Mike

.........then why do you read it?

Joni Mitchell and the Jefferson Airplane did sing "we got to get back to the Garden." What characterized the Garden was God's voice being clear and strong, and the 5-senses were unable to dominate. After the doors were locked there was no direct spiritual link and the 5-senses dominated, with only a still small voice able to get through to those few who got spirit upon. Yes we got to get back to that Garden, or something even better. We got to rise up to meet the lord in the air. ******* E GADS! Look at all those posts since I went away for a nap! And LONG ones too! Hey, folks, if I missed something important in posts #134 through #141 please bring my attention to it. I'll do my best to catch up.

Add this too: I have an actual rule for faith and practice. Add this too: I ask and ask for someone to place THEIR actual, physical, see-able, weigh-able, RULE for faith and practice ON THE TABLE and no one can answer me aside from flimsy abstractions. Oh, wait a minute. Maybe you do have a God-breathed book, or at least one you think is God-breathed and therefore adhere to with al your might. Tell me, Tom, do you have a physical book that's greater than you? I mean one where you dare not change anything, and one where if it and you differ on a point, then it's YOU that must change, and not the book. Tell me Tom, what's bigger than you that commands your ultimate respect? Do you re-write your own book as your mood changes? Or is your book rock solid?

Here's my favorite sage saying something superbly significant: Matthew 15 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 10 ¶And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: 11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. 12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? 13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. 14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. doojable, Do you remember Dr teaching in the class about Adam and Eve being kicked out of the Garden and a flaming sword (or something like that) keeping them out? THAT looks like a tightly locked door to me. Do you also remember hearing Dr teach that it was a GOOD thing that God did such a thing? My GOSH! There's so much to teach here!

******* Oh yes He DOES! It's from the WRITTEN Word that we first come to know how to separate the true God from the counterfeit. Without that written Word we have no legitimate starting point. Mastering the written Word in the senses realm is the first necessary step to rising to a spiritual understanding. God's Word is as much God as God is God.

God wants all to be saved AND to come unto the knowledge of the truth. But we know God does not always get His way. Sin, sickness, confusion, and death are all contrary to His will, but they happen anyway. Who do you think makes those things happen in defiance of God's will? When you accurately discern the spirit responsible for those things, then you will have your answer to who locked the doors.

Yes, I agree. It was the books effect on me that caused me to accept and see that Dr was correct in claiming that some of his writings were God-breathed. Of course, most posters here howled at the idea FOR YEARS HERE at the idea that Dr made such a claim... until I posted 22 of them. No, I never thought it would be MY claim would have the effect on the book of making it God-breathed. I lined up with the book being God-breathed, and not the other way around. The book did not lined up with me. *** And boy, oh boy, AM I tired of the pony story! It reminds me of Job's miserable comforters who would pronounce accurate ideas, but ideas that had no application to Job's situation. He rejected their ideas as non-applicable just as I reject the phony pony.

Of course I have seen it. AND I "got" your phony story. I simply REJECT it. If PFAL is not God-breathed then nothing is, and the Father eludes us. If you think you have ANY idea where and how to find God in your life, tell us the God-breathed documents from which you got such an idea. I accept PFAL based on what I see in it. You reject PFAL based on your NOT seeing it. I'm riding your pony while you have given up ever even finding it!

I disagree. I've shown that we forgot a lot and we never absorbed a lot. What will be shown MUCH MORE dramatically to you will be what FATHER shows you when you return to re-learn PFAL.

Ok, Frank. I can agree to that. I appreciate civility.

waysider, So that's your big message? That's all the wisdom you can conjure? ...that life is an illusion? ...that God the Father wants to elude us? Sad. I don't buy your analogy at all. Let's fix it up a little, knowing that all analogies fail somewhere when they are over stretched. I buy a GM fixer-upper car, with a full and accurate disclosure of it's faults. I drove it for months as-is, and it fails to perform and/or breaks down worse and/or gets me into an accident... I blame the seller of the car. Tell me what's wrong with me here? Do I have a legitimate complaint? *** It doesn't take too many brains to see that if a partial or inaccurate body of knowledge is acted on, then unintended negative results should be EXPECTED. WordWolf has posted some famous quote to this effect here lately. Over and over time after time I have shown here to poster after poster that crucial information provided by the teacher was either forgotten or never absorbed by us his students. Hey! It happened to me too! I just got smart enough to come back to PFAL and see what is written. I had forgotten much of what was written in the collaterals. I had allow to slip by me much crucial information that I needed to absorb. I again discovered that learning is an exciting adventure.

johniam, do you have that paste of Dr's claim handy for this occasion? We can argue a lot about this supposed demotion of Jesus. It's bunk and I can (and have) proved it here. It surely did not happen for me, but I clearly DID see the forces in operation within the ministry that were set to do just that. We just need to be clear that the fault was with the students (again) on this one... and not with the teacher. But rather than argue, I'll agree with your last sentence, and that's why I red fonted it. Seems once the light is shed, the darkness goes away.... In fact, that's exactly what the cartoon in post #86 is supposed to indicate. That's exactly what we were being taught in the early 80's to combat the baloney. It is a shame that so few paid attention to it and/or remember it.

Keys unlock doors.

Why didn't it bother you back then, doojable? It did me, so I dealt with it. It was only after dealing with the tools I had available to me that I started to see it was good and proper. I think if you deal with it from within God's Word you'll feel better.

Those readers who are NOT so religiously inclined might want to show Greek2me just exactly where Jesus Christ is involved in the cartoon of post #86, since he is so obviously missing it.

In looking at the above cartoon images I am remembering more from that time. What I remember was where we got the ideas for that illustration. A verbal teaching was circulating that the mere speaking of the Word was all that was needed to deal with most devil spirits, and that ritualistic announcements and castings out, complete with body language and sound effects WERE TOTALLY UNNECESSARY. The Word, spoken in love, was all that was needed to drive out most spirits sans ceremony.

Does anyone remember this? Donnie Fugit taught in the "Witnessing and Undershepherding" class that "The goal of all witnessing is Power For Abundant Living." That bothered me for a while, and then I finally got it.

I'm sure it counts for SOMETHING. I am sorry about your friend.

Hi Ham, It never occurred to me to try it. However, in the late 80's I did some talk radio comedy where I developed a Radio Mime bit. Then, a few years ago, I adapted it into two separate stand-up comedy bits. It was fun.

Frankly, I don't think you get the point. Yes, there were abuses. No, they were not unnoticed. Some of us tried to do something about it. What did YOU do about it back then, to help people, in this area? What are you doing NOW about it?

Ok, I've been learning how these things work a little. Here is the cartoon I was talking about in post #22 of this thread: I don't know how to crop yet, so I had to include Key #7 also. Please study this cartoon image. Blow it up to see all the detail the artist, Kellagh Tubb, put into it. There was a lot of love put into this, as some of us were WELL aware of the many abuses raging in the early 80's. Many thousands of AC students and grads saw this poster, which was available at two AC classes run here in SD in '81 and '84 (not sure of this last date). I don't know if it was used at any other ACs. How much better things would have been if this key had been more prominent in our minds!

Thanks for the help. The file is still on my hard drive. I think my attempt to upload it did fail. I've never used photobucket or anything like it before. Isn't the upload button (seen below when editing/posting) supposed to get the file to Greasespot's hard drive, and then I'd supply THAT url (whatever it is...) ? What's the difference between uploading and attaching in that same editing/posting set of buttons ?

...or they could be Googlebots.

Ok, I have a theory. The guests seem to be clustered on certain threads. They may be teams of spambots, looking for e-mail addresses. ?

No, why? What perchance prompted you to pose in prose that proposition?