Mike

You'd regret that bet. The reason I fell into that ministry position is because I had latched onto the inner workings of transistor radios when I was 11, and worked in the Nuclear Structure Laboratory in their Van de Graff accelerator on the SUNY campus of Stony Brook. We had a lot of buttons there. I started in ministry AV work by helping Mark Gluckin with setting up "Pressed Down" concerts before I took the class.

One of the dangers I foresee in me posting directly on penworks thread is me dragging in some other posters, who then disrupt my super civil attempt to debate there, and then the food fight starts. No thanks! I will spare her, and refrain from posting there. She is an super elegant person in my memory, and I want to not disrupt that. That would happen with the the jeering and mocking committee I'd drag in there with me. it would be no good... and even worse if the scatological special effects are thrown in.

I was the AV man everywhere I went in TWI. That was my main function in TWI. The AV man in TWI was similar to the AV man in High School: setting up class audio and video equipment, and pushing the buttons at the right time for the class instructor.

Hey I still need help on this: where can I do some detailed review of Charlene's book? Protocol looks difficult. I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't. On one one hand, posting my comments, and quotes w page numbers on her thread would be in extremely bad taste. That is her Publishing Party thread. It would be bad manners for me to even have a super civil debate there. On the other hand, I do a thread on it, that would look like I'm trying to do battle. I'm not. I don't have that much to say. Then on the third hand....(? legal grammar?) if I post detailed comments scattered here and there, it looks like I am badmouthing her all over town, behind her back. Where would be the best place to talk about the details in "Undertow" ???

I ended up assuming the second question was best to answer, about my empathy for GreaseSpot people, and the TWI hurts life situations that brought them here. Here is how I answered it: I was NOT touting the collaterals at all back then (1987). I was an A.V. man and what mattered to me was the PFAL'68 video. I had privately come to the conclusion that VPW went through some kind of downward spiral, or downward spasm after LCM came in, and after his stroke (date?). I had started tuning out respect and attention towards VPW a few years earlier, when I heard his voice on an SNT around Dec 1982, and could tell he had a stroke. I was also not happy with him for SOME of the Corps, by the time of Ralph's meeting in 1987. The Corps were a problem for me in the early 80s, but the secrecy and strong-arming they did after the 1986 POP was the end of my respect, for what I called by then "Wierwille's Folly." [In the 1986 meltdown, when Corps leadership needed the power the most, it wasn't there.] What I heard there from Ralph sunk my respect for VPW the man, not just his Corps that Summer of '87. For the next 10 years I had some wild adventures. I still thought the 1968 video class video was gold, but that VPW had slipped from his diligence after the filming. I likened it to what happens to some Olympic Gold Winners in the years after reaching their gold pinnacle. I knew that kind of thing happened to Solomon. During that decade of time, 1987 to 1998, I went up and down on my memories and conversations about VPW. I was often thankful for his ministry that made the class, but thought sometime afterwards he went from best to good, and then much lower. During that 10 years I attended all of John Lynn’s meetings. He came once a year after Ralph, until 1998. That was the time I discovered that I had missed a lot that was in the collaterals. So, I can empathize with everyone here in their disappointment with VPW and TWI. I just happened to go through it all earlier, and was then miraculously handed the solution in 1998. I come in peace, and I always did.

Pssst... off the record. Just between you and me. Your readers are being cheated; being robbed of context. Here, you can pass this off to them, and don't tell them where you got it: Do you mean, I have no empathy for my readers because, because I let the text get too long ??? Or do you mean empathy for you and GreaseSpotters? My post to Nathan_Jr yesterday, addresses that issue of empathy.

What ??? Do you mean, I have no empathy for my readers because, because I let the text get too long ??? Or do you mean empathy for you and GreaseSpotters? My post to Nathan_Jr yesterday, addresses that issue of empathy. But I’d like to add this question: could you please indicate the places in my post where you thought it should contain empathy? I was trying to be brief in a lot of sections. Moving fast through a story can look harsher than intended. If you point out the empathy vacuums, maybe I can “fill” them in some way. Here’s what I said on empathy there: I empathize with GreseSpotters, because I saw and felt several previews of GreaseSpot sentiments years before it started. I had private previews of a lot of the “horror movies” signaled the need for the founding of WayDale and GSC. I started grappling with the mission of the Research Department in the later 1970s. In July 1987 Ralph D visited SD and did a 2 day meeting, with several meetings per day. I attended Day 2 for several hours. It was almost identical to everything that goes on today here at GreaseSpot, only it was LIVE, no re-takes, no editing, no protection from shoving and fists in heated discussions !!! I was absolutely sickened when I got my first viewing of the Schoenheit Paper there. Ralph gave me a thick copy. I had heard “all” about it from local loyalist Corps, that its devil spirits would get a reader believing in the Trinity in no time. But at that LIVE GreaseSpot meeting in 1987 I could see that it was almost identical to my in-house twig research on sex in 1980 !!! That made me as bitter as anyone here ! There was more in that post to Nathan_Jr that will pertain to your comments to me here. I include it below. */*/*/*/*/*/* Chockful wrote: Mike is always looking to run down anyone who went thru the Corps as a problem. Not so. I frequently post the opposite, that there was good that came from the Corps program. It certainly also had its faults. I have evolved to the attitude when I meet a Corps person that I am not going to hold that against them one bit at all. But the minute they start demanding respect for having a greater commitment that mine, that I think it was only a percent that went bad in their behavior, not so much in their hearts. I’ll say it again: some of good came out of the Corps as a whole, and a majority of the individuals who went through I am thankful for. But as you went up the power structure, lots of leaders went in lots of directions. I’d love to think that the Corps Nazi behavior I saw was them going through a phase in their life, and that they eventually outgrew it. Heck, they’ve had up to 38 years now. */*/*/*/*/* Chockful wrote: Actually, I don't find it hard t believe. The window washer philosopher is most likely on autism spectrum but without the idiot savante angle. *LoL ! You may have just insulted a sizeable percentage of the read-only audience out there. [ Hi, Mom! ] Oops! Not to say she’s on the spectrum. LoL. But seriously folks, all ad hominems aside, this is a delicate subject. Pop psychologists in the media these days really pump broadening that spectrum, autism for all is their marketing cry,. And the shifting sands of nomenclature might help them in the process. Didn’t they kinda of re-name it Asberger’s Disease or something like that? */*/*/*/*/*/*/* Chockful wrote: He has this delusional view that the creator and initiator of the Corps program somehow was not involved in every aspect of it as are current leaders. ??? I thought I dispended with that DELUSION of yours about me having a delusional view of VPW as perfect and acceptable in every way. Go back and I posted the other day, I understand a prophet lacking honor in his own area and with his own kin, paraphrasing Jesus. Why did he say that? How’s come a genuine prophet (a speaker for God) doesn’t get recognized as a prophet? It is because those people who are closest to him know all his shortcomings. The closer the relationship, the more a person’s sin is seen. There is only one exception to this rule. In looking back on my life, from late 1971 to 1982, my respect grew from zero to great thankfulness for the wonderful package I had received. But when I worked at HQ my respect dips in hindsight. After I left HQ my respect grew again. I’ve been on a roller coaster on this. */*/*/*/*/*/*/* Chockful wrote: No sitting around stuffing your head with PFAL collateral material which amounts to sermon notes by Rhoda for 10 years does not produce anything different in believing than stuffing your head with them for 1 year. (1) Learning anything from the collaterals would mean a lot of time working the keys taught in the Bible. So this sentence totally misrepresents what we were taught. (2) Rhoda has pnemua hagion, the same connection VPW had. Paul, Timothy and Silas all worked on the Thessalonian Epistles. The Bible was a team effort, oftentimes, and similarly for the collaterals. Another error on your part here is you seem to be unaware of the step in the process where the audio transcript was re-worked by VPW and possibly another person. I personally spent hours on this topic interviewing VPW’s editors Karen Martin, J.Fred Wilson, David Craley, and Milford Bowen. I did this with some in the 197os, face-to-face, and in the 2000s by telephone and e-mail. The process of producing the collaterals and the magazine articles was far more intensive than your gross mischaracterization. */*/*/*/*/*/*/* Chockful wrote: You also are judging penworks every single chapter. I know you don't want to accept TWI has had sketchy research since the start. Maybe you're really just struggling with yourself here not intending to be a complete a hole. .I mentioned above, and in other places that I started hearing things about the Research Department that bothered me more and more. My first red flag was in 1978, and I posted on it a week ago. After that I would hear on the weekly SNT tapes an odd remark by VPW to the effect that “… we finally found a manuscript that verifies what I was expecting.” WHAT? That didn’t sound right! What the heck? That don’t sound like research to me?! Then another SNT would come out and he would say “Someday we will find a manuscript that verify what other sections of the Word indicate the original has to say.” Again, I would shake my head and ask myself did I hear that right? I’d rewind it and be astounded that I did hear it right. This happened at least 3 times, maybe more over the years listening to tapes. The corker that came last REALLY surprised me, and it sounded like cheating and nothing else. I was flabbergasted! He said (almost exact quote) “We probably will never find a manuscript for this, but I know from my spiritual perspective that the original has to say…” That one I’ll never forget. I was in one of my low points on my Respect Roller Coaster towards VPW when I heard that one. It was around here that I was looking for the answers back in the hippie culture more than in the collaterals or from the research department. I wrote about the lowest point in my VPW respect in that response to Nathan_Jr. Here is what I said: I was NOT touting the collaterals at all back then. I was an A.V. man and what mattered to me was the PFAL'68 video. I had privately come to the conclusion that VPW went through some kind of downward spiral, or downward spasm after LCM came in. I had started tuning out VPW a few years earlier, when I heard his voice on an SNT around Dec 1982, and could tell he had a stroke. I was also not happy with him for the Corps, by the time of Ralph's meeting in 1987. The Corps were a problem for me in the early 80s, but the secrecy and strongarming they did after the 1986 POP was the end of my respect, for what I called by then "Wierwille's Folly." What I heard there from Ralph sunk my respect for VPW the man, not just his Corps. For the next 10 years I had some wild adventures. I still thought the 1968 video class video was gold, but that VPW had slipped from his diligence after the filming. I likened it to what happens to some Olympic Gold Winners in the years after reaching their gold pinnacle. I knew that kind of thing happened to Solomon. During that decade of time, 1987 to 1998, I went up and down on my memories and conversations about VPW. I was often thankful for his ministry that made the class, but thought sometime afterwards he went from best to good, and then much lower. During that 10 years I attended all of John Lynn’s meetings. He came once a year after Ralph, until 1998. That was the time I discovered that I had missed a lot that was in the collaterals. So, I can empathize with everyone here in their disappointment with VPW and TWI. I just happened to go through it all earlier, and was then miraculously handed the solution in 1998. I come in peace, and I always did.

I've thought along somewhat parallel lines, but in opposite directions. I’ve wondered for 20 years is TWI happy that I face their Goliaths for them? ...thus relieving them of the hassle? For a long time, like 15 and 20 years ago, I was pi$$ed they weren’t sending in reinforcements to help me !! It occurred to me once that there may be WayGB agents who post here under pseudonyms. (DONT look at me!) But soon I realized that the $$$ cost of that was something only the pre1986 ministry could afford. But as several more years ticked by, I came across several reasons for their silence here, as well as their silence in general, and their general insularity. Some of the possible reasons I arrived at were noble reasons, some ignoble. I started slowly empathizing with them. Later still, when I met with local leaders with the big changes starting a few years ago, they confirmed some of my hunches. Contrary to my slow warm-up to TWI people lately, I have ALWAYS empathized with the people here at GreaseSpot, as I do to this day. How you say? ...as you wipe fresh-spit coffee off your keyboard and monitor. I had previews of GreaseSpot sentiments years before it started. I had private previews of a lot of the horror movies that stirred the founding of WayDale and GSC. I had to produce a mini-version, a "pre-Schoenheit Paper" about 6 years before he did. I started grappling with the mission of the Research Department in the later 197os, possibly before Charlene did. (BTW, I haven't gotten that point in my reading.) In July 1987 Ralph D visited SD and did a 2 day meeting, with several meetings per day. I attended Day 2 for several hours. It was almost identical to everything that goes on today here at GreaseSpot, only it was LIVE, no re-takes, no editing, no protection from shoving and fists in heated discussions !!! I was absolutely sickened when I got my first viewing of the Schoenheit Paper there. Ralph gave me a thick copy. I had heard “all” about it from local loyalist Corps, that its devil spirits would get a reader believing in the Trinity in no time. But at that LIVE GreaseSpot meeting in 1967 I could see that it was almost identical to my in-house twig research on sex in 1980 !!! That made me as bitter as anyone here ! I was NOT touting the collaterals at all back then. I was an A.V. man and what mattered to me was the PFAL'68 video. I had privately come to the conclusion that VPW went through some kind of downward spiral, or downward spasm after LCM came in. I had started tuning out VPW a few years earlier, when I heard his voice on an SNT around Dec 1982, and could tell he had a stroke. I was also not happy with him for the Corps, by the time of Ralph's meeting in 1987. The Corps were a problem for me in the early 80s, but the secrecy and strongarming they did after the 1986 POP was the end of my respect, for what I called by then "Wierwille's Folly." What I heard there from Ralph sunk my respect for VPW the man, not just his Corps. For the next 10 years I had some wild adventures. I still thought the 1968 video class video was gold, but that VPW had slipped from his diligence after the filming. I likened it to what happens to some Olympic Gold Winners in the years after reaching their gold pinnacle. I knew that kind of thing happened to Solomon. During that decade of time, 1987 to 1998, I went up and down on my memories and conversations about VPW. I was often thankful for his ministry that made the class, but thought sometime afterwards he went from best to good, and then much lower. During that 10 years I attended all of John Lynn’s meetings. He came once a year after Ralph, until 1998. That was the time I discovered that I had missed a lot that was in the collaterals. So, I can empathize with everyone here in their disappointment with VPW and TWI. I just happened to go through it all earlier, and was then miraculously handed the solution in 1998. I come in peace, and I always did.

NO!!! This is just tough love from me. It will only hurt for a little while, and then you can enjoy basking in the light.

Oh, YEAH !!! I know you are but what am I?

If you don't mind, I prefer the term "mikespeak" over "Mike speak" because I don't want to make it about me.

The newly minted, and still shiny term "anti-idol" that I coined (just LOOK at that LUSTER !) can be used for ANYTHING that is the target of intense hate, where the hater loves to hate it. That means you can have more than one anti-idol in your life, that you love-to-hate, besides VPW.

Ohhh! Do you mean Charlene's book? I actually AM reading it with an open mind. Because it is such an intense nostalgia trip, it is much more fun to read without an attitude of "how can I pummel this?" Eating it up I am, giving her a huge attitude of suspension-of-disbelief. The brief negative reports I've given so far as I read were a result of Charlene forcing a surprise or two into my open mind. My impressions of her from 50 years ago were of a very thoughtful and careful thinker. I was totally NOT expecting her to be an example, and especially such an extreme example, of the "early jump to commitment" phenomenon that I OFTEN saw first-hand (but less intense) in the 1970s. It's a rush-to-judgement propping up an idol, then a shocking fall of that idol, followed by a rush-to-judgement propping up an anti-idol. I opened my mind, and that is what she put in. My mind is still open, because it is still an intense nostalgia mini-series binge watch for me. I was in the same scenes long ago, and remember lots of the characters. */*/*/*/* But your comment to me is mis-directed. I wasn’t talking about my stiff ENG-102 challenge in reading and then fully responding to Charlene’s book, but responding to your posted autism challenges. I am searching through some old college texts right now for that.

I'd like to suggest the very similar sentence: Nathan Jr. is very not forgiving. And several sections in First John can bolster this fun grammar game. First Epistle of John CHAPTER 1 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. CHAPTER 2 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world. 12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. CHAPTER 3 14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not [his] brother abideth in death. 15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. CHAPTER 4 8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also. CHAPTER 5 21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. Anti-idol is merely mikespeak for idol.

WoW! What a CHALLENGING post for me to handle. Not sure i can handle this AT ALL? Mike, use the force! But, I might as well give it the good old college try. Never have I faced such an INSURMOUNTABLE, multi-pronged surrounding of me with logic and reasoning... Thinking back to those good old days of college chummery and chicanery… and giving it the good old college failures….. Mike, use the force! ….Yeah, but I was young then, just sprouting my ASCII wings yet with English Comp 101, and full of energy. I may need to pull a rabbit out of a hat to face THIS challenge, which is more like English 102 Composition. Mike, use the force! Yeah! I’ve been challenged before this terrifyingly, but with the Force… I might be able to handle this with an under 1,000 word ascii assault.

You may get some extra rewards for saving Jesus the time. He'll be pretty busy then.

We'll have to allow an exception for God the Forgiver. He don't change. How much court experience do you have now? ...I mean as a prosecutor?

Gee !! THANKS for the sneak preview of the judge's pronouncements when he Returns. How'd you do that?

I read that long article and the scathing review! Yikes! I thought, that guy is ASKING to be banned, LoL And then I was struck with an Ah Oh! moment. I hope nobody thinks this guy is ME !?! I have to admit, I walked on eggshells for a little bit that day. Honest. I did not like him, even though I vaguely remember see an almost good point here and there.

Sorry, johniam, for any derailing my rumbling locomotive may have inflicted on your train tracks here, and as usual, the entourage I drag with me. I'll try to make it up to by retro-quoting you in your first post here. Oh cool! Does that mean you forgive me for my derailing? But seriously, please allow me to do a little fine tuning on just one sentence. This one: Just because you won't forgive someone for something doesn't mean your whole life and walk with God are totally flawed. Please tell me what you think of a few tiny changes: Just because you won't forgive someone for some things, doesn't mean their whole life and walk with God are totally flawed. What do you think of that?

I had an uncle who was an expert at feigning a case of hard-of-hearing when someone paid him a compliment. He's get a confused look on his face and ask timidly, "Could you repeat that, please?" cupping his hand behind his ear. He got me good once with this trick, and I obliged him 2 or 3 more times, until his son threw up his arms with exaggerated outrage, "DAD! You do that ALL the time!!!" I just wanted to say, I heard you well Twinky, and I am not imitating my uncle. What did you think of the line before the part you liked in my earlier post about a definition for "ministry?" Here it is: An earthly ministry ... is a 5-senses extension of a person's gift ministry from God. I removed the joke in the middle.

Well, thanks, Twinky. I appreciate it and would love to be able to build on it. I'll go look at the rest of the post could be re-worked to communicate more. I think you both have a point about the "extremely blessed” thing. I was thinking of time-wise extreme, as in frequency or numbers. Intense emotional bliss is something I regard as a "pink flag." But being a life long veteran of window cleaning, I never want to rain on anyone's parade. I am not going to question them about it. But super happy people seem to be broadcasting, in addition to enjoying their being happy, seem to be thinking that if they act it out it will last longer. I was extremely blessed my first six or eight months in the ministry, so blessed my smile muscles hurt, but it wore off, as to be expected. I saw this in the 1970s TWI-1 quite often. The Jesus Freaks of the Sixties were way up there, but I think a lot of that was phony. People burn out on bliss. I'm noticing some patterns in those most embittered by finding out VPW was no RC saint. I suspect the bitterness is the flip side of being extremely emotionally happy with VPW in their early days. I saw this swooning for VPW, even from men, in the early days, and the commitment that ensued. At first, I was actually jealous of their commitment to go WoW and to join the Corps. At first, I thought it was a deficiency in me that I was so cautious. I had been somewhat duped by Timothy Leary, then Cleve Backster, the plant conscious man, but my first reactions to their pitch was swallow it all with commitment. So, when I got to VPW it was "stand back" and observe. I just recently noticed an analog to what is happening with me now and associating with TWI-4. In the 1970s there was, for me, a relatively fast progression towards trusting local leadership (none were Corps), but a wait-and-see attitude towards HQ. I could not see HQ operate, like I did the locals. It wasn't until working a year at HQ that I really got a sense that the whole ministry was right-on. I could see how most workers there really cared for the people we were serving on the field. I just still had to continue my slow unemotional progression in commitment, even after working at HQ. It was 10 years of getting blessed by PFAL before I decided to go out Wow. How people could do that or the Corps after one or two years of PFAL under their belt I could never get. Now, looking back reckless. I get this feeling of reckless rush to judgement from Charlene as I read her book. I saw lots of people with that quick, early commitment she had, but not quite as extreme as her account. Even before taking the class she was witnessing and very emotionally committed to joining the Corps, sight-unseen. I see her as an extreme case of the "extremely blessed" with my new, fresh definition of that phrase. Maybe I should have waited on that to post after I finish the book, and after I find an appropriate thread in which do it. In addition to me not wanting to "pollute" her thread announcing the book, I kinda doubt if she would want to lower her standards down to me. She is obviously channeling her disappointment energy in ways other than food-fights with ASCII text. */*/*/*/* I had so many things happen in my life that prepared me for these years, that I have a sense of duty, but not religious duty, where I must pay the church organization with my loyalty and man-hours and dollars. It is a sense that God blessed me via TWI-1 and that I want to thank God by giving to His people and see them blessed like I was by PFAL. In addition to my lucky break of being a far less emotional science geek (which I hated at the time), and with less letdown when VPW's reputation fell, there are other patterns here that I somehow differed from. This next pattern was scarce 20 years ago here, but it has steadily built in becoming visible. I think it is pretty safe to say that a lot of the frequent and more vociferous members here were at one time going ape over the ministry and VPW for the first 10 or 20 years. I’m less sure of this, but a newly emerging pattern I'm seeing is that many here had some of the most devastating of life's calamitous tragedies happen as they were in high commitment mode and deep into ministry life. I see a pattern that most of the disappointment with the law of believing stems from not being able to get answers to really intense prayers. Failing to see the power "when it is needed most "is a theme of disappointment that I first heard VPW predict, and then later saw people experience. My odd life went different. While others around me were getting the normal big blessing of early adulthood, I was the one not getting answers to prayers. A close friend of mine was actually trying to understand my life, and why I was still so gung-ho on PFAL, when I lacked so much that normal people had. He had a great life compared to mine and he marveled at my thankfulness for PFAL. Then finally his first big challenge arrived and clobbered him. He was suddenly very pi$$ed at God and even said so. “But I was believing !!??!!” was his cry. I was thinking, but said not, well if that was real believing, then why did it stop with the clobbering? Real believing is fearless of defeat, even when it happens. Shadrack, Meshack, and Abednego had cultivated genuine believing that flinched not at disaster, like execution by fire. Real believing hangs in there, no matter what. Many jeer here when I mention genuine believing. There is total rejection of the law of believing, yet whenever I ask about Jesus being wrong about it, all I hear is silence. I never hear “mental ascent” here voluntarily offered by posters with bitter comments on believing. When I was a cosmic consciousness pursuing hippie, it was a QUEST to achieve believing, even though we did not use that word. It was assumed that genuine believing was hard to achieve. When I hear someone say “I was believing and it didn’t work” they seem to have forgotten all about mental ascent being a GOOD counterfeit of believing. That means it’s easy to mentally ascent and hard to really believe. I was a loser, in that my mental assent (Yeah I can discipline my mind and get good grades.) did not work. Normal people who used mental ascent got the normal goods of life anyway, while I was always wondering how they did it. Once in the ministry, I figured I must be mentally assenting and the other grads were doing real believing. But then, years later when calamity hit, I could plainly see that their mental ascent was a good counterfeit. Then in recent months I have seen a lot of the personal stories of people here and really feel for the tragedies they experienced deep into ministry life. The old curse in my life, not making it with mental ascent, turned out to be a blessing, in that I understand the law of believing as Jesus taught it pretty well. I have always known that Jesus’ standard was “believe in the heart with no doubt.” I had to dare to believe to take action and come here.

Neither is my agenda. I did hear some of the RNR, but i did not know any of their names except Bob M. My impression is that the RNR thing happened in TWI-3. TWI-3 was very secretive and insular. It was impossible to get info from them. That has changed with TWI-4. The behavior of local field people changed VERY radically, from all the contacts I have had with local field people from 1988 through 2018 approximately. */*/*/*/* I am just now remembering more. I was at a Pentecost Limb meeting while Rosalee was still in. I remember distinctly the frustration on a leader's face as we discussed her. Then it was months lateror maybe a year that I hear Rosalee was out. Can you give me an exact date for the beginning of TWI-4? I want to find the exact date of that Pentecost meeting from my e-mail records, just to get a feel for the timeline here.

Please do let us know as the new TWI-4 filters up to them. I know this is going slower in some areas of the USA than in others. I also know some of the countries around the world are getting the news to lighten up later than us. There is a non-posting reader of GAS who contacted me about one country that seems to be years behind. I am looking for ways to intercede there. Is there still an International Outreach office at HQ. It would really help me if I had names and extensions of some people there and how the departments are organized these days. Is that info pubic anywhere?

No, you just never got the full memo on trusting senses versus not trusting the senses. Either that or you forgot it. We were taught that the 5-senses, the mind, sincerity, and 5-senses are not to be trusted when formulating doctrine, and rightly dividing the word. That is foundational and for babes in the Word. But in the Advanced Class we were given 16 Keys for Walking in the Spirit. I call Key #4 the key leaders like least. Many totally forget it's there in the AC. What I am referring to is the qualifier that everyone forgets. Key #4a is less forgotten. It is "Study the Word Much." It's Key #4b that gets systematically lost in the shuffle. Key #4b is: "What you can know by your 5-senses God expects you to know." All this talk about us being denied sincerity and feelings is baloney. It is only in doctrine discovery that they are in appropriate. Also in the AC we were taught that sometimes God tells us thing that are just like natural 5-senses. Sometimes it is a smell sensation that God uses to give revelation, sometimes sight or sound. This was in the AC teaching that with Christ in us spirit comes Christ's eyes behind our eyes, Christ's ears behind our ears.... and so on. Did you forget all those teachings on the usefulness of the 5-senses?