Mike

Hi Twinky, This is my response to your long post to me on empathy the other day. I trimmed a lot of text out of this, as superfluous for tonight’s response, but could be used elsewhere. I hope you are having a Merry Christmas. Sincerely, Mike */*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/* Twinky, you wrote: “Mike on another thread is determined that we should see him as ‘empathetic.’ Right. Really. … What's empathy? ” You then gave me a wiki article, which was great but voluminous. I already gave you a brief report on what I liked most there. I liked the short practical one better. It is aimed at therapeutic type of empathy, and, I admit, this deep an empathy is almost totally absent in my dealings when the food fights rage. A weak version of this kind of empathy on my part can pop up passively for me as I read some posts, but the therapy model just doesn’t fit most of our adversarial confrontations. Food-fights start off as debates that are important, and that could use some careful discussion, but for various reasons serious civil discussion here with me is pretty unstable, and those careful discussion crash to the ground. In my personal live, off-line, I have actually been in a few situations where this deep caring therapy type of empathy is called for, but it has been a long time. Twice I was a twig leader and had a few people cry on my shoulder. My way of dealing with them was totally different than my ways here. I’d LIKE to practice that kind of empathy here but who would allow me? …something for future discussion. I have asked a few, both on-line and in PMs what mode of conversation I could have with Penworks, should she show up while I’m discussing her book in this thread. Here the empathy tug and the theology debate tug are opposite directions, making it difficult and delicate. …and only a big maybe in being possible. I take it Charlene wasn’t hit hard with the sex aberrations of TWI, but by the mind-control and the research department anomalies. With Charlene I feel MAYBE it could be appropriate, MAYBE we two could have friendly, civil disagreement and discussion without a food-fight mode setting in. If it were Kris Skedgell, though, I’d have a much, much, much more difficult time. With Kris I would have to be in therapy mode empathy ONLY, from what I heard, and that would be impossible on-line in public, and she would most certainly not agree to it happening. I also would count myself as incompetent. */*/*/*/*/*/* Twinky wrote: “Why is that relevant to this thread? … Because Mike persists in shrieking about ‘Nazi Corps’ without ever thinking about how much some people have given to enter the Corps program; what it has cost them physically, emotionally, in relationships; in other opportunities. … Without doubt everyone tried their best to do the program as directed.” Ok, I hear you. This has happened, and I admit no empathy during those posts. I can cut way back on them. One reason I persisted there was to demonstrate that I do not agree with everything VPW did or how he did it. He admitted to us at lunch one day that he was totally wrong in his approving the project to have PFAL’77 replace the PFAL’68 film. I think he was partially wrong in how he set the Corps trainers loose, especially after 1982. I am not a zombie eyed VPW zealot, but a careful critic of him at times. The difficulties that arose in and from the Corps I feel should be separated far from the collateral discussions. Another big reason for me crying foul about the Corps is when I see some of the nasty practices that arose within the Corps being used on me in the food fights. So Twinky, please try and remember my stand against VPW’s regarding the Corps. I hope it can help you you and the others pull back on constantly labeling and treating me like a VPW idolator. That mis-characterizing of me prevents much good discussion, and just helps force the food fights. And strong disagreements can happen in good civil discussion, but that civlilty breaks down when the logical competitions start resembling the tactics of confrontation that were inappropriately used in the Corps, especially after the big melt-down in 1986. */*/*/*/* Twinky wrote: “Unfortunately, that included being stomped on from great height, repeatedly, for the most minor infractions - and for that same behaviour to be mimicked by trainees (in rez Corps). The joy of service and the enthusiasm for service was crushed nearly out of existence, for many of the "Nazi Corps."” Here you are describing some of those tactics. It would be nice to see them not imitated so much in future discussions, thus helping their civility. */*/*/*/* Twinky wrote: “[ And who "Nazi'd" them? The man who set up the program. So in condemning "Nazi Corps" Mike is, in effect, condemning VPW’” Yes, you got it right. You are making the same point I made above. We are in agreement here, and I have known it for years. But because of the food fight camouflaging, this seems to be a new revelation to you. I have often said it, unheard. */*/*/*/* Twinky wrote: “Now he has a different target in his sights: Charlene. Charlene, who as a young woman, heard the word and received it with joy. It filled her heart with enthusiasm and she wanted more and more of it. … In Mikeology, she snapped." Because…” As I stated before and several times now in other threads, I am not targeting her at all. Furthermore, I think she would agree with me that she could have done better taking the advice she got, even from grads, to go slower. I am not saying all she says in her book is wrong, because she went too fast 50 years ago. It is clear that she documents in detail that her emotions made her decision process not the best, and that she went faster than most of us to commit to the Corps. I am not saying that my slow way of committing to go WoW was the right way. In fact, I have admitted that I may have gone too slow. I am not attacking myself for saying I went too slow and I am not attacking her by picking up from her book that she went too fast. Please check out the other places where I have expanded on the few things I have posted on her book. I am not in attack mode at all. Think empathetically how I feel with a false accusation. */*/*/*/*/* Twinky wrote: “…she didn't hang around for 20 years "thinking about it" before she made a decision to follow the Lord (except, unfortunately, it wasn't the Lord but the Liar that she followed). Mike condemns her for this. ….” Not a condemnation. I was just reading what she wrote. I think everyone has to admit she went faster than most. Sometimes I wish I could do that better. */*/*/*/* Twinky wrote: “She was too hasty. I wonder what he knows of her circumstances, that made this choice attractive to her?” Yes! She made it obvious in her writing. It was the love in the fellowships, the new doctrines, and her mourning for her lost mother, and a few other factors. Maybe she never again made such a fast decision. I don’t know. I’m only about a third through the book. */*/*/*/* Twinky wrote: “Where's his empathy for Charlene? Did I miss something?” Yes, you missed how little I got read so far meant I have not run into that much (besides her mom) that would generate empathy. You may have formed a misimpression, as my few words on her so far were disagreeing with her stated theology early in the book and gradually building. I disagree with her theology as stated scantly, so far. How am I to show empathy when disagreeing? Impossible. I got to switch from one mode to the other, and can’t ride them both simultaneously. */*/*/* The next 5 items were you correctly pointing out good fast decisions in the Bible, to which I already agreed with you about. */*/*/*/* Twinky wrote: “Mike, just because you can't make a quick decision, doesn't mean that you have any right to condemn those who did.” Right. I agree. ...and I deny doing it, at least in this instance with Charlene. Not a drop of condemnation. */*/*/*/*/* Twinky wrote: “And just because you have zero empathy for anyone else, doesn't give you any right to condemn or criticise anyone else.” I sense you could have written that better, but I get the gist. I want to pump up my empathy in our civil discussions. That is difficult when we are always adversarial and intensely, and that is impossible in a food fight. Lets try some truce attitudes and lean toward good discussion, where disagreement can take place, and empathy not lost in the shuffle. I will try my best.

I'm taking a break from my Twinky Tome, and this post caught my eye. Why? Because I can totally empathize with it. By the Summer of 1985 the ministry was already way over the line, crossed the boundary, in overdoing the whole devil spirit thing, especially possession. That said, that I can relate to your complaint there, and can even add to it, if you want to discuss it… after my Twinky Tome is finished, and then trimmed down. */*/*/*/* One last thing: please let me re-work your post a little bit: 6 hours ago, OldSkool said: Oh yeah...the boundaries of the mind ...when you move the landmarks taught in pflap and the wierwilles (they say the word but we know the word=wierwille) then you become open for posession. Thats how I heard it from martindale I cant say for sure but that may be a reason mike wont engage anyone here unless its him lecturing and going about his nostalgic, imagined point of view. Eve considered what the devil had to say. When you move the boundaries of the word those nast deebil spuurts get in there.. */*/*/*/*/*/* I color coded things to untangle the mixed topics, and to help me explain things. Everything I colored can be removed, but all for different reasons. (they say the word but we know the word=wierwille) That is just a distraction. A burst of anti-praise for the anti-idol, that is not part of the discussion. You see these same human dynanaics in some churches, where the praise bursts can be rhythmic and involving others. I’ve seen it done tastefully, but when it is for the whole church service it is distracting and mind numbing. Thats how I heard it from martindale This is good history, and belongs at the end to not distract. Eve considered what the devil had to say. This is complicated theology in itself, and is worthy of a lot of discussion, but is a distraction here. For future discussion: Remember, Eve had a perfectly renewed mind, and needed not consider anything outside the boundaries God gave her. Sometimes we need to grope around and see what fits. Even Jesus “considered” the devil’s words in the desert, until the Scriptures were wrongly divided. When you move the boundaries of the word those nast deebil spuurts get in there.. This is wrong in the sense that it is just a parody, and as such, a distraction to the logic. */*/*/*/*/* Removing the colored text: 6 hours ago, OldSkool said: Oh yeah...the boundaries of the mind. heard it from martindale: IF you move the landmarks taught in PFAL, Corps teachings, and the T.V.T. THEN you become open for possession. I can’t say for sure but that may be a reason mike wont engage anyone here. He seems to make exceptions for him lecturing, and going on-and-on about his nostalgic experiences, and constructed point of view. */*/*/* Now that would be something I could engage in. I edited it from food-fight mode to the gentlemanly discussion mode. My quick answer to that thoughtful question is “No.” I’m not worried about any of those things that went wild in the Corps program, at some times and some places and with some people. Acknowledging, Twinky’s request that I pull back on the food-fight aimed at the Corps. I think lots of boundaries are open to experimentation, or temporary moving to see what happens. There are only a few boundaries or doctrines, for me, that have reached the stage of “untouchable” in my working them and incorporating them into my life. There are always some boundaries that I am experimenting with, gingerly, almost all the time. And I am sorry I do go on-and-on when I am in food-fight mode. But there are ALSO lots of times I switch off that mode and present material for discussion. My complaint is that they are almost always ignored or improperly dealt with, by the standards of a gentlemanly conversation. I am pursuing the truce idea still. */*/*/*/* Does anyone know the reason for all the hostility in the food-fight mode? I do. It’s a long strange trip. For the first few days (maybe a week?) I got along with everyone, and it was moving in a good civil discussion like direction… until suddenly I was recognized by a poster, and immediately targeted as being a REAL BAD CRAZY guy. There was a FAST Digital Decision by lots of people against me and the food fight started. There were a few more DDs against me, and it all set in stone. After 20 years, I’d like to break out of that stone, and switch WAY OVER to the gentlemanly discussion mode, and if Twinky wants to join, I can drop the use of “gentlemanly” but I think on this Christmas Eve, it is just us few gentlemen on the board. I am willing to discuss lots of boundary moving. It gets less and less, though as we approach the collaterals, though. The SNT tapes are pretty close, but not often. The T.V.T. (Twi Verbal Traditions) though are riddled with problems, and this teaching by Martindale sounds like one of the TVTs that needs to be nailed. I can see oodles of problems in what is reported here, and in what I witnessed of this boundary TVT outside the Corps. */*/*/* I had enough of a break from my Twinky Tome, and will make some coffee, before I check back in, and see who is on-line.

There is a proper time for every level of child rearing.

You missed major points I made, but thank you for the opportunity to repeat them. This shiny marketing presentation they need none of my help with. It is the second bio that I am assembling a crew to UN-shine in a loving way, the whole story. I think this is a lot of what Luke did with writing Acts. It is the unvarnished history of the First Century Church, the parts God knows are useful to us.

Twinky, I thought you'd be asleep now. I did not see your post until just now. I have you in my word processor right now, and diligently doing my homework. The wiki article was cool, especially the neuroscience part. I realized from reading that one of the UCSD superstars has a relatively recent book out on empathy, without using that word so much. I've been reading it now slowly for months. https://www.amazon.com/Conscience-Origins-Intuition-Patricia-Churchland/dp/1324000899 I hope you read my apology and re-write of my opening post on this thread. Some of your long post's concerns are addressed by that re-write. My heart sank (can you empathize?) when I googled "snapping" and saw how terrible a choice it was for me. I agree the Digital/Analog names are strange, and before I write any of the up for my brain science friends I'll have hopefully found better nomenclature. Also, I want to get straight with you about Charlene. I am absolutely NOT mounting an attack on her. I kinda doubt it if she wants to discuss things with me here, and that is ok. I can empathize with that. I don't know if you noticed or not, but I have asked for advice here twice, maybe 3 times, as to how to post on Charlene's book and where to do it. I do want to post on it and take issue with her expressed "theology" or what ever word she prefers for that. The fact that she is a part of my past, a super-star of the early Corps was my impression of her. I said before, I don't want to destroy that memory with crazy food fights in the Cafe. Please be empathetic with me here on this one. */*/*/* I'll check in here and there to see what is happening, but my window cleaning business is shut down for days, and I am getting to a few other neglected projects, like links from T-Bone to look at. Otherwise I am cramming for my Empathy Exam coming up.

Basically that is how all marketing works, isn't it? It is varnished. It is "put your best foot forward first." I included "advertising" in my Confabulation Tabulation If you operate a business you don't have a business card cluttered with caveats do your? Is that lying to have a nice looking business card?

I can semi-agree here. TWI-4 has a mission clarification thing going on. I am thinking it through also, and making suggestions. I see what you bring up here is remotely related. There really should be two different bios for VPW in print and on web that TWI-4 offers, each radically different. This will be a real tough thing for them to do, however, and workarounds are in the works…. LoL mostly in my mind and posting here… but a little in e-mails and in face to face and in voice-phone. */*/*/* One bio of VPW would be to market classes and books with, plus be included with syllabus and other foundational class materials.. This is what they do now, and do pretty well according to professional standards. The other bio of VPW would be for Advanced Class students, and would be the unvarnished version. It will NOT be the cartoonish, extreme, worse-than-Hitler version of him we all are so familiar for decades here at GSC, but it MUST include enough information that will explain why building and maintaining that Pure Evil anti-idol is such a popular past-time here for some, at times. */*/*/*/* Just like the Corps, though, a lot of good goes on here, both in “About the Way” and on all the other stages, er forums. This GSC has long been the only Twitter for grads, up until about 4 years ago when Facebook groups for grads became a relatively smaller thing, fueled somewhat by TWI-4 “un-loosing” their grads to the Internet. (Twinky, this empath paragraph is for you too.) But I originally came to GreaseSpot for news; the Grad Grapevine it was then in 2002 for me, and still is. I’d a have never known about the RnR if ’twern’t for GSC, to give a recent example. One bio is the slick professional marketing style thing, addressed to people unfamiliar with PFAL. The other bio is the more academic, more thorough and more advanced than the Schoenheit paper of 1986 went. Of course this dream of mine can only happen with a miracle in TWI-4 in the coming year, but…. who can say for the following year? (Hey, Twinky, I’m sure the second bio is as cartoonish for you, as the “grease-vpw-persona” is for me !!! Are your empathy detectors clicking up counts here?) There are all sorts of reasons TW-4 cannot and will not do this second bio, at least not soon. However, in some ways it is being slowly hammered out here. LoL ... As you folks hammer on me, and I hammer back, lots of boilerplate for lots of grads is being generated here for future things, like the second bio with unvarnished history. I hope to see the beginnings of it being written by grateful grads, proPFAL people, all over the world. Right now, this year and last year, see spurts of it appearing on facebook. Yeah, the second bio will probably be a third-party, unofficially subcontracted production. I hope to take part in it, and believe I have been giving it a jump start for years now right here. */*/*/*/*/*/* Now, I have been promising Twinky that New Years Eve day is my best time to address her long post to me, which I have delayed not for weeks and weeks…. no?.. days and days?….. nope, hours and hours. So finally the time has arrived, and I have to excuse myself from the ongoing discussions. I may have to go completely off-line, with her post in my MS Word app to avoid getting too distracted here. Merry Christmas

LoL You mean there is no Reparations Department, either ?????

You must have your reader settings out of kilter. I would say that my post was MORE LIKE saying you should slightly delay some of the things they will need in life, rather than dump it all on them at too early an age. Maybe if you fiddle with your reader settings, and go back you will be better able to read my slight delay idea. You might be able to read the rest of my post better that way also.

I'll get back later to the other errors in your post here, but most important is your omission of a key idea that I have not elaborated on for a long time here. I have often said that beginning students of PFAL have zero need for the clutter and distractions that footnotes and academic citations bring. I am also glad the early collaterals are missing the clutter NOW, as I open them to read. That I have said often. A rarely stated gladness I have is toward the LACK of pointers to outside teachers the new students of PFAL get. Here is the reason: THERE IS ERROR in the teachings of others, the others VPW got his PFAL teachings from. Why expose new students to error? In a year or two they will have no trouble finding VPW’s sources and then they will be better prepared to separate the truth from the error. In 1971 the documentation of these teachers was put into Elena Whiteside’s book, “The Way – Living in Love.” It had been on old tapes prior to that. It was not hidden information, just delayed, so that new students could mature a little with the foundational principles. I hear from posters that “The Way – Living in Love” has been hidden away from all. This is something worth looking into. I will ask around within TWI-4 as to what happened to that book. It may be Elena Whiteside had something to do with it. I wonder if she extended the copyright, as it is now over 50 years old. I think TWI probably removed the book themselves, as part of a LONG STANDING policy of “pulling” the old SNT teaching tapes of people who are “no longer with the ministry,” as the heavily used saying went. They pulled the Rock of Ages movie, probably due to some scenes with a few superstars who are “no longer with the ministry,” like Ralph D, and lots of early Corps. I intend to talk to the History Department at TWI-4 about how they might as well include the previously “banned” material since it is readily available on the web to all now. Any unvarnished history of TWI will have to include all the great teachers they (TWI-2 and TWI-3) trashed.

I'll get back later to the other errors in your post here, but most important is your omission of a key idea that I have not elaborated on for a long time here. I have often said that beginning students of PFAL have zero need for the clutter and distractions that footnotes and academic citations bring. I am also glad the early collaterals are missing the clutter NOW, as I open them to read. That I have said often. A rarely stated gladness I have is toward the LACK of pointers to outside teachers the new students of PFAL get. Here is the reason: THERE IS ERROR in the teachings of others, the others VPW got his PFAL teachings from. Why expose new students to error? In a year or two they will have no trouble finding VPW’s sources and then they will be better prepared to separate the truth from the error. In 1971 the documentation of these teachers was put into Elena Whiteside’s book, “The Way – Living in Love.” It had been on old tapes prior to that. It was not hidden information, just delayed, so that new students could mature a little with the foundational principles. I hear from posters that “The Way – Living in Love” has been hidden away from all. This is something worth looking into. I will ask around within TWI-4 as to what happened to that book. It may be Elena Whiteside had something to do with it. I wonder if she extended the copyright, as it is now over 50 years old. I think TWI probably removed the book themselves, as part of a LONG STANDING policy of “pulling” the old SNT teaching tapes of people who are “no longer with the ministry,” as the heavily used saying went. They pulled the Rock of Ages movie, probably due to some scenes with a few superstars who are “no longer with the ministry,” like Ralph D, and lots of early Corps. I intend to talk to the History Department at TWI-4 about how they might as well include the previously “banned” material since it is readily available on the web to all now. Any unvarnished history of TWI will have to include all the great teachers they (TWI-2 and TWI-3) trashed.

Next re-write I will consider that. We're still along way to book publication, and the the screen play for GSC hasn't even been started. Thought about who you would like to play you? Something to make a well thought through Analog Decision over.

I said I would answer your long post when things lighten up for me and I mean it. How many hours am I late? What is the page count now? You are a harsh taskmaster Ms. Scrooge. It is Christmas time and I have things to do. Be patient and thankful for all our blessings. Peace and Love. Merry Christmas

It is simple: a Digital Decision happens quickly in time, while an Analog Decision takes a lot of time. They are both good modes of thought that the brain is commonly capable of. There is no value judgment attached to either, like where one is better than the other. Some situations in life are best served with a fast Digital Decision. Some situations in life are best served with a slow Analog decision. If a situation comes up and the best mode of thought is NOT chosen, then problems can occur. I gave in my re-written initializing post two examples where the best modes of thought were used. The first is on the day of Pentecost, where the 5,000 listeners performed a Digital Decision and believed what Peter preached to them that very day. The second is years later with the Bereans, where a lot of them performed an Analog Decision and believed what Paul preached to them over the course of time slowly and carefully. The way I have defined Digital Decisions and Analog Decisions here is the same way I was using the older terminology of snapping and AMS, respectively. I think I explained these modes of thoughts better this second time, compared to my (dreadful) first time. Thanks for giving me this second chance to explain the phenomena I have noticed applying to all of us over the decades.

I can only do so much. And yes, I'm not going to submit to your bright light in the face interrogations, either. We can discuss most things as gentlemen. I have my interrogations I'd love to grille you with, but I am mostly looking for info that I can use to not show you up, but to help ease some of the tensions here, and find solutions for other people hurt by TWI in the past. I think the help you do is piddly, and goes to a few people who don't want real help.. Like it or not PFAL will be blessing people for a long time if the Lord tarries. There are too many people who cherish the teachings in PFAL, and I am standing up for them. And quite effectively, because you say you wont waste time on me and here you are wasting more time. What I say is SUCH a severe challenge to the image of PFAL that is manufactured here that you CAN'T HELP but "waste your time" here trying to monitor and nullify every effective post I make.

Everything takes time.

Maybe I'll get back to those threads where we discussed J Juedes 2 videos

I did not call you a handicap. I called your inner circle "experience" a possible handicap, compared to you thinking it was and asset.

Try reading my apology and re-write of this thread's opening to see the love. Also take note of the love in that I am refraining from the theatrics, and ignoring the attacks on me, in order to continue the discussion. You should know by now that I am able to handle all the baloney, so let's just discuss.

Yes, but that was a wrong D.D. decision on his part. I actually DID see that video and commented on it here. I thought he was bias and sloppy. Just like you can make the Bible say anything you want, you can do that same thing with Shakespear and PFAL. We can re-visit that thread. I forget the details why I rejected him. I think I debated with him some here, too.

Oh you big poopie head you..... Hey wait a minute. Didn't we have a truce in the works?

Sure. I have copied the info for later perusal. Some I possibly already have or have seen. How about you dealing with the fact that you have not seen the whole story and 100% accurate? I regard your being in the inner circle in late dash numbered TWIs a possible handicap, possibly severe. There are things you have not seen nor known. But I'll try to not hold it against you.

Jumping to Conclusions in a Rush to Judgement a RE-WRITE Please compare this with the opening post on this thread. This is kind of phenomenon I saw often in TWI-1, and in MY OPINION it is part of how inappropriate idolization of VPW happened with some people. A common phenomenon in human cognition is the ability to quickly crystalize a whole new perspective or paradigm, and quickly jumping to complex conclusions or decisions, like in a rush to judgement. I’ll call it a Digital Decision. Because it is like going from one state to the another, spending next to no time in between. It could also be called a Fast Complex Decision. I imagine that in many situations this ability to quickly crystalize a large impression is a useful skill. That is why it is a common phenomenon: it is built into our DNA. This kind of Digital Decision making could have all sorts of survival values in the wild. This kind of fast change notion finds applications in the electronics industry, and can be likened to the 1’s and 0’s in computers. Other benefits of fast changes are in old fashioned light switches with a loud mechanical noise coming from their actuating, making them easy to feel and hear which mode they are in. But fast changes can be dangerous when applied to the wrong situation In our lives some situations require long ponderous thought, and not-so-fast action. Let’s come up with a better name for these terms, why don’t we? How about we find one with the terminology of Acts 17:10-11, where the Bereans did not jump to conclusions. Until then, I’ll stick with my digital and analog model A not-so-fast decision process can be called an Analog Decision. An analog switch can swing from hi to low as a dimmer switch, and work at all the points in between. An analog switch is smooth moving switch, that rests where you put it. You can move a dimmer switch from off to on VERY gradually, taking some time to get used to the light. The Bereans who took in the Word that Paul spoke, held it in for deep pondering, worked the scriptures day after day, talked with each other a lot during this scripture party. They probably had only one town “Bible” to work with. They compared impressions with each there of how Paul’s word fit. And then they gradually arrived at the point where they were ready to fully believe Paul. “And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.” Do Digital Decisions also happen in the Bible? Yes. Compare this Berean Analog Decision to the day of Pentecost, when 5,000 people heard the S.I.T. miracle (?and maybe saw the tongues like as of fire?) and they all believed that same day, real quick. And how many “Bibles” did they have with them to search the scriptures? Probably none; too heavy for travellers. It looks like the fast Digital Decision there was good and godly. This same powerful human dynamic of DDs and Ads, can be hijacked by the devil, and then the they both can be misapplied and do harm. But otherwise they are both good, and from God, like free will. It looks to me that a D.D. was involved with Paul’s conversion on the road to Damascus. */*/*/*/* I have been thinking about this phenomenon, these DDs and Ads, ever since my first twig fellowship in 1971 where it happened almost regularly with teenagers. Just two days into my posting here, 20 years ago, I brought it up. A blast from the past: Posted December 27, 2002 11:06 pst (slightly edited) I'm amazed at how impatient everyone is to get all this in a thumbnail. It reminds me of early 1987, when there was almost no info flowing and everything was hush-hush, yet within months everyone had made up their mind which splinter (or not) to be a part of. With relatively no information to lean on, decisions were made back then that have never been reexamined, only built on, or piled on. I'm glad I was taught to take it slower. It’s sad how much information was lost or never considered by those who crystallized their stand on emotion and/or whichever leader happened to tickled their fancy. In those early days, after the 1986 meltdown, I would always shop around for info because I wanted to decide more carefully. I noticed that no one else here in SD did that except for one other person. When JL from CES would blow into town once every year, me and that one other person would always attend. We two “ringers” would always be the only people from the other major SD camp at the time, the GeerSplinters, as we mostly attended those fellowships at that time. No CES people would talk to GeerSplinters, and no GeerSplinters would talk to CESers. We two ringers straddled that line for 10 years. Everyone huddled into a group that was quickly decided upon, and once there, the leaders would tell [or inspire] them to M&A all other grad groups. The same applied to the Craigites here, but they were in much smaller numbers. The majority here went with Geer, and only one small twig went with LCM. The same applies to most GreaseSpotters in my opinion. Lots of digging into their positions, little knowledge of what the others are doing. I urge patience and info gathering. */*/*/* I have posted on this since several times using terminology like rush to judgement, quick crystallization, and jumping to concussions. Only just recently have I seen that this notion of Digital Decisions applies to several posters’ life stories, and to Charlene in particular, by her description. I see both Analog Decisions and Digital Decisions as good skills that can go wrong. These kinds of decisions are made in sports all the time, especially in baseball where some interesting pondering can happen. My hunch is that Digital Decisions to direct hyper-love toward twi/vpw, are very similar to Digital Decisions to direct hyper-hate toward twi/vpw. Some people are more prone to ADs and some are more prone to DDs. I distinctly remember being jealous of DD prone grads in my early years. My slowness to commit ended up later helping me, but back then it was sometimes a liability. I missed out on a lot, by being too careful. I felt I was a very slow learner, and I wanted to be able to jump in all the way. I was an AD person to excess, in my current opinion. After a lifetime of pondering all this I see that I was excessive in backing off from full commitment. It was fear. I consider it a character trait, a flaw of mine, that needs working on. Similar introspection may be useful for those who may be the more DD types.

Might any mods place this at the start and/or the beginning of this thread's opening post?

. Late EDIT: chockful warned me that the term “snapped” is taken, and is a nasty word in our culture. (see end of Page 1 for chockful’s tip to me) My APOLOGIES to all, because my use of that word meant some hurtful things to many here. I am sorry for that. I have great sorrow that I caused you ANY degree of sorrow by my use of that word. I know that some sorrow was caused, even though I did not intend it. I will look at my text’s every use of the offending word, one by one, and deal with them a little later. The common usage I was totally unaware of. I verified chockful’s tip at google. (see my response to chockful in Pages 2 ff) The software, understandably, prevents an edit this late to the opening post, so in addition to this notice (an E.C.N. of sorts), I will completely re-write the opening post with a new set of terms. I already knew that A.S.M. for the opposite of the offending word was just a lame, temporary term.