Mike

waysider, Thank you. I have no animosity to you either. I know these things get difficult. I'd like to respond more to your earlier post, and from the animosity free perspective you just provided here.

...my, my... aren't we fosisticated!

I was asking about the Greek line you quoted. What text is that exact quote from, and in which century was the ink still wet? So tell me, you're happy with verse 17 as you quoted it and as it appears in the KJV? Man, I nearly had a cow when I saw that verse. It didn't sit well with me at all. I wonder how many other grads either never saw that verse and passage, versus how many were religiously complacent in accepting it, contradictions, destruction and all. *** Don'tWorryBeHappy, I think the originator of this thread has not been here to hear your questions. He was a new guy that somewhat seems to have come and gone. Thanks for the "feel free to take another couple of hundred posts to answer my questions if you need to." I don't NEED to delay at all, though. It's a pedagogical device to delay an answer to allow more posters to wake up to it, or to swing on by and see it. You are unusually impatient at times about getting answers. I suspect you're just new and don't know the ropes as to how boards work. You have to hang in there for more time to get them all answered. Show your face more. As for the questions you have of me, about Jesus Christ and the Orange book, that goes back through several years of consistent, persistent (and even IMO deliberate) misunderstandings of one LONG LOST post I did here years ago. You can be content for the time being, though, with the following. If... notice I say "IF"... IF the contents of the PFAL book were given by inspiration of God to VPW's teachers and to VPW as to how to "put it all together," then Jesus Christ is perfectly lined up with it, right? What I've ACTUALLY SEEN was posted once or twice here, and was spit upon and maligned. I prefer to reserve it for those who want to believe again. Hey! Let me ask YOU a question. How did you reconcile I Cor3:17 back in the good old days? *** Jonny Lingo, In think we're supposed to keep handles confidential.

“Calling all cars! Calling all cars! Topic Derailment underway!” With that the tin voice jumping out of the radio squelches off, tires screech on, and the Topic Police are on the way! Dum dum dum, da da dumb! Dum dum dum, da da Daaaaah! Dum dum da da dumb dumb! Whenever the laws of any state are broken, a duly authorized organization swings into action. It may be called the State Police, State Troopers, militia, the Rangers, the Highway Patrol, or the TOPIC POLICE ! “There they are driver, pull over here. Let’s ask some questions,” barks out the Chief. Slamming the brakes into a dusty halt, the officers scramble out and surround the thread, blocking all the exits. The Chief slowly walks right up to the assembled posters. “Nobody leaves until we get to the bottom of this. Ok, frank123lol, you’re first, because you filed the complaint. What kind of a name is that anyway, huh? No capital “F’ to begin it with? How punk is that? And how am I going to believe anyone with lol in their name?” The chief laughs out loud at his own lame joke, looking back at his companion officers for support as they sheepishly nod and grin. But frank123lol stands his ground and points to post #23. “Look, Mike is posting his usual stuff, but the thread is about music. I brought it back. You should be proud of me. I’m helping you do your job.” Spitting at frank123lol’s feet, the Chief doesn’t like being put in his place so he looks for his next victim. “Ok, Mikey. Let’s hear what you have to say about that post. I’ve got a few seconds to burn before I bust you!” “But, but...” stammers Mike feigning weakness to placate the Chief. “Golly Chief, I was just responding to previous posting. It looked like it was already derailed into the topics I usually like to reserve for better fitting threads. I’d be happy to help you do your job too. Please, let me ask you for your professional opinion about what happened ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE. This situation started back farther than post #23.” The Chief spits again and tries to intimidate Mike. “Don’t call me CHIEF! Ok, Rico, let’s look at that page and see if we can round up any more suspects from it. I feel a promotion coming on.” Some non-posting reader standing nearby quips “But you’re already Chief. How can you be promoted any farther than chief?” The Chief, already caught up in the dialog, totally ignores the non-poster and reads the earlier posting. “Ok, music, music, music, a little twi bs, music, music, more light ministry bs, ok, ok.” The Chief tries to spit, but comes up dry. Then his eyes bulge out on post #20. “Hey frank1233lol, why didn’t you call me here at THIS post? Mike was totally on topic in his post #19 and then SKYRIDER brought up the antithesis of Mike’s Topic. It looks like skyrider was trying to goad him into a long harangue on that heavy twi bs when it was pretty confined to music and light bs? I’ve seen this before. It wastes my time and the taxpayers money.” Da da da DAHHHH This time the Chief finds spit and it’s a big logey. Da da da DAHHHH “Find this skyrider character and book’m.” The Chief turns back to the car in disgust nearly bowling over his two fellow officers. Mike is quietly vowing to never allow himself to be goaded again, frank123lol is asking around if anyone has a capital “F’ he could borrow until payday, and skyrider is “acting natural” with jittery hopes that the Chief doesn’t look back and recognize him... or her... Dum dum dum, da da dumb! Dum dum dum, da da Daaaaah! Dum dum da da dumb dumb! Whenever the laws of any state are broken, a duly authorized organization swings into action. It may be called the State Police, State Troopers, militia, the Rangers, the Highway Patrol, or the TOPIC POLICE !

Ham, You didn't answer my question. Did you ever work on understanding I Cor 3 ? Is this new material to you, too?

Yes I have studied that extensively. The best writing on it I've seen in Rudy Rucker's "Infinity and the Mind." Russell's paradox is closely related to Godel's Theorem. The best I've seen on that is found in the Pulitzer Prize-winning "Godel, Escher, Bach" by Douglas Hofstadter. The contradictions in I Corinthians 3 are illusory, stemming from erroneous mind pictures of the translators and one mistranslated word. With the proper translation of that word the contradictions easily disappear. But the contradictions in Russel's paradox are not so easy. Fairly recently I alluded to Russel's paradox in a post here. I mentioned that a graduate student put on the dedication page of his thesis: "This thesis is dedicated to all those students who do not dedicate their thesis to themselves." The paradox comes in asking if that particular graduate student included himself in that dedication... or not... *** So, Ham, do YOU see the problem with verse 17? Had you worked ON this passage of Corinthians ever? Long ago I assumed that all grads read their KJVs, and ESPECIALLY those epistles addressed to them. More and more I get the impression that many (or even most) posters here not only neglected their collaterals, but their KJVs as well.

Did you ever read that section of Corinthians before? Did you wonder over why that verse 17 seems to do a back flip? Do you see NOW how that verse seems to contradict itself? I Cor.3:17 (KJV) If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Well Ron, I guess you reject and laugh at this too: Matthew 12 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. 33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. 34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. No, no, doojabble. There's no burden here. It's easy. The burden is for those folks who have NOT re-searched their KJVs but who are very diligent to research every nook and cranny of the TWI demise. If you don't see the contradictions I mentioned with that verse it might possibly be because you did NOT word this passage long ago?

You want to tell me when to do it... I ask you now if you see the contradictions...

Ham, What God will do later is well documented in I Cor 3.

T-Bone and doojabble, Now that you've had a little time do look at this, do you see these contradictions yet? Yikes, when I first read Corinthians, shortly after taking the class, and came across verse 17 it really bothered me. It just didn't fit at all. That same year I asked Walter about it, then re-searched the materials I could, and it was settled very quickly. NOW I love that verse! I'm quite surprised, though. I knew many grads had fallen short (myself included) in re-searching our collaterals, but this passage is in our KJVs. We were supposed to be studying that version (and others) prior to the completion of the collaterals. But is seems that this passage, and it's connection to forgiveness, is not well known here. Is there anyone here on this thread who re-searched their KJVs back then as well as they now research the demise of TWI?

Jonny, You've just struck on some of the heart in the verses preceding I Cor 3:17 Cool!

What was taught in that class blessed me. Dr's agenda was to teach us what God was teaching him. Dr was human, so because of what the Word says about humans, I knew he must have had sin in his life. When a human is out of fellowship with the Father, I'd suspect they drift in their goals and agendas. Doesn't the same happen to you? I'm sure it does, and if you deny it, then I'm even more sure.

I am very happy with how Dr. Wierwille steered me into understanding the scriptures. If it weren't for him I would have no understanding whatsoever. There's no one here who could have commanded my attention, and I doubt if anyone else could have either. Grads who took Dr's teaching without diligently cross referencing their KJVs and concordances to the best of their own ability often drifted from his teaching's meaning, often far too. This was called re-searching, and I did it. I never had any problem with being a member in particular, because I re-searched. I never had any problem with Christ being the head, because I re-searched.

That's so COOL! What that guy did was essentially the same thing that audio technicians do when they demagnetize a tape head. The same thing could have been done with one electromagnet running on AC power. Either technique works best if the demagnifier is gradually removed while it is still on.

I was just wondering where you got that line from and with what authority dies it stand, i.e., what text is that from. ...and also, brideofjc, do you see the KJV contradictions that I mentioned earlier.

The value of ANY analogy is found in the area where it does NOT break down. If you choose to look at the breakdown of an analogy it BECOMES useless, regardless of how useful it is in the area it was intended to be used. All analogies break down somewhere, and it usually doesn't take much brains to find that point. I like being a leaf, within the INTENDED confines of the analogy.

There IS a verse on the Return to that effect. It's another verse hardly any grads knew about, or at least the ones I tried to talk to about it. This verse is I John 2:28. It's not exactly your warm and soothing Return of Christ verse, unless you've been hurt and need to know that God evens the score sooner or later. This verse may apply to some posters here too, though, so be careful how much you want to see the verse happen. Can you imagine justifying your posts, each and every one, to Jesus Christ personally?

I had to leave my house for a while to run an errand. Now I have to search around to see if I have some pre-typed elaboration of that passage somewhere. How's the suspense building?

...timing... ...it's all timing... I'm hoping people are rushing to their Young's Concordances.

Yes! That strikes a memory chord. I think I even have it in my collection. I kept on thinking it was in High Country Caravan, but couldn't find it in that set.

T-Bone, You missed it. How can verse 17 be a warm and soothing verse when it talks that way? I'm often amazed at how so many grads are totally ignorant of this wonderful passage. When I first came across verse 17 it really bothered me. It seems to not only contradict the previous verses, it even seems to contradict itself! Do you see it? Do you see the contradictions? There's one word improperly translated in most versions that turn that verse from a warm and soothing one to a nasty, condemning SNL Church Lady verse. I hope someone here wants to see how this difficult KJV Corinthian passage is properly translated into a warm and soothing passage, and THEN how it furthers a deeper understanding of the Galatians verses so often flung about.

How much time have you put into I Corinthians 3 as it relates to these matters in Galatians? There's quite a long passage there from verse 5 to verse 17. We were taught to use ALL of the scriptures that relate. How many of the others besides Galatians do you use? If you have not extensively worked this area in Corinthians ALONG WITH Galatians, then you only have part of the story to begin with, let alone what you end up with. If you can't look at I Cor. 3:17 and feel safe, then this is uncharted seas for you and we have a lot of work to do. Just to test everyone's acumen here, how is this a warm and soothing verse? "If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." Really, rascal, if you can show me why this is a warm and soothing verse, then I'll know you worked the preceding verses in conjunction with what you preach on Galatians. It REALLY IS a warm and soothing verse, HONEST. I can show you how if you want to see it. There's a little translation problem. *** I look at the fruit IN MY OWN LIFE that resulted from the teaching I received (and still receive) from VPW and I know that the teaching is from God by that fruit I see IN MY OWN LIFE. I can’t look into your life and see your fruit at all. It’s in your heart and it’s not visible to me. God made it pretty private, didn’t He? Same for VPW’s fruit. I can’t look at that private fruit either, but I can look at his teaching and the fruit IN MY OWN LIFE and be very thankful to God. I can look a your teaching, and I can say “No thanks.” I look to Galatians to understand more about MY OWN LIFE, not someone else's. I learn about the fruit IN MY OWN LIFE there and I learn about sin IN MY OWN LIFE there. I don't go there so much to study others' lives. That's too private a thing to see clearly. *** We all got some things wrong in twi, and we all suffered some things, but I know we can look at the good we got and see good fruit again result from it. If we choose to look at the bad forever we’ll feel badly forever about it. But there WAS good that happened, and we owe it to each other to remind us of that. Those who continually insist on being resentful and negative in the face of growing and abounding good will reap negative fruit.aWe who are Jesus Christ men and women can look to the best that happened to us and we can learn to forgive. The Christ in us yearns to love supernaturally above and beyond reason.

Yes!! Thanks Peruser. I know I heard it on a SNS tape years ago. I thought it was a ministry written song, though. It was funny and a little rebellious (for religion), YET heartfelt, too.

rascal, I think I asked you something like this before, but it stands to be asked again: Just exactly HOW do you examine the fruit in someone else's life to judge it's absence or presence, and how much is there? When you do measure the fruit in someone else's life, what instrument do you use, and where do you get it calibrated? Also, what's the best brand to buy, and approximately how much does it cost? I'm also interested in what units it's measured in? Like inches, feet and yards are units of measure for distance, but in what units do you measure someone else's joy or peace or meekness or longsuffering or love? And also, (I'M just dying to know) do have any fruit files on anyone else besides VPW? ...like especially anyone here?