Mike

I found my thick paper folder of canon fodder from the 1970s. Over half of it was typed out, so I was able to do a good OCR scan. I'm remembering the story better, how events transpired. The original idea was a hand-written letter I sent to Walter, out of the blue. Chris Gee had given me the idea of searching within the Bible for canon insights, which is a revolutionary idea, and doubtful that academic Western Christianity has pursued it much. Walter wrote me back and said he liked it, so I felt inspired to type it up in better form than the original letter. That second typed paper I wrote circa 1973 I found and digitized. I'm now proofreading and editing after the OCR stage. Soon to post.

I was thinking of the kind of condescension God does on the Condiscencio figure of speech. THAT is a good condescension, and I was trying to imitate that, minus the boss part. Have any suggestions how I can demonstrate non-bossiness, yet still maintain that this package is from God in a way that is 2,000 years unique?

Oops! I already see some mistakes I made in the coloring. Sorry, I was in a rush. Good thing this is only a beta presentation to Nathan_Jr's invitation to me that started this thread. LATE EDIT - I was able to fix most of the mistakes, but not very seamlessly.

No, there are actually several reasons that I am so condescending. But I am trying to NOT sound like the negative kind of condescending. I admit I may have had that negative tone in my previous response, so please let me try again. Those several reasons are too complicated to discus now, but for THIS situation of my trying to be beneficially condescending, please let me try. I didn’t mean that I saw people who didn’t ever see the 1968 film class as inferiors to me. It may have sounded that way. What I meant was that they should be given a pass (by me) on certain things, BECAUSE they didn’t have nearly the same HI QUALITY “ministry experience” that I had. I feel it a duty, that since I was blessed so big, I have a big responsibility to PASS IT ON. */*/*/*/* The Craig Clone Class (I forget the name) was conceived under extremely trying circumstances for TWI, trying for both for most people in, and almost all people out. That chaos started in 1986, and went up and down in all sorts of ways. Then in 1995 the film class was withdrawn, and the new class was substituted. */*/*/* I see the 1942 promise as a completed project, where God did the teaching over 42.5 years to VPW and VPW taught us. The finished form of this intervention by God was the film class and the collateral readings that came with the class. These were the targets, and the end of his life and last recorded teaching, that he pointed to and said TWICE that we should master them. Ok, those are the originals of my only rule for faith and practice… roughly speaking. They are my Postulates. */*/*/* Now, a practice we enjoyed in TWI is that we were strongly encouraged to re-teach the same class materials to others by OURSELVES in our twigs. This is what I was taught in twig leaders meetings. I’ll call these encouraged re-teachings we did Secondary Pfal Teachings, or SPTs for short. These SPT attempts were usually pretty good and right on with the class and collaterals. It was estimated in twig leaders meetings that it would take about 2 years to teach the whole class in a home fellowship live. In those days we met 2 and 3 times per week. Before the film class was made, VPW had Mal George and others SPT teaching the PFAL class themselves in locations far from HQ. In San Diego, before the meltdown, the Corps put together a whole PFAL class that was team taught. All these SPT re-teachings of the class were done a very supportive atmosphere of cooperation and love. LOTS of volunteers worked these things many hours per week per year. You didn’t have to be Corps to chip in and help in all sorts of ways. */*/*/*/* Ok, back to my story. In 1986 that very supportive atmosphere of cooperation and love ENDED for many people and many places. Yet, I have to give Craig credit for keeping the original class running as far as he did. I’m sure that was tough. But he ran out of gas sometime before 1995. Ok, the originals then in mothballs. A class that Craig put together UNDER DURESS replaced what God had put together with VPW. This was NOT in the category of the cheerfully produced SPTs, put together in previous decades. So, let’s get this straight. In 1995, the 1968 class inspired by God’s direct intervention is replaced by a secondary re-teaching produced under duress. The teacher of the class after 1995 was handicapped, and he didn’t have a promise like the one that came in 1942 that VPW had. This class did not fill the bill, so they de-Craig-ed it by replacing his video with a team of teachers… I think. I got lots of this data from a very noisy signal. From better data, I heard that this second replacement for the film class was better. I sat in on Session One for the newest replacement for foundational class, PFAL-T, several weeks ago, and it looked pretty good. I’m still sold on the originals, but the 2 hours I saw kept my attention, and seemed to have the detail well covered. I was just SO lucky to have had a rich exposure to the originals. From my close examination and experience with PFAL’68 I am convinced its production was supervised by God. This means I see it as a UNIQUE source of benefits for me and others. I was very lucky to have had much of my exposure to the originals unsupervised, and the supervision I did get was very wise and helpful. It was wonderful and positive all the way up to early 1984ish times, and then things got wobbley. Not long after that, the frequent running of classes totally ended. The good I saw when the originals were in dense circulation was SO GOOD, that I feel for those who missed it. I feel they were unlucky where I was lucky. Fortunately for me also, there were lots of my friends who were able to dodge the bullets and experience and remember the good that worked well. The wave of PFAL’68 grads coming back to PFAL is growing and maturing. I will be searching for better ways to offer the great good I enjoy, without sounding negatively condescending.

Here is the "ababababa" structure in readable form. This is STILL just a rough representation, and not yet fine tuned. Colored red are "b" - the adversary's attacks on the integrity of the Word. Colored blue are "a" - Timothy's responsibilities to uphold the integrity of the Word. 2 Timothy KJV – COLOR Canon 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus, 2 To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord. 3 I thank God, whom I serve from my forefathers with pure conscience, that without ceasing I have remembrance of thee in my prayers night and day; 4 Greatly desiring to see thee, being mindful of thy tears, that I may be filled with joy; 5 When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also. 6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands. 7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. 12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. 13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us. 15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes. 16 The Lord give mercy unto the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain: 17 But, when he was in Rome, he sought me out very diligently, and found me. 18 The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well. Chap 2 1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. 4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. 5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully. 6 The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits. 7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: 9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound. 10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. Chap 3 1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. 10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. Chap 4 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. 9 Do thy diligence to come shortly unto me: 10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia. 11 Only Luke is with me. Take Mark, and bring him with thee: for he is profitable to me for the ministry. 12 And Tychicus have I sent to Ephesus. 13 The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments. 14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works: 15 Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words. 16 At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge. 17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. 18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. 19 Salute Prisca and Aquila, and the household of Onesiphorus. 20 Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick. 21 Do thy diligence to come before winter. Eubulus greeteth thee, and Pudens, and Linus, and Claudia, and all the brethren. 22 The Lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit. Grace be with you. Amen. The second epistle unto Timotheus, ordained the first bishop of the church of the Ephesians, was written from Rome, when Paul was brought before Nero the second time.

I understand. I was only trying to show the gross structure there. I will post a readable one next.

Here is the "ababababa" structure I saw in a graphic display. This is just a rough representation, and not yet fine tuned. Colored red are "b" - the adversary's attacks on the integrity of the Word. Colored blue are "a" - Timothy's responsibilities to uphold the integrity of the Word. Don't try to read this. A readable form is posted below. This is only to show an overview at a glance.

In that structure of Bullinger's I think the word "Charges" corresponds nicely with what I was calling "a" and I described it as Timothy's responsibilities to uphold the integrity of the Word. But Bullinger missed entirely what I called "b" - the adversary's attacks on the integrity of the word. BTW, the word "integrity" has the connotation "sum total" or "none of the good stuff missing." Kinda sounds like CANON, doesn't it?

How many times does it say Christ is currently HIDDEN or NOT VISIBLE to the 5-senses. Acts Chapter One counts as #1 Hebrews has one, that Oldiesman? found, so count #2

How? Only two logically possible methods: via five-senses, and via spirit. I know nothing about languages, except my failed attempts to learn Latin as a child, and French as a teenager. Yet, I can push myself to maximally operate my 5-senses approaches to include as much of the old languages as possible, both the ancient scripture fragments, and the modern Critical Greek texts from 1550 A.D. and later. I can work lexicons, and concordances, and inter-linears to a decent extent. I can also consult with others who have learned more. I can also pray to God to guide my 5-senses efforts by His spirit within me, and by the texts and teachers that He brings across my path. If all that fails, and I very much NEED a breakthrough, because my resources are failing, then He might go so far as to give me a revelation to get over the hump. IT CAN HAPPEN !!! I think that same thing happened for VPW, and can happen for you. In that thread on "Light Began To Dawn" VPW goes through this same kind of explanation that I just gave. God is no respecter of persons. He lets His rain fall on just and the unjust alike. God is good; we are not. God is willing to take the MOST UNLIKELY of humans and help them to help others. He helped young Solomon help others in phenomenal ways. PLUS, while He was helping young Solomon help others, God had complete foreknowledge of what a nasty, unworthy character old Solomon was going to be. I marvel at God's forgiveness of future sins. Why doesn't anyone talk about those things here?

Ok, let me get 2 questions straight. Did I hear you right about 4 hours ago: That you no longer believe in a just, good God? YET, you have a definitive set of posts that establish the Trinity? That’s an odd combination, so I wanted to ask if I heard you right. Four hours ago you wrote: “If I croak tonight – it would be sad cuz I’m only on season 3 of The West Wing. But if there is a higher power…if this is a moral universe…I hope things ultimately work out for all involved…whatever that means.” I could tell that you were using the standard academia techniques to tear down the existence of God’s Word in the NT Canon thread. I had seen them before, and could tell those techniques were in existence to suck out all believing in Divine Inspiration of the Bible. This is the reason you did not want to look at my 10 year collection of Bible verses on the Canon over on that thread. They would have gone contrary to your purposes: to logically disprove the integrity of God’s written Word, and then God. */*/*/*/* Now here in the Absent Christ thread you want to advocate the Trinity, and THAT would make the absent Christ really stupid. Of course, if the Trinity were “true” then Jesus would have an omnipresence that God has, and the idea of absent, or sent away, wouldn’t make sense. I get it. I just wasn’t sure if I heard you right, so I thought I’d ask. */*/*/*/* As for me switching from the canon thread and the absence thread, I pretty much finished my study of JCNG about a year before the first edition came out. I got a bunch of new items from that book, but I also had a few that were not in it, and I showed you one. Feel free to answer my "Who fathered Jesus?" in brief form here. As for learning from your Trinity exposition, I have no desire or time. That topic I need not learn anything. But the canon and the absent Christ are beta testing grounds for me, and I am learning a lot here. I have hardly even begun to show my stuff in the canon thread; a deluge of verses. The absent Christ thread is teaching me what the big complaint is with VPW's teaching the absent Christ in the class, and the Word taking the place of the absent Christ. I loved how clear those PFAL teachings were, and my KJV followups went fine for me. What I don't understand is how all you folks missed it. I am learning.

Someone just posted about how we don't have much info on this. Well with a body that can pass through walls, it seems obvious the atoms respect him. What about temperature? Might he need a blanket Is there temperature in heaven? I have not had time to search the Word on these things, but my hunch is there isn't any info for us there. Why? Does this figure into helping us find out if the phrase "absent Chrst" is useful or hurtful?

You don't follow my logic at all. Jesus is finished, seated at the right hand of God, they are a team, God knows all that goes on, and tells Jesus all he needs to know and what to do from his seated position, and much more. God has all sorts of ways to get a message thru. Maybe he asks Jesus to make a phone call to get a job done. It may have video. No misrepresentation. No loss of data. Nothing lacking in John's perception of Jesus, because it is a high quality phone/video call. It's better than that. It beats all A.I. simulation of ambiance and presence. The MESSAGE gets through perfectly. God and Jesus a team that is perfectly efficient.

H G Wells invisibility - footprints in the snow Jesus Christ's invisibility - absence of visible body

The nuns taught me it meant Year of our Lord, or the Lord's Year.

Right now this is NOT a moral universe. Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. It's a broken universe, the Second Heaven and Earth, and it is doomed to destruction. But be comforted, there is a Third Heaven and Earth coming with that righteous judge.

Maybe I poorly wrote what you are responding to. I meant the opposite. That is why I continue to answer my best your questions. My perceptions are that it is OK to answer you, and spend quality time with you. Help me edit (down here) what I said that made you feel that way. It was not my intention. My intention was to say something like "Ok, I like the way this is going, so let's continue." Put yourself in my shoes. Have you ever had several people throwing eggs at you simultaneously?

Hopefully I made it clear I wasn't talking about illegitimate births, but the donning of an illegitimate robe of "The challenger." */*/*/*/* As to rising to the legitimate challenge, this forum is not the place to do it. The signs, miracles, and wonders in my life are not there to help me win credibility here. Let's be honest and acknowledge that. OK? You can't goad me to prove myself by saying "That's what they always do when pressed for their 'greater works,'" And it is disingenuous of you to assure me that you wont dump a lot of garbage all over my answer. LoL! You'll just step back and let everyone else do that for you. Did you honestly think that you were offering me that? LoL Reminds me of Connie Chung saying "Just between us..." to Newt's aging mother on National TV.

I am sincerely sorry for you. If it is ANY consolation to you, please consider this. If this were a military operation in war, and corrupt generals, and inept officers sent you home crippled and your friends dead, then when the facts of your case and heart boiled up to the surface for all to see, and all those responsible were fully exposed, then all their rewards would belong to you, if a righteous judge ruled over your case. I can assure you that is only part of the story... so far. The righteous judge is on his way to end his absence.

Oops! I made a mistake there in my math. Anno Domini means "[Year under the watchful eye of our absent Lord] minus 33. That's the correction factor for the Ascension happening at year 33, and Jesus being born at year 0 BC. */*/* Now, we got to factor in the corrections for 33 --> 30. and 0 --> 3 BC, and that the year zero doesn't exits. Then the correction for the Ascension-Sept.11 delta.

There is a reason for that. You are distracted by things OTHER THAN his content. put another way: You are distracted by things other than HIS CONTENT.

The "far away" is a meaning more literally "the spiritual realm" which is far away from a natural man's mind to comprehend.... and similarly our old-man natures.

It is the best answer I have right now, with my present perceptions of what you CAN understand and/or WANT to understand. Those perceptions could be wrong. Do you feel anything is missing from that "final" answer?

I've noticed that no matter what answer a wierwille fan has to that legitimate challenge, it will be rejected here, SOMEHOW. That makes it a legitimate challenge from an illegitimate challenger.