Mike

Wow! That Douglas Adams really NAILED IT, on how things really are! :)

I figured out your hint to that, but was unsuccessful in finding them on the page. I have eye issues.

I'm not holding my breath, but things odd things happen at times. I just want to be ready.

I did a little, but could find no tab that said "Who's REALLY in charge here." I think they still want that a bit of a secret, if it's Craig on zoom. But I cant find the puppet board members either. I like getting in touch with them ever several years. At some point I think I can help them. BTW, after 41 years in business and seeing about 600 different companies, I know that it is OFTEN the case in business where the person REALLY in charge wants to keep that info from easy public access. It's to avoid accountability, and other reasons.

What are the full names of the new Board of Trustees?

This is true. We argued the facts already, and I am done. I'll happily help someone with a hungry heart to learn, who wants to sort thru them all. But I see no value in my trying to get all those ducks in a row again. Years ago there was great value to me and to a few others (so they tell me) for me to dredge through all those things. There was a lively audience here of widely mixed interests. I gathered much data from them and gave much data back in return. But that audience is now spent. Every point mentioned in this thread has been addressed numerous times in the past. I pretty much only came back to say hello and shmooze a little. In my mind the debate is over... long over.

New Topic: Did something happen to the GreaseSpot archives? I know that there were several software changes complicating such an archive. I am in touch with several civilized TWI people who are saying TWI has calmed down and "won't cha come on back home" attitudes are abounding there now. I say to them, GREAT, please give me the name of the TWI official who is in charge of reparations, so I can send him a copy of the GreaseSpot Archive. Here is another thing I said to one such friendly TWI person about this: "There are all kinds of reparations (repair-ations) that can be done, regardless of the attitudes of the victims. "For instance, a major reparation (repair job) would be to resurrect the decision process that went into banning the “John Scheonheit Paper on Adultery” in 1986. "That banning decision and process should be revealed and all the names revealed that sighed off on it. Then we can ask them personally if they still think there was no need for that paper. "I especially want to know which official it was that stated that anyone who even READS the paper is in danger of devil possession and believing in the Trinity. Then, an apology should be sent to all those who were kicked out over it. "Just like TWI keeps track of all their successes, there should be an entire book published by TWI where their whole process downward is documented: from rejecting VPW before his death, to the Scheionheit paper, to complete abdication of the ministry to Chris Geer for two years…. and on, and on. "These things are all in our memory, and documented in the Grease Spot Café’s archives. They won’t go away. TWI once had the greatest teaching in the world contrary to stinky religion, and then THEY BECAME the biggest, cultist, stinkiest religion I have ever seen. "I think it is smarter to admit to it all, own up to having handed the whole ministry over to the devil. "If TWI officials were to reach out to us for help in their recovery, that could be respected. "They are very guilty and pretending to have no problems.Them, pretending that the worst of the worst never happened there, and denying the complete failure there for decades, is not respectable. "I can greatly respect you for facing us here in this matter. Why are no TWI officials doing what you are doing? Someone like you needs to minister to the TWI officials. They need to face the music."

Such advice was in the minority, to actually avoid the gospels. Maybe avoid spending too much time in them was advised, and rightly, at times. We were advised to put heavy emphasis on the Epistles, because they were so terribly ignored for centuries, even after Martin Luthor's insights. Anyone who actually advised avoiding the Gospels must have avoided reading JCOP and JCNG and JCPS. Like I said, I feel a person had to work very hard to miss the love and character of Jesus Christ in TWI-1. I know I did not miss him.

Yes, I saw it and commented on another thread with the same video. I completely agree with johniam here in this thread, that J. Juiedes is on a hate trip. I think those who did not get a good appreciation for Jesus and his love and leadership from PFAL and TWI-1 had to work extra hard to avoid him all those years! We all had our Bibles open every day, and the 4 Gospels were involved. JCOP is a masterpiece at presenting the accomplishments of Jesus. It's the syrupy sweet emotional Jesus relationship that we were taught (mostly by example) to avoid.

Bravo! Good to see you still kicking, johniam! :) Are you still swinging a squeegee? I am, but far less now. I'm 72.

Defining free will is a big part of the problem. Classic definitions seem to be more influenced by centuries old philosophy and Medieval religion, than by neuroscience. I have based my ideas on Daniel Dennett's writings on free will, where new definitions are proposed. From what I see, the free will that the human brain enjoys is very weak, compared to classical descriptions of if. None of it happens immediately, and if any does happen there is a delay involved, and the possible need for repetition.

Actually, the mirror riddle is more a language issue. As I explained to cman above, the confusion attached to the riddle is generated by people accidentally drifting from one definition of the word "reverse" to another. At most, it involves simple optics with the language situation. The Physics that I have enjoyed in recent years is slightly more advanced than Phy 101, in the area of complex, damped, driven oscillators. Dance, for me came from my 40 year hobby of tinkering with toys that could dance. A slinkie was one such toy. I exploit Physics for energy saving tips on high speed dance. I try to dance to every note in a song, even approaching Jerry Garcia's guitar noodling. I was prepped for this kind of dance by 40 years of window cleaning, where I push my body for speed, accuracy, and endurance. */*/* Sorry, Twinky. I just don't buy your perspective, that the PFAL class (and books) is merely man-given. If you look at my perspective, OF COURSE God is allowed to give revelation for a class that would bless many. I saw its benefits in the past, as well as currently. But we debated this for many years. You are not bringing up anything new. */*/* Sorry to ignore you Wordwolf. Too many details; too many repeats. I hope your attention to detail helps in your ministering to people. Why would you be more curious about my publishing success than in my little mirror explanation to cman here? Writing a book is one thing; publishing another. Self-publishing is easy and free nowadays. I'm more interested in the circulation of the ideas than paper printing and "official" fame. Most of what I write in recent years on free will first appears in discussion forums with others who are focused on this difficult topic. I was fascinated by free will because there seems to be no discussion of it in the Bible, yet VPW made a big deal out of it. That was one issue to deal with. Another issue is the fact that free will has been baffling philosophers for centuries, and modern neuroscience seems to be rejecting the notion of free will completely. It's a tangled issue; more tangled than the mirror riddle.

No, Twinky. I haven't left the building. Just bored with all the same-old-thing that seems to be on everyone's mind. cman, thanks for taking the mirror bait. I have learned SO much from the mirror riddle these past 15 years. First, I wrote a short book about it, then had a one-page summary of my solution published in an "Encyclopedia of Science," and then saw my solution morph out to be useful in solving some of the mysteries in human free will. Here is a quick summary: The riddle becomes nearly insolvable as people unconsciously drift between two possible definitions of what is meant by “reverse.” Not everyone suffers from this tendency to drift, but enough do to make the mirror riddle survive thousands of years. The first definition is what I call the Sherlock Holmes approach. This says “Don’t move anything” before comparing the object with its image in a mirror. You just did this first definition, cman, and you came up with the observation that the mirror does NOT reverse left and right. The other definition is quite the opposite approach. It says “DO MOVE things” before comparing the object with its image in a mirror. This approach wants the image and the object to be facing the same direction BEFORE comparing them. When you perform this second definition it results in the observation that the mirror DOES reverse left and right. I have noted that humans have a strong tendency to do this second definition’s action when the two objects to be compared are nearly identical. As I examined how confusing this drift from definition to definition, it inspired me to search to see it this same kind of thing was happening in the age-old riddle of how can we have free will in the light of microscopic determinism ruling all of our “parts.”

Rocky et all, Because I didn't visit to debate, my ducks are not all in a row. I had an after thought; an augmentation. This also answers my comments on that other thread with J.Juedes video. ***** Another aspect of "acting out the Christ within" is service. I remember how VPW presented a mind-picture of Jesus' personality at the 1975 AC that I attended with a tape by Elizabeth Burns who wrote a very popular autobiography in 1957 titled "The Late Liz." In that tape Liz describes the thing that turned her attention toward Jesus Christ. Somehow she was given a mind-picture of Jesus being a Porter, ready to carry her bags at the train station. I was taught that Jesus' attitude was the greatest leader is a servant of all. Acting out the Christ in us means looking for ways to help others. There are so many ways we can still learn to do this.

Rocky, I genuinely meant it, that I have a reasonable expectation in imagining you being able, at this date, to "act him out." It’s because you were a grad. Doing this "acting out" was supposed to be what we DO with our dose of "Christ in you the hope of glory." I’ll try to prove it to you, and then submit my proof to the judges. All thru my history with TWI (1971-88) I looked for and found mentors who seemed to be “acting out” the Christ in them. They were people who HELPED me with various things. I learned to always be on the lookout, as I moved about the ministry, for the more articulate leaders, who could explain things well. This is how I avoided the corrupting spots in the ministry as things brewed. Spotting leaders like this on the field was easy in the 1970s because there were so many of them. There were some intense bright spots here and there, like Rye NY, where I grew up in the Word. This has been discussed here to general agreement of almost all. But in later years, mentor-like leaders became less abundant, and hard to find. Many of them were tasked with too many management duties, some got tired and burned out, and by the mid 80s it got very hard for me to find MENTORS of PFAL, people who were acting out the Christ in them. The “acting out” was operating the manifestations effectively, prayer, renewed mind LOVE, wisdom, knowledge. When things started radically falling apart in 1987 (I was late in noticing), I started calling up all my old mentors and any others I could get try and get a hold of. They were not helpful at all. They were in retreat. It even seemed many had an actual lowering of IQ. Their enthusiasm was shot, and many were bitter. I went thru a ten year period where there were none of these mentors in my life. I couldn’t trust any of the leaders of any of the ministry factions. But then, in 1998 one finally popped up, from the lower ranks of the Family Corps. He helped me with what was troubling me in PFAL and the ministry. He did it by having his orange book open while I had my orange book open. We did this a lot, for over 10 years. When I claimed here at GSC that I “saw” Jesus Christ at the Return with an orange book in his hand, it was in the way this grad was “acting out” the Christ in him. It was like he was a walking-talking PFAL book. He helped me. He opened the book and class for me in a bigger way than I had known before. Where ALL of the other leaders and former leaders of TWI had utterly failed me for 11 years, THIS grad was answering all my questions and opening up PFAL like I had not seen it in years. I saw the Christ in him, and this taught me in a big way a tiny glimpse of what the Return of Christ was going to be like. AND it inspired me to “act out” the Christ in me (via the manifestations and renewed mind…best of my ability) for others around me. It still energizes me, now including dance and fun social things. I think I used an odd verb tense when I first posted this. Maybe the “acting out” part was missing or unclear. Whatever happened, Tom Strange mis-understood my claim to “what I saw” in my original post on this, and I tried to correct him several times, over many months of time, but he was more interested in the Gotchya Game, thinking he had caught me painting myself in a corner. So, I let him. He was constantly trying to catch me on it, and it became a big cat and mouse game (or Road Runner game) and I used it as a vehicle for intensifying discussions, and then I’d dodge my way out of answering it. I tried weakly a few times over the years to come clean, but no one would hear it, or it seemed un-important, so I gave up. So it stayed buried all this time. So, Rocky, I finally answered Tom Strange’s challenge NOW, because it so neatly and simultaneously answered your challenge to explain the “act out.” I submit my proof to the judges.

Thanks, Raf. :) LoL It's things like this that I peeked back in for. If it's any consolation, the archive we generated was not a waste if you look at it, the entire GSC record, as a major historical document in itself. It is a VERY thorough airing of hundreds of intense TWI issues, thousands of unrelated issues, and the mirror riddle. Scholars who find such an archive several generations from now will have a data rich resource.

I didn't come here to debate or waste anyone's time. I said my peace, and wish everyone well. It was quite an adventure for all of us to so intensely cover so many subjects. My compliments to the mods all the way back to Pawtucket, in that they kept the intensity from swamping the whole website. It was quite an adventure (for those who saw it) a few decades prior to GreaseSpot in the early Seventies, where a good 10 years of not perfect, but still massive blessings occurred in our midst, all around the world.

I can testify to the factuality of this! Except I do it to Grateful Dead recordings in my earbuds.

T-Bone, one of the most extensively covered topics I handled in my active years here was this plagiarism issue. You and most others rejected all my points then, and probably can't remember all of them. I do; most of them. I feel no need to continue with you on this. What would be the point? I am thankful that I had the chance to put all my ducks in a row, and in writing, here. What I don't remember I can look up in my private GreaseSpot archive. But I remember enough usually to help grads perplexed by this issue, thanks to all the practice I got here. I'm sure God will generously reward all those writers who served as sources for VPW, and He will reward VPW for all his actions that were right in heart as he served others, just as He will reward you for all those people you help to see that God is love. So, relax. Everyone will get paid, properly. I doubt if you can count on any rewards for you crusade against plagiarism, though. I'm Lolling Out Loud.

That's an interesting "tipping point" you are perched on, Allan. You sound a little like Columbo stalking his suspect. Actually, in recent years I have latched on bigtime to HOW sailboats work. It utterly fascinates me, the way they can move AGAINST the wind, and to be able to travel FASTER than the wind. It has inspired me to work out a whole theory on free will mechanisms in the human brain. If I continue in this vein, will that get one quarter of your attention? Are you currently working any or all four of those items? You have my attention if you have any light on them.

Rocky, if you really don't know what I mean by acting him out I feel sorry for you. I hope you actually DO know the answer to this, and that you can do it also. If you really are impoverished in this area, and are seeking my help, then your first job is to convince me that you really want my help, and you are not playing "Gotchya" here. That may be at task too big for you. Meanwhile, do you think the Padres have a crack at the Pennant this year?

That's great to hear. Think of how many THOUSANDS of others have SIT now to enjoy! We were a part of a huge move from God. God used flawed ministers (like us) to make this available around the world. I like singing in tongues to loud Rock music while I dance.

T-Bone, I though it was always my position that FOR REVELATIONS from God, there can be no legitimate owner or copywrite owner. It is in this category I look at the priorities attached to copyrights and judicial law as PUNY by comparison to the real ownership God claims to His own revelations. I think copyrights are fine for worldly matters. When two jurisdictions conflict (God's and man's) then I care nothing about man's.

I think VPW predicted the reaction you describe on FoS. The academicians are way behind on that. Instead of looking at that academician's "heavy tome" as a credential, you should have asked those who read the book if it helped them. I'm not trying to keep track of all that's said in this thread, but I think you asked about SIT. I remembered another benefit I've noticed in highlights lately. When pulling my hair out dealing with difficult believer personalities, I find great rest in SIT. Instead of my English "self talk" chatter trying to come up with the right words to help this difficult person next time I see them,,, instead of that scene, I now revert to SIT which is perfect prayer for the same difficult person.

Waysider, I'm so glad I can do it, and enjoy it so much. In TIP Excellors' Sessions I'd teach how much fun SIT is and is even a little like dance. Now that I've RECENTLY gotten heavily into dance, I can say it's extremely verified. The mechanics of speech in SIT are similar to the mechanics of dance. Oddly, I've discovered that dance is like a forced smile. A forced smile can confuse a depression for about 3 seconds. But DANCE is like a forced smile on the whole body, and it obliterates depression, sometimes for hours. It is massive fun, especially when mixing in the social interactions. I've also ignited on the adventure of witnessing EARLY about SIT, rather than building up to it slowly. There's a whole generation that has never heard of it. It can be a cool way to show people something tangible, that's not abstract. I've also been reaching out to grads who still have not developed much fluency in SIT. I used to deal with that in Excellors' Sessions long ago, also.