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Mike

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Everything posted by Mike

  1. Thanks sir G. **** karmicdebt, That incident, although it was uncomfortable at the time, it was not nearly as unbearable as you contend. I was well practiced at controlling my ego. Nowadays I?m inclined to think he did the right thing in reading me the riot act. It got my attention in a most memorable way, and I have learned much from it. With a loved one, even the angry or inaccurate words they say are carefully listened to. Feedback from a loved one, even when it?s uncomfortable, is treated as important, and ego takes a second seat. **** My3cents, Part of your objection is answered immediately above. The other part you mentioned is accurate: factual physical analogy cannot reliably derive or prove spiritual truths. But that?s not what I did. My first post on this thread extracts the truth of loving a loved one?s words directly from Deut.6. Then my second post ILLUSTRATES the same truth, already obtained legitimately, with an analogy.
  2. I?m going to reiterate my earlier post in a nutshell. To love any human being we must carefully LISTEN to the words of that person. This is pretty logical and basic. We pay attention to our loved one?s words, and we don?t substitute our own words in there, or anyone else?s. If we love them we love their words. Ditto for loving God.
  3. Pat, I think I can help you keep this in the ?About the Way? forum with what I have to say. It appears that Dot?s and CW?s posts both drift into the Second Commandment category, which is fine for earthly activities, but as you say, what about the First Commandment? I agree with you that it was the case that TWI-2 (and some in late TWI-1) taught the idea of loving God by loving leadership. It?s been well pointed out here that these Roman Catholic ideas of apostolic succession and papal infallibility were firmly entrenched in TWI in these later years, and may still be in effect with TWI-3 today. Even still, the balanced the balanced principle of respecting leadership, although a good Biblical principle, is more on the horizontal axis, and you are asking for the vertical. My mission is to point out that there are many things that have slipped by us that we need reminding on. This ?How to Love God? idea is right in line with that. We were taught that love (agape) is whatever God says it is in His Word. It?s not the common notions of phileo or eros or ?smotherlove? as they were sometimes characterized by. If you want to know what God says agape is, or HOW to do it, how to love HIM, we must go to his Word. Another thing we was taught in the good old days is that Jesus Christ never came up with anything new. This may be a barb in the anti-plagiarists saddle they try to ignore or forget. Everything Jesus said was either in the Old Testament or God told him. He was not original in anything he said, only in how well he absorbed and obeyed what he was told. Putting these two thoughts together (God?s Word defines love and Jesus was a plagiarist) wouldn?t it be logical to look for where Jesus got that greatest commandment from? Way back in those good old days I did just that and found the place. Guess what! The context of the passage Jesus was quoting answers your question. Let?s go and study it out together. But first, please allow me to digress here, because I know what some of you are thinking. It's very obvious that some types of study may very well miss the point of loving God. Some extreme examples might be how it was reported that Nikita Kruschev had memorized the gospel text, yet kept up many of Stalin's murderous polices. Another example might be someone who devotes his life to the definitive study of weights and measures of the Bible, yet has no belief or love for God. Then there's the alternative method of missing the true love of God, by conjuring up a wealth of positive emotions regarding God, yet ignoring what God says, thinking that by avoiding study these emotions are pure and untainted by secular scholasticism. This type of person often quotes things like "the letter killeth" or "knowledge puffeth up" to support their determined ignorance. Then there's the God-prescribed-method of loving God first, and then continuing on to loving neighbors. This God-prescribed-method must start with a pure love for God, but how is that achieved? Let?s now look at where Jesus got his answer for the greatest commandment to love God with all your heart? Jesus was quoting Deuteronomy Chapter Six. Deut 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. If one wants to know HOW to do this just look at the next verses. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: 7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. 8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes. 9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates. There are nine uses of the word "and" here, which is a figure of speech for emphasis. These are the HOW's of loving God: become a fanatic... a fan of God's Word. Outside of this "extremist" behavior is the realm of the counterfeit. This is how God prescribes us to love Him. In verse 6 it says "these words." It doesn't say men's religious words, it says "these words" meaning the exact words God gave Moses at that time. It doesn't say translations of "these words" and it doesn't say versions of translations of "these words." Now for us, living at this time, we don't have the exact words that God issued in ancient times. They've been lost. If we want to love God we must go to the words He gave US in this day and age. That doesn't mean words that some committee of translators serve up to us, as in a modern English "Bible." Those words, such as the KJV, are not really the Bible, they are men's opinions of what the Bible used to say... approximately. And that's exactly what got Eve into trouble: inexact approximations. But God has solved this problem for us in how He contacted Dr in 1942 and worked with him and his staff for 40 plus years. If we want to love God we must go to the exact words God taught Dr. Wierwille and Dr. Wierwille taught us. We must then become a raving fan of these exact words and master them by saturating our lives with them. Remember the nine "ands." This is exactly what Dr's final instructions to us were: to master the collaterals. You can't love God without mastering the collateral books to the PFAL class. Any knowledgeable grad who resists this commandment of God is not REALLY loving God. It's just a counterfeit. Love God = Master the PFAL Collaterals. It's ONLY by mastering the collaterals that we are able to really, FULLY love God. Deuteronomy Chapter Six instructed Israel HOW to love God by saturating their lives with His written Word. Mastering the collaterals means we need to saturate our lives with them (and ONLY them) like Deut 6 prescribes.
  4. I'm sorry lindyhopper, I must inform you, your post is not an S.I.T. topic. You're gunna have to delete it or move it on over to a more appropriate thread. I'm just sorry I let your post sit on this thread this far before squawcking and frittering myself into a fit. Someone should have stopped this earlier. Again, my apologies. God is my daddy!
  5. Georgio Jessio, Sorry I somewhat answered your post in my response to Jerry. I?ll try to add more now to your post. ?Oh, by the way, for you doubting Thomass's, Gods rule: You believe first and than you see!!! __ Yeah man , I believed. I really did. I believed to the point that I thought there was something wrong with me.? Well we got to be wise in our believing. I know I was not always so wise in what I chose to believe. Sometimes it wasn?t God?s Word, but some slightly (or not so slightly) inaccurate form of the Word. If it?s the Word we believe, we will eventually see. But if it?s really believing, then circumstances (like not seeing for a long time or the ministry melting down) will not cause it to stop. Mental assent, a good counterfeit of believing, poops out when challenged sufficiently. **** You wrote: ?Mike, I don't know what to tell you. I made a conscious effort to fake it. I have never thought for a minute that anyone would try to tell me I wasn't faking it. I figured some would laugh, some would say I did an evil thing, some would feel sorry for me. But you, my man Mike, have taken the cake for most unexpected reply.? Try reading it again then. Don?t trust your first take to be accurate. Taking the cake can be a distraction that hides many details. **** You wrote: ?I have seen you say some ridiculous things, defend VPW (who I say was a scum bag, I have plenty of first hand experience that you would refuse to believe)...? I know that Dr had an old man nature that stunk (so does ours) and I also know that Dr was a very powerful intellect (sorry Zix), and that he was in a very powerful position, so it doesn?t surprise me that his old man COULD stink much more powerfully than ours at times. But then again, his ability to bless us was quite powerful too. I also know that on SOME occasions, his discipline of LEADERS may have been totally right on with God, but the reception of it by immature, insolent, and arrogant students was misunderstood and thought to be evil when it wasn?t. Yes, he also had sin in his life, but that has never stopped God from continuing His work with anyone, Dr/you/me, who comes back and restores fellowship. **** You wrote: ?I've seen you refute the abuse claims...? That?s an inaccurate observation. I don?t refute them, I ignore them WHEN it comes to my decision to master the PFAL books. I pay attention to them when I can help anyone who was abused, but I administer my help according to MY rules, and do not cater to demands like yours to not promote PFAL mastery to others. I separate Dr?s sin from the writings God gave him by revelation JUST LIKE I separate David and his abuse of Uriah (murder) from the revelation writings God gave him. **** You wrote: ?I've seen you defend a ministry built on lies...? It was NOT built on lies. Lies came in and contaminated a lot of things, especially by the mid 80?s. Your present impressions of it are built on lies and the kind of facts that God tells us to not dwell on. **** You wrote: ?(it didn't snow that day in July, he didn't invent the hook shot, conceive McDonalds or ever receive a doctorate)? The ministry was not built on these things. It was October, not July, but still that was not a building block, and it DID snow. Some very interesting things were posted on that snow AND his doctorate here this past year that I liked a lot. maybe I?ll re-post them. Who cares about the hook shot or McDonalds? I don?t, so I?m not going to bother to search out where these TVTs came from. The ministry was built on what God taught Dr and he taught us ESPECIALLY in book and magazine form. ***** You wrote: ?I've seen you blame others for being "out of fellowship" and not listening to VPW when the king of being "out of fellowship" was Old Vic himself.? Many things went wrong when we got out of alignment. Same with Dr because the Word says he had sin too. That still doesn?t invalidate God?s revelations to him. David was much more out of fellowship with his murder, AND he suffered consequences, but that STILL didn?t prevent God from giving him revelation. If you think Dr?s sin prevented him from getting valid revelation, then be consistent and rip Psalms out of your Bible. Better include Solomon?s work too because he was worse. You wrote: ?But you trying to tell me I wasn't faking it is the most ridiculous thing anyone has ever said to me in my life. Straight up.? Calm down and read it again. There?s no way you could have absorbed the details while in the state you describe. **** You wrote: ?Two questions: 1. what could I ever say that would convince you I was faking it? Seriously. __ 2. I remember the Advance Class. Asking me if I remember what Vic ... said about Balaam is like asking me if I remember what he said about the bible in PFAL. Can you be more vague? Please, refresh my memory.? (1.) Look at my response to JerryB. I qualified with MAYBE and SOME a lot. I don?t care if you were faking it 100% or 70% or 2% but I do see the POSSIBILITY that some wasn?t. If you don?t want to take it in the light of what Dovey said, and what was said to her by me and Jerry and Galen, then you probably don?t WANT to get your fakery percentage to a lower than 1% level, and my attempt to help you will not work. I?d like to see you consider that some was right some of the time and that you can improve on it, even radically improve on it like Dovey reported happened for her. A lot of WHY I was so bold as to stand up to your statement of ?I faked it? is because of it?s affect on others. I think you wanted it to help kill their belief that they had it right. Tearing down believing in PFAL is par for the course here, and your tone seemed to say that you were trying to inject the same doubts in others. I thank God I had the opportunity to type out all I did to you even if it doesn?t help you seek better operation of the manifestations. Many others feel the same way you do (I always saw them in my excellors sessions) so by offering my help to you, they overheard and can now start dealing with whatever percentage of fakery they think they inject or actually inject into their operations. And now that I?ve gotten your attention in a MOST effective and memorable way, maybe next year you?ll come around and try to get it better. Thank you for allowing me this soapbox. **** (2) Here?s your answer to Dr?s teaching on Balaam: ADVANCED CLASS TRANSCRIPTIONS Session 20 BIBLICAL ILLUSTRATIONS OF REVELATION (Part-6 Num. 22-24) I'd like for you to take your Bibles and, we're still dealing with Word of Knowledge and Word of Wisdom, and again I want to show you another great record from God's Word. I do not know of anything that is more accurate to teach people the operation of manifestations than just read the Word with you, just share the Word. 'Cause you're going to have to see all of these things in the Word so you can inculcate them in your life. Numbers twenty two has a real interesting story, a lot of the people think it ought to be developed sometime and put on T.V. or somethin', I donno. It's another one of the great records in God's Word that shows you the greatness of God and the greatness of the revelation. 'Cause I'm going to read with you and show you from the record; a man, in my opinion, was crookeder than a dog's hind leg. Heh, heh, heh - ah, a man who was just totally unworthy of receiving revelation, and yet, somehow or other, when that revelation hit, he had enough sense left sometime to listen to it. And I-I just want you to see the greatness of it. So, I think the best thing to do is begin reading in chapter twenty two. It says: Numbers 22:1 And the children of Israel set forward, and [they] pitched in the plains of Moab on this side Jordan. . .{by Jericho}. I love all these little things in the Word, like these baseball games - pitched, ya know, an' ah - heh-heh-heh, yeah. They tell the story about why they didn't play cards on Noah's ark with all the time they had is because Noah sat on the deck or somethin', (laughter) an' ah I dunno. But I know verse two tells me where we got our zippers from (laughter) . . . this fella: 22:2 {And} Balak the son of Zippor saw all that Israel had done to the Amorites. 22:3 And Moab was sore afraid of the people, because they were many: and Moab was distressed because of the children of Israel. 22:4 And Moab said unto the elders of Midian, Now shall this company lick up all that are round about us, as the ox licketh up the grass of the field. . . In other words, the children of Israel were causing no small stir among the unbelievers. 'Cause the unbelievers had taken land and property that didn't belong to them. . . . [so] {And} Balak the son of Zippor was king of the Moabites at that time. You gotta keep him an' the next fella, Balaam, seperated. Balak, the king of the Moabites, 22:5 [so] He sent messengers therefore unto Balaam the son of Beor to Pethor, which is by the river of the land of the children of his people, to call him, saying, Behold, there is a people come out from Egypt: {behold,} they cover the face of the earth, and they abide over against me: 22:6 Come now therefore, I pray thee, curse me this people; for they are too mighty for me: . . . You see, I can handle this section either from Word of Knowledge an' Word of Wisdom, I could also handle it from Discerning of Spirits. I choose to handle it in the Word of Knowledge and Wisdom. Although, as I told my men in a meeting this morning, there aren't - there are lines of demarcation that I see in the Word and teach, but you cannot separate out any of the manifestations and then throw the rest out. They all fit together for you have all nine abilities, potentials, latent within you, all of them. So, Speaking in Tongues, is even very important for operating, oh, the manifestation of Believing. Ah, Interpretation of Tongues, an' Prophesies very important in the operation of Word of Knowledge, Wisdom, all of those. Here is a statement: "I pray thee, curse me this people;". . . there is absolutely no question about it, that in the devil spirit field, in the black arts, they do put the curse on people. They are able and they do, at times, kill people, have them destroyed by spirit power. So, this is what was in the mind of old Balak, he thought: "Well, if I can get this man out there, he lives right at the border of where (it told you the border of where he lived) an' right next to the children of Israel there, an' he's part of the children of Israel, so to speak, therefore, if I could get him convinced, he could put the curse on the children of Israel that they couldn't whamp us - beat us up - destroy us." So he said: "curse me this people; for they are too mighty . . . {peradventure} [that] I shall prevail, that we may smite them, and that I may drive them out of the land: for I [know] {wot} that he whom thou blessest is [what?] {blessed, and he whom thou cursest is cursed}. Ha-hah-hah! That's quite a record! This Balak knew that this Balaam, if he put the blessing on anything, it was blessed - and if old Balaam said "Go fly a kite", they'd fly the kite, if they were cursed, they were cursed - he knew this. So, he thought, if he could get that fella over to his territory, he could encourage him to put the curse on the children of Israel. So: 22:7 {And} the elders of Moab and the elders of Midian departed with the rewards of divination {in their hand;} . . . Ha-ha-hah, gifts - gifts, rewards of divination, gifts to be given to those men who would - or man who would put the curse on 'em - fortune telling stuff, you know, hah, pay-off. . . . {and} they came unto Balaam, and spake unto him the words of Balak. And Balaam said, ah - hang in here tonight, lodge here tonight, and I'll bring you word again as the Lord shall speak unto me. You know, even sense knowledge wise, he-he could have immediately said; Look, men, you're all screwed up - you're all wrong. Go on back, I'm not comin'. But old Balaam had sort of a little crooked streak in him. He always wanted to try to figure out how he could get a little more and squeeze on God a little bit or something. So, he said: Fellas, just hang in here overnight, tomorrow morning I'll let ya know. Ah, an the Lord shall say - and the princes of Moab abode with Balaam. {NUM 22:8 And he said unto them, Lodge here this night, and I will bring you word again, as the LORD shall speak unto me: and the princes of Moab abode with Balaam.} 22:9 And God came unto Balaam, and said, [Who are those fellas you've got in here?] . . . You know, God's sorta stupid - He didn't know. How - . . . What men are these with thee? 22:10 And Balaam said unto God, [Oh, ah, ya know,] Balak the son of Zippor, king of Moab, hath sent unto me, saying, 22:11 Behold, there is a people come out of Egypt, which covereth the face of the earth: come now, curse me them; peradventure I shall be able to overcome them, and drive them out. 22:12 And God said unto Balaam, Thou shalt not [what?] go with them; [Thou shalt not what? Go with them] thou shalt not curse the people: for they are [what?] {blessed.} Huh-huh! And Balaam rose up . . . now ya got revelation: Word of Knowledge, Word of Wisdom. 22:13 And Balaam rose up in the morning, and said unto the princes of Balak, Get you into your land: for the LORD refuseth to give me leave to go with you. 22:14 And the princes of Moab rose up, and they went unto Balak, and said, Balaam refuseth to come with us. 22:15 And Balak [the king of Moab] sent yet again princes, more, and more honourable {than they.} Ya know, protocol. He's now up to, I imagine, about a two star general. He's sending that caliber. He started out with what ever's below that someplace, then protocol ya know. 22:16 And they came to Balaam, [verse 16] and said to him, Thus saith Balak the son of Zippor, Let nothing, I pray thee, hinder {thee} from coming unto me: 22:17 For I will promote thee unto very great [what?] {honour,}. . . See, that's always one of the great catches. The adversary will always keep throwing it at people. They'll throw the sense knowledge world promotion at ya. And that's exactly, ya know, he's gonna dump money on him, property, all of that stuff. . . . and I will do whatsoever thou sayest unto me: come therefore, I pray thee, curse me this people. 22:18 And Balaam answered and said unto the servants of Balak, If Balak would give me his house full of silver and gold, I cannot go beyond the word of the LORD my God, to do less or more. Sense knowledge wise, ya know, he could really blow it. But when he had revelation, if he told the revelation, class, if he declared the revelation, the revelation would always be right. No matter how wrong the man was in his walk. If you were dead drunk today, with a quart of whiskey hanging off of the side of your belt, born again of God's spirit, filled with the spirit, and if God would give you revelation, the revelation you would declare would be absolute truth. Your walk of life is something else. This is why I say revelation, most unlikely place, unlikely time, I don't know how it always happens this way and how it works this way but, that's the way it is. The revelation is always genuine. Now I know what I've said has disturbed some of your minds, so I'd better restate it, Father says. Look, being drunk is sin, right? But, suppose you had a very, very bad thought, contrary to the Word of God, what's that? (sin) O.K., so no grades of sin with God. Who's gonna point the first finger? Not me. I don't understand, you know, I just know if you're in alignment and harmony, it's one thing, but I also know a man can be out of alignment at what the world would call a little out of alignment. There is nothing like that, you're either out of alignment or you're not out of alignment, right? It's not a little out, ya know, it's like being a little pregnant and not pregnant - so, (laughter). Terrible illustration. Anyways, that's the truth. 22:19 Now therefore, I pray you, tarry ye also here this night, that I may know what the LORD will say unto me more. Screwball! Should have stuck by the original revelation. Matter- of-fact, he didn't need any revelation to begin with, 'cause he knew, he was a prophet, he knew God spoke to him. Therefore, he should have sent the men back the first time, but he didn't. Then God gave him revelation, now, ya see, he's trying his best to wiggle out of this thing so he can go over there to Balak and get paid. He wants C.I.F., Cash In Fist, or property, he wants something he's after. So he said; ah, maybe the Lord will say to me a little more. And it's real neat because God did come and talk to him further that night: 22:20 {And God came unto Balaam at night}, and said unto him, If the men come to call thee, rise up, and go with them; but yet the word which I shall say unto thee, that shalt thou [what?]{do}. Which seems to be an apparent contradiction between the revelation given at first - ah, where was that? "Thou shalt not go with them." in verse 12, right? Now, it seems in verse 20, God has changed His mind, God has changed His mind, He says: "Rise up, go with them; but yet the word which I shall say unto thee, that shall thou [what?] do." Now, God didn't change, but there's a phrase in there that the critics never see, and the phrase is: "If the men come to call thee", if the men come to call thee. God knew, all the time, the men were not going to come to call him because, the moment this statement was made, old Balaam, in verse 21, didn't wait on the men to come to call him; 22:21 {And} Balaam rose up in the morning, [bright and early, the men never came, he] {and} saddled his [stupid] ***, and went with the princes of Moab. There it is, he never waited. It's about like Paul, in one sense, in the epistles, or Acts, remember? Revelation: "Don't go to Jerusalem, don't go to Jerusalem", but Paul wanted to go where? (Jerusalem) Oh, Balaam wanted to go see Balak so bad, he could taste it. So, he goes to God and he says; Lord, can I go? the Lord said NOPE! Then he goes back, ya know, and keeps working, and the Lord said; if the men come, you can go. He never waited for the men to come, he just saddled his stupid ***, got up bright and early, loaded 'er up, went over to see the fellas and he said; Fellas, I'm ready to go, I got the go sign. 22:22 And God's anger was [what?] {kindled} [why?] {because he went}: . . . Because there were no men that came to see him, he did not carry out what God had told him, didn't carry it out. So, God was "T'd-off" in verse 22, because he what?, went. You see, there's no contradiction in the Word, you understand?, none what-so-ever. But, . . . {and} the angel of the LORD [ha-ha-hah!] stood in the way [see, he was in the way, the angel of the Lord, all along] for an adversary against [balaam] {him}. . . Now old Balaam was riding along, singing his song, ya know, bright and early; "Good morning, Lord, good morning", hah-ha-hah (laughter). And he's riding along upon his ***, and his two servants were with him. They were living it up, ya know, having a great time, old Balaam's - I can just see how his mind would go, he'd say; "Boy, I gonna get up there, I'll tell Balak - I-I'll get everything Balak's got, and then we'll go up and, if it's possible, if God shows me what's gonna happen to the children of Israel, I'll tell old Balak, then I'll get more money two men, having a great time, ya know, listening to all of his own thoughts, and ah, twenty three: {. . . Now he was riding upon his ***, and his two servants were with him.} 22:23 {And} thearsssaw the angel of the LORD . . . Not Balaam, he didn't see nothing (ha-ha-ha), a stupid old ***, ya know, he's riding along, there he goes down the isle, ya know, and ah, Balaam riding along with his two buddies and, that oldarsslooks up there and he sees the angel of the Lord, . . . standing in the way, and [the angel of the Lord had] his sword drawn in his hand: and thearssturned aside out of the way, and went into the field: . . . Gonna eat himself a little grass, ya know, - not smoke it, but eat it, and he was (laughter) He saw the angel of the Lord, with the sword drawn, so he just see-sawed off to the right and started nibbling on the grass. . . . and Balaam smote the ***, . . . He socked it to her with his whip and he kicked her in the ribs with his spurs. . . . to turn her into the way. 22:24 But the angel of the LORD [verse 24] stood in a path of the vineyards, [a narrower way] a wall being on this side, and a wall [where?] {on that side}. 22:25 And when thearsssaw the angel of the LORD, she thrust herself unto the wall, and crushed [old] Balaam's foot against the wall: and [he really socked it to her] he smote her again. And you know, I mean, he really laid the timber to her, hit her. I think he was thinking about using a two by four between her ears to get her attention or somethin'. But, 22:26 {And} the angel of the LORD went [down a little] further, and stood in a {narrow} [narrower] place, where was no way to turn either to the right hand or to [what?] {the left}. 22:27 And when thearsssaw the angel of the LORD, she fell down under Balaam: and [old] Balaam's anger was kindled, and he smote thearsswith a staff. [beat the "H" out of it.] 22:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ***, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times? Ha-ha-ha-hah, oh, that's the first time one dumbarsswas talking to another one, ha-ha-ha! Oh, and then he, ya know, he's riding along and all at once she caves in under him, and he hits the "H" out of her, he says; "What in the Hell ya do that for me for?" and thearsslooks around and says "What the Hell you mean?" (laughter) Oh, my! That must have been a very intelligent conversation going on there. Thearsssaid; "What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me three times?" 22:29 And Balaam said unto the ***, [ha-ha-hah (more laughter)] Because [you made a fool of me, you] {thou hast} mocked me: I [wish] {would} there were a sword in mine hand, [i'd kill ya, you old bird!] {for now would I kill thee}. 22:30 And the arss said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ***, [you wouldn't kill me, oh you've ridden upon me] {upon which thou hast ridden} ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever [accustomed or] wont to do so unto thee? [And Balaam said, No. ah-hah-ha-ha] {And he said, Nay}. I don't know if they still do, but, they have a - once upon a time, I think, they had a talking mule on TV or a talking horse or somethin'. They must have read the story, see - ha-ha! Oh, I think it's great, it's neat! 22:31 Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, [verse 31] and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, {and} his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, [this is old Balaam] {and} fell flat on his face. 22:32 And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine arssthese three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse [wrong] before me: 22:33 {And} [but] thearsssaw me, and turned from me these three times: unless she had turned from me, surely now also I had slain thee, and [i'd have] saved her {alive}. (laughter) That's a pretty low opinion of a man of God, isn't it? He'd save the stupidarssand kill him. 22:34 And Balaam said unto the angel of the LORD, I have sinned; [man, I've sinned, I've just sinned, I've just sinned] for I knew not that thou stoodest in the way against me: . . . Ya see, he'd have kept right on going. He never dreamed that there'd be anything hindering him. . . . now therefore, if [it'll "T" ya off] {it displease thee}, [i'll go back home, now] {I will get me back again}. "I've sinned, I got caught, now, ya know, I really feel bad. If you don't mind, if it's O.K., you want me to go back, I'll go back." 22:35 {And} [but] the angel of the LORD said unto Balaam, Go with the men: but only the word that I shall speak unto thee, that thou shalt speak. So Balaam went with the princes of Balak. 22:36 And when Balak heard that Balaam was come, he went out to meet him . . . Ya know, lot different than the man of God sitting in his kitchen and having another cup of tea, remember? Yeah, Naaman. Balaam, when he, when Balak finds out he's coming, he goes out to meet him, rolls out the red carpet. {unto a city of Moab, which is in the border of Arnon, which is in the utmost coast.} 22:37 And Balak [verse 37] said unto Balaam, Did I not earnestly send unto thee to call thee? wherefore camest thou not unto me? [the first time I sent somebody?] am I not able {indeed} to promote thee to honour? 22:38 And Balaam said unto Balak, Lo, I am come unto thee: have I now any power at all to say any thing? [here it is:] the word that God putteth in my mouth, that shall I [what?] speak. 22:39 And Balaam went with Balak, and they came unto [this town,] {Kirjathhuzoth}. 22:40 And Balak offered oxen and sheep, {and} sent to Balaam, {and} to the princes that were with him. 22:41 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Balak took Balaam, and brought him up into the high places of [devils] Baal . . . Brought him up into the high places of Baal. Where all those pagan god statues were and stuff, where they worship. . . . that thence he might see the [uttermost] {utmost} part of the people. That he could give a good look over, get a good perspective of the situation. 23:1 And Balaam said unto Balak, Build me here seven altars, and prepare me here seven oxen and seven rams. 23:2 And Balak did as Balaam had spoken; and Balak and Balaam offered on every altar a bullock and a ram. [verse 3:] 23:3 And Balaam said unto Balak, Stand by thy burnt offering, and I will go: peradventure [maybe, perhaps] the LORD will come to meet me: and whatsoever he sheweth me [or shows to me or tells me] I will tell [you] {thee}. And he went to an high place. 23:4 And God met Balaam: [God meeting Balaam simply means revelation.] and he said unto him, [revelation] I have prepared seven altars, [and so forth - offered] {and I have offered upon every altar a bullock and a ram}. 23:5 And the LORD put a word in Balaam's mouth, [that's revelation] and said, Return unto Balak, and thus thou shalt speak. 23:6 And he returned unto him, and, lo, he stood by his burnt sacrifice, he, and all the princes of Moab. 23:7 [verse seven] And he [balaam] took up his parable, . . . Took up his parable simply means that he spoke to Balak and to the princes that Balak had there the revelation that God had given him. That's the meaning of the word "parable". He took up his parable, he took up the words that God had shown him or told him, he told the king, . . . {and said,} Balak the king of Moab hath brought me [forth] from Aram [syria], out of the mountains of the east, saying, Come, curse me Jacob, and come, defy Israel. Here, in verse 8, is the great revelation. 23:8 How shall I curse, whom God hath not [what?] cursed? or how shall I defy, whom the LORD hath not defied? [verse 9:] 23:9 For from the top of the rocks I see him, and from the hills I behold him: lo, the people shall dwell alone, and shall not be reckoned among the nations. What a fantastic revelation. Coming out of the mouth of a man who is crookeder than a dog's hind leg, where thearsssaw more than the man of God did. And even unto this day, Israel has never been numbered among the nations - the word "nations" is Gentiles. And I'm not speaking of the one Israel that's over in the "Bible lands" now, they're counterfeit. Ah, you know, you don't go to the Bible lands or get possessing the earth that's the Lord's which He gave to the rightful children of Israel, you don't get that by a white paper in Great Britain and the finances of the United States to carry it out. The record of the Word tells you how, finally, they go back. So it's still future. You need to read a book on - I don't know the name of it anymore - "The Thirteenth Tribe" or somethin', see. Years ago, I wrote, long before I knew any of those books an stuff, I wrote about Jesus Christ not being a Jew, see, and everybody thought I was nuts. But then we find the great scholars coming along today and they're just saying what I put in a little 20 page booklet, they take 400 pages now to say it, but knew it all the time, see. Well, you aught to read that "Thirteenth Tribe" or what ever it is - blow your mind. Another book you should read is "The Myth of the Six Million" that the Germans incarcerated during the war. Great publicity to keep Christians supporting the so called "Children of Israel" that are there today. Ah, it's a bunch of damned lies, see. And a lot of that stuff, it's just lies upon lies so you can get money and keep support and get armament, really somethin'. The greatest book along that line, of course, was just recently written by Dr. Butz who was a professor at Northwestern University. I understand that the pressure has been so upon him that, they either have or are releasing him. You see, there are just so many, many things happening or have happened, that only if you know God's Word and are able to rightly divide it, will you ever be able to understand some of the things. Now I have absolutely no dislike for anybody, Jews, Gentiles or anybody else. I have no race prejudices, I have no country prejudices, (- thank-you, you can take that) therefore, things that I say to you are not out of my prejudiced mind. This revelation that God gave Balaam is right-on. They shall not be reckoned among the nations. Verse ten: 23:10 Who can count the dust of Jacob, and the number of the fourth part of Israel? Let me die the death of the righteous, and let my {last} end be like his! You see, they could be counted, but it's a figure of speech of an enormous group of people. 23:11 And Balak said unto Balaam, What hast thou done unto me? I took thee [and brought thee up here] to curse mine enemies, and, behold, [all] thou hast [done is you've just] blessed them {altogether}. 23:12 And [balaam] {he} answered and said, Must I not take heed to speak that which the LORD hath put in my [what?] mouth? 23:13 And Balak said unto him, Come, I pray thee, with me unto another place, from whence thou mayest see them: . . . [better] Ah, maybe ya didn't see 'em good enough this first time, I'm gonna take ya up a little higher so you can . . . {thou shalt} see {but} the [uttermost] {utmost} part of them, {and shalt not see them all}: and curse me them from [there] {thence} [O.K.?]. 23:14 And [so] he brought him into the field of Zophim, to the top of Pisgah [a mountain], and [there he] built seven altars, and offered a bullock and a ram on every altar. 23:15 And [balaam] {he} said unto Balak, Stand here by thy burnt offering, while I meet the Lord yonder. 23:16 And the LORD met Balaam, and put a word in his mouth, and said, Go again unto Balak, and say thus. 23:17 And when he came to him, behold, he stood by his burnt offering, and the princes of Moab with him. . . And they were just sure they were gonna get the children of Israel cursed this time. . . . And Balak said unto him, What hath the LORD spoken? 23:18 And he [balaam] took up his parable [the revelation], and said, Rise up, Balak, and hear [get your "earballs" open, Balak]; hearken unto me, thou son of Zippor: 23:19 God is not a man [look at the revelation], that he should [what?] lie; neither the son of man, [that God has to repent] that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he [what?] not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? [see, Word of God's the Will of God]. 23:20 Behold, I have received commandment to bless: . . . That was the revelation, no curse, but do what? Bless! And he tells old Balak, looks him straight in the eye and says; that's what I gotta do. . . . and he [God] hath blessed; and I [can't] {cannot} reverse it. [no matter what I say] 23:21 He hath not beheld iniquity in [israel] {Jacob}, . . . Oh, my God, what a revelation! - Jacob - . . . has not beheld iniquity in Jacob. And the word "Jacob" means "surplanter". That's the meaning of the word; one who beats somebody else, one who's a little shady all the time, a little on the crooked side, if you like that better. And God said: "I just haven't beheld any iniquity in Jacob. That's what you call God closin' His eyeballs! . . . neither hath he seen [wrong] {perverseness} in Israel: . . . Oh, my God! With all the wrong things they did, here it says God didn't what? See it - that's got to be grace, people. Grace existed long before this administration, I trust you know that. . . . the LORD his God is with [Jacob/Israel] {him}, . . . You see, Jacob He didn't see, it's surplanter, Israel means "one favored of God". And even in Israel, they blew it. They were off, yet God refused to see it. And then this great statement: . . . {and} the shout of a king is among them. This prophecy, regarding the coming of the lord Jesus Christ, coming out of the mouth of Balaam is just, sense knowledge wise, unbelievable. If it was written any other place than in God's Word, I wouldn't believe it, I don't think. But being in God's Word, it's true. But I understand revelation. Golly! 23:22 God brought them out of Egypt; [verse 22:] he hath as it were the strength of [a wild ox] {an} unicorn. [Look at verse 23:] 23:23 Surely there is no enchantment against Jacob, . . . No hooky-pookism, no spiritualism - you can't put the curse upon him, you can't put the hex on him. . . . neither is there any divination against Israel: . . . People, if you can't put the hex on servants, if you cannot in Old Testament here, where God said you just can't put the hex on a servant, and there is no divination, no spiritualist, nobody that can make the pendulum swing in your clock when it's standing still, there is no way whereby faces can appear in your bedroom at night, shake your bed - there is no way whereby you can hear voices - from the wrong source, no way whereby levitation occurs in front of you, or a guy floats out of one window and floats in another one - which has happened. There is no divination, class, even upon Jacob, and he was a surplanter, but God's hand was still on him, and he became Israel, favored of God. There absolutely is no divination. Then what in the "H" are you afraid of? Born again, sons of God, you've heard yourselves speak in tongues. Why are you still full of fear? And some of you in the Advanced Class are because of your background: you've been mediums; you've been spiritualists; you've been to seances, you're still afraid of hearing a voice coming into your room at night or seeing someone appear at the foot of your bed. Why, people - when are you ever going to believe God's Word? You can run fifty million black cats across in front of my car, it don't bother me a bit. I run over every damn one that gets in the way! (laughter) Walk underneath a ladder - bad luck - well bless God, set up a ladder and walk under it all day, back and forth - if you have to, to prove to yourself that as a son of God, there is no enchantment, there is no divination, there is nobody can put the hex on you. They can make a doll out of you and push pins in it from here to Europe and back, that's not gonna touch you, it's not gonna hurt you! When are you gonna believe God! (applause) But, if they got fear in you, then you're not in alignment and what? (harmony) And that's why you're headed the road of Balaam, and if that dumbarssdon't fall under you, the sword's gonna kill you - you are going to die and the spiritualists will do it. It's as simple as all that. Well, there's the sound of a king. Verse 24: 23:24 Behold, the people shall rise up as a great lion, and lift up himself as a young lion: he shall not lie down until he eat of the prey, and drink the blood of the slain. 23:25 And Balak said unto [him: Shut-up! Shut-up! Don't you curse them at all nor bless them. It's better just to keep it cool. If you're not gonna curse 'em, shut-up.] {Balaam, Neither curse them at all, nor bless them at all.} 23:26 But Balaam answered and said unto Balak, Told not I thee, saying, All that the LORD speaketh, that I must do? And Balak said; O.K., I pray thee, I'm gonna take you up a little higher - heh, sure workin' him over, ain't it? 23:27 {And Balak said unto Balaam, Come, I pray thee, I will bring thee unto another place; peradventure} it will please God that thou mayest curse me them from [there] {thence}. 23:28 And Balak brought Balaam [up to] {unto} the top of Peor, that looketh toward [this town] {Jeshimon}. 23:29 And Balaam said unto Balak, Build me here seven altars, and prepare me here seven bullocks and seven rams. 23:30 And Balak did as Balaam had said, and offered a bullock and a ram on every altar. [Chapter 24:] NUM 24:1 And when Balaam saw that it pleased the LORD to bless Israel, he went not, as at other times, to seek for enchantments . . . Ha-hah, every time he went up there, he was hoping that he would be given the clue, like the spiritualists were, that something would happen where he could sneak in. Crooked! Damn it, he was crooked! One would have thought he'd have learned his lesson on the road down there confronted with that jack-***! But it seems man forgets very quickly. 24:2 And Balaam lifted up his eyes, and he saw Israel abiding in his tents according to their tribes; and [then] the spirit of God came [what?] upon him [again]. 24:3 And he took up his parable, and said, Balaam the son of Beor hath said, and the man whose eyes are open hath said: 24:4 He hath said, which heard the words of God, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a trance, but having his eyes [what?] {open}: [He saw it by revelation.] 24:5 How goodly are thy tents, O Jacob, and thy tabernacles, O Israel! [There's the prophecy - eh, the revelation.] 24:6 As the valleys are they spread forth, as gardens by the river's side, as the trees of lign aloes which the LORD hath planted, and as cedar trees beside the waters. 24:7 He shall pour the water out of his buckets, and his seed shall be in many waters, and his king shall be higher than Agag, and his kingdom shall be exalted. 24:8 God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn [a wild ox]: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows. 24:9 He couched, he lay down as a lion, and as a great lion: who shall stir him up? Blessed is he that blesseth thee, and cursed is he that [what?] {curseth thee}. Anyone that blesses you, people, as sons of God, that person blessing you, will be blessed. And if any stupid fool tries to put the curse on you, they're the ones that are gonna get it, not you! That's the Word (applause) that's right. That's how it happens. 24:10 And Balak's anger was kindled against Balaam, and he smote his hands together: and Balak said unto Balaam, I called thee to curse mine enemies, and, behold, thou hast altogether blessed them these three times. 24:11 Therefore now flee . . . See, that's man again. See, flee, ya know, he's gonna now, you know, sock it to him. . . . {thou to thy place:} I thought to promote thee unto great honour; but, lo, the LORD hath kept [this honour back from thee] {thee back from honour}. What a bunch of junk, huh? Blaming God for keeping the blessing off of Balaam. 24:12 And Balaam said unto Balak, Spake I not also to thy messengers which thou sentest unto me, saying, 24:13 If Balak would give me his house full of silver and gold, I cannot go beyond the commandment of the LORD, to do either good or bad of mine own mind; [here it is:] but what the LORD saith, that will I [what?] {speak}? No matter how badly he wanted all of those other things, when he had revelation, when he spoke the revelation, the revelation was right- on. "I cannot go beyond what the Lord saith". 24:14 And now, behold, I go unto my people [i'm going back to Israel, to my people, Israel]; come therefore [balak], and I will advertise thee . . . He's going to make a display ad for him now, heh-heh. He's gonna advertise him. And he's gonna show him . . . what this people [israel is going to] {shall} do to [his] {thy} people [balak's people] in the latter days. 24:15 And he [balaam] took up his parable, and said, {Balaam the son of Beor hath said, and} the man whose eyes are open {hath said}: [verse 16:] 24:16 He hath said, which heard the words of God, and knew the knowledge of the most High, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a trance, but having his eyes open: [Here's seventeen: Shout of a king among them, now watch this edition:] 24:17 I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not [immediately] {nigh}: [but] there shall come a Star out of [what?] {Jacob}, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth. This not only was regarding the deliverance at that time but it was beyond that, because the Star out of Jacob and the Scepter out of Israel is the lord Jesus Christ. Came out of the mouth of a man who was crookeder than a dog's hind leg. 24:19 Out of Jacob [verse 19] shall come he that shall have dominion, and shall destroy him that remaineth of the city. 24:20 And when he looked on Amalek, he took up his parable, and said, Amalek was the first of the nations; but his latter end shall be that he perish for ever. 24:21 And he looked on the Kenites, and took up his parable, . . . 24:23 And he took up his parable [again in verse 23], and said, Alas, who shall live when God doeth this! Then, verse 25: 24:25 {And} Balaam rose up, and went and returned to his place: and Balak also went [back to] his {way}. Really something, isn't it? Really something! Hmm - look at chapter 31. Ah, by the way, chapter 25 precedes 31 and sometime you really aught to read through all of these chapters with what I'm teaching you and just watch how all of this stuff develops. In chapter 25 it says: Num. 25:1 And Israel abode in ****tim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab. See, that did not mean physical, sexual acts. What it meant is that the men of the children of Israel married Moabite women, and the women brought with them the worship of their pagan gods. That's why it's whoredoms. Whoredoms. I forget which prophet it was, - one of the prophets, God told him to marry a whore. I forget who that was - who? That's right, Hosea. Can ya imagine God tellin' a man of God ta shack up with a whore? Ya see, God is so fantastic an the things that people get all messed up with God doesn't but He simply proved to Israel that they were whoring around because they had other gods. They had other gods! And the greatest amount of whoredom in the Word of God is to have any other god but the one true God. They had other gods! And the reason ya have other gods is because people worshipped them. That's why the Word teaches that a believer aught to marry a believer. And don't go marrying an unbeliever whose promised you he's gonna take the class and change his life after you get married. (applause) Really somethin', kids. 25:2 And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods. 25:3 And [then] Israel joined {himself unto Baalpeor:} and the anger of the LORD was kindled against [what?] {Israel}. See, anger of the Lord was kindled against the children of Israel. The anger of the Lord gets kindled against The Way people today, if ya shack-up with other gods, if ya worship other gods, if ya run around at these seance meetings or the Edgar Casey junk or the Jeannie Dixon junk, or ya go to the places with bells in the steeples or somethin' where the Word of God is hashed to pieces, God'll take His hand off of you. Well, I don't know. Chapter 31, verse one: Num. 31:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 31:2 Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people. And that is showing Moses that he's going to die. I think He showed this to Peter or someone, didn't He when he said: "I must shortly lay off this tabernacle". Revelation - pre-death revelation, knowing that you're just sorta winding up your life here upon earth. 31:4 [and] {Of} every tribe . . . 31:5 So there were delivered [verse 5] out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand of every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war. 31:6 And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, {them} and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, {to the war,} with the holy instruments, {and} the trumpets to blow in his hand. 31:7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males. 31:8 And they slew the kings of [what?] Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: [and who else?] Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with [what?] {the sword} . Slew him, that's how he died. Sort of a sad ending to a man who had the spirit of God on him, isn't it? Really. But it's sort of a sad ending to the life of the church of the body in which you and I live today to see men and women who have been exposed and have the greatness of the revelation of God's Word made known unto them and then to go back. Sometimes I think, perhaps, words from the gospels would be very apropos; it would have been better for them had a mill stone been hung about their neck than they should suffer or cause one of these little ones to go astray. But I don't run that side of the world. I feel sorry for people, like I assume, children of Israel felt sorry for Balaam. But when a man wills to walk away and he walks away, he'll pay a high price. Today, not everybody gets killed, if you have revelation, you can turn him over to the adversary, but - if you don't have, they just live. But, people, they will be held accountable to God at the gathering together, the same as all men will, 'cause all men are going to appear before God. Dead in Christ first, all of that, to receive rewards, crowns - rewards, others in judgment. No man can walk for any other man, but I think this Advanced Class is a tremendous time to make a decision that's non-reversible, one that you will never reverse on, and that is; "As long as you live upon this earth, from now on, or until the return of Christ, you just never back- up on God's Word. And never try to handle it deceitfully, nor allow devil spirits or anything else to come into your life or body to control you. Or to speak disrespectful about God and His Word. Or to try to touch the Apple of God's Eye by you being so wonderful." I think you have to come to the place, if you really want God's blessing upon your life, to just stay put, and declare what the Word says. You're born again, and I know it, I heard ya speak in tongues and that's the proof, that's why I know you can get revelation as long as you live. But, man, if you're out in left field, and the adversary begins to use you, and especially should you allow yourself to become possessed in your mind by a devil spirit, you can just rack and ruin the body of Christ, you can do what I said the other night or yesterday afternoon; A man can tear something down very quickly, which takes a long time to build. I think I talked about cutting trees down, I did, on the campus. I could cut those trees down in a couple of minutes, that took hundreds of years to grow to the beauty of it. So, God, the true God, will continue to bless and no enchantment can touch you, unless you open to it by your will, you make a decision to listen to the adversary, you decide to hear what they have to say, 'cause it's coming through the mouth of your best friends who are like jack-asses. Who just feed back to you - they're your best friends, many times it's husband, wife, ancestors, relatives, some prominent political man or religious leader, they tell you these things and then you listen to 'em, but what they say is contrary to the Word. And they'll take you down, people, you'll go down with them. And then you speak badly of the greatness of the revelation of God, or men and women who have endeavored to stand for the greatness of that. And you're the one that's going to be the loser. So, if I were you, I'd make up my mind, I'd live for God and the greatness of God and His Word, from this day forward and I just let everything else in God's judgment. But I would not ever listen to devil spirits or people who say things that are absolutely contrary to God's Word. I'd stand up to 'em and say: "Look, that's not what the Word says!" I think you are God's people to do it. And I'd like to say to you, if you don't do it, there is no hope left. There is no other way to go than the Word, people, and revelation is available to every one of you. But I want you to reap the rewards, the blessings of God throughout all eternity, for the faithfulness of your walk, and the right dividing of the Word while you're here. For that, you're going to be rewarded before God throughout all eternity. And eternity's a lot longer than the fifty, sixty, seventy years here upon earth. And if I were you, I'd make that commitment today. O.K.? That's it. END OF SEGMENT 20 [This message was edited by Mike on January 10, 2004 at 3:21.]
  6. CKnapp3, You wrote: ?I other words, you can hear, but unless you see, you have no real basis to believe.? Thomas was reproved for so heavily relying on what he saw. **** You wrote: ? If I were to tell you Coca Cola™ is actually clear and not dark, would you just believe me? Probably not.? If you had a previously established track record of saying many right on things, and the stakes weren?t too high for being wrong, I may very well experimentally ?believe? or mentally accept your assertion. Actually, with this one particular example, I think I DO believe you, since I?ve seen other soft drinks that can be clear. Plus I?ve often seen ingredient labels with caramel coloring mentioned. The more small indirect ?proofs? like this accumulate the more I?m inclined to jump up on that right rail of believing you all the way, assuming these waters have no sharks. **** You wrote: ?In conclusion which is better? To believe everything, or to believe nothing, pending of course some piece of evidence or proof?? Why the stark extremes? Which is better? Neither, if you insist on the extremes of ?everything? versus ?nothing.? I find that too many times people resort to extremes in their thinking, stark black and white, and seem to loose track of all the shades of gray in between. This will come up again in my response to other posters below. **** You wrote: ?Also just a little food for thought. Is it better to worship a god, only to have it be the devil, or is it better to avoid all worship? I would think a good God would be very understanding and would have you not worship at all rather than worship what you think is God only for it to be something evil.? I agree, but I think you?re resorting to a worldly definition of ?worship? while we were taught that SIT is the only true worship. I know what you mean though, and agree that God can help correct the counterfeit items in our mental processes to come into alignment with His Word and will. ************************************************************ Jbarrax, Without studying them closely, I thought that your three posts prior to the one addressed to me were quite good. I especially liked your last comment to wyteduv58, where you wrote: ?That's a beautiful story Dovie. And it makes a very important point. Juat because someone fakes speaking in tongues doesn't mean they CAN'T do it. It may be more of an indictment of the shallowness of the ministry and the depths to which it fell than of the reality of speaking in tongues. __ I say again, just because you faked it doesn't mean you CAN'T do it. Maybe some of you fakers should ask God to work with your heart and faith and show you how it's supposed to be done. I don't mean that to sound demeaning. I just want to encourage you to give it another shot.? Excellent! This is the same heart I put into my response to Georgio. **** Regarding that post you wrote to me: ?Now that's just silly. Composing a message using a concordance is not speaking by inspiration.? I?d say here that you are over abbreviating what I said. Maybe I should have more explicit. I tried to by including these qualifiers, now placed in ALL-CAPS: ?It sounds like you must have done this a lot, or your Interpretation would be very repetitive, and a smart person like you would know that total repetition would not impress your mother. So, you must have eventually gotten a STOREHOUSE OF IDEAS FROM THIS PROCESS BUILT UP INSIDE YOUR HEAD, and all flowing in harmony with the Word and not at cross purposes. __ On ONE DAY you MAY have decided at the last second to do a previously prepared message, instead of the most recent preparation. Or you MAY have altered your prep at the last second slightly. Or added in SOME other stuff that you may have heard someone else utter long before that stuck. Or a RECENTLY REMEMBERED BIBLE VERSE OR PHRASE. __ On THOSE occasions, IF you had even the slightest inclination to bless or help others in love, such a last second decision COULD HAVE BEEN inspiration! ON THOSE OCCASIONS you may have uttered, like the crooked prophet Balaam?s beautiful prophecy, SOME perfect messages from God. __ In other words, your mental faking it MAY have been MIXED with genuine inspired utterances. That?s all we, more sincere, operators of TIP were ever able to do. We all had lots of repetition, and lots of prepared crutch phrases mixed in with our messages from or for God.? It wasn?t just the concordance use I was bringing to the table, even though most do contain a line of scripture verse, and the rest of the verse may be stored in mind. Reading a concordance is a LITTLE like flipping through a Bible version. Sure writing a few passages down and premeditating their use later at twig isn?t spiritual, but I included in my post more than just concordant use like the storehouse of verses in memory. Now inspiration involves God taking those thoughts and memories whose gist lines up with the Word and He points out or brings to mind which ones should be uttered at the decent and in order time at twig. Inspiration is not revelation. If the portions of God?s Word are NOT in memory (whether sourced from gold edged leather KJVs, or concordances, or hearing someone read a Bible, or hearing someone manifest right before it?s your turn...the source doesn?t matter here) if not in memory, then God can?t inspire it. If God whispers something it?s revelation, not inspiration. Another qualifier in my post to Georgio is the GRAY nature of what I am proposing he consider (much like your quoted paragraph to Dovey above) the possibility that SOME (not all) of his ?fakery? was actually genuine. I really believe this was the case with many grads, and when I talked to them this way it helped them to press on and try again in spite of their FEELINGS of fakery. Another ALL-CAPS qualifier in my self quote above is the use of words like may, may, could have been, may. I?m thinking the best case scenario. I?d rather think that way and have not been at all convinced by Georgio that his assessment of his own activity is accurate. I?ve seen too many people THINK something was fakery, and just bit the bullet and continued on the best they could to bless. I?ve examined this very situation so many times and saw that people were not able to properly evaluate their own internal workings because SOME of them were spiritual. We did do some spiritual things, but our understanding was mostly 5-senses at best. Add to that the lack of mastery we all suffered regarding the distilled teachings placed in the PFAL books and even that 5-senses understanding of those internal activities looks mighty untrustworthy in my book. **** You wrote: ?To try to convince someone that God inspired their premeditated message is absurd.? I just don?t think his premeditation was all that was going on. **** You then quoted me : ?that?s all we, more sincere, operators of TIP were ever able to do. We ALL had LOTS of repetition, and LOTS of prepared crutch phrases mixed in with our messages from or for God.? You then commented: ?Speak for yourself sir. That's a little presumptuous don't you think?? Yes. It was a little heavy handed, but it seems roughly accurate, especially as time wore on into the mid 80?s. As we all drifted away from what we were taught and what was put into writing I sincerely think that my use of the word "all" becomes more and more accurate. I do see exceptions to the contrary, but not trends. [This message was edited by Mike on January 10, 2004 at 3:25.]
  7. Zixar, That is only the FIRST of many posts I did in response to you and others freaking out that I would thgink Dr had a good set of genetics. Why did you cut only that one post out with your dull butcher cleaver? You are handling my posts deceitfully by not telling the whole story. Others can see through this simpleminded ploy.
  8. Exy, I have noticed that there are more spelling varities for terms of endearment for you than any other poster here. Maybe God's trying to tell you something.
  9. Exy, It?s easy to be safe with God in believing in His Son and the resurrection. You?ll have no problem with His acceptance, but when it comes to the power, that?s a different story. Going to heaven is fine, but to have God working in our lives NOW and in a most powerful way like he did with Jesus requires us to master the written Word like Jesus did. There are no translations that are accurate enough to do that kind of mastery with. The logic we need to decide on is either: (a) God has fixed this problem with Dr?s writings, or (b) He fixed it with someone else?s writings we don?t know about yet, or © There is no fix and we?ll never see that power Jesus said we should have. Whether you want the power or not, whether you get the power or not, does not affect His FREE gift of eternal life that believing Romans 10:9 and 10. Some great consolation can be seen in how well almost all flawed Bible versions agree with what Dr taught us about Romans 10:9 and 10. These verses are not a problem, so have a great day rejoicing that you have eternal life.
  10. early2it, You wrote: ?This is what I see to be the main way in which people are made to be subject to men and their nonsense.? I think we concur on some of this. I see WW and many others operating in this mode, at least unconsciously. Let me explain. Everyone knows that for the average Joe and Jane, buying any version of the Bible and trying to make sense of it is very difficult, ESPECIALLY if they?re fairly new to it and had little exposure to it while young. Buying a paraphrased version is what many do, but we know there are LOTS of problems with paraphrased translations. A better word than ?paraphrase? would be ?regurgitated.? So there?s a huge bulk of the population who need help with getting translation problems and cultural biases out of their reading and study. Along comes a wordy prolific writer/speaker like WW or any of the dozen ?ministers? who practice their trade here on GreaseSpot. They laud the Bible to the sky, saying how accurate and good it is. Actually, in reality, they are lauding THEMSELVES and their ability to sort through the hodgepodge that men have put together in their versions labeling the cover ?Holy Bible? even though it?s only a large set of their opinions, some right some wrong. The newbee or average Joe sees this minister as a way to get the answers for their version?s difficult passages. As the minister teaches, they grow dependant on his insights. Their only rule for faith and practice is not their version, but the combo of book/minister. There?s nothing inherently wrong with this process, except for the unfortunate fact that the minister only has part of the story correct, and his inability to do all the things Jesus Christ is proof, but the students are never taught that one. The minister may be as sincere and semi-pure in motives, or he may be diabolically setting them up, or he may have a mixture of good days and bad days. No matter how noble the ministers attempts, he never really raises the dead, and his students never do either. The students are dependant on the minister. It?s been this way for 2000 years. Sounds a little like Dr and us, doesn?t it? It IS like Dr and us, except God stepped in and was able to work with Dr?s peculiar mentality and drive to FINALLY get it all right and in writing. Dr tells us this in a few places at a few times, but after 40 years he steps aside in 1982, saying that the project is done, starting to end the dependant relationship with his students. No one listens. He spends the next 2 and a half years augmenting all that he had taught, and ends his life with a final exhortation to us to master the PFAL writings. Dr is now gone and has been for almost 20 years. The writings God gave him are as simple as any paraphrase and even simpler, only totally accurate. We are no longer dependant on the man Dr, but we all, newbies, and average Janes and Joes, ALL of us can read it for ourselves, master it, and receive Jesus Christ?s teaching on the deeper spiritual meanings God implanted in those books to get us up from dead churchianity. With Dr gone, there?s no dependency for us students on him and his flesh, nor on anyone else, nor on a human flawed organization like TWI-1 or TWI-2, or CES, or CFF, or GRR, nor anything else but the INTERdependant Body of Christ. The potential for abuse is gone in mastering PFAL. But for those students of WW or his ilk, it?s totally there. Come back to the freedom of those books that Dr didn?t really author, but that he simply had the privilege of passing on to us.
  11. Zixar, Like WW's inaccurate portrayals of my position, you too have butchered my posts. You forgot to include that I thought the same of Mickey Mantle. The tail end of the bell curves that measure human abilities has THOUSANDS of men like Dr and Mickey. Please don't over-abreviate in how you portray me. It will make you look real bad when people get the fuller story.
  12. Roy, I don't mean to fight either. But your method of thinking that there is some promise of God you can believe that corrects the flaws is common, and has been common for centuries. Millions of readers of flawed Bibles think they are getting it all right, yet there are thousands of differing denominations and no one has gotten right enough to do all the things that Jesus Christ did. You method has a proven track record of MOSTLY failure. You are basically saying that there is a promise like the 1942 promise God gave to Dr that's addressed to you. Can you give me a chapter and verse where you get that promise from? I know that God will honor and bless all those that seek Him, but where does it say that that blessing will include restoring His Word from the ?tattered remnants? antiquity has handed down to us. I put ?tattered remnants? in quotes because, omitted in WordWolf?s summary, is the posting I did that somewhat softens but also broadens this phrase. This phrase has a very rich definition, and should be searched out on this site for all those who want to see the evidence that WW?s analysis is contorted to fit his erroneous reception of my posts. There?s one particular post where I pointed out that the record of God?s Word written in the stars is now tattered and we only have remnants, even though the ?text? of the stars hasn?t changed perceptibly. If you were that good at getting correction revelation accurately, why bother with the reading at all? Just close the book and write it all out from scratch by revelation. Such a document would save a lot of people a lot of research time.
  13. Roy, I repeat: You have ignored the fact that in every version available there are mistakes and disagreements with other versions. Do you correct these errors in the margins of your Bible version or do you ignore them? Which versions do you use? Do you ignore where they disagree with each other? Please address these crucial points. If you were that good at getting revelation to correct the mistakes in the Bible, hows come you don't do it with your own posts?
  14. lindyhopper, You quoted Georgio with: ?Think about it. Almighty God concocts a bizarre way of talking to Himself to tell Himself how great He is. This doesn't seem a little odd to you?? This is a VERY good point to bring up. Why don?t you start a thread on it. I will contribute. I?ve often wondered about it, and slowly found a few ideas that satisfy me. You then wrote: ?Mike isn't this a forum for EX-Way folk?? Are you advocating banning Innies? I happen to be ex-Way myself. Or are you just griping that I don?t line up with you and your fellow antiPFAL posters? I?m only advocating that we go back to the GOOD part of TWI-1, which is PFAL. Like you I detest the crap that went on and was taught. If you want to ban me I?d suggest you research the many threads and hundreds of posts where this has already been discussed. ************************************************************ Zixar, Whaaaaa? ************************************************************ Lightside, Right On Brother! ************************************************************ wyteduv58, I am truly blessed for you. I?m sorry it took so long and that I didn?t have the opportunity to help you reach this fluency sooner. I do believe you had some genuine words in there at times, and maybe repeated a lot, like I mentioned to Georgio. The genuine SIT may have been minutely small and mixed with crutch syllables, but still genuine, and you appreciation for the fluency you husband enjoys and your maintained desire for fluency finally put you in the position where you were able to let it flow. I say conGRADulations!
  15. Georgio Jessio, You wrote: ?I have been thru the very same thing, except I was faking it. I took out a pen and a concordance and found some heavy stuff to say. I wanted to look cool. I wanted to fit in. I wanted my mother to think I was spiritual.? You don?t think God could guide you in your concordance search? It sounds like you must have done this a lot, or your Interpretation would be very repetitive, and a smart person like you would know that total repetition would not impress your mother. So, you must have eventually gotten a storehouse of ideas from this process built up inside your head, and all flowing in harmony with the Word and not at cross purposes. On one day you may have decided at the last second to do a previously prepared message, instead of the most recent preparation. Or you may have altered your prep at the last second slightly. Or added in some other stuff that you may have heard someone else utter long before that stuck. Or a recently remembered Bible verse or phrase. On THOSE occasions, if you had even the slightest inclination to bless or help others in love, such a last second decision could have been INSPIRATION! On those occasions you may have uttered, like the crooked prophet Balaam?s beautiful prophecy, some perfect messages from God. In other words, your mental faking it may have been mixed with genuine inspired utterances. That?s all we, more sincere, operators of TIP were ever able to do. We ALL had LOTS of repetition, and LOTS of prepared crutch phrases mixed in with our messages from or for God. I?ve talked to MANY people with your same objections in my excellors sessions. They were discouraged and downcast about their TIP and God inspired me to help show them that they could grow and EXCEL in this endeavor because God wanted to help very much and that He was very patient with our attempts, flawed and mixed with 5-senses stuff as they were. It was available for us all to have perfectly spiritual messages, but very few mastered this. So far you are not convincing me very well. Do you remember Dr teaching on Balaam in the Advanced Class? **** You wrote: ?Thing is, I BELIEVED everything TWI told me. But the inspiration never came. I did what they said. I breathed. Yet nothing happened. I didn't want to seem less spiritual so I faked it. I knew I was faking it. It was a consius decision, made only after the "real thing" never happened.? In my excellors sessions I almost ALWAYS heard these things like ?it feels like fakery? or ?nothing happened.? This impression that God was going to MAKE something happen is wrong, but it was also pretty common. It is WE who must do something. You DID do something, and God was there to supply the inspiration, but you just didn?t recognize it as inspiration. Inspiration is ?in spirit action? and NOT Stereophonic Hi-Fi voices. The revelation manifestations can at times be in stereo, but not the worship manifestations. Many, many people did not really hear Dr when he taught us what I?m repeating here. With TIP people often were expecting God to make it all happen, but that?s not what we were taught. This happened in SIT also, where even after all the instruction in the class that THEY had to move their lips, throat and tongue, some people still were expecting that God was going to initiate the action. **** You wrote: ?The fact that you doubt this baffles me.? You SHOULD be baffled! This is because you were not fully instructed, or you weren?t paying attention, or you leadership were out to lunch (often the case by the 80?s), AND you didn?t diligently and persistently seek further, better instruction on these things like I did. I drove myself to deal with the faking aspect or the illusion of faking. You should be baffled. Come back to PFAL and get it straight. **** You wrote: ?And I'm not alone. Many others faked it too. The pressure to perform was enormous and I didn't want to seem spiritually impotent. _ Trust me dawg, I faked it. And I did it well. I blessed hearts, hit home and blew minds.? Sorry, I do NOT trust you to have a good handle on what you were doing. There were two things going on back then in TIP, natural actions and spiritual actions, and you couldn?t feel, see, hear, taste, or touch the spiritual part, so you concluded it wasn?t there. This conclusion as you hold it in the present, I assume, is largely rooted in the past 18 years of thinking. The last 18 years have been bedlam for grads, since by 1985 ALL top leadership were out of fellowship, having repeatedly rejected Dr?s repeated overtures for them to master the PFAL written materials. I just found a tape last month from the mid 70?s where Dr is exhorting the 4th or 5th Corps to get it together in this department of mastery. So, even though you have lots of company in these feelings, I think you?re all incorrect in your assessments of the degree of your fakery. The statement that you ?did it well? lines up with this. I think it was God that boosted you over the hump AT TIMES, out of the mediocre and into the doing it well. Your objections were common back then, and I?m VERY familiar with them and their solutions.
  16. CKnapp3, You wrote: ?Mike, what's the connection between your question and mine? I fail to see the relativity.... Now that I answered your question answer mine. The question again is, if a fool is someone who believes everything he hears, what do you call someone who believes NOTHING he hears?? I had been describing the proper balance between skepticism and gullibility. Let?s give this balance a temporary name: ?wise believing? If, in shark infested waters, it?s foolish to walk the handrail on the left side of a ferryboat, does that mean it?s wise to walk on the right side handrail? No, of course not. The reversal from the right side to the left side of the ship does not automatically mean a reversal from danger to safety. (Reminds me of the mirror riddle.) So you answered me correctly with ?it would be foolish to walk on either side.? Here is the analogy: ....left rail.... = .....skepticism..... = ...danger ...right rail... = .......gullibility...... = ...danger ......ship...... = ...wise believing... = ...safety Your question = ?if a fool is someone who believes everything he hears, what do you call someone who believes NOTHING he hears?? My answer = I call them a fool, just like the other fool, for avoiding ?wise believing,? which is the safe balance between believing NOTHING he hears and believing ALL that he hears.
  17. Roy, You have ignored the fact that in every version available there are mistakes and disagreements with other versions. Do you correct these errors in the margins of your Bible version or do you ignore them? Which versions do you use? Do you ignore where they disagree with each other? Please address these crucial points. **** You wrote: ?If the bible is not the word of God why did VPW Quote it...? To correct it where it was wrong, and amplify it where it was right, and augment it where it was lacking. **** You wrote: ?the word {being verses of the bible} of God is the will of God? Dr taught that the Word of God was spiritual, while the Bible was in the senses realm. In the Session Three of the PFAL class (segment 16, page 127 in the book) Dr. says: "No translation, no translation, and I want you to listen very carefully; for no translation, and by the way that's all we have today at best are translations. No translation may properly be called The Word Of God... ..no translation!" Then a minute later he repeats: "Now I said that no translation, no translation, let alone a version, no translation may properly be called The Word Of God..." Then several minutes later he hits it again: "And in this class on Power For Abundant Living, when I refer to The Word Of God I may hold the King James Version or I may hold some other version and point to it; I do not mean that version. I mean that Word of God which was originally given when holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." My mission here, Roy, is to remind us of what is actually in the record, to correct our faulty memories. You may have forgotten that Dr taught these items. **** You wrote: ?He sold Bullinger Bible not VPW bibles? He promoted several different versions at different times, but he FIRST taught us that they were only tools in getting back to the REAL Word. The versions we were exposed to were man made attempts to recover the Word that was utterly lost in the first century. **** You wrote: ?He is not alive and he did not rewrite the bible because he was a man of God and the bible was lost God would had rewrite it if it was lost? God always employed men to bring His Word into the senses realm in writing. God commissioned Dr to re-issue His Word. **** You wrote: ?But the bible is not lost Bible, God, Jesus Christ, and the gift of holy spirit is all you need throw away VPW work while you read Genesis to Rev and after you have read it 100 times reread VPW work? I did do that, Roy, from 1971 to 1998 I worked the man made versions like the KJV, NIV, NASB, and many others with the highest priority. The PFAL books were mostly on my shelf during that period except for when I first got into the Word. I read them in the early 70?s and did exactly what you prescribed. God, Jesus Christ, and the gift of holy spirit is all we need to get to the MINIMUM blessings of God : eternal life. To get to the maximum blessings of God, the Abundant Life, we must study the ACCURATE Word the God gave us via Dr?s ministry. That?s my stand.
  18. Georgio Jessio, I wonder if you were REALLY faking it. Was it totally repetitious, or was there fluency and variety in there? Is your impression of faking it a recent thing or did you think you were faking it back then? You may have not done it in love and therefore didn?t see the benefits, but they could have been there anyway, just undetected. I think SIT is so big that if you acted on it, it was REAL, even if your impression at the time was that it was fake. There were times that I thought I was faking SIT interpretation or prophesy, yet was told that they hit home by some... at times. Look at the crooked prophet Balaam who was TRYING to fake a prophecy against Israel for hire, yet he ended up bringing forth one of the most beautiful fore tellings of the coming of Jesus Christ! You?d have to do a lot more convincing to me before I would believe that your SIT was fake. But then I?d have to believe you are faking your posts now as well. Maybe you should sign up for one of my excellors sessions.
  19. year2027, You cannot buy a Bible in any bookstore on earth. All you can buy are VERSIONS, translations, and reconstructions. They are all scholarly, 5-senses attempts to get to God's Word, and they are sometimes in some places successful, and sometimes not. All the so-called Bibles you have ever seen are men?s opinions as to what God?s Word was. Every so-called Bible you have ever seen has OODLES of mistakes in them. Many versions disagree with other versions in MANY places. God?s Word was LOST in the first century. God solved this problem with His 1942 promise and Dr's faithful participation in THIS project. Dr was not faithful in all aspects of his life, just like you and me, but in this project he was faithful. God worked with others and told Dr to include their work at times, with the appropriate corrections.
  20. Sirguessalot, You wrote: ?Its getting clearer and clearer to me that all VP ever taught was tongues of men. Like music without meaning...semi-wonderful, but meaningless. Purposeless. Like a cloud without water. or a seed that was afraid to die.? Sounds like ?understanding is unfruitful? ? In the soul or mind, SIT was useless. It benefited an area we can?t grasp with our senses, the spirit. The Corinthians were carnal, but they had something good in SIT. Same with us. But Jesus talked about NEW tongues also. Whether that?s tongues of angels or not, I don?t know. I do know that Paul was able to do better than the Corinthians in the SIT department. As we were taught, SIT is only ?in part? or imperfect in a way. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. I like the idea of the cessation of tongues and the coming of the greater. ******* Most of us have held a mental model in our minds regarding the Appearing Administration that I think needs some upgrading. This particular point I have seen regards the speed with which the prophesied events take place in it. I have caught myself and many others thinking that the "atom of time" refers to many, if not all, of our experiences in seeing him as he is at that time. From what I see in I Cor.15, the atom of time comes at the end of the end, very late in the administration, at the last trumpet. It is our new body that takes no time for us to receive. This is NOT the way things usually happen, and that's why this one exception to slow growth (God's preferred method), this new body reception, is documented as happening very quickly. We were taught that it takes time for a mind to change. We saw how long it took Peter to change his mind regarding the new administration he was in. Dr teaches in RHST about the slowness of minds to change. It takes only an atom of time to give us to the new body, but how long does it take God to TEACH us the perfectly renewed mind? We already have the perfect spirit, and that perfectly renewed mind is next on the list. THEN, after we all are synchronized on thinking the same things, we can all then, with our total community believing, receive that new body very quickly. But for each one of us to get to that new mind takes time. I have wondered about when tongues will cease. I now expect that it will be a voluntary thing, and that will depend on believing. Maybe not everyone will cease tongues at the same time, but each believer will wait until he sees that which is perfect which has come. Even upon seeing that, it STILL takes time to recognize it as "that which is perfect" deep down, especially deep enough to feel it's really time to cease something as cherished as tongues. That which is perfect will have to be well proved before a diligent PFAL grad would relinquish SIT. I no longer believe that we will be zapped with the perfectly renewed mind. I do believe it's God's responsibility to make perfect teaching available for it along with the perfect teacher, His Son. I used to think that some kind of Godly possession would take place at the Gathering when we see Jesus, and we'd get zapped instantly with that new mind. No more do I think that way. I now call that way of thinking the "Rap-Zap" model. The "Rap" is for "rapture." In this Rap-Zap model, what could be so enthralling about seeing a man that would do such a trick? I used to think the high altitude and the beautiful vision of his countenance would do it all up. I thought that such a setting was so non-counterfeitable that once we were at that thin air altitude and seeing his glowing face, all fear of counterfeits would vanish and we'd be unrestrained in our believing. We'd just pour on the believing and we'd zap ourselves real fast, all without slow teaching and free will sluggishness. Then I finally realized, in the sense of putting it together, that not only does the devil come as an angel of light, but he has to ability to abduct believers to a high altitude, Jesus for one. My reasonings were not in line with The Word. In my new model, our teaching by the Master will be with total respect to the free will believing God originally put into His created man. The original plan of body, soul, spirit was VERY good, and there's no need to dump it at the Gathering. I see him teaching us how to speak in NEW tongues then. We'll be taught to operate all nine all the time, so when we speak, it will be perfect prophecy. We will know the "divine mysteries" as no longer secret, and will be able to speak them out WITH our understanding, because by then all of our understanding will be spiritual and will have surpassed natural understanding. Until then, God has stepped in, and has gathered us together into a class to hear His Word like it has not been known since the first century. As we carry out Dr's final instructions to master the written material God supplied us with from that class, these things become more and more obvious. It's a simple matter of obedience to the God who gave these great revelations to Dr, who then gave them to us in book and magazine form.
  21. CKnapp3, If, in shark infested waters, it?s foolish to walk the handrail on the left side of a ferryboat, does that mean it?s wise to walk on the right side handrail?
  22. Here's my take, after about 15 years in TWI, followed by 15 years out. In these recent 15 years I did my best to investigate all aspects of my experiences (good and bad). I see two major parts of what happened to us all prior to 1985, the year of Dr?s death: (A) The pure part was the printed books and magazine articles of Dr. Wierwille. These were a team effort, with God at the helm. They were the final end product of the whole outfit and were given by revelation. Add to this a little bit of agapeo from a few very mature believers who are all dead now. (B) Everything else is a mixture of the following: a lot of phileo, some partial revelations, mixed with decent 5-senses thought processes, mixed with 5-senses head trips, and false revelations, and character defect afflictions and abuses. In other words: religion, with all it?s hopelessly tangled good and bad elements. Sorting through (B) to separate the good from the bad is impossible without mastering (A). After 1985 the influence of (A) decreased more and more in use, and the baloney part of the mixture in (B) increased in not only TWI (the big stump) but all the splinter groups, including this GreaseSpot. Most of the activity here focuses on ignoring the books and diving head first into the baloney. I advocate mastering the pure books and magazine articles, and then helping clean up the aftermath of (B).
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