Mike

Spiritual binoculars. How can God see us when He's way up there also? So, it sounds like you are getting closer to the question I asked you. Are you implying that an absent Christ cannot see us from the spiritual realm, and has to return with his personal presence to get an good view? Is this a Near Sighted Jesus theory you are harboring?

It sounds to me like you went into the Corps way too early, and had not "made it your own" first.

Was Jesus a snake oil salesman in his teachings on believing?

Where?

NO!!! You missed the key ingredients: CHRIST present spiritually within a believer walking in renewed mind love. The letters of Paul (+ whole Bible) mixed with believing, with Christ present within as holy spirit, and walking in renewed mind love replace the ascended Nazarene.

My teacher, and then he taught why it is good that he is absent. I had written:"So what's the big deal about him being absent for a while? He can still see what is goinng on here from his right hand seat. At least Stephen thought so." You side-stepped my question, so I will re-word it. So what's the big deal about you believing he has to be non-absent? He can still see what is going on here from his right hand seat, RIGHT? Stephen saw the absent Christ standing way out there at God's right hand, and that was comforting to him.

Why? I think they are very important to see if Jesus was similarly obsessed, and if not, how he handled them. You need to convince me. See if you can counter my argument with more than the brush off with one word, irrelevant.

You wrote: “...Was wierwille a double agent?... Wow! That is a good question! I have often marveled and wondered at how good an agent for God I have been in the past 50 years. I know the days I doubted. I know the weeks I was weak. I know the years I yearned to be stronger against doubt, fear, and temptation. It blows my mind, the grace and mercy of God on my life, when I was out of fellowship. I remember days when I was a twig leader, out of fellowship over something, and would pray to God that He wouldn’t let anyone come to my twig later that night. Then some people would come anyway, and maybe one would have a need, and HOLY MACKERAL, I was able to get back in fellowship and actually help them. This kind of thing happened way more than once, me being in left field for a day, or even a week, … there were even a couple of bad years in there too…. Oh the Romans 7 wretch that I am! Who shall rescue me from this great dilemma??!! I trust I am not being a double agent now…. But the day is long and the flesh is weak. Please pray for me, especally if you don’t have any sin in your life. I hate being a double agent. In fact, it has been God’s great grace and mercy on those times I was out of fellowship that got me slowly interested, more and more every year, to lock in to that Christ forming in my soul, and spend less and less time out of fellowship. I love how God is more interested in my successes than my failures. But VPW's life is not available for me to see in detail and in depth like I can see my own rotten old-man heart. I can plainly see his successes, but his failures are hard to see, unless there are a bunch of wierwille-sin conscious people yelling at me. How do you handle your rotten old-man heart?

Thanks. I did not even notice the AD you included in that combo. Never heard of anyone using that combo before. The Anno Domini, I think means "Year under the watchful eye of our absent Lord.

First you tell me what you don't like about Jesus' statement and me quoting it, AND what you don't like about what he said about believing, and then I'll think about telling you about the success side of my life, and therefore risk you (or others) calling me a liar. What if I said I raised someone from the dead? How would you handle that? Let's just cut to the chase, Twinky, why would you ask me that question? To discredit me, to discredit VPW, to discredit Jesus? Convince me that you really want to hear what successes I have had with PFAL teaching me the Word. How many aces up your sleeve do you have, canned raps, to reject ANYTHING I say in answering your question. Put another way, what kind of answer FROM ME would get you to consider the truth in the verse I quoted, "...and greater works because I go on leave of absence to my Father." (my paraphrase) Convince me that was a sincere question to me from a good heart and a love of the Word of God.

He's invisible, hidden, absent ONLY to us in the physical world. I'm sure God can see him, next to him, in the spiritual world.

That invisible rhymes with hidden! Sort of... in the original languages.... "That's the paradox... why God and Jesus protects and saves in some cases, heals in some cases, and in other cases, does not? " Yes, I noticed that often. It's that pesky little law of believing that gets in the way.

No, I am not nearly as thorough. I missed that. Can you link me. I was in the middle of reading that thread and got distracted by other threads happening.

Paul said the Lord is at hand (in us) in Plp.

Yeah, I was thinking similarly when we sin that he's already been to court once to advocate that we are not guilty, and he paid the fine. Next time we're out of fellowship, God remembers that first action of our defense lawyer. Ditto for blessings, as you noted, which are also a done deal. So what's the big deal about him being absent for a while? He can still see what is goinng on here from his right hand seat. At least Stephen thought so.

LoL When on campus, like in the cafeteria, I have a few times tested the crowd in line for coffee with saying "Anno Domini" loud enough to be heard in a sentence.

Yes, I agree. I thought they could not understand the language of the voice, but Paul did. He was being addressed: "Paul, Paul, why...." so naturally he'd turn and try to see who was calling him.

No, I think it is where the devil offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world. In THIS world the devil has a lot more power than churchianity lets on. We were born behind enemy lines, and God has to wait for believing to "invite" Him into the devil's turf. There's more to this, but knowing the the devil is the god of this world is a big key to the scriptures. Temporarily, in Job, it looks like the devil has more power than God, but God gets around that. You can't beat foreknowledge.

Don't you really mean to write 33 anno Domini, 33 A.D. ? Late Edit: I had written: "First, though, please give me that timing with some more detail. You [Mark S.] wrote: '...Saul was blinded before he tried to have more followers of Jesus Christ murdered.'" "That's the part I always saw as the devil being right there, on the Road to Damascus prepping Saul for his plan when he got there, and BOOM! The devil's plan was interrupted, and he was aware of what was happening! Saul was his main man, you know. This was his high priority in the spiritual war. Seeing and hearing a conversation like the others there, he freaks and tries to kill Saul. Anything but allow Saul talk to the Savior."

Ok. I did. Now can you answer my quick question? Is it necessary for Jesus Christ to be present to bless us ? or equivalently: Would being absent mean that Jesus Christ cannot bless us? By "bless" I mean a catch-all for all the scripture depicts him doing.

"What about all those scrolls of the Septuagint that Paul was so adamant Timothy retrieve? Those were Old Testament scrolls. Paul taught from those scriptures. Any time "scripture" is mentioned in any epistles the meaning is individual and collected writings that would eventually be known as the Hebrew Bible. Is the Hebrew Bible the word?" Best I know, Jesus quoted from the Septuagint, so that is important. Paul quoted from the OT, and his attitude clearly was that it was the Word of God. Do I win a new car if I get the answer right? Tick tock tick tock..BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Yes! Oh, no! Is Hebrew a trick word here? I'm ok with waiting for what the judges say. */*/*/* Now can you tell me why you are so sure of the data you wrote and I quoted above? I'll take that over a new car. I can't afford the taxes.

Don't you remember that a cloud, in Acts 1, actually HID the ascending Jesus from their sight. He didn't just get smaller and smaller, and hazier and hazier. They could still see him well and were getting stiff necks in the process! Then zip, into a cloud, and GONE! Absent! Ohhhhhh Noooooooooooo! This is terrible! Ohh, but SUDDEN COMFORT ! Two angels PROMISE he's coming back! Meanwhile you apostles got work to do, so stop gazing into heaven. (my paraphrase) Has anyone noticed how many times the word "heaven "is in there? 9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Kinda interesting. Is this in the hated wierwille curricula? This is my solo research, like the canon.

Acts 26:13-20 13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. 14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18 To open their eyes, ... Again it says the others saw the light. But they didn't get blinded. I think they didn't speak the language Paul heard. Did I remember that right? It also mentioned that the others had fear, in the earlier 2nd Acts passage, above. Just thinking out loud.

Acts 22:19-11 9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me. 10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do. 11 And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus. */*/*/*/* That's a lot of light there.

I just did. I didn't see any "idiom of permission" there at all? Is there one in the other two do you think? Don't go away; I'll be right back.