Mike

A most extremely poor similarity. Your son did not commit high treason against you, and then "adopt" himself into an evil family, give them the inheritance you gave him, and be taken captive, and is now behind enemy lines. This did happen to Adam.

I think you slipped a gear here. Jesus sobbingly had no spirit all his childhood and early manhood. I think maybe you merged these cousins in your mind.

Baloney!

Well I finally got overloaded this morning, and am way behind in responding. I'm answering this one last post, and then taking a break and enjoying the rare rain that is coming here in an hour. */*/*/*/* God CANNOT lie, because He limits Himself to always speak true. God CANNOT really speak to flesh, because He limits Himself this way for our benefit. God limits Himself in this communication thing. You seem to want to completely miss this. God chose to limit Himself for our protection. God had foreknowledge that this limitation would not diminish His sovereignty, and even though limited

You just failed to deeply learn these things, probably due to Corps distractions.

A few late edits: Remember that "our" spirit is something that GOD gave to us. I think you are forgetting that in your leap to say "our" spirit is bigger than God. We could say "the spirit interface God gave us" instead of "our spirit" to see that it does NOT have more power than God. REMEMBER that it is FROM God.

Not trash. Yes speculation. As I said above it is a wild guess just to get the brainstorming started. I already see flaws in it. I have never worked this topic in detail. I am learning some of this as I go. Why don't YOU try to brainstorm a better explanation? How do YOU explain that flaming sword, and the need to get spirit in the OT, and the fulfillment of that need in the NT.

So, once again, God limits Himself for a purpose. The purpose is to protect people from the adversary and evil spirits. Maybe there is a password built into the gift of pneuma hagion that ONLY God knows. That would enable him to talk to us, but not let the devil use the same access without the password. This is just a WILD GUESS. Let's brainstorm this idea to see if we can come up with a better one. Until, then this password ANALOGY is just a start.

Your Way Corps slip is showing.

No. I don't draw that conclusion. We don't have much info on spirit and how it works. Even if we did have the info, do we have the minds that can understand it? Not usually. All we know is that people needed spirit, and Jesus knew it, so he made spirit more easily and more permanently available. God limits Himself in various ways. We don't have the details of why and how... yet. But we do have the MANY scriptures that show spirit was very necessary, and to be sought eagerly.

This Great Principle comes from many places, and this is just one. The proof comes by building the scope of all these kinds of passages. Elisha asked for twice the spirit that Elijah had. My best understanding of this is that he asked for training of his mind to be able to hear twice as good. (hope I didn't mix up Elisha and Elijah) I explained some of this in the post you responded to, where I wrote: "The content of Numbers 12 has some more points that illustrate the principle that God can't REALLY talk to us with out us having spirit. Here we see the difference between Moses and the others. He was more meek and had more time than them to learn how to REALLY hear from God. We can see the others who had spirit, but not the meekness and the training Moses had with that spirit. They still had the communications block because it takes a willing and trained mind, as well as spirit, to get around the communications block."

BTW, this is NOT derailing of me to talk about Numbers 11 and 12, and the big communications block, where God can’t REALLY talk to people who don’t have spirit. Part of those biological protections against spirit possession I see are bound up in the flaming sword that blocked Adam and Eve from the tree of life. When Adam sinned he transferred his trust and ruler-ship to the serpent. Had they eaten of the tree of life after sinning that would have kept them in the devil’s kingdom forever. This sounds a lot like the same thing as getting born again of the wrong seed. Genesis 3: 21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

No. It is who the idolators love to hate. Usually, idols are loved more than God. With an anti-idol the love is in pumping up the hate. It could also be called a hate idol. It could be likened to a voodoo doll.

After thinking a lot about Numbers 11 lately, I decided to read it in the NIV just for fun. WoW! I had no idea that Numbers 12 came after Numbers 11 ! LoL The content of Numbers 12 has some more points that illustrate the principle that God can't REALLY talk to us with out us having spirit. Here we see the difference between Moses and the others. He was more meek and had more time than them to learn how to REALLY hear from God. We can see the others who had spirit, but not the meekness and the training Moses had with that spirit. They still had the communications block because it takes a willing and trained mind, as well as spirit, to get around the communications block. */*/*/* Miriam and Aaron began to talk against Moses because of his Cudange wife, for he had married a Cudange. 2 “Has the Lord spoken only through Moses?” they asked. “Hasn’t he also spoken through us?” And the Lord heard this. 3 (Now Moses was a very humble man, more humble than anyone else on the face of the earth.) 4 At once the Lord said to Moses, Aaron and Miriam, “Come out to the tent of meeting, all three of you.” So the three of them went out. 5 Then the Lord came down in a pillar of cloud; he stood at the entrance to the tent and summoned Aaron and Miriam. When the two of them stepped forward, 6 he said, “Listen to my words: “When there is a prophet among you, I, the Lord, reveal myself to them in visions, I speak to them in dreams. 7 But this is not true of my servant Moses; he is faithful in all my house. 8 With him I speak face to face, clearly and not in riddles; he sees the form of the Lord. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?” 9 The anger of the Lord burned against them, and he left them.

#1 I am not a troll. #2 What I post is STRONGLY against the thinking of the most active posters here. #3 What I post is SO damning of the majority opinion that it disrupts their thinking. #4 The active posters are outraged at my defiance of their anti-idol. #5 The active posters have no solid ground to stand on, so they call me a troll, and resort to pulling out all their old nasty Way Corps skills of melting faces and trying to belittle defiant thinkers.

I often like to think of what life was like for Jesus, when he was growing up. There is SO much comfort in knowing that he went through all the trials we go through. That would include being without spirit, for 30 years, and TOTALLY cut off from really talking with God. Oh, sure, he could pray but he couldn't hear anything back, JUST LIKE it was for us before we got spirit. It wasn't a full, two-way conversation of like minds. So, just like us with no spirit and unable to have any kind of REAL conversation with God, Jesus had to imagine it via the written Word and prayer. It seemed to work well for him during those years, because when he finally did get spirit, he was ready for it. We can all learn from his example, and be thankful that we are no longer in that spiritless state where God can't really talk to us. Sometimes we get tired or confused in our minds (like possibly grieving the spirit) and it's hard again to hear that still small voice. Great comfort, again, can come from Jesus' example. Via the written Word and prayer we can to re-establish rich, sustained fellowship, and the opportunity to hear our Father's comforting, still, small voice.

Numbers 11 24 And Moses went out, and told the people the words of the Lord, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people, and set them round about the tabernacle. 25 And the Lord came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease. 26 But there remained two of the men in the camp, the name of the one was Eldad, and the name of the other Medad: and the spirit rested upon them; and they were of them that were written, but went not out unto the tabernacle: and they prophesied in the camp. 27 And there ran a young man, and told Moses, and said, Eldad and Medad do prophesy in the camp. 28 And Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of Moses, one of his young men, answered and said, My lord Moses, forbid them. 29 And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord's people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!

Sorry, but that is not my goal at all. I said pretty much all I know on this topic.

I think the best understanding of that principle is "Spirit can only REALLY TALK to spirit." It is similar to how we can only REALLY say Jesus is lord but by holy spirit. For spirit to attempt to talk to flesh, the process is crude, brief, cumbersome, and extremely inefficient. I liken it to how well we can communicate with our pet dogs and cats. A little crude, brief, cumbersome, and extremely inefficient communication can happen there, but no where near how we REALLY COMMUNICATE with another knowledgeable human being.

Interesting idea: inserted wedge. Similar to another analogy I heard before of an inserted tube. I think it was God who knew what the devil was planning, and Gen. 3:15 he lets a little of his plan out of the bag, not to say any of the mystery was there. It is obvious to me the devil would want and look for a way to have easy access to humans that he could use for his plans. God knew in Genesis that this "wedge" or "tube" would be a counterfeit of God's seed in us, and He called it that, that the seed of the woman would crush the seed of the serpent. I am surprised that you and someone else asked how does a human have lots of close fellowship with the adversary. Think about it a little. Same thing for your next question on goals and buttons. You are asking me what should be obvious to you. As for biological protections, I can't remember where I picked that up, but it seems pretty obvious to me that God would want to protect innocent people from EASILY getting possessed. If you have ever watched a person descend this way, it is a long process. You just don't get possessed that easily. Lots of us once thought that way, but I finally realized that OPPRESSION is what the adversary inflicts on us OFTEN. But it takes a while for possession to happen. Hardly anyone ever thinks about oppression, especially after The Exorcist movie came out.

I think you are on the right track here to answering Oakspear's question. It looks to me that the serpent's seed is counterfeit, and only resembles what God was planning. My answer to Oakspear is that with lots of close fellowshipping with the adversary, a human's mind-goals and buttons and triggers become well known to the adversary. With such detailed info the adversary can possess the man's mind and muscles to do exactly what is desired, and whenever it is wanted. It is a breakdown of all the biological protections against possession that God built into our DNA.

For years Oakspear had a question here: How come the devil was able to come up with seed for humans before God did? Has anyone worked that question? Is Oakspear still hanging out once in a while here?

Can anyone see how I arrived at this BEFORE hearing the teaching of HOW the Bible interprets itself (80 pages worth in the PFAL book) ? If the Bible were NOT of one Author, then it could not really interpret itself. THAT would make the phrase we're discussing ridiculous, if it were true. Could it be that THIS is the smoking gun for what all the non-upset hoopla is about? Do some want the Bible to be NOT of one Author, but of segmented authorship, and no real, together, consistent "itself" to "do" the interpreting?

...and Glad you asked for help on this. "within the Bible" refers to things like "used before" and "context" and "scripture buildup." It could even include subtle things like asking God in prayer for help. There are lots of things this phrase refers to. Look at those 80 some pages in the PFAL book to refresh your memory for more examples of what "within the Bible means." "within MY OWN resources" refers to my private desire for what I'd like it to say. There are many religious people who think this private desire thing or feeling is God talking to them directly, and that they need not worry much about what the printed words say. There are many examples of private resources, but like I said, I am short on time these days. Sometimes private resources could mean far out non-Christian religious writings that I personally favor. What these resources all have in common is they all are NOT from within the Bible.

Sorry, for my strong language. What word would work for you, in stead of upset? How about "concerned" or "against" or "in opposition to" The ideas that follow that sentence have nothing to do with anyone being really upset emotionally. I meant intellectually upset, in the sense that you had in your lifestyle of thinking at one time, and then you "up set" it and took it out of your lifestyle of thinking.