Mike

I agree. They are not evidence that PFAL is God-breathed. They are only evidence of two simple facts: (1) that VPW did document his belief that written PFAL is God-breathed. This amounts to recognizing that my thesis is not something I came up with, but was something VPW was stating for decades before he died. I did not originate my thesis. I got it on a verbal tip and from the 22 passages that I am posting. (2) that in many clever mechanisms these 22 statements were temporarily hidden from our sight back then. None of us saw this God-breathed PFAL thesis coming, but it was in the books and tapes for decades under our noses.

If this is news to you, please go back and see. I have documented HOW he hid them for each of the 7 posted so far. *** In a nutshell: when I tell any grad (not just here) that VPW said PFAL was God-breathed they say I'm crazy, and that I pulled that idea out of my hat or some orifice. When I tell people of the 22 "thus saith the Lord" statements of VPW they say they don't believe me. That's because VPW actually HID them in there. They are hidden in plain sight. If no body knows what I am talking about when I say VPW stated 22 times that PFAL is God-breathed then that means the 22 statements were hidden from them. They were hidden from me until someone showed me a few in 1998. Which is odd, because I knew about 2 of the 3 sledgehammers, yet didn't connect the dots. I even toyed with AUDIO pfal being God-breathed, but it NEVER occurred to me to think written PFAL.

I agree. I have stated the same several times. Right now I'm only trying to prove two little things: (1) I got my thesis from VPW's words. He stated many times that he was giving us the pure stuff. It's not really MY thesis but his. (2) We all missed these statements. He hid them right under our noses.

sorry. I didn't see them. I will find them.

Missing parenthesis in the discussion: The judgement of it containing errors was done using methods I disprove of. I call the detected errors that come from a faulty research machine "Apparent Errors." as opposed to actual, real errors. There are principles and tools we were taught in PFAL that were useful in dealing with a highly flawed document such as the KJV. The KJV is many years and many handlers far-removed from the originals. One such principle is the assumption that the originals were perfect. The printed PFAL collateral books we got are much closer in years and accuracy to the "originals" as they were being process for printing. There were a few printing and proofreading errors. Some were fixed before VPW's death, some were not. The apparent errors are not well researched with the attitudes and expectations I have seen here. I have had time to research a few. I want to get to them someday here. I offered once, but no takers, and got far removed from it.

I named the first 3 "thus saith the Lord" posted here the sledgehammer statements. They're up front and obvious VPW that is saying something very strong. Please go back and read them in their fullness. Abbreviated they are (1) every word I have written to you is true, (2) if you think this is just VP Wierwille writing you'll never receive the fullness, (3) not all that Wierwille writes will necessarily be God-breathed.

I'm NOT concluding that these statements are divinely inspired. You're not tracking with what I am proving. I am proving that VPW told us that he was giving us divinely inspired material, and that we didn't hear it with understanding. See the difference? VPW telling us that PFAL is God-breathed does NOT prove that PFAL is God-breathed. I'm only taking a baby step towards proving or demonstrating my thesis here. I'm proving that it is NOT my thesis, but something I saw VPW say in more than 22 ways. Once it is seen that VPW was TOTALLY on to the same thesis I have been proclaiming, THEN we can move on to other aspects of making the God-breathed nature of PFAL understood.

#4 - VPW "Thus Saith the Lord" Statement BTMS p. ix I know the contents of Volume I of Studies in Abundant Living will not only open up more of God’s Word for you, but will also uplift you – mentally and physically and spiritually. ... Let us put God’s Word in our hearts and minds for it alone can give us complete deliverance from the darkness of this world. #5 - VPW "Thus Saith the Lord" Statement TNDC p. ix, x Preface I know the contents of Volume II of Studies in Abundant Living will not only open up more of God’s Word for you, but will also uplift you – mentally and physically and spiritually. ... Let us put God’s Word in our hearts and minds for it alone can give us complete deliverance from the darkness of this world. #6 - VPW "Thus Saith the Lord" Statement WWAY p. ix Preface I know the contents of Volume III of “Studies in Abundant Living” will not only open up more of God’s Word for you, but will also lift you – mentally and physically and spiritually. ... Let us put God’s Word in our hearts and minds for it alone can give us complete deliverance from the darkness of this world. #7 - VPW "Thus Saith the Lord" Statement GMWD p. viii Preface I know that the contents of Volume IV of “Studies in Abundant Living” will not only unveil more of God’s Word for you, but, in doing so, will also uplift you–mentally and physically and spiritually. ... Let us put God’s Word in our hearts and minds, for it alone can give us complete deliverance and dispel the darkness of this world. Notice that the upgrade for Vol. IV applies to BOTH sentences: The "contents" of Vol.IV is upgraded from "open up" to "unveil." The action of "it alone" (God's Word") is upgraded with the addition of "and dispel." Now we can look at the change in the revelation in how that Preface was presented to us and know that something changed around 1977 for the better. AC Key#13 (from 16 Keys to walking in the spirit) Revelation once given may change (God changes the revelation after the circumstances change). Jonah 3:1-10 From what we've seen there were OTHER changes for the better in printed PFAL. We've seen another flurry of changes around 1982.

Now to introduce the next "Thus saith the Lord" statements I must take a little break. Now that you're relaxed, here's a surprise spot quiz: Who can point out the hidden "Thus saith the Lord" statement in the Preface of the Blue Book? Hidden in the sense that it's not stated outright, like with the first three overt “thus saith” statements. Hidden in the sense that it's implied. You can't read it, but as you think it through the implication appears. There's a subtle implication the last two sentences in the Preface of BTMS convey. For years I used to wince with pain whenever I'd see them, thinking that they were incredibly poor writing style. When you put these two sentences together something is implied. *** Let's look at those two adjacent sentences in BTMS page ix and see what we can see. The sentences are: (1) "I know the contents of Volume I of Studies in Abundant Living will not only open up more of God's Word for you, but will also uplift you - mentally and physically and spiritually." (2) "Let us put God's Word in our hearts and minds for it alone can give us complete deliverance from the darkness of this world." Sentence (1) says the contents of BTMS will uplift us - mentally and physically and spiritually. That sounds like pretty complete upliftance. Upliftance from what? The world and it's darkness, of course. Sentence (2) says that ONLY God's Word can give us complete deliverance from the darkness of this world. Decades ago I would cringe while reading these two sentences. I thought it was poor writing to so strongly associate the contents of BTMS with God's Word. Now I see that it is right and proper. *** Aside from each individual Preface having specific opening lines regarding that volume's contents, the wording for each "Thus saith the Lord" statement is nearly the same for all three Prefaces. All three of these early volumes were released in book form in 1971. However, when Volume IV (GMWD) came out in 1977 there were two small but significant differences to be found in it's "Thus saith the Lord" statement. Here is that statement with the changes in my bold fonts: (1) "I know that the contents of Volume IV of 'Studies in Abundant Living' will not only unveil more of God’s Word for you, but, in doing so, will also uplift you - mentally and physically and spiritually." (2) "Let us put God’s Word in our hearts and minds, for it alone can give us complete deliverance and dispel the darkness of this world." This is part of the evolution of revelation that was happening while we snoozed. God was making more available to us bu this 1977 date and telling us in a quiet and discrete manner. It was a secret. We’ll get into more of this later. Setting aside that interesting variation in Vol.IV GMWD’s Preface, the root preface for that and the Preface for the first three volumes is: I know the contents of Volume [fill in the blank] of Studies in Abundant Living will not only open up more of God’s Word for you, but will also uplift you – mentally and physically and spiritually. ... Let us put God’s Word in our hearts and minds for it alone can give us complete deliverance from the darkness of this world. Let’s diagram the first compound sentence. The first subject is “contents” (of Volume [ ] of Studies in Abundant Living) The first verb is “will ... open up” The second subject is “contents” (implied from above) The second verb is “will ... uplift” Then the next sentence asserts that “it alone can give,” where it refers to God’s Word. It just always looked odd that “it alone can give” is placed right next to an assertion that the “contents” were also going to do some giving. When I keep in mind the other “Thus Saith” statements, these seem to fit right in. Break time’s over.

With my RC background so steeped in sin consciousness, I considered it a miracle to be set free of guilt. For those first 6 or 10 months when I first stumbled into a PFAL fellowship my facial muscles actually ached from the unfamiliar exercise of smiling. I've also considered it a miracle that I heard that the dead were dead and that God was all light and no darkness at all. These were the things I'd witness to, not material abundance. The verses you mention I am familiar with and believe. VPW himself said several times and in several ways that he failed to become the man he knew to be. He missed out on some big things by his own admission. Have you considered I Corinthians 3:15 and it's context in the mix with those two passages you mentioned? There one word poorly translated in I Cor 3:17 that throws many readers off. In that verse the word "him" should be translated "it." The passage is about the things that God's people can miss out on, even though they have eternal life. VPW was very unhappy at the end. Things did not go well for him, and he knew the ministry was in great trouble. I think that if he had been more successful in becoming the man he knew to be, then he would have reaped more happy results.

I'm having trouble understanding the device you refer to. I also wanted to ask you for more info on the idea of people needing stories. It seems related to some science issues I've been working on.

Thank you. I remember making that mistake before. Got some thinking to do.

I can see your point. But the pattern I lean towards is repeated in the other 19 statements. I'll post more of them them soon. Might the figure of speech you have in mind be the one where Thomas said "My Lord and my God" when feeling Jesus's wounds? It's related to the OT place where Moses was made a god to Israel and Aaron was his prophet?

Has anyone seen the first three of 22 statements that are now posted? I see many comments on me and my style of posting, but nothing on those SO WELL HIDDEN "thus saith the Lord" statements that so many grads (not just here) have told me are not in there.

Sorry for that. It's just too tempting. You make such a great straightman because you're so humorless. It's like Abbot and Costello with you. I also thought you'd be proud as punch to be the poster who got me to finally find the 22 statements. So, from your laughless point of view, what do you think of the first 3 pieces of evidence, now posted here, that slipped under all of our radar back in the day? I once witnessed to some churchy people who tightly held the belief that Jesus never laughed. Imagine that! They didn't smile either. THEN, I couldn't find ANY places in my KJV where Jesus laughed. Maybe you're on to something here.

He's a master! Have you ever been into the Firesign Theatre?

Hi Grace Valarie Claire, If we look at my comment to you again, maybe you can reconsider or at least feel better that you were not slammed by me. Then again, if you WANTED to get slammed for the drama, then GO FOR IT! Here is what I said to you: “I knew him [VPW] personally. I know what the scriptures say about OUR old man nature. I know all sin stinks. I do NOT buy the model him being pure evil being sold here. I saw him do good. The pure evil model does not fly with reality. Get a rounded education and you may think differently. If you spent a year with some proPFAL people you would be able to see more.” I highlighted to help. The FIGURATIVELY unrounded education I criticized you for is the education you got HERE. I suggested you round it out with proPFAL people, of which you KNOW there are many. So, anyone who wants to get all huffy about what I said should look at the context. Thank you. If anyone thought I was referring to GVC’s formal education, that does not speak well for the quality of THEIR education, at least not in English grammar. Then again, maybe it was not poor education but clouding emotions.

Ok. Those are the first 3 statements and I call them the Sledgehammer Set. They are up front and obvious, yet they were lost to us all. How did they get hidden? My guess is #1 was in such an elementary chapter on Romans 10:9,10 that we all probably read it ONLY very early when we took the class. Similar is #2, and it looks, at first glance, like it''s confined to apply only to leading us into tongues. But #3 looks to me like it's the complicated grammar and the context that throws most of us completely off the scent. It did Penworks and she's a writer. I'll hold off with those three for a while. We can compare our discussions now with discussions 10 years ago, item for item.

#3 - VPW "Thus Saith the Lord" Statement PFAL p.83 The Bible was written so that you as a believer need not be blown about by every wind of doctrine or theory or ideology. This Word of God does not change. Men change, ideologies change, opinions change; but this Word of God lives and abides forever. It endures, it stands. Let’s see this from John 5:39. “Search the scriptures ....” It does not say search Shakespeare or Kant or Plato or Aristotle or V.P. Wierwille’s writings or the writings of a denomination. No, it says, “Search the scriptures ....” because all Scripture is God-breathed. Not all that Wierwille writes will necessarily be God-breathed; not what Calvin said, nor Luther, nor Wesley, nor Graham, nor Roberts; but the Scriptures – they are God-breathed." *** The key sentence is the last one. It's taken nearly word-for-word exactly from the '67 film class, so everyone was exposed to this sentence a maximum number of times. Here's how we heard it in the film class: FILM segment 8 'Search the scriptures.' It doesn't say search Shakespeare or Kant or Plato or Aristotle or V.P. Wierwille's writings or the writings of my denomination, no. It's says, 'search the scriptures!' Why search the scriptures? Because all scripture is God-breathed. But not all that V.P. Wierwille would write would of necessity be God-breathed, nor what Shakespeare said nor Kant nor Plato not Aristotle or Freud. But the scriptures; they are God-breathed. All scripture, all of it. How many times were we exposed to this sentence? Many. Yet it eludes us to this day. Why? What many unbelievers have tried to assert is that this key sentence in Dr's teaching to us was equivalent to the following sentence of their own composition: "Not what Wierwille writes will be God-breathed; not what Calvin said, nor Luther, nor Wesley, nor Graham, nor Roberts; but the Scriptures – they are God-breathed." But that's not at all the choice of words Dr used. What Dr said and wrote says the exact opposite of the above sentence. It’s the addition of just a few words, “not all” and “necessarily” that make the big difference. *** The ACTUAL sentence reads (with my bold fonts): "Not all that Wierwille writes will necessarily be God-breathed; not what Calvin said, nor Luther, nor Wesley, nor Graham, nor Roberts; but the Scriptures – they are God-breathed." The phrase "not all" implies "some." If I eat NOT ALL of a pizza pie, then that means there's SOME left for you. This means Dr's statement on PFAL page 83 asserts that... SOME some of what Wierwille writes will OF NECESSITY be God-breathed. Why “of necessity” must SOME of Dr’s writings be God-breathed? Because God appointed him as His spokesman. *** There were times when Dr would put something in writing and it was God-breathed, like when he wrote to US, his students. As he claimed in my TNDC p.34 quote above, every word he wrote to US, his PFAL students, was true. Then there were also times when he wrote something and it was NOT God-breathed, but just his flesh understanding, whether correct or incorrect. This passage on PFAL p. 83 troubles a lot of people. He’s just saying there that man’s word is untrustworthy, but God’s IS trustworthy. He says that, compared to God’s Word, man’s is faulty, every man’s, even great religious leaders’ words. He then goes one step farther and says (in effect) that even a man (himself) who is appointed as a spokesman for God, by God, has faulty words when he is not speaking (or writing) exactly what God commissions. So, all of written PFAL, what Dr told us to master, is worthy of mastery because THOSE writings are God-breathed. God inspired them and supervised them being printed and handed to us grads. This is why I write in the CSBP thread that we are SO rich! It's good to keep TIMING in mind. That's why I have so much going on regarding publication dates here. The TIMING of PFAL p.83 is such that much of written PFAL had not yet been written. Working (even mastering) our KJVs was right and proper when that's all there was. But as God and Dr and staff produced more and more of written PFAL Dr stepped up his urging that we master THAT body of material, and NOT our KJVs.

#2 - VPW "Thus Saith the Lord" Statement TNDC p.116 Paul in I Thessalonians 2:13, thanked God that ‘when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God.’ You too must follow God’s truth as told in the Word of God. But if you think this is just Victor Paul Wierwille writing or speaking to you, you will never receive. If you know that what I am saying to you are words which the Holy Ghost has spoken and is speaking to you by me, then you too will manifest the greatness of the power of God. If you will literally do what I ask you, then you can manifest the fullness of the abundance of God, the wonderful power of God. Like statement #1 from TNDC p.34 above, this one is strongly stated. Now I know what your thinking! You're thinking... "Mike is bluffing." But besides that. Many grads quickly think that this "Thus Saith #2" only applies to Session 12 and to Dr leading us into tongues. This objection will evaporate as we deal with TWO words in the page 116 quote which may have slipped your attention. Let's look MUCH more closely at this passage from "The New, Dynamic Church," even though it is very familiar to all PFAL grads. The passage is very similar to what Dr spoke in the last session of the class when he led us into tongues. In this written passage we will see that Dr lets it be known in no uncertain terms that he was God's spokesman. As I have discussed this grand #2 "Thus Saith The Lord" statement with grads, almost every one's initial impression is that the passage merely applies to Dr's leading us into tongues, because that IS its context. That's what the chapter is about. The chapter title is "How to Speak in Tongues." This initial impression makes it seem that for me to apply this strong claim of Dr's to ALL of the PFAL writings is to take it out of its context. I'm told I go too far with this passage. Let's look deeper into this matter of context. There are two small simple words in the immediate context of this passage in TNDC p.116 that slightly stand out to alert the watchful student. They are in the passage I quoted above. These two words stand out as a just a little bit odd, and by carefully investigating them we can see how they influence the context of this passage. These two odd words occur in this sentence: "But if you think this is just Victor Paul Wierwille writing or speaking to you, you will never receive. Do you see them? They are small. The two words are "or speaking." Why are these two words in there? It's a BOOK, and he's writing, not speaking. Why does he print these two words there? These two words bring in a broader context. The printed words on TNDC p.116 were originally SPOKEN in Session Twelve of the class, and then edited down to the smaller passage that appears on that page. With my own capitalization added, here is exactly and in full what was SPOKEN in that session just before Dr led us into tongues: "I know that you would like to receive into manifestation the power of the fullness of the holy spirit. I know that you would like to speak the wonderful works of God and magnify God. And so, now, I'm going to help you to manifest the power of the holy spirit, JUST LIKE I'VE HELPED HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF OTHER PEOPLE ACROSS THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD. And there's one thing I want to tell you, and that is that, if you can believe God's Word, and surely you can believe God's Word, FOR OF ALL THE TIMES THAT WE'VE BEEN IN THE DEPTH OF THE GREATNESS OF GOD'S WORD, YOU HAVE SEEN the mathematical exactness, the scientific precision with which it works. And that God's Word is faithful, what He has promised, He is not only willing to perform, but He's able to perform, not only able but willing. "And therefore, I can assure you upon the integrity of God's Word, that you will be speaking in tongues the wonderful works of God and magnifying God. I'd like for you just to take your Bible, and what other materials you have, and just lay them to the side. And you just forget about them for the time being, and you just listen to me. Just let me unfold the keys to you, and within the next few minutes, you too will be speaking the wonderful works of God. "You know, in Acts, chapter 2, in verse 4, it says: 'And they were all filled with the holy spirit ...' They were all filled - nobody got missed, just nobody. And, IN MY CLASSES ON POWER FOR ABUNDANT LIVING, nobody ever gets missed, because, IF YOU'RE IN THIS CLASS, YOU'VE HEARD THE WORD, you've believed God's Word, God is always faithful. And nobody ever misses, if you'll do exactly what I tell you to do, right down to the minute detail. "It's like, in I Thessalonians, chapter 2, verse 13. Remember where the Apostle Paul said: 'I thank my God, that, when you received the Word of God which you heard of us, you received it not as the word of man, but as it is in truth, the Word of God.' Now, if you'll be as honest with God as that Word of God says, you too can walk into the greatness of the manifestation of the power of God. But, if you think this is just V.P. Wierwille talking, you'll never get it. "But if you know that what I am saying -- it's V.P. Wierwille saying it, but these are words which the Holy Ghost has spoken and is utilizing and speaking to you THROUGH MY MINISTRY AND MY LIFE, then you too will manifest forth the greatness of the power of God. If you will, literally, do what I tell you and ask you to do, and show you why, then you can walk into the greatness of this power, LIKE ALL THE REST OF US HAVE, and manifest forth the greatness of this abundance of God, the wonderful power of God." I'll pause for a bit. Brings back some strong memories, don't it? Now I want to repeat the capitalized passages and note their meaning: "JUST LIKE I'VE HELPED HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS" - refers to previous live classes. "FOR ALL THE TIMES" - refers to the entire span of "this" particular film class. "IN MY CLASSES ON POWER FOR ABUNDANT LIVING" - refers to previous PFAL classes. "IF YOU'RE IN THIS CLASS" - refers to "this" entire class. "THROUGH MY MINISTRY AND MY LIFE" - refers to teachings other than the class. "LIKE ALL THE REST OF US HAVE" - refers to previous classes. We can see here that in addition to the leading us into tongues, those two odd words "or speaking" alert us and show us that the entire class as well as many other teachings of Dr's are a big part of the context of page 116. This letter opens with my use of the phrase "God's spokesman" in describing Dr's ministry to us and his teaching. Dr phrased this similarly on page 9 of "Jesus Christ Is Not God" (2nd edition) where he says of Jesus Christ: "It is he who appointed me as a spokesman of God's accurate Word; may I be found faithful in that calling." Since coming back to PFAL I have found many, many "Thus Saith The Lord" statements by Dr in writing or on tape. Some are overt, but many are very well hidden. Remember the stated goal here on this section of this thread, also. It's to show that we forgot a lot or a lot slipped past us unawares. The specific "lost item" I'm retrieving is that Dr made some pretty strong claims to be writing (or speaking ) for God. For Dr to claim this authority to write and speak for God does not necessarily make it true. For THAT certainty we need to go to God and His Word and have HIM verify Dr's claims. But to be certain that Dr DID claim to be giving us God's pure written Word in his teachings to us is as easy as reading what is written. I have decided to accept Dr's claims. The objection that Dr did not intend us to view his writings to us as special is unfounded. It reveals an inaccurate memory of what Dr thought of the PFAL writings. He told us to master the PFAL writings a lot BECAUSE he knew they are of God!

#1 - VPW "Thus Saith the Lord" Statement TNDC p.34 Change what you put in your mind. To change the food you are sending to your mind is to “renew your mind.” Think those things which are true, honest, just, pure, lovely and of good report. __ If you by your free will accept Christ as your Savior and renew your mind according to The Word, you will find that every word I have written to you is true. I challenge you to stand upon the Word of God, declare your authority in Christ and claim your rights.” In Dr’s vocabulary, “true” is bigger than “factually accurate.” Truth is spiritual, facts are man-made. Dr often taught this.

But seriously folks! You're right So_crates, that thread is a thicket. I was unable to slog through it all to find the right posts. From memory and a few peeks what happened was the mudfight was getting out of hand on many threads. I was given the thread to prove my points or thesis or something. I agreed to stay there (I think) to keep the peace. Special rules were given to participants, and the toned down fight resumed. Then I was being rushed with posting my 22 statements, but they were just paper notes. I wanted to write them up and polish them as fast as possible. I recruited several sympathetic posters (there were about 15 of them, some very active posters) and non-posting friends and started a Private Topic thread, or something like that. We worked on the 22 statements there for a while. Then one of my friends got tired of all the nagging going on for me to produce my promised evidence. (Sounds familiar?) and he leaked the 22 just to shut people up. But I kept working on polishing them up and then I posted them a second time in the thread. Lots of dribble, dribble, dribble. But in between are the 22 statements in more finished form. Here it is: http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/9131-the-official-the-ultimate-the-amazing-pfal-thread/ THEN I eventually left GS and wanted to start a separate discussion forum for proPFAL people. It’s still up, with lots of grandiose expectations, but no one showed up very much. I lost interest eventually and just wanted to focus on my own life and applications of PFAL. But I just found the grandiose, much more polished set of 22 from that abandoned website. I can post them here, starting now. Here’s the introduction: *** I am often told that I'm promoting PFAL more than Dr ever intended, and that I give PFAL a status that VPW never intended for it to have. The key words are “that VPW never intended.” One frequent observation I’ve made in the last ten years is that all of us older grads have forgotten some of the printed material, and that some of that material was never absorbed in the first place. This next set of Posting is on this subject of what VPW said and wrote about the status of the written forms of PFAL. These quotes will tell us WHY he told us to master written PFAL in ever progressing intensity from 1975 t0 1985. Hold onto your hats. I call these quotes VPW’s “Thus saith the Lord” statements.