Mike

Dizzydog, After that long answer to shazdancer, I?m out of time to thoroughly go through all your most recent posts? details. Tomorrow?s another day. In the meantime I can give a short answer. You wrote: ?How about one question Mike. What determines a persons mastery of PFAL? Give a simple answer to this question.? By lot of reading WITH the attitude that it is the authoritative Word of God. That?s the short answer. It?s elaborated on in other posts of mine. The time is coming soon when I?ll have one large file at my disposal to retrieve things like this for people. ************ As for your summation on Dr?s teachings. it was too vague to comment directly on. As you give me passages and page numbers, we can talk turkey, but I see no reason to regard your shootings from the hip as at all authoritative. I?ve seen HUGE differences between what people SAY Dr taught and what is actually on paper. Most people retain his verbal and private words more than his written. That needs to be reversed. I was surprised you didn?t see all the posting I did of quotes from Dr. These MASSIVE quotes of Dr?s I?ve posted here can be retrieved easily. His ENTIRE last teaching is posted, both in the magazine and original transcript forms, plus several other SNS tapes, and many book and magazine passages. So many that threads and a poll protested it. You?ve not seen even one tenth of what I?ve brought here yet. These are the approximate thread names for some of the major threads where these things can be found: Dr?s Last Teaching: Lost for 17 Years Innies and Outies: All men are Liars News Flash For Older Grads - Dr Tried to Warn Us News Flash! LCM Never Installed As Spiritual Leader

shaz, You wrote: ?The "ancient fragments" are NOT at great variance. In fact, the overwhelming majority of the time, the text variations are simple disagreements in spelling or grammar. I think you are well-read enough to know that, so I think it is dishonest of you to portray the texts we have as badly flawed.? I?m not sure what you mean by ?well-read? but I might caution you that ten world respected authors all giving their summation opinions on the texts is not the kind of authority I regard as the highest. Here?s what I do read, in the footnotes of my interlinear are the variations between the modern critical Greek texts. These variations are NOT simple spelling, but some are additive and some are exclusionary for entire phrases at times. If these modern texts, which were all devised to smooth out the variations in the ancient fragments, have rich variations in themselves, what says this to the ancient? It says that they have MORE variations. Why bother to make the critical Greek texts if the variations were trivial? On another point, what?s so simple about spelling variations? They can change the tense of a verb and all kinds of other critical things. When it comes to hamstringing Christianity?s power, the adversary can throw off certain critical words through mere spelling. ****** But that?s not all to the variations deal. There is a certain ?black hole? in our knowledge. It?s a gap between the originals and the earliest fragments. This gap has fuzzy edges, but it?s approximately 200 years. In that time we have only scant indirect evidence, like non-canonical authors quoting verses from their own very early texts. From this ?black hole? period we do have evidence that a lot of scribes felt pretty free to change the texts to their likeing. We know from the Bible that all forsook Paul and his ministry to the Gentiles, and his ministry was in ruin. We know from Peter that his ministry was in disarray in the end because he his dying last words are that lots of people were screwing up on Paul?s epistles. Plus, from history we know the Diaspora happened around 70, so Peter?s ministry was lost. In addition to great spiritual darkness prrevailing within the Church descending at the beginning of this ?black hole? we also know there was a lot of persecution. These are the most non-ideal circumstances for making good copies. We don?t know what got lost in this gap. There is no guarantee that God?s written Word will survive man?s abuse. The spiritual Word of God lives and abides forever, but it?s written form can suffer all kinds of abuses, and there?s no guarantee IF or WHEN God will restore that written Word. In Jeremiah 36 it looks like God restored His destroyed written Words pretty quickly, and added many words in the process. Also in Jeremiah, is the recovery of a lost scroll in the temple debris. Who knows how long it was lost. God?s Word in the stars was pretty lost at the time of Babel, but later restored by God in a completely new format with Moses. God?s Word was lost in the first century, and only portions have been recovered by traditional sense knowledge methods. If the written Word is lost ONLY God can recover it authoritatively. He did that with Dr?s ministry. All other previous attempts were fine, and useful in their time, but when God stepped in 1942, the whole game changed. We don?t know what got lost in this gap. There are indications that Paul SPOKE a lot of things that didn?t get written. God?s work in Dr?s ministry fixes this uncertainty, and He added a lot more because of the change in our times. These things come from things Dr said in the years when few were listening closely, and none with spiritual ears. ********* Now, after all that about textual variations, there?s still more that goes into the uncertainties that the existent ancient texts pose. Suppose for a minute that we have the originals, and that somehow we know for sure they are the originals. Great! How many people speak Aramaic out there? And how well can we trust you, those of you who do know Aramaic, to translate for us? And your Aramaic teachers? And the entire academic field of ancient languages? How much or the devil?s influence reaches into the academic institutions of his world? How about a lot? How much power does the adversary have to bend and shape languages and cultures over the past 2000 years? A lot. He can bend and shape entire languages and cultures to render passages impotent of passing on the power. Now un-supposed that we have the originals, but we have all the messing with the texts to add onto the adversary?s messing with language and culture. This introduces many uncertainties into the traditional approach to Biblical research. Without that 1942 promise behind him, there?s no way Dr could have plowed through all these uncertainties. God did it for him by revelation, AS he worked his 5-senses. Dr was the only one with that 1942 promise propelling him over the barricades. What tradition has passed on to us was better than nothing, but subtly stripped of power. What God taught Dr and Dr taught us in writing is best. ************ You then wrote: ?You give a passing nod to the Masorah of the Old Testament, but I have never heard you do anything but dismiss the OT along with the NT as being too far removed from the originals to be credible.? This has come up before. I believe that the OT was protected by lots of things. They didn?t have spirit so they NEEDED more help. The did have an entire culture built on the revelations to Moses. That culture was good at transmitting the texts to Jesus. The culture of the NT church and it written records was chaotic. ********* You then wrote: ?And who is to say that the workmen who labored to make these critical Greek texts were not inspired by God?? I believe at times they WERE inspired to make the best moves. But not all, and not at all times. The variations amongst them says this. These people were subject to horrible limitations of the errors in their theologies. They HAD to be somewhat inspired to get it done as well as they did, but they also brought in many errors. What?s different about Dr?s ministry is that finally God got someone to put all the pieces together that many had been working on for centuries. Dr was the first able to face the music when it came to defying cherished traditional errors, and to get it spread across the globe. ********* You then wrote: ?You want to make the case that VPW was allowed by God to steal the words of other men to include in His work, but you deny that anyone working in the sixteenth century, or the nineteenth, could have the same benefit of divine intervention when handling Holy Writ.? I TOTALLY deny it was theft. I see it like God giving Abraham the Promised Land even though there were settlers on that land. God owns it all. God owns all intellectual rights to all truths written. He lets men play with it. I?m thankful many men worked to the best of their natural and supernatural abilities in preparing texts and passages so that when Dr came to them he learned, and improve them via God?s direction. People like Kenyon and Styles saved God and Dr a lot of work, and I see rewards there for them. I do not see anyone who got it all put together accurately, besides Dr since the first century. All other prior successful efforts were partial and preparatory. ****** You then wrote: ?They were all church corrupt, according to you. None were able to rise above their denomination to feel responsible to God to handle His Word with honesty.? No. Just like Dr, they themselves were mixtures of good and evil characteristics, and often they DID rise up to do certain jobs. Dr?s job was to restore the power by restoring the root Word we can master. Often they helped him do it, even the ones centuries before Dr?s time. You then wrote: ?We Wayfers have more knowledge of the true Word of God than anyone else since Pentecost, according to you. How arrogant to claim that we know more than those who made it their life's work...? It?s not arrogant at all for me to say it was all handed to me and I believe it is the best, so I adhere to it and urge others to do the same with confidence. That?s not arrogance at all. Now, if I said it?s ME that people should look to for the answers, THAT would be arrogant. You then wrote: ?If we are to believe you, then the only credible scriptures are those quoted by Wierwille in his writings.? No again. That?s NOT my position. First of all he does quote quite a lot in writing. Second, there was that 40 year period where Dr taught just about all the KJV, or encouraged reading it all. I got 27 years worth of reading my KJV, and I loved it all, even the passages Dr doesn?t teach. During those 27 years of massive KJV study, I neglected the more pure revelations in written form: the collaterals. This happened to us all, and that?s why Dr last words were to master PFAL like we HAD BEEN mastering KJV. By coming back to PFAL mastering it we can be better balanced in approaching the spiritual understanding of the WHOLE of God?s Word. [This message was edited by Mike on April 20, 2003 at 15:57.]

karmicdebt, Spare yourself and don?t look at this thread on days you don?t want to see it. alfakat, Like everyone who writes here, I think I?m right on what I post. Do you ever post on what you think is right? Hey! Join the club. I do have a clue how I come off. I even knew it before I started posting, thanks to you some. My posting motivation does not spring from a desire to be accepted by people. My motivation is to help people, by bringing out information that has been forgotten, or never known, or never put together properly by many people. This is what I do, primarily, is post info from the record. Then I also explain what I?m posting, and then I engage in all sorts of replys to the comments they get. My clue on how I?m coming off, in the category of ?convincing power? to most posters is that I?m coming off very poor. I don?t know about the reading non posters reactions much... yet. My clue on how I?m coming off, in the category of ?response attraction power? to most posters is that I?m coming off very well. Lots of people want to read and post replies. shazdancer, I?m still mentally composing to your post.

Hi Shaz, I?m thankful to you for engaging me. I don?t mind debate or disagreement, but ont thing that really gets me mad are those ?Conversation Constrictors? that the upper leadership became, and now dizzdog imitating their cowardice. At least you come up for more detailed discussion, and seem to promise to not end it prematurely. One of the DEEPEST problems I saw with leadership in the TVT was leadership loosing the ability to conduct friendly debate. First they lost conversation skills in not witnessing and letting the Joe believers bring in new people. Not encountering difficult ideas on the street, or in colleges, witnessing to people who had thought up some real klinker questions, was the first step in their conversational atrophy. The next step was being surrounded by salaaming grads all the time, they got used to conversations that were essentially one-way. Leader tells how it is, follower asks a small number of minor, non-challenging questions mixed in with a lot of agreement. Friendly disagreement withered in those atmospheres and our beloved leaders become the despots we that contributed more to the ruin of the family on the field than anything else. So, Shaz, I?m just grateful for this forum and those who aren?t afraid to get into the details. You brought up some important details, and I? will soon get to them.

dizzydog, Were you Corps or clergy? If not you certainly act like them, being done before the job is done. All the top leadership of the ministry employed your modus operndi of "I'm right, I?m done with discussions, and the subject is closed." Well Mr. Corps/Clergy, or imitator thereof, the subject is NOT closed. You can cut and run anytime you think run out of material. I?ll continue without you. You say you know Dr's teachings, well how about his LAST teaching? What did you know about Dr's final instructions to us and when did you know it? Did you blow off those final instructions from Dr where he said that LEADERS still needed to master PFAL in 1985, and that their past study was insufficient? Did you hit the books AGAIN as per Dr's instructions in 1985? Did you master them in 1979 as Dr told all Advanced Class grads they NEEDED to do? Did Dr's Last/Lost Teaching slip by you unnoticed? If you are clergy, you had plenty of chances to know about it. I think you blew it off, knowingly, and you now encourage others to disobey their father in the Word to keep you company and help you sear your conscience. If you are not clergy or ?upper? Corps, I suggest you stop imitating them and the institutions that ruined the ministry God gave us. Dr told us to master PFAL, and you can disobey all you want, but you wont be able to strut around as someone with a command of the subject. Your ignorance or forgetfulness will betray you. I bring Dr?s exact words to the table here, you brought your rusty memory. [This message was edited by Mike on April 20, 2003 at 11:16.]

dizzydog, One last item. I do think you're rusty on the material. I was too, until I came back to an active mastery. When I did, I started noticing that Dr does make various types of "Thus Saith The Lord" statements in the record. Now, five years later, my collection amounts to about 90 such statements. About 3 of them were posted in the past three months. That's 87 to go.

dizzydog, I just got to the place in your longer letter where you aren't going to discuss these things any more with me. That's all right. I don't mind it if you participate in absentia, while some of your points are discussed. Actually, many already have. I'm surprised that you reduced yourself to mere name calling at the end there.

dizzydog, Regarding an earlier post of yours, I can finally post something I?ve been wanting to say for months now. Finally the time is right, and you brought it up. NOT EVERYONE WINGED IT in their study of PFAL back in the 70?s and 80?s. Not TOO many, but some good number of grads did a pretty good job of mastering the class and the books back in the good old days. There were some in top leadership that had gotten quite a bit mastered, and there were plenty of others who mastered equally well. This thread?s topic has something to say to this. I believe we OLGs did delve into PFAL mastery, but only in the Natural/Factual side. We did develop a 5-senses understanding of the material, and it worked well for the time it was fitted. But something changed around 1982, and it was announced by Dr in several ways that year in the record he left us. At that time it became available to attain a SPIRITUAL mastery of the PFAL writings, and this is taught in the record by Dr, but it?s to an audience that was unreceptive and unable to hear it. As this new higher level of understanding was unfolded from 1982 to 1985, Dr?s top leadership turned off more and more to it. In his last teaching he tells top leadership point blank that the NEEDED to master PFAL, and it wasn?t from the 5-senses perspective that he was instructing us to master it. His audience of top leaders heard the teaching, and discounted it?s applicability to themselves, thinking they had already achieved the mastery Dr was calling for, when all along it was spiritual mastery Dr was referring to, and not the 5-senses mastery many already had. So, those of us who did our darn best to master PFAL, there?s still more to receive from it. We haven?t REALLY finished taking the class. There?s GREAT learning ahead!

alfakat, It's the material I draw from that's got you stumped. I'm not that smart; just the messenger. . dizzydog, Regarding contradictions between the Word of God and PFAL, I have posted MUCH, but will repeat some here. The presumption you have that actually have access to THE Word of God by way of ANY English texts is questionable to me. I see a situation where we don?t REALLY have access to the Word of God via the traditional methods. The originals were lost. For the English-only majority of us, all we have are the translators? and versionators? opinions, some right some wrong. Even when you appeal to the critical Greek texts, you still have documents that are ONLY as authoritative as the 5-senses calculations of the authors of these texts. The critical Greek texts are modern, the oldest from the 16the century. They are useful tools, but devoid of authority. The ancient fragments are at such variance with each other that the critical texts were deemed necessary. The first generations of copies were done by a reprobate church, having forsaken the apostle Paul, and a church that was under great persecution. The NT originals were not benefited by a Massorah fence; they are quite the opposite. When you speak of contradictions between the Word of God and PFAL, you are speaking with little precision. Let me explain. When you speak of a comparison between ?the Word of God? and the PFAL writings, the former is abstract, and the later is in print on paper. You don?t have a COPY of ?The Word of God.? It?s in your head. Or so you think. But you really don?t have an authoritative paper copy of the Word of God with which to read and compare PFAL to. No version is The Word Of God! No translation is The Word Of God! No modern scholarly compilation (critical Grk txts) is The Word Of God! No ancient miscopied fragment is The Word Of God! It was lost! All we have are questionable fragments, and scholarly reconstructions... ...until 1942-85 where God went to work with Dr to fix this situation. ********* You post is very long, and I only read part so far. It's late and I'm tired. I will read more, plus I have more material for a previous post of yours. I?m in no rush. I trust you aren?t either. This reply is to a repeating theme I noticed in a previous post and this latest. My main point: it?s not so simple a matter to compare PFAL to the Word of God, when we don?t really HAVE that Word, only approximations. Not only are the existing texts only approximate, but few of us have really even mastered them. Most of us winged it with both PFAL and our KJV?s.

Oakspear, I disagree, voluminously! No... Wait a minute... I disagree, strenuously! ...that WW's description of my beliefs is accurate. There are causal connections and ?therefore?s that he got wrong or skewed. I don?t stand behind what he says. PERIOD. He has some facts correct, but in toto it?s wrong. It?s a checkerboard of fact and falsehood.

Word Wolf and dizzydog, Let me assure you that the WordWolf analysis above is a collection of many facts alternating with fudge-facts. I?m not going to bother with the chore of trying to identify which alternating rungs on your ladder are correct and which incorrect. Whenever other posters represent me they do a lousy job, and you?re no exception WW. I?d rather speak for myself, thank you. WW, you never admitted up front that you didn?t want to have a better definition of "master" to help you master the material, but it was pretty obvious to me that's how you felt. So, was my guess of your motive correct? If not, how are you doing with the not-so-recursive definition? Are you over your trauma over recursive definitions? We might leave it as an exercise to the reader to decide which of your assertions were accurate as to how I?ve presented myself in the record here. As usual, I?m open to public discussion on the items of this little exercise, as well.

Dizzydog, The ?something to stand on? that I offer here is what Dr told us to master: the PFAL writings. This is a much more substantial foundation from which to see God's Word than the KJV or any other 5-senses scholarly attempts to reconstruct the Bible in our language and culture and time. God has provided us this BETTER something to stand on, and so I talk about it. It got lost so it needs to be talked about, or you need it to be talked up around you. I think this is not immediately easily entreated for you because you are rusty on the material. Yes, here at GS I talk ABOUT this Word which God taught Dr and Dr taught us, but sometimes here at GS I do bring in the actual words of God's Word. You have not seen all my posts, but there are many passages I?ve posted of the not-so-God-breathed KJV and many passages from the very-much-so-God-breathed PFAL writings. ...AND I am doing this more and more as it is appropriate. In my own private life I read God?s Word directly a lot, think it a lot, and apply it a lot. It?s fun.

Dizzydog, Thank you for your thoughtful post. I can understand your dismay. This situation has a rich set of details to be aware of, and jumping in at the end of this thread does give you a limited perspective of exactly what I?m talking about. It may sound like another gospel, but on closer inspection, it lines up with it. If anything other than Paul?s gospel is ?another? gospel, then I, II, And III John might be suspect. Ditto for Revelation, and Peter?s epistles. PFAL is in the same line as the Pauline epistles, just like Peter?s and John?s writings are are. God was allowed back then to address a few epistles to other than the usual audiences of ?Jew, Gentile and Church of God? with the Timothy, Titus, and Philemon letters. Others can read and learn from them too. It may be argued that sections of John?s Book of Revelation is addressed to certain groups. God is allowed to address some words primarily to one group if He wants to. He did. Others can read and learn if they are interested, but that?s a big if. There is a specific job to be done, and the PFAL writings are for those who want to do it. That job is the WOW program updated, improved, supercharged. The spiritual understanding of Word Over the World is called for here. The 5-senses meaning of WOW is God?s Word spreading across the surface of the planet earth. The spiritual meaning of WOW is our understanding rising from the earthly sense knowledge Bible understanding to the HIGHER spiritual understanding of God?s Word. Much more still needs to be posted before this subject will be totally understandable. Opening up the PFAL books again would be another must, if you want to see the integrity of what I?m presenting here. Dr?s dying last words to us, his final instructions to us, were to do this very thing, come back to PFAL and master it. The first time through we got a lot, but even more was placed in there by God to be utilized now. I find the second go around with PFAL much better than the first. I appreciate the tone of your post, and would like be able to discuss these things further someday. [This message was edited by Mike on April 19, 2003 at 2:51.] [This message was edited by Mike on April 19, 2003 at 2:53.]

Hey! I just want to clean up a few loose ends I am aware of, before posting on the topic again. There may be some I?m not aware of, so hit me with them now, ok? I want to move on with more high surety data from the record. ***One loose end is this. I don?t want to irritate anyone. Goey, I think people who have had difficult times with VPW in the past should avoid my threads. I don?t expect them to follow my suggestions in mastering PFAL. I think healing should come first for them. If I said something on another?s thread that?s truly offending to those dealing with sexual damage, then I will edit it out and admit it wasn?t best said in that place and/or in that way. I do make mistakes and I like correcting them. Abigail did this and we had a wonderful e-mail discussion about it. I admire her for it greatly, and told her. I?d like to imitate it where appropriate. I?m willing to strike something from the public record at their request, for these threads I visit. On MY thread topics I want to steer AWAY from issues sexual. I think it?s an emotional distraction to the topic I have to bring to the table. It?s wise for people who hurt in these areas (or who hurt in these areas WITH someone close to them) to avoid my threads if they feel on the less energetic side in the area of having total control of their emotions. If it?s not the best day or hour for them to steer AWAY from issues sexual, along with me, then I?d advise it?s better to wait until a more energetic day comes along. I HAVE advised a few of my old grad friends, who?ve never seen Grease Spot, to make sure they?re well rested before reading any of the forums here. I try to do that myself too. ***Another loose end is this, and I shouldn?t have to say this, so maybe I should SHOUT it, but all seriousness aside, I don?t think it?s fair to use red fonts. The false air of authority they carry when used on this board has our Western culture?s signature of authority, as used in Red Letter Editions of the Bible. Zixar, you almost convinced me I was wrong with my entire thesis when I hit your last post, and I almost threw in the towel! If it hadn?t been for the crash prone operating system I?m stuck with, blue screening me just in the Nick of time, I?d have been in Danger of loosing my faith. From now on, until this matter of the blasphemous misuse of over-convincing red fonts is settled, I?m draping my monitor with a red filtering blue cellophane shield. ***For the humor impaired, I am now placing my tongue back in it?s normal position, from it?s ?in cheek? position. ***Still no one has wanted to apply Pawtucket?s Principle to the ?Why Believe the Bible? question with me on these threads? I guarantee the end of those discussions for me would be saying I believe in the Bible, and that it?s the revealed Word of God. Those of you who DO believe in the Bible, I hope that at least you?re thinking about it. It?s healthy, because when bigger tests of your faith come along (bigger than me, MUCH bigger than me) you?ll be MUCH better prepared for them. And double that for OLGs. As a student of science and the history of science I have seen other people say things similar to Pawtucket?s Principle. That?s why I got so excited when he first said it. Very similar things were said by Einstein about the way he discovered relativity AND said by Einstein when explaining his theory to early critics who couldn?t buy it because it was so VERY extremely against the most near and dear things in the tradition of modern science, then already a few hundred years old. ***Speaking of science... Dr Diazbro, you addressed my only visiting post on another thread, and for the simplicity of thread minimization I?d like to answer you briefly here. When I said the ?genome expresses itself,? I lumped into that one word ?expresses? all the notion of nature and nurture, including all learning. I was being purposely brief and not over technical. It wasn?t intended to be a scientific statement. I was emphasizing the NATURAL/FACTUAL side of the equation, even though that was not the thread topic where I was visiting. It?s been on my mind, you see. My use of ?genome? was a figure of speech where I epitomized the natural/factual approach by using scientific sounding words. Science is the epitome of the 5-senses approach to truths. It works well with trivial truths, but lousy with the big Truths in the SPIRITUAL/TRUE category ......When I used the phrase ?bell curve? it may have hit some Politically Correct buttons I didn?t intend at all. Ten or fifteen years ago a book with that title cause a big stir. I never read it, but I read a lot ABOUT the stir it caused on academic campuses around the world. My exposure to the phrase ?bell curve? goes back many years before that controversial book was published, back to simple statistics mathematics. I stopped tracking how the phrase ?bell curve? is reacted to by the university crowd in recent years. For at least three years back in the 90?s the phrase ?bell curve? was a PC taboo. Campus protocol around those far removed from statistics classes required a painful facial expression if it had to be enunciated. My use of the phrase was it?s usage twenty years prior to that 90?s trend............. If you want to discuss this more, maybe e-mail would be best because it?s far from topic. Or maybe we could use the private topic option. I haven?t learned that yet. ***So, that?s what I wanted to say before resuming the thread topic. The sun is almost out here, so I?m off to work for a while. Any loose ends are welcome. I tried to answer most posts, but I?m sure some slipped by me.

Steve!, "Mike - are you that egotistical as to think that you have followers?" No. I was just wondering. You relieved my worries! Thanks!!!

Good question Priate. I've wondered a related question too. If I do my "mastering PFAL" posts ON ANOTHER WEBSITE, is it still irritating? IN other words, would a person who sees it their mission from God to stop me here at GS, feel towards me that "this internet aint big enough for the both of us" ?

Goey, I disagree with your assessment of the cause, when you say ?with the axe that caused the wound.? I see the cause as NOT the books. When you say I?m ?telling the victims that the only way to heal is to master these words? you are getting it wrong. I?m telling certain things to OLGs who are ready to do the work. A still hurting victim needs other things, different things, but few seem to be able to supply them, or quickly supply them. After a wave or two of OLGs start coming back to PFAL and mastering, the good results they get will inspire others to join in. I expect the still hurting victims to be largely healed at that time. Meanwhile I?m willing to help them with a totally different message than ?master these words,? and not a public one either. I?ve offered this before. I don?t think those very difficult pains are healed in intensity of public debates. They are better healed in calm peaceful places.

Sirguessalot, You gave us all a belly laugh, me included. You?re right on some accounts. The scene you described is a good cartoon of the not so well placed things I?ve posted, but omits the home runs I know I?ve hit. Daddy?s keeping score, so don?t ask me. There?s one other fine tuning I?d do to make it a more accurate cartoon, one that better describes the contextual scene. Place that whole scene in the interior of my own rented house, in a large city that invited me in, when other cities had tarred and feathered me out. This GreaseSpot City is the only free speech oriented city in the nation of grads. And free speech has been allowed MUCH farther than in any other grad cities could ever feel comfortable with. The way this freedom is accomplished (without us physically injuring each other) is the way the infrastructure of GreaseSpot City is set up. We are able to dare and strain the temper limits of all hearers here, because of the physical separation the infrastructure imposes. The only way we can interact is through cyberspace visits to the Cafe, which is the tables of contents of all the forums. The thread name is the invitation to come and cybervisit at originator?s rented house, their ?own? thread. Paw?s the landlord and we pay him respect. So the healing scene you depicted is in my rented house, this thread. You all line up in the waiting room and scream for appointments, barging in on treatment rooms for others, and I try to help each one by one. I?m not trying to force my ?act? on anyone in their own homes. I may visit on invitation posted on the Cafe Tables... of contents, but I try to be as polite as possible and leave if it doesn?t work out. Meanwhile back in my home, my clinic, once in a while I get one right, and that might be a future panel in your TuneVille version of GreaseSpot City and it?s most notorious Cafe where the projectile food, which comes off the plates and out of both holes, sometimes flies as far as other smaller distant grad cities, both cyber and pew. . . .

alfakat, When we first took PFAL we saw as you described. It was the seed of Christ in us that was emphasized in our understanding. This thread is to alert grads that ALSO in the PFAL teaching is the active, present, relationship with the spiritually present Christ. We can see this in the PFAL class by getting familiar with this OFTEN repeated teaching of "Christ Formed In You" and the minute differences in Dr?s vocabulary words when dealing with the two realms. In the class he did teach the spiritual presence, the active, present, relationship with the spiritually present Christ, but we didn?t see it there...yet. There are a few more items I will soon post that will fit into this situation I?ve just described. If you don?t see it all yet, hang in there. There?s more data coming.

karmicdebt, The feelings of hurt I see people expressing cause me to want to help. It hurts me to see people I care about hurting. I have found healing in an area you find surprising and negative. I think if you calm down about it you'll see it heals for you too. If you disagree with me about this I will accept it, but I'll still make it available for others, and for you if you change your mind in the future.

Alfakat, You wrote: ?If JC is absent, per PFAL, how is it you say he's here?? You answer that, I'll tell you what I see in the record in the bible, the container of THE Word of God--fair enough???? PFAL talks about him being absent physically. I mentioned that he is present, spiritually. See how important it is to keep the two realms in mind and clearly? Your turn.

Exy, If we steer the conversation towards the good we were taught, then we can get healed of the hurts. It worked for me, but it took time. Just give it a try here on this thread. There are plenty of other threads where other topics are totally covered. I'm just trying to steer it into areas that have NOT been covered. Areas where the greatest healing is.

Mj, He's my big brother, and I don't mean that in an Orwellian sense.

It?s obviously the case that many of you (NOT all) are watching and waiting, asking me questions and goading me, and all to one purpose: to catch me in something that you can have a fit about. Not everyone is like this, but there?s a gang mentality in enough to set the atmosphere. (If the shoe fits wear it, if not be glad.) If people?s buttons get pushed on this thread it?s because they come here to this thread to GET them pushed. If they don?t get pushed right away, they ask coy questions of me until there?s something in one of my answers to blow up about. It?s a sensational rush to get all angry at Mike. If not me, then the sought after fit of anger will have to be sought elsewhere. (If the shoe fits... It?s your religion, those of you who are preoccupied with conjuring up a negative image of VPW very regularly, nearly every on-line hour. In every thread, no matter how far removed from TWI,VPW,TVT,or PFAL, no matter how remote the subject, if you can make a negative association from it to THE big ultimate topic here (negativity on VPW or VPW related), then you get special rewards from the congregation. I see a religion here; if the shoe fits, wear it, if not be glad. I see a religion here, and the god is vpw, or the image of him that is currently held in mind. It?s a religion where the ultimate inner quality is hate, and to move this hate to others. Instead of praise, it?s cursing, and the more eloquent the cursing, the greater a call of ?Helleluia? from the choir. It?s a negative praise, worship in reverse. (If the shoe fits... I choose different. I thank the True God for being able to work with me, a sinner, and He works with other sinners, too. Even VPW. I?ll bet that if we were to poll ALL the grads of PFAL, the vast majority would have more to thank God about than negative memories. I urge that we seek ways to forget the past unpleasantness, from mild to traumatic, and focus on him... the perfect one... On this thread lets talk about Jesus Christ more, ok?

mj412, Let's talk some untwisted scripture on Jesus Christ, ok? I long to get back to that relationship with Jesus Christ that was being discussed a page or so ago?