Mike

Well, I?m out of gas, and I haven?t even started answering yesterday?s backlog or the day before?s. IF there are any pressing items there please feel free to repeat or paste them in again.

Goey, I?m not saying that the Bible, as handed down through centuries, is worthless. I?m saying that with the principles of the class MASTERED, then we can see these quite decent remnants come to life, GREATER LIFE that any human translators or human Bible teachers could ever do. This was a very valuable exercise that many OLGs did successfully do, hence their commendable commitment prior to the 1982?-85 period. Now, IN ADDITION to that, there was a next chapter in our adventure, but that was one we missed. What we should have seen in 1982-85 but missed, was that in addition to God supplying us grads all these great remnant repair principles in PFAL, HE, He God, also supplied us grads WITH remnant repair principles, many words added (that were not in the originals), like in Jer.36, because IT?S TIME! We missed it, that our ?Bible aid? in PFAL was not a mere human device, a man-breathed Bible aid, but was God?s great revelation to His kids that it?s time to come UP, it's time to get a spiritual view from God?s perspective. It?s time to meet the lord in the air. It's time for learning the perfectly renewed mind. These are things I have NOT posted very much on yet. I?ve only hinted in a minimal way at this, but it seems to slip by people. As you said, IF everyone applied the keys we?d be like minded. Unfortunately none of us really thoroughly MASTERED ALL the keys, so instead we came up with fatal differences by 1986. When we all master PFAL (like Dr undeniably told us to do) then we?ll be like minded, and not until. [This message was edited by Mike on June 13, 2003 at 4:29.] [This message was edited by Mike on June 13, 2003 at 4:31.] [This message was edited by Mike on June 13, 2003 at 4:33.] [This message was edited by Mike on June 13, 2003 at 4:34.] [This message was edited by Mike on June 13, 2003 at 4:35.] [This message was edited by Mike on June 13, 2003 at 4:38.]

Thomas Heller, You wrote: ?What the heck is "combo wise?" KJVS are the same version of the bible. That's why it's called a version. Again, what the heck is "combo wise?" Please don't tell me it's one of YOUR code words to get to Dr.'s code words.? First of all, what it is NOT: The "wise" in this is NOT in reference to wisdom. It's in the sense of a type or style. "Combo wise" means "with reference to combo" or "in the style of a combo" and NOT "wisdom towards combo." Now for what it IS: When we say the original Bible is our only rule for faith and practice, of course we don?t mean our KJV. What we mean is an abstract notion of the originals. This is not a printed book we can buy and put into our hands. It?s something we?ve built more in our head than have printed on paper. SOME of it is printed in our own handwriting in our wide margins, correcting and augmenting the KJV. SOME of it is in our heads from much working of Youngs, Bulinger, interlinears and other versions over the years. SOME of it is in other books like Kenyon or others who have explained things for us better than KJV and we keep track of these secondary sources of knowledge on God?s Word in our head. SOME of it is in the books like interlinear or Youngs but it?s FUTURE knowledge that we haven?t attained yet, but we?re fairly confident we can find it if and when we need it. This combo of ways we access the abstract ?Only Rule? are subject to our human frailties and therefore only approximate, but we can tune it up at times. We don?t access God?s Word vial a printed book or set of books. We access it through this complex combo, and EVERYONE?S ?combo Word? is a little different. As time goes by these ?combo Word of God?s we build (broken cisterns they are) grow in different directions due to differences in our human frailties. I sometimes challenge friends to consider the following. I have presented the notion that Dr's books are authoritative, and that they are just as good as having God Almighty standing before us speaking the same words. If this is not true, then it's the sad case that you do not have a single book in your library that is bigger than you. All your books, and every passage in them are subject to new "discovery" as being not quite true. You can white-out and change ANYTHING that is in print if you happen to come across some other evidence that convinces you otherwise. Then, that very same evidence is subject to similar challenges in the future, and so on. Can you to find in your library one single book that's "bigger" than you? Can you find one that you dare not alter or disagree with, but that you can rise up to because it's bigger than you? I think you can, that is, if you still have your PFAL books. [This message was edited by Mike on June 13, 2003 at 2:12.] [This message was edited by Mike on June 13, 2003 at 2:41.]

Exy, You wrote: ?yeah well my 5 senses tell me veepee was an a$$hole at times? I agree. So am I at times.

Steve, I just had a quick question: Do you only read my posts that are addressed to you? If so, that would explain a lot as to how you mis-read me so intensely last post. It seems you read into me the attitudes YOU had prior to PFAL. Honest, I was very much into avoiding spiritual knowledge, except for a short psychedelic fling in the 60's. I was a total sense knowledge feek. I posted this several times, but it was in posts not addressed to you, so I thought maybe that's why you missed it.

Steve Lortz, You wrote: ?All I have to do is open my copy of the Blue Book and I can SEE exactly what Wierwille wrote!? Yes, but don?t forget that there?s 6 other full size books, 1 booklet, and lots of magazine articles that comprise the written PFAL record, plus 3 other large dense books that deserve my consideration. If I?m REAL current and up on all that?s in the Blue book, then there?s some other books I haven?t had much time for lately. I?ve seen the practicality of ?lately? to be on the order of years. That?s time for leakage. Another thing to keep in mind. It?s a phenomenon I saw repeatedly when discussing One God with trinitarians. They can read their KJVs, and I can show them a verse that contradicts their theology, but they?ll read it with a godawful twist and/or a blanked recognition. They can read it but at the same time they CAN?T read it! I?ve seen it dozens of times in others. Then when I came back to PFAL I saw it in me. I saw how attitudes of MINE can mis-color or even blank out altogether many passages in PFAL. I?ve found that we ALL at many times, when he was speaking and when he wrote, said to ourselves ?That?s jut Dr. He didn?t mean that.? Many people have testified EVEN HERE that they did this at times, especially after 1982. Another think to keep in mind is a phenominon we?ve been taught about and that I?ll bet you?ve seen examples of. This is where an academic unbeliever comes to study the Bible as literature, and because of the attitude that the author was disjointed and very human, this academic is PRONE to miss things in the Bible. Not only in PFAL, but in many of the Google sites explaining ?Bible Contradictions? to be only apparant, OFTEN it?s the case that the report of a contradiction is due to the reporter?s attitude of disrespect for the ultimate Author. The same happens with reading PFAL. If you have the attitude the best characterization of Dr?s heart was that of a sex pervert, then your reading will be skewed thusly. If you have the attitude that Dr was a pretty decent guy, and PFAL is a pretty decent Bible aid, then your reading will be affected again. I?m saying that if you read your Blue Book with the attitude that Dr was only a willing agent of the Real Author Who is The Holy Spirit, then you?re going to have a different reading experience. I?m saying that a lot slipped by back then AND it slips by you right now TODAY when you read the Blue Book, because you have not made the proper attitude adjustments. ****************** You wrote: ?Then it struck me, you have been so schooled to revere the knowledge that comes to you through a spirit... ANY vagrant spirit... that you no longer trust your sense perceptions, or your ability to understand them.? Please, this is 100% off the mark! I was schooled as a scientist. I?ve detailed this much here. The reason I did NOT read PFAL with the attitude I recommended above is because I HIGHLY valued the 5-senses approach, EXCLUDING spirit. Science has rigorously and vigorously excluded spiritual ideas and data because it?s fraught with fraud. I viewed Dr with skepticism for 27 years, until I noticed that his public teachings EVENTUALLY passed EVERY 5-senses test I could devise. Some took years, but eventually he earned my 5-senses respect. You need to completely re-tool your analysis of my situation. That Key #4 applies to GS too you know? If it?s possible for you to get 5-sense data on me, God expects you to do that before He gives you revelation. Doing computer searches is probably within your abilities, and you could have seen from the data I?ve posted that this guess was totally off the mark. What you just posted about me (?been so schooled to revere the knowledge that comes to you through a spirit?) is SOOOO off the mark, that I hope for your sake it was just a 5-senses goof. If you think you got revelation on that one, the vagrant spirit you mentioned may have found a believer and it?s not me. **************** The next big chunk of you post was wrong about it?s guess on me, but accurate in bringing out the good points for the 5-senses realm. Remember, the only reason the 5-senses realm was bad was because Adam handed it over to the adversary. That was only temporary though. Jesus Christ bought it back. Some of my agreement with the contents of this section of yours is reflected in my post above to mj412. I see the 5-senses realm as very good in the first heaven and earth, and good again in the third. Sense knowledge has a very good place in God?s creation: interacting with the garden and the animals. But when that realm is messed up, and we want to REALLY know God, then we must graduate from 5-senses understanding to spiritual. This is why Dr told his top leaders to master PFAL. They were operating on the 5-senses level and eventually the adversary, because he controls that realm, overpowered them like he did with Eve. It was slow, but eventually all us OLGs added a word to PFAL, then subtracted a word, and then changed a word. By the time 1986 rolled around we were primed for the frontal assault and we contradictd PFAL openly. It was slow. *************** You wrote: ?Which brings us back to the question I asked in my post of April 24, 2003, 11:17, about half-way down page 12 of this thread, "How can a person distinguish between information that is coming from the holy spirit and information that is coming from demonic sources? Or in other words, how can a person detect counterfeit manifestations of the spirit?"? Let me answer in a nutshell, again, even though I?ve gone into this several times here. By mastering the written word with our 5-senses abilities, we THEN can also get into the spiritual. I am advocating here that we go the 5-senses route to read the facts in PFAL. This is step one. It?s not the end of this curriculum, though. ************** You wrote: ?When Jesus Christ was in the desert, he was able to recognize and reject the source of his temptations because he used his human reason to compare the sensible facts of his situation with facts he had learned by reading God's sensible Word. Jesus used his 5-senses and his reason to ESTABLISH the truth, and thereby distinguish the false.? I almost TOTALLY agree. I?d deviate slightly on WHEN he did the 5-senses work. I think that was PRIOR to going into the desert. Once there he was operating manifestation, having just come from John?s baptism and receiving spirit. ************* You wrote: ?False spirits don't want us to be able to distinguish the true from the false, because then, we would recognize them for what they are, false spirits. So they do everything they can to undermine our confidence in our God-given 5-senses and our God-given ability to reason.? Yes, and the primary way the accomplish this is by casting aspersions on the Word of God. They?ll take something God has worked, and say it?s only man?s work, and then they?ll dredge up all the man?s sins who worked 40 years with God to get His revelations into written form for others? benefit. Those spirits are good at that I?ll agree. They?re so subtle they can get you to think I have been listening to them. ************* You wrote: ?It's difficult to be certain of something that was written 2000 years ago in a foreign language to a foreign culture. We have to rely SO heavily on translators and interpreters. We ought to be able to KNOW something that was written in our own language, and our own culture, less than a lifetime ago!? AMEN! That?s PFAL! ************** You wrote: ?How did it get to this place, Mike, where you can't even KNOW what's plainly written in front of your face, without alien spirits to translate and interpret for you?? Well, Steve, this is where I came in here. I started this post showing you how YOU can think you know the Blue Book form long ago, yet with the attitude you?ve been tricked into now, you can?t read it and see it. So, the end of all this round and round is that you think I?ve heard spirits of error, and I think you?ve heard spirits of error. If your next post is just another thinly veiled literary maneuvering for you to lay aside the huge volume of data I?ve posted and point your finger at me and say the internet equivalent of ?You?re possessed!? then forget it. It bores me. Let?s talk about the data and not me, ok? [This message was edited by Mike on June 13, 2003 at 2:40.]

mj412, I just found more to you post I didn?t answer. You wrote: ?Yet you never refer to the bible only pfal.? Mj, remember that EVERY page of PFAL has Bible verses on it. So every time I refer to PFAL, indirectly I?m referring to this VERY large collection of Bible verses. It?s a collection larger than number of verses many people read in a number of year. If I spend 2 hours reading PFAL, that means I?ve just read about 20 minutes of Bible verses and many more minutes going over the details of those verses. So in this way when I refer to PFAL, I?m ALSO referring to the KJV Bible. When I recommend reading PFAL, I?m recommending Bible reading. There are a few places here where I?ve posted a large list of verses from the KJV. MJ401020! I?m not guilty of this charge!

mj412 You wrote: ?what about the fact Jesus Christ states the comforter, the holy spirit will teach us ALL things MIke? do you think He was just referring to those people at that time hearing His vioce?? I did answer these questions on page 21, about quarter of the way down, posted June 09, 2003 23:20. It was RIGHT after you asked it. My response was long, and right after you asked. My answer to THIS first question was that the INFORMATION and TEACHING was guaranteed by Jesus, but how direct or indirect that is depends on God?s decisions. I think he was referring to everyone hearing, but not to everyone hearing it DIRECTLY by manifestation of holy spirit or phenomena. I think most people get it by reading it. God directs us to which writings we should trust and there could be a lot of supernatural interaction there, but I think God designed the 5-senses to be an EXCELLENT way for the beginning student to get to know His heart. He then wants His children to grow up to His level of spiritual understanding. The way He does this most often is He favors those who have done their best with the 5-senses learning. This is Key #4 I mentioned above from the AC. What I?ve just written stands in great agreement with a section of Steve Lortz?s latest post. ***************** You wrote: ?If not then how is it we even need a teacher when He says we need no other teacher?? Well if that?s true then you shouldn?t have to teach me anything here. Reference the bible not pfal.? But mj isn?t a KJV Bible actually a teaching from a set of teachers? From the translators and fragment catalogers? **************** You wrote: ?when you talk you speak down at people, like you have arrived somwhere they can only try to achieve with your help, like your the ones with the answer and we need you to find the true meaning of God.? Mj, I?m trying my best to not get deep about myself, but the material I?m promoting is VERY deep and VERY correct. When I proclaim this deep correctness that?s in PFAL, the attitude I have towards PFAL may appear like that?s how I feel about myself. It?s not, HONEST! I?m quite ashamed at how I totally blew it all those years on MANY things that Dr taught. I wish I was back then the man I know to be now, but at the same time, IT?S NOT TOO LATE to become the man I know to be. I am often abrupt and sometimes harshly to the point (when I?m not horsing around), but sometimes my abruptness is due to the brevity of the time I have for typing at that particular time. But regarding my tone ESPECIALLY try to keep in mind that I?m PRIMARILY talking to OLGs, who should know better. We OLGs blew it, me included. We?ve got to face our errors and fix them with ego and feelings shoved aside for a while. We?re 20 years late, and there?s no time to ..... If you?re not an OLG (and I think you?re not, if you are who I think you are) then YOU?RE INNOCENT! I don?t mean to address all these harsh facts and truths to YOU, but to the leaders like me who blew it in 1985. Where were you in 1985? I don?t think you were a ministry leader then, a witness to God being at work in Dr?s ministry to the point that you forsook career and fame and fortune to dedicate you life to PFAL. My harshness is addressed to THEM. When I act uppity about the information I have it?s because I really do have some hot stuff that all OLGs need to hear. If you can?t relate to what I?m doing for OLGs here I UNDERSTAND, and I?m answering this now to help you understand. I don?t think that PFAL is going to work for everybody right now, but for OLGs I think it?s CRUCIAL. Please, mj, when you look at my posts, try to think of them as letters addressed to someone else. You can learn from them, but when you think they?re addressed TO you, it can then get confusing and unnecessarily charged emotionally. Now I just spent a lot of time answering these things, when I have a backlog of unanswered posts for others here from yesterday and the day before, plus some new ones from today. I just thought it was important that I not antagonize you. That?s NOT my heart at all, not now and not when you first contacted me. I?m only trying to help, and I hope I?m learning every day how to help better and not accidentally step on anyone?s toes. Since I spent this time here with you, can you do me a favor? If you see these guys here who are lined up waiting for me to wrestle with pages of posts from them, if you see them getting down on me finger pointing for me not answering, can you sneak up behind them and crouch down on all fours right behind real close, so I can give them a gentle push backwards? This trick worked real good in Jr. High.

revised post: BTW, the "secret" decoder ring is in the Advanced Class By READING the set of PFAL books (as opposed to remembering them, or hearing someone else remember them) for a masterful 5-senses understanding, you then put yourself in the position for God to reveal more. Here?s the secret decoder adapted from the AC?s ?16 Keys to Walking in the Spirit? It?s key #4 - Study the PFAL much. What you can know by your 5-senses God expects you to know.

Oakspear, Yes. SOMEONE has to supply us with physical mnaterials with God's Word written on it to get started. We all have to make decisions as to WHO is going to be our Word supplier. I have come to reject the traditional suppliers as I have learned more and more about their limitations. Likewise, as I have learned more and more of the quality of the Word supplied by the team of God and Dr, I feel that my BEST supply of God's Word is form this source. There were years and years that I applied key #4 above to my KJV. Actually, it was a little more than my kjv. It was a combo of my KJV plus my wide margin notes plus a lot of Word I had in my head, plus some scattered material of other authors plus my interlinear and Youngs. It?s this combo that slowly became a broken cistern as PFAL drifted from my central focus in the 80?s and 90?s. This combo I had is similar to the combo most grads use as their ?Word? in some ways, the ways it was generated. HOWEVER, every grad has a slightly (sometimes no so slight) different set of beliefs in their combo Word. Like mindedness is IMPOSSIBLE under these circumstances. I saw this difficulty in like mindedness long before I came back to PFAL and found the solution in 1998. Like mindedness is CRUCIAL for the power to be fully manifested. Remember that 7 of the 9 manifestations are for OTHER people. When I looked at this problem years ago I started to believe that like-mindedness was no longer available. In the first century like-mindedness or "speaking the same thing" was stated as a command from God, but it WAS possible then for everyone to have the same reading base in their beliefs. It seems that in these modern times every grad had a slightly different combo Word they were working from. As I pondered this huge problem, I thought for a few years that this would straighten out and we?d all eventually come to greater and greater unity. But just the opposite happened! Everyone?s combo Word got farther and farther apart. **************************************************** Here?s what Dr said about this in the Advanced Class, segment 6: "Such as I have, I give" such as you have, you give. You can't give, class, beyond what you've got. First Corinthians, one, ten - such an important verse of scripture, maybe so many of them are - I should all - have all of them put on charts but only put on, I guess, what I feel in my heart I'd like to have. First Corinthians, one, ten: "Now I beseech . . ." The word "beseech" means to implore - lovingly beg you. We have it here on this chart. ". . . [implore - lovingly beg] you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, [Number one:] that ye all speak [and the word "speak" is lalao - it literally means "running off of the mouth" - so that we should all have the running off of the mouth - talking about] the same [what?] (thing), [Number two:] . . . that there be no [what?] divisions among you; [And number three:] but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind [nous] and in the same [what?] (judgment)." And class, that can only be when we all speak the same thing on God's Word. No one will ever qualify for first Corinthians one, ten, unless they get their heads and their hearts into the accuracy of the integrity and the greatness of God's Word. How will we ever speak the same thing unless we study the same thing, people, and let the Word of God speak for itself. If you and I do not rightly divide the Word of God, there's gonna be division among us. **************************************************** When Dr says something like ?the accuracy of the integrity and the greatness of God's Word? rest assured he is NOT talking about the KJV, NIV or any other version for our common reading. There was one set of common books we all had, PFAL, that he was talking about us reading for like-mindedness. Our KJVs are all different, combo wise. In the previous AC segment Dr said this about reading and studying PFAL materials: ?I have set for our people, and it's set in the book on "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today," and people, when you reach the Advanced Class, you ought to be able almost to quote this line for line. You should have mastered this book by the time you get to the Advanced Class. If you haven't, you better get busy and do it - work it to where you understand the Word of God in every facet, in every way of it's utilization regarding the holy spirit field - all of them, you must know this book, in and out. But I've discovered as I've worked among my people, and even all the grads of the Advanced Class, there still are areas where we got to push ourselves.? (1979 Advanced Class segment #5) [This message was edited by Mike on June 12, 2003 at 12:58.]

BTW, the "secret" decoder ring is in the Advanced Class By READING the set of PFAL books (as opposed to remembering them, or hearing someone else remember them) for a masterful 5-senses understanding, you then put yourself in the position for God to reveal more. Here?s the secret decoder from the AC?s ?16 Keys to Walking in the Spirit? It?s key #4 - Study the Word much. What you can know by your 5-senses God expects you to know.

Steve and Thomas and Todd, I'm still reading and pondering your posts, and when time permits I will respond. Thank you for you contribution to this forum. [This message was edited by Mike on June 12, 2003 at 12:23.]

mj412, My relationship with Jesus Christ is doing fine, thank you. What?s not good enough for me is what OTHER people say about him. I only want to know what GOD says about him, and I base my relationship on that. When I brought up our relationship (5-senses vs. spiritual) with Jesus Christ it was ignored. It seemed that most people wanted to talk more about me or Dr or sex or plagiarism or ANYTHING other than a relationship with Jesus Christ. So is that what you want to talk about now? Or is it ?me? or some other less inspiring topic that is on your mind. Mj, how do you get it so right with JC?

Steve, It's my contention that "the meanings of the words ...written in His Word" have eluded our exact awareness, due to the fact that "the meanings of the words Wierwille actually wrote in PFAL" have not been carefully mastered. We just don't KNOW exactly what Dr wrote becaused so much slipped past us, so much has leaked out, and so much other stuff has been allowed in. The prupose of this thread is to raise the level of awareness to Dr's specialized vocabulary SO THAT we can finally see what God taught him by various sense knowledge methods and spiritual revelation, and that he taught us in written form.

Thomas, Take a break, by all means! There are SO many details for me to respond to that I must pick and chose the ones I can answer the fastest, and/or the ones that I think are most crucial. When I have a lot of time and energy (best case scenario) I still estimate that I only can get to half of the points in response that I WANT to get to. With time, I'd like to think, every point will get coverage. It may be the case than you and none of the current active posters here have ever dealt with the constant barrage of post replies that are expected of me daily. I'm doing my best.

Steve, You may have to share that cigar with vickles, because you're pretty close. Proper "spiritual understanding" of God's Word is hearing what the Holy Spirit, the Author, tells you it REALLY means, even if it contradicts what's we THOUGHT it actually meant. Sometimes a clever writer wil chose to impregnate his work with double meanings, one surface meaning that is picked up by all readers, and the other hidden, known for sure only by the author until divulged.

vickles, I'm sure the counters count one person many times as they check in from day to day to day. Those numbers REFLECT readership, but they don't count numbers of distinct people. Those posted numbers are far greater than the actual number of readers. There are many old threads way down the page that still get hits in the "view" category, even though no one posts on them. The actual numbers that appear on the counters is a complex software issue, and no way reflect actual numbers of people. They do indicate comparitive numbers of people, though.

vickles, You win the CIGAR! You are the FIRST to even touch my many times mentioned "spiritual understanding" challenge. My hat is off to you. Now it's late and I'm tired, so I won't try to answer you much yet. But HONEST I'm not blowing smoke. If I was only bluffing, Steve would sniff it out for sure, drop his Blue Book bone, and race after my spiritual understanding ?bluff.? No, I?m itching to get into it. Now that you?ve broken the ice maybe we can get some others to contribute. The phrase ?spiritual understanding? came up a lot in the ministry and I NEVER knew what it meant as opposed to 5-senses understanding. It?s fairly new to me what I DO know about it. I?ve been setting the stage for discussion of it. Actually it?s pretty cool. It too is connected with the Christ?s Return and Appearing in that we shall know even as we are known. [This message was edited by Mike on June 11, 2003 at 4:20.]

Goey, All your comments on the bad reception here of my invitation to come back to PFAL are based on the POSTERS here. And it?s not just the posters, it?s the ACTIVE ?mike thread? posters only. That?s a small subset. Almost every time I hit the ?general? button on the top of the thread, and then go to the bottom of that ?general? page, it shows that there are about an equal number of guests and registered posters signed onto the board. Plus, Pawtucket has posted that there are over a hundred registered posters. How many are actively posting and how many are simply reading? Then there is the ?number of replies? counter versus the ?number of views? counter. Look at the difference. There may be many people not posting here who are opening their books again and enjoying the results. It could be one person coming back to PFAL per week. It could get exponential as people tell friends. Do the math.

mj412, I answer lots of your posts, when I can. Can't you see I'm swamped with other posters to respond to here besides you? Come on, give me a break. By the way, I'm responding here to your post of June 10, 2003 20:25, where you mentioned the name of Jesus Christ. I just thought if we could eliminate this one little snag in our communications, then future ones may go smoother.

. . . How can anyone think that they have graduated from a 5-senses understanding of a written promise of God to a spiritual understanding, if they can't explain the difference between a 5-senses understanding and a spiritual understanding? . . .

Goey, People need data, details, before believing is possible. Some data slipped by us, some has been forgotten, and much has been been buried under hyped up negatives. As data is made available people have more of a choice in what they can believe. I'm not so concerned about how people are thinking right now, as when they have more details upon which to base their decisions.

Steve, You wrote: ?On this thread, Mike has been contending that Wierwille's writings contain a ubiquitously hidden teaching regarding what Mike calls the "advanced Christ formed within" spirit, which is, according to Mike's own definition, a spirit different from the gift of holy spirit.? It?s ubiquitous and that means we SHOULD have heard it, because it?s everywhere in his writings. It?s hidden because our focus strayed far away past the revelations God was giving to Dr and on to other things in the late 70?s. Now, THIS I?m a bit shaky on, but it seems that when we see the phrase ?spirit of God? we automatically think holy spirit, the gift that came on Pentecost. But is that true? I think ?Spirit of God? better refers to this soul category item of the new man, Christ formed within. Some of these things I?m still working on. ******** You then wrote: ?Mike says that our understanding of the "advanced Christ formed within" spirit "depends heavily" on understanding "the Natural/Factual versus Spiritual/True dichotomy".? MANY things in Dr?s teachings depend on our getting the Nat/Spir deal right, not just Christ formed in us. Pretty soon SOMEONE?s going to get curious about spiritual understanding versus 5-senses understanding, and the dichotomy will come into play there heavily. Many areas of Dr?s writings use specially reserved words to tip off the reader as to which side is being emphasized, the 5-senses of the spiritual. Without rightly dividing this dichotomy according to Dr?s vocabulary NONE of his teachings can be properly understood. This is one of the main reasons much data slipped right past us the first time through PFAL. *********** You wrote: ?If our acceptance of the "advanced Christ formed within" spirit is so crucial, and if our acceptance depends so heavily on our understanding of the "Natural/Spiritual dichotomy", then I would expect Wierwille's statement about the supercession of the worlds to make real sense and to be explainable.? I expect it to make sense too, but we have to get ALL the statements he has made on the table first. This is like cracking a code or foreign language; we can?t just assume Dr?s vocabulary is the same as ours or Webster?s. We don?t focus on ONE passage and ignore the others. In your rush to disprove me and Dr you overlooked this crucial detail, Steve. I?m still working my notes to get the most useful passages ready for posting. I?m still learning all this too, so give me time to absorb and ponder the large volume of material. Pretty soon I?ll start posting more data on this subject. I feel sad in the sense that I see you really don?t WANT to have your question answered. If it gets answered then you have to trudge off and find something else to argue proves PFAL is wrong. The real heart of researching the way I am doing it is to believe there is SOMEWHERE an clean clear answer, and it?s just our job to find it. Your modus operundi here is to NOT find it. I don?t view this thread as focused on whether or not PFAL is correct or from God; I view this thread as PRESUPPOSING that PFAL is of God and accurate. I postulate PFAL?s correctness and work from there. This thread is to show us how to better read Dr?s writings with better understanding of what he meant. It?s in this area that I want to focu my posting energies and my discussion energies. You want to tear down PFAL and engage me on that ground, and I refuse. Steve, I come to this thread to post some information I think will help people. I have a positive message ?Master PFAl and see good results.? You come here with your message of ?Don?t listen to PFAL? and your message is a negative one of ?DON?T do this.? May I suggest something? I?d like to see you start a positive thread where you have a message or a system of thought where you want to help people by seeing them employ your methods. Give them some ?Try this? or ?Do it this way? or other positive suggestions. That?s what I want to do here. There?s more for me to whittle away on your most recent post, and I will. Give me some more time.

Because I can answer this quick, I?ll do it, but then I have to get back to other things for a while. ?What happens to OLGs who don?t heed my call to master PFAL, rather Dr?s call because I got it from him, rather GOD?S call because he got it from Him.? I think they will miss out of a VERY special extra blessing that no other people, not now and not before, have ever had made available to them. This blessing has not been totally received by any individuals since the first century, and it?s not been AT ALL received by any organizations of people, groups, bodies since the first century. I see it as a VERY big extra blessing, calling, enabling, and responsibility. Refraining from it would be unnecessarily shameful for an OLG who DID see the goodness in PFAL at one time. To not come back to it, would be like Judas missing the new birth. Just dumb head trips prevented him from receiving the big blessing. I never said anything about anyone missing eternal life over this, but it does look like a lot of rewards are intimately tied up in it. I see the Return of Christ intimately tied up in this whole deal too. There?s got to be a BIG reason for God, after almost 2000 years, to step in and make the perfectly renewed mind available, the mind of Christ, Christ in book and magazine FORM. It?s so that we can FORM Christ within like he hasn?t been known since the first century.

Sirguessalot! From whenst comest thou? I haven seen you in a score of fortnights. You caughtest me in the midst of much scribe work and scripture posting, as I am putting the last polishing touches, giving the full treatment to my treatise of truth.