Mike

Oops! Maybe I didn't wait long enough to post my post. I haven't read this thread close enough to see that a sub-drama was still going on. I think sirguessalot was more waxing poetic, and just didn't cover all the angles. ...and I wonder if LLPOF is still reading this.

Liarliarpantsonfire, May I call you Liarliarpantsonfirey? Thanks… Just kidding… not about the “thanks” part, but … Hey I think it’s interesting how many things you and I agree on… and what’s even more interesting are the much fewer things we disagree on. Actually our disagreements might more lie in the HOW category, rather than in the content category. I think socks was hitting on some of it it pretty accurately. Paraphrasing that part of his post I’d put it thusly: you have to EARN great respect before you can command it. Now Llpofy, it’s no coincidence that Dr’s very last teaching hits on this very point, that respect must be earned and cannot be demanded. These are some of Dr’s dying last words (exact tape transcript) to you and me: “See, every twig coordinator ought to know what's happening in his twig, among his people. He ought to know his people very well so he can minister to them. You can't help somebody if you don't know there's a need there. So a twig coordinator really has to get close to his people -- to know. And people are usually hesitant to really tell ya what they need until -- you have earned their respect. “And you earn people's respect by serving them the Word of God and loving them-- and then learning to keep your mouth shut. You just -- you just never tell anything; you just help people.” It’s no coincidence that this very section of Dr’s last teaching was botched in the editing of its Way Magazine version. The entire first paragraph that I quoted above was actually lost, so the magazine article reads very poorly where Dr elucidates this vital principle. Most of the top leadership completely lost sight of this principle in such a big way it dwarfs the magazine typo. You lost sight of this principle too (it seems to me) when you barged in here like you did. Speaking of accuracy, socks also hit on another pertinent point in his post: that of typing typos. (Thanks socks, for that corroboration of Dr’s push for accuracy in the print product of TWI back then. I too saw him operate that way in staff meetings and posted it here.) So Llpofy, I’d suggest at least a few proof readings with a spell checker to back you up. Please e-mail or PT me. I’d like to discuss these things backstage with you a bit more. You can find thorough documentation of the tape and magazine versions of Dr’s final instructions to us in this thread: “Dr's Last Teaching - LOST for 17 Years!” which is posted at: http://gscafe.com/groupee/forums?q=Y&a=tpc...=3516027781&p=1 Magazine version is on page 30 about half way down, and the tape transcript is on page 1 a few posts down the page.

Sirtoddalot, Howdy. Had any good seven second delays lately? We should get Oakspear out to San Diego for beer some night. Mind if I chime in here? I've been following this very wierd thread some, and waited to say my part.

Raf, You wrote: “YOU HAVE NEVER HONESTLY CONSIDERED THE POSSIBILITY THAT PFAL IS NOT GOD-BREATHED.” This is a lie. In addition to your vicious tone, your facts are wrong. It wasn’t until 6 years ago that I even TRIED to believe that PFAL was God-breathed. I have posted here that I wrestled with PFAL’s general validity often. It being totally God-breathed NEVER was a part of my thinking. In my early years I saw others totally accepting it, and I had many doubts. I even actively resisted their notions at times, and even have pieces of such resistance in writing. Yes, in my early years I developed the notion that there were many sections in the video of “straight prophecy” and I often held tight to this. However, even this was often challenged. I wish I were the man you describe me too be, but I wasn’t. My discipline and adherence in decades past was terrible, compared to many of my compatriots. I wavered often, and that’s one big reason I never tried to climb the ladder of leadership in the ministry. Another is that I had lots of doubts regarding many pieces of the doctrine. I’ve posted here often on the trinitarian bouts I had. My past is riddled with periods of great doubt. I don’t know if you are putting together your assessment of my past history from guessing, or from a 5-senses assessment of my posts, or if you think you are getting revelation. If it’s the latter, you have a big problem.

Raf, I totally thought that through long before I started posting. Almost every argument here against me I had already thought of myself. My question to you is do YOU ever consider your idolatry to tradition and your own brains? Have you given my arguments due consideration?

I will admit this. When and where I am in the majority, it occurs to me that something may be wrong. It's not proof of any kind, but I see it as cause, not for alarm, but for extra alertness. Why? Because the adversary is very skilled at whipping together majorities.

Raf, You wrote: "You have so established a lack of trustworthiness that your denials prove my conclusions more than any recap or quote of your idolatrous rantings." Well! In THAT case... I deny my above post and I admit I love it when I'm persecuted! :D-->

Raf, Well you succeeded in dragging me back here. You wrote: “The fact that one's views are rejected are not an indicator that they are right.” I totally agree with this statement. I did not mean to imply the opposite in any post of mine or in anything I’ve ever said in my life. I saw the what I call the Martyr-Verification Fallacy long ago in groups like the Mormons and JW’s, and would never make the same mistake myself. My post about the 400 to 1 was not an assertion of proof that I am right, not did I intend to imply that. That post was to simply refute a poster’s implication that the significance of the statistics is proof that I’m wrong. I invoked the 400 to 1 account to demonstrate that what I call the Majority-Verification Fallacy. In no way do find comfort that the majority rejects me here. It’s hard work to continually work my mind to not feel discouraged at these statistics, but I got real good at this skill long ago, long before GreaseSpot and Waydale when I was fighting the Geer majority that existed in San Diego after the meltdown. When I went to the CES meetings here during the same time period, again, I’d be in the vast minority within that context, and had more opportunities to learn this skill of ignoring statistics. Back in the 70's, when I was deciding on the trinity, the majority trinitarians was constantly shoved in my face as proof, and I had no trouble rejecting it. Raf, you are totally wrong in your guess that I find any comfort in these statistics against me, and that’s not the only guess of yours about my internal state of mind that’s totally wrong.

Refiner, I think the silent ones are silent for a number of reasons, but the largest may likely be that they are not skilled in typing. Without that skill, engaging in the ferocity of the debates here is pretty difficult. Another reason for silence is that no one wants to be subject to the same wrath I have volunteered for. It took a lot for me to accept this job, because I knew from several years of silent reading myself what I’d be subjected to. I volunteered because I saw that the ones who went before me had much less ammunition. I felt that because I was given so many answers, it was my duty to speak up for the cause and the others who were given less. As far as totally agreeing with me, there are only a few I am aware of, then a few more who are pretty darn close. *** While at work it dawned on me that I didn’t communicate my intention very well in my response to your earlier post of congratulations to me. The “thank you” part went well, but I should have also said something more like: I can’t take credit for having such a strong character deserving of your congratulations. When given the luxury of truth that fits so well, I can relax with God, knowing I am right in spite of the opposition. I think that better communicates what I wanted to say. Then there are two other points I totally forgot to mention: that I really love the people here, even the ones who pile-up on me, and I had in previous years and decades often felt the exact same feelings they express here.

Thank you Refiner. I enjoy the luxury of being right, so I can relax with God. There have been a few times when I blew my stack, but I'm only human.

Refiner, Some have noticed a decline in activity when I take long breaks.

alfakat, You wrote: "Or is it that 56 people just do not GIVE a psshi-ite about you and your lunacy anymore" So, what does that say about the 18 who voted? :D--> See what I say it says in the 12:56 PST post at: http://gscafe.com/groupee/forums?q=Y&a=tpc...606009165&p=149 Oops! Make that 20 now.

Zixar, Another telling statistic, conveniently omitted, is that at this time only 18 people voted. I saw a list of 74 people who disagreed with me last summer. Can we say that there’s been a huge decrease in the numbers from 74 to 18? Or do you think that not all the statistics are registered?

Hmmm! The Somegoodpointites outnumber the Uttergarbageites by two to one! That's nice. :)-->

Oakspear, At first it was only a joke, but now I seriously think this should be in the About the Way forum so more people can see it. Remember, this is the Doctrinal Dungeon.

I didn't vote. ;)-->

Oakspear, Don't you think this thread belongs in the "About the Way" forum? :D-->

Bluzeman, I appreciate your appeal for moderation. However Garth is half correct. I did plug my wares, but not where he thought. The attitude Garth spoted was directed at the rumor mill and it’s operation, but was not a promotion of anything in my message. The place where I plead guilty to advertising (we all do it, you know) was at the end of my post. There I reminded people that memory is iffy, with the not-so-hidden implication that a tape or printed record is MUCH better. I bring up the non-trustworthiness of memory a lot in my posts. It was trusting in our memory that tricked us OLGs into thinking that we had mastered PFAL enough when all through the mid 70’s to mid 80’s Dr was telling us to crack the PFAL books. Steve!, I owe you for repeating my message… and Garth, I guess I owe you for pointing back to it, and giving me this opportunity to expand on it all. If you two’d have just let things slide by, like the moderation Bluzeman appealed for, then I’d not owe you so much. How will I ever repay?

Please accept my apology for the faux pas. The connection goes back centuries, four or five I think. People and boundaries in that region have shifted over the centuries. In the movie, the name of the town is printed on the screen for a few seconds as they enter it. I can’t remember if it’s a black screen in the background or scenery. That’s how memory is: flaky.

Apology to Tom Strange :(--> I misread the thread, and thought you were it's originator. What do you want me to do? Edit it out for Bogey76’s sake? Sorry to you too Bogey76. ;)-->

Well Oldiesman, if it hadn’t been for your quickdraw, this thread might have been another Tom Strange snowjob! It wouldn’t have gotten TOO far, though. In “Saving Private Ryan” the town’s name is spelled with a “W.”

Thanks Oldiesman. I was getting ready to call tomorrow. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were many reasons tugging at the BOD to reverse the Craig Era error of shutting the bookstore off to the “non faithful.” I’d like to think the nobler of the reasons were dominant. So I see this as two positive moves by the BOD in 6 months time: first the request to post, and now the fall of the wall around the bookstore. If my theory of noble intentions is correct, what positive move might WE make to encourage their momentum? Something to think about.

Goey, Didn't you ever see the good old days, where the love and power worked abundantly? -->

Goey, You overlooked a much better scenario, that they ADD me to the BOD. :D--> That way I could stand up for you's guys there in a board meeting the same way I stand up for the BOD here. ;)--> I see us ALL as family, displaced. :(--> But it's only temporary! :)-->

Goey, They may be phasing out WAP, just very slowly, and eventually come back to PFAL. Assuming still that it’s factual and the bookstore actually IS open to us all, I don’t look at this as back pedaling, as someone here called it. I like to think of people in TWI, even leaders, as my family. We all know something went terribly wrong in there and that they need help. Sure most disagree with me as to exactly what went wrong, and thus disagree on the solutions, but we ALL know they are hurting in there. GreaseSpoters like to think that help is being offered to innies here, so thinking and posting the worse possible scenarios of them in there is no way to entice any innies to receive such offers for help. I will try to think the best, as that’s what agape is all about. Let’s think through just SOME of the reasons they act slow on fixing things: During Craig’s reign there were some in TWI’s leadership structure who more enthusiastically supported Craig and all his decisions, and there were some who were less enthusiastic, even harboring grave doubts about him. Now that Craig has been deposed, there is a HUGE tension between these two groups within TWI. In my searches for information I’ve talked to several innies and this tension is very obvious. To keep the peace within the organization, top leadership there must proceed very slowly in distancing themselves from Craig and his policies, but NOT from those leaders still within but who HAD been ardent Craig supporters. The Craigites within are being given some space to change their thinking slowly, and the anti-Craigites are not being given too much “I told you so!” material, too fast. I think TWI can change for the better. I’m not looking for revenge but for reconcillioation.Those here lusting for blood, and want to see TWI humiliated even more, will never be satisfied with any scenario that plays out as time goes by. But for those of us who were serious about our spirituality back in the good old days, and are still working on agape love, thinking of all innies as family and looking to help heal is the only way to proceed with the True God. So I think of them as family, in spite of our huge disagreements, just like I think of GreaseSpotter grads as family. We’ve all seen ONE huge move on TWI’s part to start a peace process with Harve Platig’s letter of recognition that the Grease Spot Café is a valid discussion forum. Then we saw another huge move that Pawtucket made in diplomatically accommodating him, yet not flinching from his position. (Harve might have thought that if Paw allows ME to post, he’d allow TWI to post.) Let’s look at this bookstore news as huge move #3 and celebrate!