Mike

Abigail, I did see it. My response to it is above.

CW, I’m glad to hear that I was wrong about you being upset with me. However, how am I to interpret your blocking of my phone number to call you? Isn't that kind of an M&A proceedrure? And how on earth did you get the idea I suggested leaving your husband might be a good thing? And why post such a terrible thing without asking me about it first? That kind of misrepresentation, distortion, PROJECTION, or lie (I have no idea which) ....ed me off no end, because I would NEVER say such a thing. That kind of thing was done to me a few years ago and it stunk. I remember ALMOST saying something similar to someone who actually WANTED me to say it 20 years ago, and it haunts me.

Hey? ...... where's Brady?

Abigail, You wrote: “Mike, do you realize what a dangerous place you are living in? When I read that my heart about stopped (figuratively, I mean).” It looks like you didn’t read enough to see that I too was speaking figuratively. You also seem to have missed the volumes I’ve written here and other threads that I am fully aware of ALL the dangers. It’s insulting to me that many think I’m incapable of looking around and seeing all the same dangers you have seen. Don’t you see that YOUR system is dangerous IF INCORRECT? *** You wrote: “When I lived in California, I was witnessed to by Jehova Witnesses. At the time, I was very very young, pre TWI even. I was also very lonely and far from home. __ I got to know this couple pretty well, I really liked them. Much of what they taught didn't make sense to me. But I was always afraid to ask too many questions. It seemed to me, they DESPERATELY NEEDED to believe the things they did and that if I asked too many questions, caused them to THINK about what they believed in, caused them to question their own beliefs, it would destroy them.” I’m very weary with reasonings by analogy like this. It’s cheap and worthless. For every analogy you can think of that says I’m wrong, I can come up with one that says I’m right. You are logical, so surely you must know that analogies are only to be used as teaching devices to ILLUSTRATE proofs already offered. They help people remember the proof, but when substituted as proofs in themselves they portray the giver's of the analogy poverty-of-proof. *** You wrote: “If your belief system is removed it would destroy you. I have no desire to destroy you Mike.” You don’t seem to realize that this is true for you too. This is the reason you had a hard time reading this thread where I showed that YOUR belief system with its “To every man his own truth and his own God within” is vapid, full of holes, and worthless. Do you really mean EVERY man? Charles Manson can adopt that line to say murder for fun is spiritually sound. What do you think of HIS god within? I do think you spotted an excellent point on the broken logic thread. Only thing is, the break occurs not in PFAL, but in your incomplete mastery of it.

WordWolf, Thank You for the promo. This Is what I meant when I said to WhatTheHay that my detractors keep stirring the pot so more can become aware of the Good News I'm saying. I too was concerned that a lot of this thread would get lost to others who come in late. You’ve just given the more diligent ones a reason to go back and check the context in which I made those statements and the follow-ups. They then can decide if you misrepresented me in your abbreviations and in which items of my many statements you selected. I’m not trying to convert the Bozos here, just those who are tired of the complaining and want some answers. You and your busload of Bozos will eventually see the writing on the wall when carloads of PFAL returnees get blessed and start making even more noise than I do. You’re just a band wagon follower, and this one your on now one is going to end soon. You might want to start thinking about a new outfit when these fashions change and an new handle to hide your eventual shame (I John 2:28).

Abigail, I understand. I'll answer your post over there or elsewhere. In addition to letting you alone over here, I want to give CoolWaters a chance to cool down. I am glad you mentioned the item you did, though, because the answer to it is pretty hefty.

Hi Abigail, Nice to see you again. You are definately on to something with your quotes form the PFAL book. I don't think the logic is broken there, it's just eluding you a bit. I just wanted to point out here that your post is an important one. I don't have time to answer it her and now, but if you ponder it a bit more the exercise will be good for you. Ditto for others here. I will soon start composing the answer for you.

Thanks Oak, It's nice to be friendly in spite of the crap we all suffered and the heat of debating on sorting out the good from the bad.

papajohn, I had written: “I don’t trust the flawed versions of the Bible that abound. Neither do you if you correct any of the botched verses in them or augment any verses in the margins.” To which you responded: “...their the same flaws vp learned from. other than other peoples works on them.” VPW didn’t trust the flawed versions. I don’t trust the flawed versions. Dr learned from the flawed versions, and then received God’s revelations to fix them. I learned from the flawed versions, and then moved on to Dr’s revelations. *** You wrote: “... I do know I learned some things when I was in that have saved my life. our minds were open for gods word...” This is comforting to hear. I wish you had typed it in capitals. *** You wrote: “ when does someone close their mind to a bad thing? not god, I don't think anyone here has a closed mind to god.” I think they close their minds to HOW God wants to communicate to them. *** You wrote: “...we all took PFAL, your msg is it's great, not everyone thinks that way” The reason they don’t think it’s great is because they ONLY took the class, but never really finished it by mastering the books. When they do it will be much greater in their appreciation. *** You wrote: “I am honest enough to tell you I keep what I found worked for me in PFAL and still do it today.” Again, this is great to hear. I know that if you come back to the books you’ll find much more that works for you. *** You wrote: “would I recommend someone contact TWI and find a twig, no, because it was and is run by bad people.” I agree, but I also believe that when they come back to PFAL and master it they will change and smarten up. We all blew it in different ways and hurt ourselves and others in different ways. We all learned different things and failed to learn other thing. When we all come back and help each other with the mastering it will be a wonderful time. Some people are already experiencing this. *** You wrote: “I am thankful for what I learned and now I live my life by being the best son of God "I" can be. if PFAL is that great revelation VPW couldn't have closed the door on it, and thats pretty much what he did. if God opens a window, can we close it? did God open a window with PFAL, and if he did, who closed it?” VPW admitted often hat he was not the best student and implementor of his own writings. He got the revelations and put them into written form, but he admitted to falling short of mastering them in his life. This discouraged all those who had trained their eyes on him as some sort of god. So both he and they closed the door. There are other ways we closed the door, and we all failed in many ways, not just in idolizing him. I include myself in this general failure. God has opened the door and invited us back to finish learning from His written revelations in the books. *** You wrote: “do you have an open mind to allow me what you ask of me? you say your mind is shut on this matter, so do most of the posters here. you haven't talked about PFAL here only said the words. this started out saying was DR a real DR, well I guess we all know without telling a lie we can say yes. was he a good man, after all we've learned we know he would have liked to be a better man but he hurt alot of people in many ways, ways I'm sure even he didn't know what was going to be happening in a ripple affect. if you truly want me to understand, why sit in a thread and argue when you could start another thread and show me what your talking about. wouldn't that make more sence and wouldn't people be more receptive? wouldn't that have allowed you to teach what you say is so vital to us. it seems the dr.PFAL debate is really a distraction from a truth you say you have. do you have that open mind you ask of me to tell yourself, ok, these people are nonreceptive and I'm not going to change that. it seems odd to me that you would come to a place where almost 100% of the people were burned in one way or another and wonder why they feel they way they do. a dog bites me I walk away from him.” I’m doing my best to offer some good stuff. I do it on many threads. This one came along and I jumped on. I will do other threads soon. There are a few here who are blessed in what I do. If a dog bites me, and I notice that I’m standing on his paw, then I correct my error and try to make friends with him again. It’s been nice getting to know you a little better, papajohn. I look forward to talking more soon. If I was a little rough in responding to your earlier it was because I thought you were in the crowd of people who were just trying to undo my work here. I can see now you have a good heart.

Oak, Yes, thinking is good. Thinking for oneself is doomed to the adversary's influence. Thinking with God's Word is guaranteed to come out right.

Oakspear, You wrote earlier: “I love it when Mike quotes Wierwille's PFAL book to support his belief that PFAL is god-breathed.” Actually, I quote things like that to prove that you folks were asleep at the switch when you were supposedly mastering Dr’s books. I’ve OFTEN been told that Dr never asserted the God-breathed status of his books, so I post where he did. Like I posted to karmicdebt above, I’m not proving Dr correct here, I’m proving you folks never seriously took the class.

Mark Sanguinetti You wrote: “I am merely trying to get you to think for yourself.” I thought so, and I came up with this on my own. This is why I didn’t answer you. I try to get you to STOP thinking on your own and within the revelation God gave you. Tomorrow’s another day.

shazdancer, I was betting my money on them being blessed in the ministry. Regarding an earlier post on an earlier page, you win the prize. It was "The Thirteenth Tribe" that I was wondering if anyone remembered. I think this is the second time won one of my pop quizzes. Maybe someday you’ll be a fit researcher. The hard part will be becoming meek to God as the Author of the material to be researched. I’m rooting for you. You wrote: “...I dunno about him being one of the great minds... his history of the Jews was nothing new.” He wrote a lot on the history and philosophy of science. Prior to that he was a Russian reporter at the time of the revolution and later escaped Stalin. I’m winging it here a bit on memory. It’s ok to Google now to check me out. I think he was also a Harvard professor in Psychology at one time. In my mind his towering achievement was a book called “The Act of Creation” where he proposes a theory that explains original thought (a questionable concept to me now) in the areas of science, art, and humor. I’ve run into comedians who use his theory to write comedy. The academic world went ga-ga over him until he wrote “The Thirteenth Tribe" and then almost disowned him. His work there was not on the original side as much as he attempted to legitimized prior work that would never get any attention. He failed. Some say that this contributed to his eventual suicide with his wife, but they were also very old, and at least one had a terminal disease. I’m open to correction on any of this. It’s a total wing job.

karmicdebt, You wrote: “Honestly, I can no longer actually read through your posts....they give me a pain in my eyes. But running your post through Word, I only found 2 errors. Not bad!” Sometimes I deliberately misspell a word or make one up or stretch grammar to make a point that stands out. *** You wrote: “It's not the grammar that keeps me away, though. It is the terrible word choice, the inability to make a concise statement - using as few words as possible, and your condescending attitude...” I admit to the condescending attitude in SOME matters, but I don’t think it’s wrong. Remember, God condescends down to the level of man to help teach in that figure of speech and in many other ways. Whey you teach a child you employ positive condescension, even though the little one sometimes doesn’t like it at the time. I’m sure when you do this in love it’s not an ego trip. Any inappropriate ego in such a case emminates from the child, not you. The same holds when I have the truth on a matter and a reader of my posts is in error. If they WANT to learn, then they like my condescension to help them understand. If they don't want to learn their ego trip makes them think I’m on an ego trip when I’m not. Later on, if they decide to dump their broken cistern, they can rejoice at the fountain of living waters I direct them to, and it’s finally clear to them the I’m not trying to say I MYSELF am the fountain, only the director to such. I explained all this earlier in this thread. *** You wrote: “Everyone can learn a thing or two about logical fallacy rules. I would never presume you were open to receiving spiritual insights from me, but the link provided is enlightening in its own way.” May I ask how it is that you can’t read my posts, yet see logical fallacies? I’d think that such an insight would require several careful readings. Aside from that, something I’ve posted several times is the fact that I often am not trying to prove something as much as simply announcing or making something available. When this is the case I often will use a little logic in the introduction or presentation or follow-up, but the bulk is beyond logical proof. I expect that the meek searchers will get the go-ahead from God, or just mere curiosity will do the same, and they will try it out. The proof is not in the putting, but in the trying.

Dan, In your time travels, did you notice Paul headed forward to the Third Heaven.

ex10, I apologize. I think Craig... er ...uh ...L-Pants is gone now, anyway. His posting history is mostly a hit and run style anyway, except for his two here, so I'll bow out. Try re-reading his posts with a Craig-Voice Simulator running and see how it sounds. Jonny Lingo, is that what you did? p.s. - I have saved some of L-Pants posts so that if he edit-erases them, we'll still have the evidence. Anyone game to save the others...better do it quick. If it is Craig they may be gone very soon.

I wouldn't mind if he were Craig. Craig's my brother too. He needs to come back to PFAL too. Not to forget the other main item of Dr's last/lost teaching: he needs to start walking in love again. I hope it's him, actually. Sorry, L-pants. Didn't mean to be talking about you in front of your back here. If yoou aren't Craig, you still need to get hip with Dr's final instructions to us all. It's pretty important.

The more I read L-Pants posts, the more he sounds like Craig.

Jerry, that's fair. I was in a feisty mood. It just seemed that you too were painting with a broad brush. Jesus Christ believed that the written Word was worth mastering. I don't think he's the only exception to your proposed rule. When that Word is rightly divided and acted on in love the scenario you depicted is NOT inevitable.

Hey L-pants, I almost forgot this. Here?s my first thread here, called ?Innies and Outies: all men are liars? http://www.gscafe.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc...42&m=9376001781 It?s right up your ally.

Jerry, So, all those pagan murderers throughout history are closet Bible thumpers?

Hi L-Pants, Boy, are you making me look good. :D--> :)-->Seriously, we still need to talk.

karmicdebt, Ok, I’m game. How’s about yous learning me like an adult, by example, for example. If you would be so kind, please look at the earlier post I did here, at 9:35 AM this morning. It has a lot of edit indicators, because I worked hard at it, yet it would be great to see it ascend to adult level. How about you correcting it, grammatically for me? No fair messing with the content or spiritual information, but if you would simply correct it grammatically, line by line, and tell me why each change is being made, I’m sure I’d learn a lot from the lesson. Then after you’re all done you could put it all together and show me the grand final result. I’m sure I’ll be impressed to the extent of not only cleaning up my GRAMMAR, but I can then also have the motivation to follow up on the LOGIC link you provided and get my act together. How about it?

Oakspear, I didn't intend offence in the beer comment. It was just the new girl on the block who flipped out on that one, bless here heart. She has a lot of homework to do, reading back posts, in seeing what's going on here. I feel for new people stumbling into these bar room rumbles.

alfakat, Just for your information, the very great importance difference between the Word of God and the Bible (and even more so: the difference between the Word and the KJV) can be found in “The Ubiquitously Hidden Teaching of VPW.” I just learned that this thread, which is very much About The Way has been HIDDEN in the “Entertainment Forum.” So, this ubiquitously hidden teaching of VPW’s has been HIDDEN AGAIN! The first page of this teaching can be (temporarily?) found at: http://gscafe.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=9...3772#5496073772 *** The Word of God is spiritual. The adversary was cast out of heaven, the spiritual realm, down to earth, the senses realm. When we learn the Bible, accurately, we have a temporary handle on a very effective club to subdue the adversary. However, since the adversary was given the power to be god of this world, the senses world, our senses club is only temporarily effective. Sooner or later the adversary distorts that written Word in our minds, fills us with fear, and kills us. This not only happens to individuals (no exceptions) it’s exactly what happened to the first century church. The adversary has the ability to distort the senses Bible, and the senses understanding of it. The written Word is in the senses realm. The adversary has NO ability to mess with The Spiritual Word Of God. Paul labored hard (Gal.4:19) to get Christ formed in the minds of his followers, but many things thwarted this on a mass scale. Only a few got it. With Christ formed in the mind, the old man nature there is overruled, and God can teach that mind The Word Of God SPIRITUALLY. With only the Bible we only had a temporary set of victories over the adversary. Dr labored hard to get us to master the 5-sense written revealed accurate Word in the PFAL books, but we all resisted, thinking we had it all when we were only winging it. We had an impressive club, but not the sword of the spirit. The first century church had their temporary victories, followed by stunning, swift, and total defeat. Ditto for us. We were eventually surrounded and defeated by the adversary because we were content with a senses knowledge of the Bible (and THAT only in partially accurate form), and we never graduated to The Word of God, spiritually. Mastering the PFAL books 5-senses wise is the prerequisite for getting to learn the spiritual Word of God. We were taught this in the AC's 16 keys to walking in the spirit #4 "Study the Word (written*) much. What you can know by the five senses God expects you to know. Proverbs 29:18, II Timothy 2:15" __* my inserted parenthesis The difference between the KJV, even a substantially corrected one with wide margin notes, and the Word of God is the difference between life and death. We are getting a second chance to take up the sword and slay the dragon. [This message was edited by Mike on February 04, 2004 at 12:43.] [This message was edited by Mike on February 04, 2004 at 12:47.] [This message was edited by Mike on February 04, 2004 at 12:49.] [This message was edited by Mike on February 04, 2004 at 12:50.] [This message was edited by Mike on February 04, 2004 at 12:54.] [This message was edited by Mike on February 04, 2004 at 12:57.]