Mike

That is a very telling phrase: "...the foundation of my faith was built upon..." I am so sorry to see so many built their faith on what they thought was a traditional holy man who doubled as a scholar. In the 1970s I was too suspicious of holy men and of academics to have built my faith on VPW. He was obviously a ringer in my mind back then, but I didn't know how much. I am glad I didn't. I just focused on USING the keys I was taught to open up the Bible and especially Paul's Epistles to my mind so that I could use them to benefit my live and others. The ministry was merely a vehicle to help this process in my mind. My suspicions and respects toward VPW went up and down over the decades. But my understanding of the Bible has just increased and increased over the years, due to the start I got in PFAL. I am so glad I built my faith on the Bible, and still do.

As far as I know, a surprisingly large number of grads thought VPW was claiming "divine dictation." I have encountered several here over the years. Another point: MOST of VPW's research was 5-senses. The abundance of revelations that did happen were spread out over 42.5 years. There was a greater abundance of simple senses study.

Oops. I posted this in the wrong thread.

There you go again, trying to plant conspiracy theories in my head where there are none. If I did not want it discussed publicly, WHY would I give people the link to it a few days ago? Why would I have brought it up last Sept, eventually prompting you to post the entire transcript? Why would I have posted the entire transcript here 20 years ago, and maybe TWICE????? Let me relieve you of some fatigue in your brain’s overtaxed conspiracy theory lobe. HAD I posted that entire transcript last Sept or last week, the first thing that would happen is Rocky demanding I pay for the privilege, and others wining and complaining that I am taking over GreaseSpot. If I start a thread, someone will complain about that. If I don’t start a thread, other conspiracy theories crop up about that. The historians, if they ever are able to figure out this sight, will get a big belly laugh at you folks are so bowled over by almost every thing I do. You ought to look at yourselves sometime. It is like the Keyboard Keystone Kops the way people arise out of relative slumber here to take me on. If I post a lot, people complain. If I take a break to go washing windows, people complain. People are in a complaining and conspiracy theory mode over me all the time. What a WASTE of brain cells. WordWolf, I am very happy you posted “Light Began to Dawn” twice. It is an important tape transcript to get the details accurate from.

Please read WW's transcript thread on the 1965 tape where VPW explains that the revelations were few and came only after he worked the word with his senses the best he could. Many people get the impression that VPW was claiming lots of divine dictation from God. That was NOT the case. I see 1942 as phenomena and not revelation. In the weeks, months, and years after that it was mostly study with senses, until he hit a snag. Sometimes God would help him over that snag, and it was back to the senses.

It simply added more detail. SHEESH@! Lighten up a little, man.

We have done a flurry of posting worth 4 pages today. If anyone is Crying Crickets on some needed response from me, please re-post. I lose a lot in the shuffle when I go to work, gym, or shopping.

Yes, I checked the context. At that spot you quoted me, I was talking about committees obtaining or "getting" the Word from the tattered remnants by manuscript analysts, and NOT a new student obtaining understanding by reading his KJV. There was ANOTHER spot nearby where I actually WAS discussing a new student getting understanding by 5 senses reading of KJV and PFAL collaterals. Nathan_Jr confused the same items I think. This is an example where you may be reading for "gotcha" points, rather than reading for what I am trying to say. */*/* Late Edit I find myself using the word "get" for that process of analyzing the ancient manuscripts. That is the word VPW used at Craig's Coronation and on that SNT tape. "I don’t know if our men will ever have to rise, sir, to do the years of research that I’ve done to get to the Word, but I don’t think that’s necessary any longer, Craig, I think all we need to do is move on from where we are to where God would have us to go. And I think, sir, you’re the man to direct that and to move that ministry around the world.

Did you note that late edit I put in my post above. I was slow. sorry

I'll guess on the context, based on my use of the word "get." I believe that is referring to VPW "getting to" the Word when it was buried, pre-1942. THERE IN THAT SITUATION, in addition to Key #4 and using up the senses approach, he needed to get that revelation promised. THEN, after that we have PFAL to give us the keys to operate and see via the 5-senses what God's interpretation is, as we work the keys, and receive more teaching from others. If you tell me where I wrote that then I can check the context better to veryify this hunch. */*/* This is similar to what I had to tell Nathan_Jr, so maybe I wrote that context poorly. To Nathan_Jr I wrote: No. You are confusing what I just posted about a new student starting to read the Bible, and a Biblical researcher trying to re-construct the originals from tattered remnants.

No. You are confusing what I just posted about a new student starting to read the Bible, and a Biblical researcher trying to re-construct the originals from tattered remnants.

I stand corrected on this. I think I had the right idea, but wrong handling of the words "service" and "love." Two posts above, I was thinking of service as a pure entity, like love. Thank you, OldSkool.

What you are describing there is SELF service. That is not genuine service. I mean spiritual serving, where the focus is on the current and future needs of the OTHER person.

Do you REALLY think I am advocating that the only way to truly understand scripture is via revelation? What a whopping mis-characterization! Was it sloppiness on your part, or was it deliberate? What I post is from the AC's 16 Keys for Walking in the Spirit. Key #4 is "Study the Word much. What you can know by the five senses God expects you to know." This principle of starting first with the senses, to the best of our ability, is ALSO explained in great detail in the thread posted here by WordWolf last September, “Tape called ‘Light Began to Dawn.’ A Partial transcript. Selling Plurality. SNT 214” and you can find it here: https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/25315-tape-called-light-began-to-dawn-a-partial-transcript-selling-plurality-snt-214/ Obviously, revelation is totally necessary for the Word to be first given. It may involve revelation for preserving and transmitting it. It may involve revelation when it is hidden or destroyed (Jer.36). But when we begin learning the Bible we must use our senses and logic to read it and study it. We were taught all of this before. This is not new with me at all.

We could add details all day to what love is. But bottom line is service; serving others and trusting God to serve us what we need. That is how Jesus lived.

Well, that criticism was probably aimed at the less accurate WWJD people who decide what Jesus would do with their feelings and traditional perspectives. But for a grad who understands administrations and such, WWJD is a useful renewed mind exercise. If that thoroughly entrenched expert in the collaterals who told you that was VPW, then he made a mistake.

We can only TRY to duplicate what Jesus did. Sometimes God will boost the results of our efforts and we can come closer. Evidently, God thinks it's good enough in what we can accomplish while trying our best to serve in love like Jesus did. God simply wants the job to get done, so if we do our best, He can do the rest. An ambassador DOES have duplicate authority over the devils and forces of corruption.

Love is serving.

A fake Jesus would be lacking in love. An ambassador for Christ would be exhibiting the same love Jesus loved with.

I do not get this last sentence at all. Can you explain who suffocates and how here? When it comes to coming up with an interpretation of a verse, I would WANT my attempt to be as conforming as possible, and severely restricted to what God wants that interpretation to be. If God wants something to have more than one interpretation, I would expect Him to tell us. However, multiple APPLICATIONS of a single interpretation may exist at times.

NOT b y committees, that is for sure! The ultimate details regarding OUR POWER and how to bless with it are impossible to pull out of the surviving manuscripts by 5-senses methods only. Matching wits with the obfuscating powers of the adversary is foolish and ignorant. The only way to get God's interpretation is via a direct intervention by The Author. This is why VPW prayed the day before the 1942 Promise for something FROM GOD that he "would never have to back up on." Like Solomon, he got more than he was asking for. God is generous. What is the most important thing God can do for you TODAY?

It was only the corrupted verbal traditions that were to blame. Because they were verbal, it was difficult to nail errors as they arose. Verbal traditions are good if they confom to the written Word.

There were lots of errors like this TWI and those kinds of disciplinarian TVTs grew worse and worse in TWI-2. I am so glad I got out by 1988.

...then you try again. Testing our power in the real world means helping people with their real problems. If we fail, we simply try again until we get it right. The main ingredient to all this is love, so if we focus, not on ourselves, but on whom we minister, then God will be there to teach us, just like He taught young Jesus.