Mike

I was in a staff meeting where VPW grilled David C in front of us all for the number of typos in the last Way Magazine. There were a lot of people involved. Room for miscommunications and errors. In possibly the same staff meeting (can't remember for sure) VPW said that if the Way International waited for every single tiny detail to be perfect then we'd never ship our anything. I'm happy with getting a copy of PFAL that's tens of thousands of times more accurate to the "originals" than any Eglish Version of the Bible is to those ancient originals. We were taught how to handle errors that creep in, and these were little.

The film class has "parallel" but the book has "balanced" for most of it. (I think. There may be one appearance of "parallel" ) I always took his use of "parallel" to mean how a child's teeter totter is parallel to the ground when the children's weights are balanced. I always took it as an Ohio-ism, or a local idiom. This happened (I think) in the early printings of the Blue Book with the phrase "un-loosed" changed to "unleashed." I'm not bothering to look these things up, because my break time is short.

Yes. It's my perception. BTW, I'm pondering a response to your car salesman analogy.

I thought I answered that question, eventually, with my reference to proofreaders oversights and printers errors. You many have missed it. It certainly was not a new issue to me, though, so I did nothing to change the goalposts. I was onto many JCNG details in very hot debate with Trinitarians starting in 1972. When JCNG came out around 1975 I devoured it. I remember choking on Nice, France. Happy to see it fixed in the 2nd edition, around 1982. I said “eventually” above because I do reserve the right to set up things I want to talk about. The more obvious and adversarial the set-up question is that’s hurled at me, the more set-up in my answer my poetic license will easily allow.

I need to get to work. I hear you on old associations. This intrigues me: "The only way to know if its true is to do it" All through the 70s 80s 90s I applied that idea to the traditional Bible, and even more specifically to the Canon. There are ways to know a little, like hinting, but the only way to REALLY know is to believe it and live it. I did not start applying "The only way to know if its true is to do it" to PFAL until 1998. May I ask you how you developed enough confidence in the traditional Canon to bet your life on it? *** I'm off to work for a few hours.

Back in the 70s, 80s, and 90s I was familiar with all those statements also. But then someone showed me details that I had either forgotten or had never absorbed. Yes, I think I have details that everyone else also had either forgotten or had never absorbed. As far as mastering these details and applying them with perfection, I fall far short. I'd like to find a way of discussing these things peacefully, but it may not be possible.

What I'd like to do is sweep all the angst under the rug. There is more of it than I had imagined would be, so I want to back off from my hard hitting style. Is there any way you and I can do that? I was only kidding about the merrygoround because I thought you were into the animation scene. I did not mean to be THIS annoying to you or to a few others here. I just want to discuss things. I use that hard hitting style when people come after me with their hard hitting style. I just don't want to hurt anyone, and that possibility has come to my attention in the last week more and more as I read peoples' TWI stories.

ok

I want to drop that subject.

The "Christ formed" issue is one that I want to research on. I don't have the answers there; just some hints that intrigue me. I feel it's the frontier of research. It needs some positive brainstorming, not contentious debate.

I rarely see simple questions. They are usually loaded. I see them as set-ups for ending a discussion. I can handle that to my satisfaction, but if it's ALWAYS at the expense of other people, then I need to re-think.

I'm seriously re-considering what it is I'm doing here. I think I may have broke So_crates merrygoround. I think similar things are happening with other posters. THAT is not my intention. I thought that BY NOW, after a couple of months of posting, that the shock value of my message would have worn off a little. It seems it is not. Is there any way I can discuss these things, even answer questions, without provoking such negative emotions?

context

You're spinning off in the wrong direction. This is too tangled to sort out. I give up.

No. I developed a thick skin long ago for what others feel about me. What is new is this past week I've been reading peoples' story threads, and a few other threads that give me a better picture of whom I'm posting with. I remember penworks from way back in the 1970s and her story is fluffing up a lot of my nostalgia feathers. Someone mentioned Kris S and her radio story. I remember her from my earliest days at Rye. I was probably more aware of her than she of me, but I feel like I knew her. One of the reasons I post here, instead of going to other clone ministries is the freedom of speech here. That does not exist in any way, shape or form in any other ministry. The slightly proPFAL clone ministries out there are determined to move farther and farther from PFAL, and they tolerate my message FAR LESS than anyone here. But I’m beginning to see that my message could be causing pain that need not be, and could even hamper some people in their genuine attempts to lighten up. Freedom of speech is here, but freedom from pain seems a lot farther off than I had anticipated. I really thought that the pain here would be a lot less after 10 years. That’s what I mean by my desire to hit the big reset button.

It's much more convenient to talk without all the clutter. My answer: no deception and trickery on God's part... OF COURSE! Can we hit a reset button and start over on this? If so: I simply think a lot more was going on behind the scenes, there was a spiritual war going on. In addition to what initially blessed us in the class were hidden blessings we did not know about. What I intended to communicate to you on this was not even close to riding the boundary like the actual deception controversy some parents go through on whether to teach the Santa Claus myth to their children. Why do you want to characterize is so? God put more into the class than the benefits listed on the Green Card. That's a good thing. That's what I intended to communicate. *** I'd like to hit a reset button on a couple of other issues. Are you into it? I'm getting weary of the angst. I've been reading up on some of the active posters' backgrounds and am getting some surprising reactions within myself. I mentioned the other day that a (major?) reason I've come back after 10 years absence is because of the nostalgia factor. By putting together 2 plus 2 it has been becoming apparent to me that, try as I might, "lightening" up may be somewhat impossible... at least not at this time. In my nostalgia I am relating more to the recurring pain some posters feel. My pain was far less, never being in the Corps, and not having that leash. My pain subsided around 1998, after being away from TWI for 10 years.

I'm more interested in understanding "Christ formed" than I am debating on it.

Surely you won't mind if I answer a question with a question, will you? or two Do you know what "Christ formed in you" is yet?

Too complicated. I forget. What we were talking about?

I already discussed this at least once and several times referred to this motivation, so more details are here. In a nutshell, if any of us had any inkling that VPW intention was shipping out God-breathed English texts, then we would have backed off. We would not have helped distribute the publications around the globe. It had to be a secret project in order to get it done. Remember all the teaching he gave us on secrets? When God keeps a secret NO ONE finds out. God, in His foreknowledge, knows if someone is going to be able to keep a secret. This was an ultra secret project. It had to be secret to get past all the religious error that's been infused into Christian cultures for 2000 years. Religion says God can't be so good or so able as to give us His Authoritative Word in modern English. It's an abomination to religion. Strict requirements in religion are robes, sandals, beards, and ancient settings before any God-breathed texts are allowed to be given.

I agree with you that none of the 22 statements do anything "to suggest PFAL is divinely inspired" as you put it. You missed the 2 points that ARE BEING proving by those statements: VPW claimed it and we missed it. Two tiny points. But they will be useful later.

The same way I missed it: we weren't looking for it. I didn't see this one, which is characterized by "...edified, exhorted and comforted," until around 1999, and well after I had seen the 3 sledgehammer statements. At that time I was looking for it. It looks to me that you severely mis-characterized this statement with "...guy says 'read my book' and, just like that..." You left out the best part, and then you implied my logic was totally leaning on the 'read my book' phrase. Did you do all that on purpose?

#12 - VPW "Thus Saith the Lord" Statement Here is one that I think is real special. This one again is hidden where few readers ever go. Who ever RE-reads the introduction or the preface of a book? Many don't even bother with preliminaries like that on the FIRST reading. But WE read them. This statement is "hidden" in the Preface of "Receiving The Holy Spirit Today" on page x in the 7th edition. There we read: "If you are a Christian believer, I sincerely encourage you to study this book. Do not allow your past teachings or feelings to discourage you from going on to receive God’s best. If you need power and ability to face up to the snares of this life, you may find your answer while reading this book. It is my prayer that you may be edified, exhorted and comforted." *** Let's look at this paragraph closely, sentence by sentence. I'm stunned, even now after seeing it many times in the past. There's so much in here. "If you are a Christian believer, I sincerely encourage you to study this book." This exhortation applies to us now as much as it did back then. We were often told by Dr to master the class materials. This is just one more place. Here he used the word "study" which is used in II Timothy 2:15, our point of departure (PFAL p.115). "Do not allow your past teachings or feelings to discourage you from going on to receive God’s best." This encouragement applies to us now MORE than it did back then. Connecting this sentence with the previous one leads to two possible understandings: either "this book" IS God's best, or/and "this book" is instrumental to receiving "God's best." Looks like both are true to me. "If you need power and ability to face up to the snares of this life, you may find your answer while reading this book." There it is again: This book is God's answer to the how of the power, just like the above sentence. God's answer is God's Word. God's Word is the power of God. Twice establishes it. We may find our answer while reading "this book." Or how about MASTERING it? "It is my prayer that you may be edified, exhorted and comforted." WOW!!! That's what prophecy does! Edify, exhort, comfort! This book, RHST, is prophecy! Hey! I didn't write the book! It's been sitting there all that time, unnoticed. Think how many other treasures await us, hidden there by God.