Mike

shaz, I'm ALWAYS trying! Some say I'm very trying. ;)-->

Royal Gorge, This is not a surprise to me, but I am interested in how you know this. I’ve heard this was in the works a month ago while talking to an innie leader. I’ve been looking on their website since then for news of this but haven’t seen it, though I’ve not checked every page. Maybe they want to be quiet about it, and just start filling orders. Two weeks ago gladtobeout started a thread of questions we’d like to ask leadership of TWI and the bookstore issue was the first question posed. Corporations have many reasons for moving so slowly, but I see more such positive moves in the works. *** The magazine has been available all along. A friend of mine is not an innie, yet gets every issue. I think the SNS tapes have also been available all along. *** I think it was my thread on Dr's Last/Lost Teaching being found and his final instructions to master the books that re-opened the bookstore. :D--> I'm not responsible for the sun rising (or not), though. (This has been a paid advertisement by the Come Back to PFAL Committee.)

Someday it will grow up to be a sentence, and then maybe even a paragraph. ;)-->

Shaz, I think we’re saying the same thing when we align our nomenclature. The power I was talking about was legitimate 5-senses authority he was handed over the materials, the properties, and the expenditures, not people. This did include payroll for those who volunteered for such service, and directing the teaching programs. I think the power you were talking about was the corrupt, self-serving kind of power that relied on fear, and where upper leaders were getting fake “revelation” about underlings personal lives in the 5-senses organization that was none of the leaders’ business. SOMEONE had to be given the legitimate power of the 5-senses corporation, so giving this back would only mean someone else got it. As I showed on another thread here, this kind of 5-senses power was the ONLY power Dr gave him in his installation. That thread is called “News Flash! LCM Never Installed Spiritual Leader of The Way!” and can be found at: http://gscafe.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=9...9442#2276059442 I’m convinced that only someone who had reached the “all nine all the time” stage could long resist the adversary’s seductions in stewarding TWI and all that power. The reason we have records of people like Eve, David, and Solomon, who were GREAT believers at one time, is to show us that without the accurate Word and the spiritual power, none of us humans are any match against the adversary. We all drift from the Word and get burned, it’s just a matter of time. I believe Craig was chosen by revelation because God knew he could withstand the many pressures the longest. I can think of many more mechanisms of corrupting the Word we were given in PFAL that are FAR more subtle than sex scandals, yet far more devastating to the body spiritually. I’m making an educated guess on these kinds of ‘what-if’s, but some day in the not-too-distant future we will all find out for sure.

My3Cents, Thank you, and I wish the same for you. You wrote: “I don't think Craig's failures were at all typical. They were/are pretty extraordinary.” Yes they were not typical or even comparable with ours, but they were still typical for those rare individuals who have THAT much power in their hands. I think if any of us had been given that much power we would have screwed it up even worse than Craig. Like I said, we had differing symptoms from Craig's, but we all had the same end result of not being able to effectively and consistently operate the revelation manifestations, which leads to an inability to operate the importation manifestations. In this we are in the same boat as Craig. *** You wrote: “But it's common for people with a fundamentalist view of things to see the world as black or white with no variance.” Yes again. I was pretty shocked when I re-read the “Fellowship Is the Secret” chapter in TNDC. In there it’s very plain that fellowship is NOT a black and white thing, but has many shades of gray in between. The richness or fullness of our fellowship with the Father and His Son are laid out often in that chapter. It was the TVT (Twi’s Verbal Tradition) that very starkly portrayed fellowship as either “in” or “out.” *** You wrote: “If you believe that people and actions are either "on the word" or "off the word" then there is no room for a whole range of motivations from mistaken, to misguided, to deliberatly evil, to narsacistic.” Yes again. I’ve several times posted here that I see a mental model of Craig and people like Craig being like the pilot in the 60’s movie “Fail Safe” in their misapplication of training. Unlike that movie, though, I think Craig can recover from this, even Craig. There IS a way.

Eagle, I've made a note to answer your post soon on the Masters thread.

templelady, That’s a new idiom for me: gaslight. What does it mean?

Oakspear, I just saw your post above Goey’s. I still want to leave this thread, but will quickly respond. You wrote: “Mike, that is utter b.s. _ While it is true that when people are blessed they talk about those blessings, that does not preclude talking about the evil that is out there. _ You observed nothing about templelady's life. You made an assumption based on your own world-view.” I will admit this. As I was working it occurred to me that I don’t know templelady very well or her previous incarnation here as Maure. I did assume that she fit in with the rest of the hate mongering mob here, but I do know that there are exceptions. I think I did make an assumption, but it wasn’t based on my world-view, but on my GreaseSpot view. Many here have exhibited a mob mentality as they post. When characters are typed on the screen, and there are no emoticons to indicate otherwise, I sometimes catch myself supplying negative emotion where the typist may have had none. I’ve seen this effect played out on me too, so I’ve started using more emoticons. I'm often under multiple attack here, where one person is very charged up negatively and another is not. Lumping the two together is pretty hard to avoid in the heat of battle. I’ll say this to you, templelady, if I supplied the wrong emotion/attitude to go along with your words I apologize. I know that an “iffy” apology like that is not satisfying to some (some require blood) then I suggest you post (not on this thread, but the “Masters” thread in the Doctrinal Dungeon) a string of positive, Word based, life affirming, God-glorified URLs of templelady’s heart, then I’ll be motivated to see if there’s not ten times as many negative posts in her portfolio. She may get my full verbal apology (no blood) based on the data. This way I’ll get to know her a bit, too.

Goey, So, another derailing you want to drag me into? No, that’s not what I do. I spent 11 years investigating, from 1987 to 1998, without making up my mind. Then, after all the pertinent data was familiar to me or re-familiarized, I made my informed decision with God’s help. Now I stick to my decision, especially since I have not seen any new data for the “other” side for years. Part of my mission here is to bring to the table data that has been obviously forgotten by most here or that had slipped by most here SO THAT they can make an informed decision, rather than an enflamed emotional decision. The “due process” I was referring to is the kind of filtering of improper data, like courts do, and having the accused speak for themselves to include in the data. In order for the accused to feel free to come here they would have to see that’s a civilized process they’re walking into, not a kangaroo court filled with hate mongers. Nearly all of the accusations I’ve placed at the feet of top leadership here I have freely admitted to being guilty of myself. My original post on this thread was to express my interest in reconciling with Craig, and helping him recover as my brother. Now, wyh don't we bring this to the "Masters" thread in the Doctrinal Forum to hash it out and allow this topic to continue. I've been warming up after my vacation and am ready to go at it there.

WordWolf, You wrote: “If there were many claims that users found the carburetor of the 1952 Ford Snowhopper to be inferior and problematic, would you accuse them of focusing on negatives? (Maybe I shouldn't ask...)” Maybe you should ask Craig… and get this back on topic. I come in here and post my piece, ON TOPIC, with my heart included (labeled an advertisement) and people pile on me who just can’t stand to have a contradictor on the premises (like how TWI is always accused of behaving). Then I am accused of derailing because I answer back my accusers! If some of you people had the power to ban me (M&A in TWI lingo?) you’d certainly do it without as much as a second thought, then turn right around on this thread or another and complain how Craig would do the same things. The whole world is watching.

templelady, I’m sure I’ll get blamed for derailing this thread by answering you again, but here goes. I didn’t assume you lack the true God’s blessings, I OBSERVED it. When people are blessed they talk about positive things, and are not attracted to negatives and do not amplify negatives. The love of God “thinketh no evil” yet you objected to my suggesting that Craig might be allowed forgiveness. (ATTENTION Topic Police! I am attempting here to bring it back on topic!) When people wallow in negatives they lack the True God’s blessings. This happens to me sometimes too, and then I bring my mind back to … … … you know what.

Just Thinking, You wrote: “Lookin' for the redirector... Page 2. It's Mike! Whole lot 'o redirectin' goin' on... TWI II was bad but not my VP! Whole lot 'o redirectin' goin' on...” If you don’t like me re-directing things when I show up, maybe you ought to get a hold of a message with substance. Then you can get people’s attention and stand your ground. When people who only want to bitch and moan try to obscure you message, you cant expose their shallowness too. I’d like some company in this re-directing. There were a lot of bad things that happened in the ministry. Because the Word says there’s evil in all men, all of Adam’s descendants, I know Dr had evil to deal with in his life, just like you do. How well are you dealing with your evil? Come back to PFAL and find God’s help on this again. The only areas of the ministry I see that are truly good are the revelations that God had Dr put into written form. Let’s get back to the topic now. I’m tired of re-directing this thread. I may have some more things to say to Craig in this open letter later.

templelady, I am sorry to hear that bad things happened in your family, and I would like to help you with your painful situation. However, I insist on proceeding in a Godly manner. If you think the passing along of only one side of a story without due process is not gossip, then let’s invent a special word for it, and I will not partake in that either. I’m not a trained investigator so I’m not going to even try to look into your case here in a public setting. If you did not go to the proper authorities, then maybe you ought to. This board is not the proper authorities. I focus on what God wrought in Dr’s ministry that I experienced and what I have in print. I know mistakes were made in the ministry, especially after Dr’s death, but I will not focus on them here on this public board. How would you expect one of the members of Uriah’s family to behave after his murder? Should they support the killer King David or not? If you think this is a hypothetical situation, it is not. Many people in ancient Israel had to decide whether or not to support David in the years after Uriah’s murder. They were traumatized, and had to deal with it, but the ones who saw that God still supported David were in the right. Those who abandoned David were in the wrong and missed out on the blessing God would have supplied them in David’s subsequent Psalms. I have been traumatized by some people in my life. I know what it is like to hunger for revenge. I resist it daily. Without God and His Word this is impossible. If you want me to help you to deal with the trauma you face, I will only do it in private, and not here. I can help you get back to God and His Word, but I cannot help you with the vengeance you seek. You’ll have to wait on God’s justice, and quit trying to implement your own. God will make it up to you and your family if you continue to walk with Him.

I think the ratio was 1000:1 Dr blessing us. You have not even come close to seeing the finality of the blessings in PFAL.

Al Poole, You wrote: “If God were doing the picking... I'm sure it would have been someone else. GOD DIDN"T PICK wee p w picked... I know you think they're the same but .... NOT” According to the Bible God picked King Saul, David, and Solomon as well as Balaam and Judas to stand for Him and speak forth His Word, in spite of their flaws. According to your criteria, He didn’t. I reject your criteria. I do NOT think Dr and God are the same, only that in some writings (PFAL) and some spoken words, Dr got it accurate form God, and that in these situatioons Dr spoke with all the authority of God almighty, just like we were taught (RHST p.113 7th ed.) that at Corneilus’ house Peter spoke with all the authority of God Almighty.

templelady, I have no idea. I wasn't there, and I haven't collected any first hand data from it, nor could I. I choose not to engage in such gossip. Can you tell me why God installed David as King when he went on to not only have an affair and knock up Bathsheba, but that he then KILLED her husband? Can you tell me why God overlooked that the best He could, and went on to give David more revelations to write down when he got back in fellowhip? The spiritual you is anemic. It needs to feed off the pure Word. Come back to PFAL and get that spiritual side cooking again. Then you’ll understand AT LEAST why God still worked with David.

WordWolf, Thank you for repeating my commercial, free of charge. :D-->

dmiller, I'll accommodate you. Forgiveness is an ability that only spiritual people are capable of. I myself struggle with it at times, but I continue to learn about it more, day by day.

Weout1200, Such is the nature of YOUR wounded hearing.

Dear Craig, Since this is an open letter to you, I want to open up with a sincere salutation. You are my brother in Christ, I love you, and we are in a wonderful family that has an amazing capacity for forgiveness when we walk with Jesus Christ and our Father. Since the context of this thread is so negative and speculative, I might as well indulge a little. I have often wondered how much worse things would have gone if anyone else but you were placed in the top position in 1982. We have seen in scripture that God picks the best He has available to do such demanding jobs as running a ministry to serve God’s people. I have come to learn that your failures at TWI are typical of the human condition of not having been born with spirit, and the 5-senses orientation we all were saddled with in our youth. It is comforting to know that from 1942 to 1982, and then until 1985, God blessed us with the service of Dr. Wierwille to put into written form this Word that will totally reverse this human condition of separation from God and His will. Of course you are not the only failure in the TWI debacle that followed Dr’s death, as all of us are now licking our wounds from not being obedient to our father in the Word’s final instructions to master PFAL and kick out all profane doctrines. You have served as the prototype of what will happen to us if we fail to follow Dr. Wierwille’s final instructions in mastering PFAL. Of course, our symptoms and consequences will vary from yours as well as they vary from each other, but the main result will be the same in inability to accurately operate all nine of the manifestations of holy spirit. However, I prefer to focus on the scenario where we all finally obey Dr’s final instructions and read what’s written in PFAL, master it, and live it. I look forward to your recovery and your ability to return to the Body of Christ as we carry out Dr’s final instructions to master PFAL. It will be exciting to see what you are able to do along with us within the Body of Christ as we rise to meet the Lord in the air, in the God-breathed air of pure doctrine in PFAL. Please feel free to contact me for any help I may be capable of offering in accelerating your return to PFAL and to genuine service to the Body. Agape, Mike

This may be one of the reasons I've heard rumblings that a change in bookstore policy is imminent.

That's what I thought you said, and that's what I answered to. I had to go through a lot of intermediary steps to see the shirts in there, but it IS conceivable.

Call me quixotic, but yes, I can imagine it. But it does take a little warming up.

Not even if they sold GreaseSpot T-shirts? :D-->

gladtobeout, I had the same question you have: Why not re-open the bookstore to the public? I’ve been asking this question behind the scenes, and I hear rumblings from on high that they may very well do this, open the bookstore, very soon. I sense a slow corporately sluggish move on their part to change the bad decisions of the past. I see many reasons they could be moving so slowly, and some are even quite valid. I’m betting my money they will re-open the bookstore soon. Maybe they already HAVE, and just aren’t making any big announcements. Has anyone tried to place an order lately?