Is Willy Wonka aware of this?