Mike

I disagree with "all you can 'know' of him" is what I am told by someone else. I know TWI went off the rails at times. I know most of the staff was noble and dedicated; saw that first-hand. The better knowing of the teachings comes from assimilating them and seeing how well they work and fit. That's what I did, to the best of my ability.

I did not see many of his actions. Did you? I heard a lot of his good words, and a few controlled temper tantrums while on staff.

Put yourself in my shoes and see if you can answer that first question all by yourself.

All you can really "know" about his fellowship is what some devilish rumor mill teaches you for years and decades. I don't trust such teaching at all.

That is way too big a question, and that is why I answered it the way I did. I'd have to almost teach you the class to fully answer that. Here is how I answer that for “new” people I am witnessing to: I quote Jesus and say that "God is spirit," and then that we hardly know anything about spirit. But do we need to? Do we need to know WHAT God is like the way we know what a human being is? A human has a body and a brain. Is THAT what you want to know about God? If you got the definitive answer, what would you do with it? Is it idle curiosity? When you get to know a human, after getting past the body and brain, what do you focus on? More of their body and brain, or do you want to know what they SAY and DO? A person’s words and actions will tell you a lot more about them than their relatively trivial body and brain. The important stuff we know about people are NOT about their body and brain, but about their HEART, which can be seen in their actions and words. So, lets jump past the impossible task of getting to know God’s “body and brain” (whatever THAT means) and just focus on His words and actions. THEN we can get some useful knowledge. When Christ returns we can ask for more of what God IS, and if it is useful, He will tell us. Until then lets focus on what He already has told us and get the benefits He wants us to have now.

It seems solid for some Administrations, and implied for others. The bigger question is are "administrations" a rightly-divided, useful man-made construct? Remember that chapters and verses are man-made, but useful, and usually rightly divided.

Ok, I will try. Your question/comment on the 1942 promise being uttered by a devil spirit was something I very seriously considered all through the 1070s. But it was from the large accumulation of FRUIT in my life that I knew I was finally on the right track. Like David and Solomon, I still deeply consider the possibility that many devils were trying to get to him and some may have been successful at times. I consider the possibility that Paul got a nostalgic spirit when he went to Jerusalem against God's orders.

I finally caught up with the backlog that started piling up last night and all day today, except a few of Nathan's questions. Unless, anyone has a burning comment that can't wait, you all can have your William Branham: Seed of the Serpent discussion resume. I sure hope I don't see anything I need to respond to for a little bit.

There are lots of things I am uncomfortable about with the whole TWI thing. I try to deal with them one-by-one and the ones I can understand best are done first. I have heard approximately all your cutting questions, and some of them I generated for myself over the years. I just want to preserve the good, so I am careful, and sometimes slow. If you could calm down a little, maybe we could communicate better.

Yes, that is right. Because I was not in the Corps I am a lot less sure of some of these Corps matters, but from what I have seen on the field, my reaction is to call the Corps by the name "Wierwille's Folly." My mind is not totally set on this, but it need not be. Whenever, I meet someone who is Corps, I try to not hold it against them, and try to think the best of what they do with that training. I have met MANY very fine Way Corps members. And do YOU realize that VPW was often on record about his dissatisfaction with the Corps, and how he'd easily terminate it long before the Wow program?

It is easy and quick to say with the mouth that Jesus is lord. But it can be slow to believe in our heart that God raised Jesus from the dead. The scripture says "in that very day" when it could have said it was immediate. It may have taken a little time for Adam to realize what he did. And Eve's sin was even earlier in the day, so I tend away from that logic.

Sorry. I'll try harder. You might try the same. Did you see how BUSY I was answering many others' questions today?

I only know their training and techniques can be worthy of attack at times. I know nothing of their genuine Christian service while in the Corps, but I imagine it was better than the average minister in their town, because they had a strong leg up on doctrine confusions and counterfeits. I hope their GreaseSpot "service" doesn't further distract them from heavenly rewards for more genuine Christian service they may do in the future.

Please count all the questions I did answer on this thread just today. I want to hear what your count is.

Yes, that is a good point. Possibly due to our old man nature is trained by the world to hear them. Maybe they can't talk directly either, until this kind of world inspired "interface" is installed. Let's brainstorm it.

I am not sure exactly WHEN the spirit died in Adam. Was it immediately after sinning? It could have taken the rest of the day...."in THAT very day..." or until they were banished from the tree of life.

Ohhhh, and no one personally attacks me here? I am not projecting when I wincingly see your anti-idol cult-religion grow to the point that you discolor all that is the Word of God when it comes off the pen of VPW. It is not VPW that I am concerned about; it's YOU and the damage you are doing to yourself and others.

I am glad we can at least agree on God never lying, and that God is light with no darkness in Him at all.

I have heard froim a Corps member that he remembers VPW at one time saying that the 1942 snow was a very strong vision. I know nothing more about this; just wondering if anyone eles heard that.

Whenever my acting gets too close to making your anti-idolatry uncomfortable, and you (or others) have no good looking response, your (and others) fallback is to accuse me of being a troll. I am NOT hiding under the bridge making strange noises, but seriously opposing you right to your face, and all your old Corps superiority techniques come to the surface, but none of them work, so you resort to the standard troll accusation. You (and others) are ACTING like you are still in a Way Corps leadership position and your job is to demean me in ANY way you can; truth be damned.

Since you, OldSkool, are the Attendance Monitor, please make my attendance record reflect how wrong you were.

I think you need to take the original film class again for these answers. I wont waste my time, because I know, and you know, that whatever I said, you wont take in or treat it seriously. If you want me to take you seriously, stop being so childishly silly.

(I am experimenting with formats.) Mike wrote: We don't have much info on spirit and how it works. Even if we did have the info, do we have the minds that can understand it? Not usually. TLC wrote: Agreed. And for supposedly being "experts in the holy spirit" field, the biggest achievement of going through TWI was a great puffing up of what anyone thought they knew about spirit and "how it works." Yes, this did happen at times, but I think some of us got to the point of wanting to help people with this knowledge. I think, in order to build commitment in the Corps, too much stress was put upon Corps superiority. That definitely happened with Corps having a domineering attitude over “empties,” churchianity victims, mere grads, and even non-Corps staff at HQ. TLC wrote: But, seems to me there's an incredible amount of pride that needs (or needed, if any insist on a benefit of doubt) to be flushed out before the door leading to any real answers (aka, truth) in this field even begins to crack open. It was, is, and most likely will remain a "hit or miss" struggle that is never able to paint a clear enough picture to make much (much less "good") sense, especially for anyone deeply indoctrinated in certain religious beliefs... I think that as we seek to be better at helping others, the deeper answers will flow. /*/*/*/*/*/*/* Mike wrote: All we know is that people needed spirit, and Jesus knew it, TLC wrote: Seriously, Mike? You appear to be saying that people had no spirit whatsoever. How in the world then might you explain what is written in Luke 9:55? If you're some expert on spirit, exactly what "pneuma" do you suppose Jesus is referring to in this verse? And yes, I'm not stupid... I am aware that spirit (or pneuma, if you prefer) can and might refer to different "things" (for lack of any better word.) But my question (again) is simply this... What spirit do you suppose is being referred to in Luke 9:55? And why might Jesus refer to it being a "manner of spirit"? Please let me put my amateur hand to this task. Best I understand it, many people in the OT could get spirit upon them, and not just Israel. I do not know if "spirit upon" is available in this administration. I would like to know this, but I have never even heard anyone voice it at all. Yes, I believe all humans are born without the same pneuma hagion we got in the new birth. This is the curse of Adam and all suffer from it. HOWEVER, please don’t ask me about John the Baptist having spirit in the womb. I have no idea what that means… still on the lookout, though. The proper response to seeing in the Scriptures this dire dilemma of people having no holy spirit is the same response Jesus had: compassion and a desire to help those without spirit. Ok, now let’s look at Luke 9:55 I pasted these items in exactly from RHST: Luke 9:39 Usage 8 . . .Io, a pneuma taketh him. . . . Luke 9:42 Usage 8 . . .Jesus rebuked the unclean pneuma . . . . Luke 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them [the balance of verse 55 and verse 56 is omitted to] And they went to another village. This is the fourth verse where the word pneuma, ac- cording to most Greek texts, is omitted. The Aramaic text includes the word “spirit.” 2 Luke 10:20 Usage 8 ...rejoice not, that the pneumata are subject unto you.... Notice that the verses around v.55 have “Usage 8” after the scripture ref. (Usage 8 refers to devil spirits) Notice that v.55 does not have that “Usage 8” after it. That is because, as it says in the entry, the word “spirit” is not in the Greek. However, the word “spirit” IS in the Aramaic. Notice the little “2” for footnote at the end of v.55’s entry. Here is the footnote: 2. According to the author’s discussions with Dr. George M. Lamsa, the Aramaic text reads, “knowing not what temperament ye are of.” That “temperament” means there could be two possible Usage numbers for the Aramaic word, and they are: 3. Meaning soul life The person himself, that which makes man a living being; the natural life common to all mankind. It is also breath life (Luke 23:46; Acts 7:59). All men have “soul life” which is pneuma or spirit, called “the spirit of man,” but not all men have eternal life pneuma, holy spirit. 4. Meaning the individual entity or self Such as myself, yourself, himself; the seat of operation of man’s personal life, often re- ferred to as “heart.” a. The issues that result from the opera- tion of man’s mind such as acts of will, thoughts, desires, emotions I am not at all sure which Usage applies. The Aramaic might even be Usage 8, but I just do not know for sure. That is as far as I can help you with this verse. Also sorry I don’t understand John the Baptist yet.

Thanks, Twinkie. Pawtucket agreed with you on this many years ago. I am definitely not meek to the anti-idol rhetoric here against VPW. I know he had sin, and I see how it damaged some people. I seek to DO SOMETHING about that, and not run away from it. He also helped many, so I am keen on identifying the baby from the bathwater when it comes to doctrine. I think most posters here are deluded by a terrible diet of negatives and anti-idol repetition here. The emotion of hate makes all thought slant away from preserving the good we were given. I am sincere, and I try hard to not derail.

That is a most stupid speculative extrapolation. Hilarious too! If I (or they) wanted to cover up anything in this thread I'd have stayed away from it altogether so that it would die a quick death when you all got bored with it. If you really like that kind of speculation, I suggest you look VERY closely at all the threads that I stay away from. LoL