Mike

WordWolf, Concerning (E) I have often posted how I think the others who Dr learned from had ALSO gotten revelations or partial revelations. Dr had to get revelation as to WHICH of these men he should go to, and then he had to get revelation as to which things to believe and which to reject from each one. I?ve also seen it?s the case that Dr had to fine tune texts such as these, and that had to involve revelation. As for the books he burned, I don?t know when that happened, but I think it was around 1942. The others he learned from was from personal visits, and these were well after 1942. There is a good account of this by Dr and is posted at: http://www.gscafe.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc...42&m=6816064602 ************** Item (F) bothers me. I?ve said many thing about what it means to master. It?s not nearly the undefined term you insist on. It?s a learn-as-you-do thing. Start by reading. Read a lot, read it all. As you read God will help you organize a way to get it better every day. Dr used the term ?ALMOST memorize? regarding master. It?s only in the last 5 years that I decided to reject all other authors as centers of reference and focus exclusively on PFAL. This is a personal choice, and I violate it at will. When I consider that I was more than a decade late in starting my PFAL mastery project, then I get re-motivated to exclude all else. HECK! I still read a lot here at Grease Spot!

dizzydog, I have seen that many of us have used a double standard regarding mastery levels. The levels we would work our KJVs was much more rigorous that the way we ?mastered? PFAL. None of us worked the actual PFAL text very carefully like we worked the KJV text. What we DID do is pick up a few tools and techniques from PFAL and then APPLY them to KJV and other texts. I?m not talking about a high UTILIZATION of PFAL principles here. I don?t doubt that you utilized PFAL tools and techniques a lot. I?m talking about a high level of examining the PFAL text itself with PFAL tools and techniques. When we come back to read, absorb, and obey the actual text of PFAL we will see MUCH greater treasures than we did the first time we read and utilized PFAL. I?m very glad you did spend years working PFAL. This means that you?ll more quickly see the hidden treasures contained within these writings when you come back and read with the special kind of meekness I am suggesting. I maintain that no matter how well you read and studied PFAL in the past, and no matter how well you study other Biblical materials, and no matter how well you work your personal relationship with God, there is going to STILL be something fundamentally missing if you don?t come back and work PFAL. God has invested something unique in PFAL and you can?t find it anywhere else. That?s what I fully believe from what I?ve seen in 5 years of such study.

WordWolf, Concerning the 1942 promise, are you talking about that thing where it was discussed if the snow physically happened or was it a vision? I thought I answered "I don't know" to that one. I KNOW I didn't care what the answer was. Is this what you meant by item (D) above?

WordWolf, I read your recent post and then went back to your original inventory of summaries of my stated positions, up near the top of this page. I?m no where near done working on these two long posts, but here is the beginning. I must commend your itemization thoroughness in the earlier post. You collected a lot of detail. Unfortunately, each item is both over-abbreviated and spun wrong, but otherwise that was a good job. I did notice the each category was missing a last item. To each I?d add this: ?Feels it?s been handled sufficiently already? As to Steve?s question, I am using my aloofness to motivate others to find and report citings of the Physical/Spiritual dichotomy in Dr?s writings. Unfortunately my clever ploy seems t not be working. Maybe there are a few non-posting readers finding a few, though. I?m making progress in digitizing my notes and collecting text samples for posting. Soon I?ll post them and we?ll see if Steve can find his answer in the data. I?m still not sure if Steve?s question is meaningful. While we?re waiting for my notes to be completed, can you, WordWolf, tell me why YOU want to see Steve?s question answered? Do you think such an answer would be useful in some other area? Or do you think there is no answer, and Dr was just printing nonsense? Do you have even a tiny inkling about what Dr was getting at on those pages of the Blue Book (22-24) or do you too think Steve?s answer is necessary to understand those Blue Book pages. You could set the example of a good internet debater and answer all my questions above. The more thorough your supplied answers are, the more you?ll make me squirm in my hotseat over me not supplying Steve?s answer.

dizzydog, You wrote: ?Stop assuming I haven't followed Dr's directions.? Again, it?s not my assumption, it?s an complex observation. When you see Dr?s specifications as to what HE means by ?master? then you will see that you have only partially done what he said to do in his last teaching. I?ve posted some of those specifications in Dr?s vocabulary here, and some can be found at the URL I posted above. Here is one that?s short enough to post again. 1979 Advanced Class segment #5: I have set for our people, and it's set in the book on "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today," and people, when you reach the Advanced Class, you ought to be able almost to quote this line for line. You should have mastered this book by the time you get to the Advanced Class. If you haven't, you better get busy and do it - work it to where you understand the Word of God in every facet, in every way of it's utilization regarding the holy spirit field - all of them, you must know this book, in and out. But I've discovered as I've worked among my people, and even all the grads of the Advanced Class, there still are areas where we got to push ourselves. So, now I AM ASSUMING that you were an Advanced Class grad in 1979, and Dr sez ALL AC grads, ?even all the grads of the Advanced Class, there still are areas where we got to push ourselves.? It?s only a small assumption on my part that since 1979 you haven?t done the above with RHST. It?s only a small assumption on my part that you?ve never done a word study in any of Dr?s books like we were taught to do them in the KJV. There?s no concordance available yet on Dr?s books, but someone obeying Dr?s final commands in detail should be able to find a bunch of things manually. I?ve been doing that for five years now on occasion, with a few words. In ?How the Word Words? (URL above) Dr sez word studies in his books and magazine articles are available to do. I?m paraphrasing here. See if you can find the exact text. It?s only a short ?Our Times? editorial. There were no PFAL mastery programs set up by leadership after Dr?s final instructions were issued, only ?review the basics? exercises from time to time. No one has REALLY mastered PFAL like Dr told us to do in his dying last/lost words. If you or anyone you know think you came close, and you still retain what you?ve mastered (recently is best) then I?d like to compare notes with you and learn from your mastery efforts too. Anyone here who thinks they came close to obeying Dr?s final instructions AFTER he issued them (no fair counting mastery before) THEN I want to learn from you. . . P.S. THe reason I say no "fair counting mastery before" is because in his last teaching Dr was telling his TOP leadership first, and every born again believer as well, that their present (1985) state of mastery was not good enough. He also said the same thing in his last Emporia teaching (posted here) and his last Limb Meeting.

dizzydog You wrote: ?My approval comes from God and him alone, not you Mike.? Yes, and you stand approved before Him as you rightly divide His Word. As a Body, we can help each other rightly divide His Word. As far as how well I document EXACTLY what Dr said versus MY paraphrasing, you may be basing your judgement on more recent posts of mine. Before you came I posted many of his exact words, but they?re scattered all over GS. I just recently found out how easy it is to post an active URL here, so I may collect together a table of contents of the pages these lengthy quotes of Dr?s are on. Dr did indeed say much on our study habits, and if any of it was by revelation, I'd value them highly. One of his later magazine articles was totally devoted to a highly detailed suggested study plan. Besides that one article, there are many more things he said. In another set of magazine articles titled ?Masters of the Word? and ?How the Word Works? (May/June 1979) he gets into less specific but deeper suggestions. I posted both of those articles with extensive commentary on ?News Flash For Older Grads...? page 4 at: http://www.gscafe.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc...2722#1526062722 ********* You also wrote: ?I just listened to a tape last night on righteousness that VPW did in the late 70's, I found it very enlightening as I have been studying righteousness recently, including an extensive study from the collaterals and Kenyon.? I thank God for the gift of righteousness. Recognizing all the reality of this gift may take some effort. I thank God for the good Bible aids we have had over the centuries, and teachers like Kenyon and many more. I also thank God that He intervened in a way with Dr?s printed Bible aids that is bigger than anything He was able to do for 2000 years. I call PFAL a God-breathed Bible aid. I?m MORE thankful for this, and now spend much more time with it. You lastly wrote: ?I don't disagree with PFAL I disagree with your conclusions about PFAL.? I can?t blame you and I don?t mind. I can suggest that if you do what DOCTOR said to do, you?ll be blessed more than you can guess now.

rascal, In the years to come we?ll see if your destructive work stands or if my work stands. We will stand before a man who is God?s appointed judge. Some will be ashamed of their work. Some will be rewarded.

mj412, Cool! That's right on topic, "conFORMity to the image of Christ" and "Christ FORMED in you." Where did Blakely write that? On GreaseSpot? I?d like to check deeper into the source of your quote. It helps illuminate the subject further. ****** Now, going a step further in this thread?s topic: I've seen that many people confuse this "Christ formed" in the soul, in the mind category, in the Natural/Factual Realm, ... they confuse it with ?Christ in you the HOPE of glory? or ?Christ CREATED in? which is pneuma hagion, holy spirit and is in the Spiritual/True Realm. This is what this thread was started for! Col. 1:27 - Christ Created In = Spirit Realm affected, mind not affected Gal. 4:19 - Christ Formed Within = Physical Realm affected, mind totally involved The place where the ministry went down in the mid 80?s is where we OLGs didn?t graduate our focus from the Col.1 ? ?Christ Created In? to the Gal.4:19 ?Christ Formed Within? We OLGs became the many villians who took down the ministry because we didn?t become the Jesus Christ men and women the ?Love Way? teaches, and because we didn?t become the men and women with Christ formed within that ?Christ Formed In You? teaches. It?s not too late to become the Word.

karmicdebt, I'm not trying to convince. I'm trying to present lost data. I am succeeding.

Lifted Up, I too have noticed the substance in dizzydog's posts, while not entirely agreeing with him. That's why I've been steering more of my limited time in his direction lately.

alfakat, You wrote: ?You seem to think secret knowledge is the door to the kingdom, not the atoning work of Christ--which covers it all...? No, I don?t think or say that. The atoning work of Christ is a free gift. God wants two things for us: saved & knowledge of the truth. The atoning covers the saved, rescued, eternal life part. Many extra rewards are due to our own works. Knowledge of the truth and HOW MUCH truth depends on hunger and work. How much power depends on how much attitude of service and other things. Mastering PFAL allows OLGs to partake in a job of service. It means we can serve better. Dr?s last teaching was ?The Joy of Serving? and the how of serving in that teaching is master PFAL. Besides, even if I were making the mistake you think I?m making, when one of my meeker readers started mastering PFAL, my error would be quickly straightened out. ***** You then accused... er... I mean wrote: ?Who or whom do you think you glorify, Mike?? Others hear have addressed that question far more capably and patiently than I... I find you deceived and a deceiver...? I?m not giving glory to myself, and not to Dr. I?m giving glory to the REAL (spiritual) Author of PFAL Who is God Almighty, the Father of Our Boss, the lord Jesus Christ and it?s in his name I write.

Steve, I have several to post, but I'm waiting to see if you or anyone else finds some. If anyone finds one that I have not yet seen, then I can count that one as another "find" and add it to my list.

rascal, All you have is tired old complaints and criticisms. Why don't you do something constructive? Do you have light to build up with? If so, use it.

Goey, Dr's definition of "Bible" is not the same as the common definition. There are some several subtleties in how Dr can use that word. The common definition of ?Bible? is ?That which you are shown in a bookstore when you ask to see the Bibles.? In segment 16 of the class Dr specifically says that HIS definition is NOT like the common definition. "And in this class on Power For Abundant Living, when I refer to The Word Of God I may hold the King James Version or I may hold some other version and point to it; I do not mean that version. I mean that Word of God which was originally given when holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." Several minutes before that he had said this about common bookstore bought Bibles: "Now I said that no translation, no translation, let alone a version, no translation may properly be called The Word Of God..." A couple minutes before that he had said this: "No translation, no translation, and I want you to listen very carefully; for no translation, and by the way that's all we have today at best are translations. No translation may properly be called The Word Of God... ...no translation!" For beginning students the KJV was a fairly close approximation to what Dr meant when he said ?Word of God? or ?Bible.? He let us think that in the early stages, and then when we grew more he showed us more and more to master the PFAL writings. You?re focusing on the teachings of Dr addressed to beginning students, with KJV in focus. Dr?s last teaching was addressed most specifically to upper leadership with PFAL in focus.

dizzydog, I don?t blame you for not trusting me. You?re right, about ?The first time I ever questioned your conclusions you made some very personal and disrespectful comments about me and about my regard for God's Word, and those who taught it to me VPW included. You knew nothing about me.? I did come on strong and fierce with you, but you may not have noticed that you popped at a particularly fierce point in an extended argument. I was swinging hard at some who deserved it, and suddenly you walked in. Correct me if my memory is wrong, but not only was your entrance abrupt, but you mentioned up front that you were away from GS for a while, and hadn?t read anything on that particular thread, and that you hadn?t read any of my other posts. Then, from that admitted stance of not having collected even a smattering of the facts, you proceeded to make judgements. It SEEMED to me that you were executing a page from the Corpse Leadership Handbook in the chapter on how to act as if your just received revelation, without ever mentioning it. So, with the fierce context you walked into, and with the gall and disrespect I perceivd towards me and my carefully placed posts numbering well past 700 at the time, you made your judgement on a guts feel or maybe revelation. I couldn?t let that stand and let you have it. Since then, I?ve noticed that you don?t have that repeating troll like way as Steve goads me. I try to forget the disrespect I seemed to see you fling my way at your entrance, and that?s easy to do when you post something substantive. You do, so I don?t mind apologizing about our opening fisticuffs. I trust I didn?t draw blood. Nor did you of me. **** You then wrote: ?In short, why should I listen to or read what you have to say about PFAL when I can read it for myself?? You shouldn?t. You should give MAXIMUM respect and reading time to PFAL, and minimal to me in both categories. Dr should have earned your respect. There?s no way I have done that. I admit that. What I HAVE done is get your attention. Dr?s final instructions were totally ignored. Dr?s final instructions are fun to follow. PFAL is a gold mine, even richer the second time around. **** You then wrote: ?And I will study it as I always have. As well as Bullinger, Kenyon and many others, always with the scriptures open on the same desk.? I don?t want to prescribe personal study habits. It does seem that Dr has something to say about them, though. He said some things in the record that I can post. IF it?s the case that God gave Dr revelation in those dying last words, then we are 17 years late in exciting that PFAL mastery that's twice insisted upon in that last teaching. Such a situation might very well deserve a shift in study habits to make up for lost time. It looks to me that Dr?s final instructions would demand that we give some larger chunk of our study time to PFAL. The things we?ve been studying a lot these last 17 years might deserve a lower priority IF IT?S THE CASE that God gave revelation to Dr in that last teaching. After seeing the level of wisdom of all Dr?s students, I?ve decided to give Dr. Wierwille, as my teacher, top respect. He earned it.

Garth, I see you haven't lost your delicate sense of humor.

dizzydog, I can respect most of what you wrote, and am especially thankful for your sharp words on internet forums and it?s limits. That was why I immediately responded with the offer to make it more personal by phone or in person. I can even respect you not buying my pitch. Since I am not done presenting the PFAL data, and since I have had only a very limited chance to earn your respect, I can?t blame you for not being ready to take ME that seriously. But Dr. Wierwille is someone who you CAN take seriously. I do think that as we simply obey Dr?s final instructions and master the materials (the exact definition of which will clarify with time), THEN the other things I have been saying will fit better. Even when I finish presenting my case, if those listening to my presentation don?t follow Dr?s final instructions and have those books open much, then even my finished case will NOT convince. The real convincing is when people come back to PFAL see that God is with them in coming back to feed from what He wrought in Dr?s written ministry.

Goey, You wrote: ?Yes some got such a skewed version of it that they were were made leaders by VPW himself. Seems like VP must have missed that, huh?? VPW often said (once on tape that I know of) that the people he put into top positions were not put there because they were qualified, but because they were the best God had. He often said this of himself even, and that the whole ministry was by grace, not merit. God often had a limited number of flawed men He could install as leaders: King Saul and Balaam are two extreme examples discussed here before, among Kings David, Solomon and the apostle Judas. All God selected; all got it screwed up royally. You and I?d have done the same in one category or another had we been tapped to serve God?s people. Maybe we did. **** You then wrote: ?If VPW got the great commission and God indeed was the author of PFAL then VPW would have shouted it from the rooftops. He did not. Why would he resort to hints only to be understood by you some 60 years later?? He shouted it from ?The New, Dynamic Church? rooftop on pages 34 and 116. And then we forgot it. **** You then wrote: ?You have not built a good or believable case for mastering PFAL.? I?m not done yet. . .

Steve, You hit on a good thing when you went back and read my posts better. You discovered that Christ FORMED within is different than Christ CREATED in you. I've been trying to get many to see this difference. So, now that you've seen it, take a breather before condemning it. You'll see that this Christ formed within is the NEW MAN we have always heard about. Please go back and re-read Dr's teaching on "Christ Formed In You." THAT'S where I got my info from. It?s on page 6 of this thread, about one quarter down the page, posted April 13, 2003 13:13. http://www.gscafe.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc...2192#5746062192 Most people who heard this teaching thought it was about ?Christ in you the hope of glory.? THAT?S just the beginning. Christ FORMED in you is an advanced stage of the renewed mind. It?s in the SOUL category, and is NOT the same as pheuma hagion. ************ As far as your question goes, I've been trying all along to get you to realize the value of checking out ALL the places where Dr brings up this dichotomy and ALL the places where Dr brings up the kingdom hierarchy. THEN and ONLY then can we proceed to see if your question makes sense, and then possibly find an answer that satisfies you. I have hardly paid much attention to your question because I recognize it as premature. We need to get ALL those passages on the table before I'll bother much with some nit picky question. Your question is OBVIOUSLY designed to tear down, so I have little respect for it. When you show respect for the ENTIRE collection of passages Dr issued on this subject, then I'll respect your question. Until then, it's like a nasty mosquito begging to be smacked. I prefer to remain on target as I see it. So, Steve, have you found any of those additional passages? I don't know if my collection is complete, but I do know that if your REALLY wanted to know the answer to my question, then my FIRST mention of additional passages would have gotten your maximum attention. It got minimal. So did my second mention; so did the third. So, answer me this: what are you going to do with the answer, an answer that satisfys you? Drop your present line of research and start mastering PFAL? Do you deny your question is designed to tear down confidence in what Dr wrote? Why do you want me to answer a question designed to hurt others? See, Steve, I can ask questions too. [This message was edited by Mike on June 05, 2003 at 11:53.] [This message was edited by Mike on June 05, 2003 at 14:31.]

Thanks Dan, I'm for a breather. As for a lone website, that would miss my point. I see HERE a lack of awareness of many details of what happened to us all. I want to address that lack where it occurs. THIS is where PFAL grads congregate to talk. If I have to I'd do it, but this is where my family of grads meets and talks. There's no other place like this. Thanks Oakspear, Good logic. I don't mind challenges to what I say. I wish I had the time to deal with all of them. One at a time. But not to get bogged down and miss data posting time.

I've heard this all before here. I have no hatred to people here, I only hate the error that's torn up our family. I?ve gone over all of your objections to my doctrine for 5 years before posting here. I simply maintain to you folks that you never really finished taking the class. You got a skewed version of it, and missed mountains of truth. I?ll just keep posting the evidence. Soon I?ll be posting the Natural/Spiritual page references and some samples of the hotter texts. It?s because I love you folks and want to see you all healed and SOON that I post these things we ALL missed. I simply offer it as an alternative healing method to the Grease Spot managerie of methods. My method is simple: Master PFAL in it?s pure book form to straighten out all the many twisted TVTs you all are stuck in, broken cicterns that can hold no water. The objections to my method are myriad, and require much time and writing to unravel. Fine, I can discuss lots of details as I post my data. What I won?t tolerate is TWIish bully tactics like Steve and Mark recently displayed, with ds discernment as the ultimate weapon. I faced down lots of clergy and Corps henchmen who were so logic starved they had to resort to intimidation techniques like you guys just tried on me. Save it. I?ve been through those hysterics many times. Not only are you vying for the Craig Clone Awards, but you?ve all resorted to the EXACT same techniques trinitarians would resort to on me in the 1970?s, when I?d come up with verses they could answer. You're pitiful! Since the early 70?s I?ve been through the being prayed for AT LEAST 20 time! Devil spirits diagnosed 10 times. Pretty soon one of you spiritual cowboys are going to do a razzle dazzle Six Gun twirling act: the BORN OF THE WRONG SEED act! Who will be the first to try THAT one? You amateurs dismay me. Go start your own threads with your own solutions. I?ll just continue posting my solutions here. I?ve got a backlog of HUNDREDS of posts from all you folks to still answer, so feel free to just go your own way, and I?ll continue posting my way here. If I have to I?ll resort to my James Bond hi tech Dodge Gadgetry keeping one step ahead of your comic book spiritual attacks. Chick Tracts could use a few writers like you. **************************** Now where WAS I before the exorcists started jumping up and down and burning incense? Oh yeah, we were discussing if my message is contradicting what Dr said. My contention is that you all have a dim memory of what Dr said, and a deficient memory of EXACTLY what Dr said. Just to refresh those stagnant memories, lets look at something we all once not only believed, but dedicated our lives to. These are all the three appearances of I Thess 2:13 in the PFAL class. In all three Dr makes a link between the his own authority to teach the Word, and Paul's authority to teach the Word as mentioned in I Thess 2:13. Plus, in two of these three links between Dr's authority and Paul's authority, the PFAL class is specifically mentioned as Dr's Paul-like teaching. These quotes are from the film class soundtrack: ********************************************** Session 12 And, in my classes on Power For Abundant Living, nobody ever gets missed, because, if you're in this class, you've heard the Word, you've believed God's Word, God is always faithful. And nobody ever misses, if you'll do exactly what I tell you to do, right down to the minute detail. It's like, in I Thessalonians, chapter 2, verse 13. Remember where the Apostle Paul said: "I thank my God, that, when you received the Word of God which you heard of us, you received it not as the word of man, but as it is in truth, the Word of God." Now, if you'll be as honest with God as that Word of God says, you too can walk into the greatness of the manifestation of the power of God. But, if you think this is just V.P. Wierwille talking, you'll never get it. But if you know that what I am saying -- it's V.P. Wierwille saying it, but these are words which the Holy Ghost has spoken and is utilizing and speaking to you through my ministry and my life, then you too will manifest forth the greatness of the power of God. **************************************************************** Segment. 11 You see very few of us have gone back to the Word, we have gone back to men. And we have said well what did Kant say, what did Plato say, what did Aristotle say, what did this theologian say, what did this man say, what did this other person say? Class, back to the Word! The Word and nothing but the Word! For it's this Word which is the Will of God! That's right, bless your heart. Look at I Thessalonians, I Thessalonians chapter two; Acts, Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, I Thessalonians; the same trouble tonight I had before, this India paper is just a little to thin to find all these scriptures so quickly; but they're in here. I Thessalonians 2:13 listen to this: For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us,... You see they received the Word of God which they heard of Paul it was Paul's vocabulary but what he was speaking was God's Word. But to the senses ears the people could have said, "well that's Paul talking, that's just Paul, yeah that's just Paul." Like they say, "oh, that's just Dr. Wierwille, yeah..." I've heard that, no, no, no. I Thessalonians 2:13: ...thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually [which effectually] worketh also in you that [do one thing--go to church every Sunday morning, sit in the front pew and shout glory hallelujah, believe in all the social action programs; no a thousand times no. Works effectually in those who do one thing. What?] believe [believe]. **************************************************************** Segment 13 Let me show you something from I Thessalonians two thirteen, listen to this: I Thessalonians 2:13: For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. You know, you may have the Word of God, you may know the Word of God but it does not work effectually in people. It does not work effectively with power until we do one thing. Believe. You believe that Word and lo and behold you speak that Word and it produces the same results today that it has produced at any time in the history of civilization since that Word has been given. You know, the Bible says that we are to abide in the Word. We are to abide in the Word and we're to let this Word abide in you. To the end that we abide in the Word this Word takes the Master's place in our lives through our renewed mind and then it becomes our vocabulary but it is God's Word. We speak, this is our vocabulary, we speak the Word but as we speak the Word it is God's Word. "I thank my God that when ye received the Word which ye heard of us ye received it not as the word of man," sounds like it, "but as the Word of God which worketh effectually in those that believe." This Word of God cannot be broken, that's right. Just cannot be broken, not one iota of it can be broken, for what God promised He is not only able but willing to perform and that whole Word fits like a hand in a glove. You see it is this Word of God that really thrills a man. In Luke chapter twenty-four. Matthew, Mark, Luke, let me just check this with you. Luke twenty-four listen to verse thirty-two: Luke 24:32: And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures? This was speaking about Jesus on the road to Emmaus after the resurrection as he spoke to these men. He opened unto them the scriptures. You see how their hearts thrilled, how their hearts burned within them because he opened to them the scriptures. I've never seen a man or a woman or a boy or a girl in these classes on Power for Abundant Living whose soul just has not thrilled with an effervescence and with an abundance and with a glow when this Word of God started to unfold, started to fit like a hand in a glove. It made sense and how their hearts burned within them. How they thrilled at the greatness of God's Word! ************************************************************ This brings the count to about 5 or 6. I mentioned a few times I?ve found about 90 ?Thus saith the Lord statements? of Dr?s that he put into the record. I count this set of passages as three. There?s 85 to go. Most are pretty subtle. Either we never heard them, or we gradually got talked out of them. We all heard these words many times. [This message was edited by Mike on June 05, 2003 at 2:32.]

Mark or Steve, We can meet on the phone or in person anytime. I?m not a devil nor do I have one. You are displaying fear. You?re afraid to do what Dr said to do. Change the subject all you want. Attack the messenger all you want. The message is of God. P.S. Mark, Don't .... with the name of Jesus Christ that way. Take your phoney command and shuve it~!

dizzydog, You can't go into a store or library and put "The Scriptures" into your hands, ESPECIALLY if you aren't fluent in Aramaic of Greek. ?The Scriptures,? as taught in PFAL, are an abstract entity. The originals have been lost. What we buy in stores or read in libraries or are taught in a class are APPROXIMATIONS. In some situations they will do us well, in others not. I am very much bound to recognize an authority bigger than me: the PFAL writings. In every specific practical case, the same bounds you see in your ?authoritative? scriptures, I see in PFAL or the KJV verses printed within. I cannot say anything I want; I?m bound to what is printed in PFAL, which is in most cases identical to KJV Bibles. I am no longer bound to any theologians or scholars! Hallelujah! What I am endeavoring to do here is NOT the ?same thing the adversary has attempted to do since the fall of man. Steal, kill and destroy God's Word. Get people to doubt God's Word and subsequently believe it is no longer valid.? Just the opposite, I?m saying that the small doubts that should have plagued every PFAL grad scholar (or near scholar) for decades are now gone. God has not only given us an authoritative reissued set of His Words, but He ALSO has, from within these inspired PFAL writings, verified that the Biblical remnants we have had handed down to us WERE INDEED all along God?s perfect Word, before being cut up with men?s knives and thrown into the fire for 2000 years. You seem bound to a theology that says God is forbidden to get anything in writing when it comes to these modern centuries. Your dogma cannot tolerate God?s intervention to reissue any or all of His Word. Your dogma will not allow God to inspire perfect writing, even to assist His children as they try to sort through which theologians or scholars they can trust THIS decade to be their necessary middlemen to the ancient scriptures. Dr wrote of these attempts by men to forbid God such license in the Introduction to the Appendices in RHST. Look closely because it?s deliberately ambivalent as to whether Dr is referring to PFAL as ?Scripture? or the traditional Bible : ?If we believe that throughout the Scriptures we have the words of God and not of man, many difficulties will disappear. We must allow the Divine Author the rights and privileges claimed and operated by every human author?that He may quote, adapt, or repeat in varied forms His own previously written or spoken words. God could have used other forms had He chosen to do so, but it has pleased Him to repeat His own word or words, introducing them in different contexts, with new applica- tions and connotations. Thus it obligates us to study the context, the para- graph, and the section where the same word appears, and where it was used previously, to see if it is used in a different sense or not.? If you simply admit that there are SOME unknowns, difficulties, and uncertainties in the hand-me-down scriptures (and your Wide Margin notes will testify to this), then you may allow yourself to try on for fit a solution where God makes a major move in 1942 to correct what scholars have not been able to correct. If you are able to temporarily don this set of beliefs, and do as Dr suggests and master PFAL, then many difficulties will disappear. If we believe that throughout the PFAL writings we have the words of God and not of man, many difficulties will disappear. . . . [This message was edited by Mike on June 04, 2003 at 18:31.] [This message was edited by Mike on June 04, 2003 at 18:32.]

Steve, You're definitely on to something. Remember that the Pentecost stuff is only a token. I also suggest more thorough reading. It's been obvious that you have been missing many details in my posts. . . . [This message was edited by Mike on June 04, 2003 at 18:34.]

Garth, It's from mastering the materials that WE get OUR proof.