Mike

I am still working on my understanding of that law. Do you accept the words of Jesus on believing? He talked about it a lot. Are you familiar with his teachings on believing and what it can and can't do?

No it's more the attitudes of trust and believing that he had, and mix that with the Word which contains the promises of God. With a mind believing the promises of God and having holy spirit, it is possible to do all the things that Jesus did. So it's the attitudes and the power where we can be effective replacements for Christ Jesus, the man who is absent.

The simple phrase "the Bible" is very ambiguous. Does it mean the originals? One of the critical Greek texts? All the critical Greek texts, ignoring their differences? The thousands of translations ??? We can't buy a Bible that is the official Word of God. Most of us have HEAVILY marked up our KJV to make it more accurate, but we all did it differently. To say that "The Bible is God's Word" could have a lot of different meanings for what "the Bible" is. Often context helps fix this, but not always. I believe written PFAL is God-breathed, but it has NO NEW DOCTRINE in it. It is old doctrine, clarified or fixed where it was broken. It does not cover all the scriptures, but does make if possible for us to work those other scriptures. But written PFAL and all Bible versions are worthless if they stay in written form, and not taken in and digested in the mind. Jesus said that man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God. The holy spirit in us is (Christ in us) built up by the words of SIT. The forming Christ-like personality in our minds needs the food of the Word, and is built up by it. They both need constant refreshing of this food, just like our bodies need food constantly. In many ways our bodies and brain are designed to teach us spiritual realities like the food of the Word.

Read closer. I was talking about the relatives of Uriah and their feelings.

Yeah, the answers were right under you nose, weren't they. I had this notion of how walking in hate towards a brother blinds the mind. What I see happening here often is a religion of hate, and sin focus. I think that if people were able to even temporarily disengage from their "mission" of blowing the whistle on VPW, which is really a sin focus perspective, then lots of things would become clear that were not. I think if some were NOT so focused on anti-VPW stuff, they'd have been able to come up with the answers to those two questions. Either people ARE blinded by the negatives here, OR their understanding of PFAL was shallow and missed a lot of detail. To severely and persistently criticize what one does not know well is unwise. I was being cagey in describing those two questions as moderately difficult. I meant for posters here, focused on negatives, they'd be moderately difficult. I will try these questions on some local grads who are just enjoying the Word and avoid the negatives like I try to do most of the time.

Off topic.

I could understand your question better with a more precise location of the comma you suggest. Did you mean session 5 or 7 of the film class? I'm surprised to hear that it is in the foundation class. I will start looking there. I knew my memory was weak on this, and I wanted to find it to get things more accurate. There could easily be an error in my statement needing a comma. */*/*/* As far as the Hayflick Limit goes, I always figured that is what the Tree of Live was all about, to keep the physical atoms tuned up.

Thank you Raf. You and Pawtucket are Paragons of Free Speech !

Thank you again, T-Bone I actually get some of my ideas for suggestions to TWI leaders from GSC. I am discussing this behind the scenes with some GSC posters and lurkers already. TWI being an evil corporation has ended, IMO. They admit to me in private that there is still work to do in cleaning up past errors. It is largely a whole new crew in charge and doing the work. They are MUCH more approachable than they had been for about 40 years. Thanks again, T-Bone for meeting me half way.

Ok, it looks to me that my two moderately difficult questions have been seen by most regular posters, and that none can or none wants to answer them. Here is the short answer to the absent Paradise. I wish I remember WHERE we were taught this, but had God allowed Adam and Eve to stay and eat of the tree of life, then they would live forever under the devil’s rule and ownership. Prior to Pentecost, the only way to totally escape from the devil was to die. But after Pentecost, it became possible to be born again, from above, and have a new nature that is created by God and cannot sin. Now, all we have to do to escape the devil is count the old man dead, and live in the new man. So, the absent Paradise makes it possible for us to live in the new Paradise of the future, and be more than conquerors until then. */*/*/*/* Answer to moderately difficult question #2 : The devil tried his best to make Christ absent by killing him. But God had a secret plan, to make Christ MORE present by raising him from the dead, and then 50 days later, to ascend to become physically absent. Had the devil known that all of us would get Christ in us and the potential to beat the devil just like Jesus did, then he would NOT have killed Christ. This is written. This is the answer to why the PHYSICALLY absent Christ is beneficial to us. Instead of having Christ WITH us like the apostles had in the Gospels, in only one geographical location at a time, we all have Christ in us and with us wherever we go. Had the devil known this secret plan for a widely distributed Christ he’d have backed off his crucifixion plan. Instead of only one Christ in one location to beat the devil, now there are millions that can beat him. That is the reason Christ is physically absent. It is so we can have Christ live within every one of us, and make Christ everywhere present wherever we go. We were taught this abundantly. Limb leaders taught this to branch leaders, who taught it to twig leaders, who taught it to new people. This “Christ present in all of us” doctrine was probably the most often repeated teaching in the ministry. I heard it hundreds of times, if I include casual conversations with formal teachings. The physical Christ is absent so we ALL can have Christ within, permanently, and incorruptible.

If and when student loans are forgiven, that is a free pass for them. If and when we confess (admit, agree) our sins we are forgiven FAITHFULLY by God, no matter what the sin. People can't do this, but God can, and He promises it in 1 John 1:9 When we are forgiven by God we are cleansed from all unrighteousness. That means we get a free pass from God and He is not at all inclined to punish, but very inclined to resume work moving His Word with us. People are not so inclined to forgive, and when they do they usually remember the hurt and there is no free pass from them or others who see the hurt. These are very difficult issues. Studying Uriah's family and how they handled the hurt from David is enlightening. Some did not give a free pass to David, some did. The ones who did forgive and forget (somewhat) had the great benefit of hearing God's Word from David again. I also wonded how well people were able to forgive Paul, who had murdered some of their family and friends. Have you ever placed yourself in their shoes, and felt what they felt. Similar to the Uriah situation. David did not get a free pass from the devil and from some of Israel. From what I hear VPW did not get a free pass from people. He had to have bodyguards, and I hear he was sometimes in fear. But God is good. God does give us all a free pass to start all over, cleansed. God is good.

Well, of course, it is the case that I am opposing what you think are most the most important points. We differ on what is an important priority here. I think it is most important that we all get more of God's Word into our lives. Ministers will always sin and screw up at times. Let's be thankful for all days we can have fellowship with God and His Son. The absent Christ helps us do that (another hint to one of the two moderately difficult questions).

Sheesh! WordWolf. You sure do embrace a lot of silly errors:

I had said: "I find it tragic that VPW was not the man he knew to be. Had he been, many more could have been blessed and blessed bigger. But as it was, many did get blessed, and God gave him a free pass, just like He wants to give us all one we don't deserve, and far more." So, T-Bone, it looks to me that you hadn't picked up on my reference to 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Or maybe you never considered that God is faithful in this, even when we are not. Or maybe you never considered that this cleanses us from ALL unrighteousness. No, I was only thankfully expecting God to be faithful to forgive us all and let us serve, in spite of the sin in our lives. Of course we'd do better, MUCH better, if we avoided the sin. That is what I was lamenting. But I am still thankful for those days when VPW was in fellowship and serving us with what God taught him. Are you sure this is not projection on your part, and that YOU are assuming a high role or something when you proclaim that my direction is mis-direction. I am directing us to consider that the absent Christ is a good thing, done by God to bless us. Did you see Oldiesman's post? Is that mis-direction, to bring up ambassador for Christ? You get plenty of text out on what you think is proper direction, but does it jive with God's written Word? I think not. But that's just my direction. We will get this fully aired when Christ comes back.

Thanks Oldiesman. That ambassador angle is good. I had not thought of explaining it that way.

It's not an "OR" something; it's "AND" something(s). The other things, after receiving the Word somewhat accurately (like Jesus did), are retaining that Word in mind against opposing circumstances (like Jesus did), and then releasing that Word in love (like Jesus did). If those three are not happening at all, then Christ-within (pneuma hagion) pretty much IS absent in their lives. I suppose we can coast on what we know and receive no more and have SOME presence of Christ within, but coasting on what we know means RETAINING. Sure, we can coast on retaining and not release, but that is a pretty stunted life with Christ. Also, the Eve Syndrome is sure to set in with such minimal renewed mind, and with adding/subtracting/changing, pretty soon there is no Word left to retain. */*/*/* NEW TOPIC (very temporary) - The RRR process I outlined above was happening a lot in the 70s. I feel for those grads, like you I think, who took the class after the ministry meltdown in 1986. I can't blame you if you think the ANDs I supplied to answer your frustration above are futile. If I had not seen RRR working in my life and many others, I'd think it was futile also.

No, actually, it's always a disgusting mess when ANYONE’S old man nature is closely examined. I just don't find any profit in ME discussing that. I have my reasons for focusing on what I can understand and grasp. I find it tragic that VPW was not the man he knew to be. Had he been, many more could have been blessed and blessed bigger. But as it was, many did get blessed, and God gave him a free pass, just like He wants to give us all one we don't deserve, and far more. I have a hard time giving up grudges. There were times I had a grudge against VPW. I only went full bore PFAL starting in 1998. There were plenty of times in the 1980s I was disappointed in him. But I did see enough good that I wanted others to see the same good I saw. I am sure many people in Israel, and especially in Uriah’s family, had great angst over David. For those who knew David well, and that he was often inspired by the True God, it must have given them great pain. What a waste! But some of them eventually saw that the Psalms were worth more than them having great angst and throwing the Psalms away. That is not an easy position to hold, TRUST me, because it is very similar to my position. */*/*/* We think too small. I try and resist that and choose to look away from what went wrong in the ministry, and look VERY closely at what MASSIVE went right. I have a right to do that, and there is a NEED for you and the others here to have a strong voice of opposition. That is why you are in my face. I am seriously rocking your boat on the absent Christ. If I was not hot on the truth, you'd just laugh me off, but you can’t. Suggestion: Be like Gamaliel and say to yourself when I make a strong point, that if I am off the will of God, my words will die without you having to do anything to oppose them. But if I am speaking truth, then there is nothing you can do, nor should want to do, to oppose it. Christ is not absent, "he" is in me. Another way of putting that is: holy spirit is in me. It is not Jesus, the flesh man, in me. That man is gone, absent, hidden by God. If and when God wants him present here in the flesh realm, personally, that will happen. */*/*/* I only have so much time and energy, and I choose to look away from the things that went wrong. WHY? Too many things went right. Two of those many right things were we that WERE taught the answers to my two moderately difficult questions, and the answers are really cool. Summary: Christ Jesus is seated at the right hand of God and all the angels under his feet and command. He and the Father don't miss a shred of what goes on here, so they both are present in that sense. But when we walk in the flesh, we are oblivious to their spiritual presence. If you (speaking rhetorically) want Christ the man-mediator to be "present" spiritually, then you got to be right with God and in fellowship.... otherwise God and Christ are absent for you... but lovingly watching for when you want to be in fellowship. Christ Jesus, the flesh man is absent, but it's only temporary. Meanwhile..... Oops! I almost gave away the answer to one of the moderately difficult questions. T-Bone, I just thought I’d give you all the energy I had left tonight and answer one of your questions or challenges. I won’t have time or energy to even READ the other responses here, so please vouch for me that at least I spent the time and answered you one. I wonder if any of the others are working on my two moderately difficult questions, or if they are just attacking me for not dealing with attacks on me, over and over. I hope they can focus on the MANY more points I made, besides the two moderately difficult questions, a few pages above on the absent Christ. I still have more material on this topic, but I'll wait and let everyone have a chance to discuss the many details I already posted above.... or have a chance to attack me not caring for the right things.

I have a strong feeling, from that response above and many others, that you will NOT understand the answer. Don't get your hopes up.

Nathan_Jr, I'll give you a hint. Read carefully and study Romans chapters 4 thru 8 in the KJV. Find the New English Bible and read that version also. This will point you in the direction of understanding the absent Paradise.

I told you that I want the others to have a chance at answering the questions. Wait a few days.

I know the answers, because we were taught them. They are not rhetorical. God had good reasons for doing what He did in Acts 1:9 and in Genesis. I think someone will remember the answers, or at least try to fighre them out. Probably someone who listened well, long ago. Nathan_Jr, why is it you never asked the same questions that I did? Were you never curious why Jesus is absent, hidden, and hard to meet at Starbucks? (deleted a poorly written sentence here)

I want to discuss what we were taught about the absent Christ, and what the Bible says about it. I think this is a needed subject, and VPW's old-man nature has already been discussed ad infinitum. What I brought up so far, like my two moderately difficult questions, have not gotten nearly the posting or thought. I think you are trying to change the subject, because you can't answer my two moderately difficult questions. Did I guess right?