Mike

Context: Post #598 where I posted: "Yeah, a lot of that obfuscation stuff DOES happen here, especially in this thread. Has anyone else noticed that? There’s a style of TV show production that’s like this. I remember one early show that exploited this technique to the max and all the time. It was “The Love Boat.” Each episode was actually about 4 or 5 separate episodes contained within. The show’s story would switch back and forth between all the sub-plots. Since “The Love Boat” (which I hated for this VERY same reason: the segmented plots) I’ve seen many other TV shows do similar things. This thread’s jumping from obfuscation to obfuscation reminds me of “The Love Boat.”

Yeah, we want to keep the channel on "The Love Boat" here. Or, was that show "Fantasy Island" that did the calico script? Or was it both?

You mean that was the commercial, and now the camera is on ME? I forgot my place! Lines! Lines!

Yeah, a lot of that obfuscation stuff DOES happen here, especially in this thread. Has anyone else noticed that? There’s a style of TV show production that’s like this. I remember one early show that exploited this technique to the max and all the time. It was “The Love Boat.” Each episode was actually about 4 or 5 separate episodes contained within. The show’s story would switch back and forth between all the sub-plots. Since “The Love Boat” (which I hated for this VERY same reason: the segmented plots) I’ve seen many other TV shows do similar things. This thread’s jumping from obfuscation to obfuscation reminds me of “The Love Boat.”

It's a good thing none of that hubris stuff happens here!

The key word is "inheritance."

Want to see more of I Cor 3 ? There's light there.

Whew! How do you people handle all that sin-talk? I'm already past my limit, and think I could use a designated driver.

Yeah, I thought my subject was serious too, Paul's epistle. I guess that's the nature of this world. But you STILL don't want to Google that definition. Somebody else want to issue the warning?

You don't want to try and verify that definition on Google. Trust me!

Has anyone seen Research Geek lately? That previously prolific poster was pretty public with his cff affiliation, wasn't he?

The relatives of Uriah must have had a tough time forgiving David. The relatives of the believers Paul killed must have had a tough time forgiving Paul. How did they do it? *** I’ve had a tough time forgiving too. I mentioned that earlier. There were people and doctrines (TVTs) that hurt me and/or loved ones. So I’ve had to drive myself to deal with it in the best ways, and try hard to avoid the not-so-best ways. I Cor. 3 helped me forgive, putting it together with other scriptures. *** Let’s look at the first verse. (KJV) I Corinthians 3:1,2 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. There are two things going on here: some warm terms of endearment and some reproof. Let’s color the endearment portions red for warm, and the reproof portions blue for cold. And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. See what I mean? *** Next verses, 3 and 4: For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Brrrrrrrr! I’m getting empathy chills. Around THESE parts, those are food fightin’ words! If I were at that truck stop in Corinth reading those two lines on Paul’s letter I’d ask for a refill. Any questions why I put all that blue? Ok, let’s continue. I just had to warm my hands on the sides of my cup. Verse 5: Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? Ahhhhh! Warm. Verses 6 and 7: I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. So, the Corinthians were having their favorites as to which leader was more cool. Paul tells them that coolness is nothing, it’s spiritual stuff that’s important. He was urging them to WANT to grow up to a greater way of looking at things. They were looking at the flesh level, the 5 senses level. Some of the Corinthians grooved better with Paul, and some grooved better with Apollos, but that grooviness was superficial. It FELT good to them, but it was mental/emotional and only, on the soul level and not spiritual. Paul is teaching them of the spiritual perspective where grooviness is nothing. Paul is teaching that God gets the glory for all the good works that both he and Apollos had done for them. Verse 8a: Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: “One” in purpose. Paul and Apollos were one in purpose, united, like-minded in their helping the Corinthians and operating in the Body of Christ. Like their individual grooviness, their individual contributions were only significant on the 5 senses level. Spiritually they were one in the Body of Christ and it didn’t matter who did what. HOWEVER, and here’s where there’s a mistranslation, but it’s not the crucial controversial one. It’s a relatively simple one. Verse 8b reads in the KJV: ...and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. The word “and” can and should be rendered “but.” The next half verse is in contrast to the first half. Verse 8 a and b: Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: but every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. That reward part looked warming. Do you see the contrast there requiring “but” instead of “and” ? I wanted to rush this through so we could get to more warm verses. Verses 9-11: For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Wow. I need a rest. Let’s see what we have here. The warm areas tell me I have something to be thankful for. I received pneuma hagion so it has benefits that the warm portions remind me of. This helps me handle the carnal accusations at the beginning. Paul is saying that after teaching pneuma hagion to them, there was still more to advance towards. He was leading them and teaching them. He used himself and Apollos, another interesting character in the Body who they knew personally. Here is what we’ve covered so far: (KJV) I Corinthians 3: And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: but every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Timing. It's all in the timing. At least it to us. The people in PAUL'S time may have not cared much about "before" or "after." The relatives of the believers Paul killed must have had a tough time forgiving Paul. With God there is no time. It doesn't matter to Him which happens earlier and which happens later. God in His foreknowledge knew* that Solomon would sin in his later life, yet He gave him wisdom and riches in his early life. God sees and does things different that us sometimes. . ...scripture please (snap) (snap) The relatives of Uriah must have had a tough time forgiving David, and a tough time reading the collaterals David wrote AFTER the matter with Uriah. * Grammar Oddity - "in His foreknowledge knew" or grammar error. You be the judge.

Errata Data Toward the end of my Post #521 to Don’tWorry: “Robert Conrad” should read “Robert Conway." Reference is to the 1937 film “Lost Horizon” starring Ronald Colman.

Hi Exy, Thanks. I got very paranoid for a few minutes after posting that. I was worried how you'd take the phrase "yank her chain." It seemed AFTER POSTING to carry an implication of prison or leash. Yikes! That's NOT what I meant at all. It was just an expression. Eventually I realized it was misplaced fear I had of that misinterpretation, and that it wasn't you I should fear taking it that way. Yeah, that was fun to see Don'tWorry. I was happy. I knew him from Rye.

May I suggest to those people who thought my story was about VPW that you go back and read it again? It was not an analogy and it was not intended to portray Dr at all. When I was writing it, in order to come up with the stylizations to hide the century in which it took place, I held in my mind an image of Donny Fugit while I was typing.

I agree. The Galatians were pretty out of it, like the early Corinthians. They had no choice but to go the blunt simple way. They were not advanced enough to make the those kinds of calls I'm talking about. Spiritual maturity allows us to see things from God's perspective. From the human perspective Galatians is about the only safe way to proceed. The Galatians approach would line up with the First Corinthian letter where Paul told themn to throw that bad guy out. The Corinthians listened to the first letter and applied it. They graduated to the advanced level and were told to take the guy back in and love him in the second letter. I'm assuming these Epistles are well known to you. Are they?

Maybe that is why, in his last HQ teaching, Dr said that he would not put himself in the shoes of the Apostle Paul (or something like that). My adaptation (I like that word. Thanks.) was not intended to portray Dr at all. What I was showing is how Paul and God thought about that one guy who messed up, and how it got recorded in Corinthians. They separated the man from the sin. This separate treatment takes spiritual maturity, and Paul was guided, at first, to have both man and sin thrown out. The baby Christians at Corinth couldn't make that distinction in their minds yet. They hadn't risen to that level of understanding yet. It was after they worked on the first letter that they were ready to accept the man and distinguish him from the sin. Chapter three is also about this advanced-level separation or distinction.

Well, my day job is rained out. And it wasn't an analogy. I tried to keep it true to fact. It was just a third-person, abbreviated (highly abbreviated), paraphrase of both of Paul's letters to the Corinthians, stylized to try and hide it's identity at the beginning. There is NO analogy at all there.

I think it went the other way around. Paul was the prototype WOW Ambassador. The program was based on him. Comparing is ok; it's when equality is judged in the comparing that red flags might go up. But EVEN THEN comparing and finding equality could be ok if the equality is something God instituted, which He did in some instances. I compare myself with Jesus Christ all the time. I fall short of course, and then I try again, and compare again to see if I improved any. Someday we will compare ourselves with Jesus Christ and the proper result will indicate that we are LIKE him. *** But don't worry, you didn't spoil anything. I was planning on stalling after... uh ...er ...planning on RESTING after posting all that stuff anyway.

Hey there What the Hey! Long time no see. I'm glad to notice you posting here again. Please don't yank Exy's chain like that, though. Somehow she and I have gotten along here pretty well, and we were just playing back there. **** And I was just playing about quitting and being angry too. I had to go to the bathroom, but wanted to post SOME kind of response. So, where were we?

Ok, then I quit. No I Cor.3:17 exposition. You ruined it for all the others! <_<

I’d like to tell you folks a story. Since my time is a little limited this morning, I’m just going to type it out as I remember it. If I try to check my sources it will probably never get typed. If I blow it on some small detail, I doubt if the parties concerned will mind. It happened a long time ago and I think a few of them have even passed away by now. I got the story from a few middle men, and tracking them all down would take a lot of time. This is about a WOW, or a WOW vet, I heard about. Not a regular WOW but one of those “rover’s” like Gail and Francis Winegarner were. Actually, he wasn’t officially registered in the program when this set of incidents happened, but I remember we WOWs were encouraged at the end of our year to maintain that lifestyle as much as possible after the official year was over. Let’s call this unofficial WOW-vet Paul, even though that wasn’t his given name. *** Chapter One Paul was passing through, resting at a truck stop one day, and met some local folks who wanted to believe the Word. Now this was more than a truck stop, it was a small city, but pretty small... small enough to have zero TV stations, so it was more like a large town. It also had a sleazy reputation, being built up around the truck stop and all that went on there... hookers and drugs... the usual. Anyway, the people who believed were a little on the salty side, but that’s to be expected. They were certainly not goodie goodies, but they did have a heart for the Word. Being babes in Christ, Paul, the WOW-vet, tolerated a lot from them and a strong bonding took place. He actually ended up staying there for well over a year and they had a strong twig going, even though it was pretty isolated and pretty “unofficial.” Every neighborhood has its evil, even the “good” ones. Trouble with the good ones is that the folks can get pretty snooty pretty easily, with their evil trimmed and tucked and looking “not-so-bad.” The trashed neighborhoods have plenty of problems, but being snooty is NOT one of them. The people from the run down neighborhoods know they haven’t “made it” but the upper crusters get big heads and are often unreachable with spiritual matters. Anyway, these folks were VERY enthusiastic about the love and power of God. They were REAL, not religious. *** Chapter Two When Paul eventually had to leave he kept in touch as much as possible, but it was rare. While he was gone the inevitable happened and they drifted around from idea to idea, just like we all did when we were new in the Word. The got off the Word in several areas, but there’s just one that’s pertinent to this story. I remember in my early twig days, when the idea of “heaven bound and all hell can’t stop you from going” first fell on my RC ears. It was like wining the lottery. It seemed too good to be true, so I had to check it out. As it was emerging for me from the scriptures that, YES, I rescued out of the fear of hell fire, my mind went to test how much I could get away with... Eventually I learned (knock on wood) that though all things were lawful for me, it could still get pretty messy and inefficient if I didn’t walk by sound principles. Even though I was protected from eternal fire, there were OTHER bad things that could happen if I did NOT walk the Word. ...Well that same thing happened to our brothers and sisters at the “truck stop twig” too. Before you know it they were getting high at fellowship (kindle any memories old timers?) and partying too much. *** Chapter Three Then things started REALLY getting out of hand. They started playing one-upmanship in how far-out they could get. The local unbelievers took note of this, and word got out to the surrounding towns that this crazy group was over the line. The town always had a sleazy reputation, but these believers were pushing it to new limits. Finally the reports of all their shenanigans got back to our friend Paul, the WOW-vet, and he knew he had to do something. Because this was before the days of unlimited long distance phone plans, and before e-mail, and Paul was tied up in his new situation and far away, he only had snail-mail to communicate with them, so that’s what he did. He mailed them a letter. I think God had to have given him revelation because this is how it went down. One of the things Paul had to deal with in this letter was the way they were abusing the grace that God had extended to them. It turns out that one of the truck stop twig members had the bright idea of shacking up with his step-mother! And then, if you think that’s bad, the REAL killer was that the whole twig thought it was GREAT! They actually thought they were advertising that God was so good to tolerate them, and then that THEY were so spiritually hip that THEY tolerated this oddball sleeping with his mommy, or his dad’s wife! Kinda messy, right? So Paul writes them and shows them that several things were wrong in the way they were doing twig. When he got to the sex problems he told them that they have to chuck that oddball guy out or go down the tubes with him. Now here’s the cool part: they LISTENED! Now here’s the EVEN MORE COOL part. A little later, when Paul found out that they had listened and stopped fellowshipping with the oddball, he immediately wrote back and told them to take that guy back in! It was only a temporary measure, throwing him out, and that loving him back in was JUST AS IMPORTANT. *** Chapter Four Paul (by revelation I believe) saw that there was a difference between what that oddball was doing and the person himself. The guy was totally whacked out in his old man nature (aren’t we ALL!) but he himself also had Christ in there. Paul distinguished between the act and the actor. Flush the act, save the actor was his advice when you look at BOTH letters. If you only look at the first letter, the one where Paul told the Corinthians (the name of the truck stop was Corinth) to kick the dude out, it seems God was pretty harsh. But if you look at the WHOLE picture we then find out that God could see the difference between the man and the sin. Hebrews 4: 12 - “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” We humans, and especially our governments and laws, are dull and blunt. We can’t separate out the two, the difference between soul (with its stinky old man nature) and the spirit of Christ within. If someone’s old man nature freaks out and breaks a law then BOTH that stinker AND the Christ within are locked up together. That’s all mere humans can do in such a situation. What man is incapable of here, though, God CAN DO. It’s in THIS context (...so remember it, PLEASE...) that I’d like to begin looking at the third chapter from that first letter from our WOW-vet friend the Apostle Paul to the Corinthians. The End

Ok, all seriousness aside... ...want me to start quoting verses?