Mike

I'm with you on football. But where are all the posters? Why the lull in activity?

Where are all the posters? I get the feeling everyone went on a GreaseSpot camp-out and I'm home alone here. Is this SuperBowl related?

Hi. I just found this but haven't had any thoughts on this specific for posting ...yet. :)

Thanks to both you and T-Bone. I was only trying to make that one little point.

I had similar questions. At one point I was even worried that VPW's operation of SIT was repetitive and lacking fluency. I had hardly ever heard him SIT, except some in a few parts of the film class. Then one day at an Advanced Class (San Diego 1983) I heard him SIT and interpret. It was very fluent. Can't remember if the interpretation was or not. The way I answer this best, though, is when I look at my life I see times when I was walking well with God, and then there were times, even years, when my walk was terrible and my operation of any manifestations was questionable at best.

Sorry, I did not provide. I mentioned this later and do provide hints. I don't know where they are right now.

Word Wolf, I agree with all the mitigating angles you posted. However, I was not talking about THOSE statements from those wonderful men. I was talking about some of the isolated "self referential" statements that atheists, New Agers, and similar people bandy about, that make them SOUND very egotistic. Do you know which ones I'm talking about? I could go look, but there are bunches. Even some fundamentalist Bible thumpers who don't like Paul will call him on some of his self references. For Moses, I was thinking of how he INITIALLY approached the children of Israel with his story of the burning bush. I often wonder how he did that. Moses himself was worried about how he would do it. God tells him to say "I am" sent me. Great! How did that go over? How did that do the trick. Wouldn't they be bothered by his self referential greatness then? *** I understand how SERVICE with great gifts is the best way to not go off on a self worship trip. If I was endowed the gift of great physical height, my proper response is NOT to seek worship for it. I could set my dreams on Basketball and be famous! But that would not be the best goal. If, while young, I set my dreams on serving others, like reaching for things stored on the high shelves in the kitchen, like Solomon asking for wisdom to serve, THEN my path can be a good one with my gift. If I make a self referential statement like “Hey, I can reach that box of cereal for you.” That kind of statement should not be regarded as the kind that reeks of ego and is self serving and leads to cultiness..

I've seen a huge number of similar articles on FaceBook on narcissism. Some looks useful. I step back a little from narcissism diagnosis experts, though, because there are too many of them. It reminds me EXACTLY of how idiots at TWI were always looking for devil spirits. It looks like the same human mechanics at play. Spirit Sniffers and Narcissism Cops are both cut from the same cloth IMO when they get extreme, and it does. I also often see the some of the same human mechanics of strict fundamentalist Bible thumpers being used by smart University science grad students in their atheistic fits.

I think that required thick skin may apply to GreaseSpot too. "Wealth and Poverty" was required reading for Reagan transition team in 1981. It's the Bible of supply side economics. Very dense reading. Some ideas were interesting. Good will begets good will in conversation, as we were discussing how to handle praise, is the idea he applies to money. Gilder in "Wealth and Poverty" says economies start in primitive societies when one family/village throws a good party for some other family/village. The good will fosters thinking as how to return the favor, and throw an even better party in return. The economy starts with all the surrounding cottage industries that spring up to fuel the events for both villages. ......from an old memory....hope it's accurate :)

Actually, I've been reading several of them and slowly seeing how they are organized. There's a lot that's been posted here in the years I've been gone. Anyway, my interest in this one red flag issue is broader that the TWI application you folks have in mind. I mentioned that in this flurry of posting, I think to someone else. I know where you are coming from, I hear you, but I'm refraining from going down that path.

Yes, I agree. Plus, I feel it my duty to return the good feeling they are trying to convey to me. But I never had any practice at handling praise, and it initially flummoxed me. I'm learning to turn the grace back to the sender, slowly. From what I read in "Wealth and Poverty" 30 years ago, this is how the economy works. Oops! That's 38 years ago.

I think about this topic of self referential statements in many contexts TOTALLY UnRELATED to TWI. Recently I learned to dance well enough to get praise from people. I think hard on how to properly respond.

That's not my thinking. I was thinking only that this thread's pointing to "self referential greatness statements" as some kind of huge red flag IN ITSELF might be looked at differently. The much larger picture is your "whole decision" where you include some of his actions that follow such statements. I too look at a larger picture, but at different actions following, with differing weighing policies. But I wasn't commenting on these larger pictures; merely on the premise of this thread. Or the premise as I perceived it.

I'm trying to make one tiny point about self referential greatness. I think about this topic from many angles. My Babe Ruth example is needed in our cultural mind-set IMO. We over condemn ego sometimes. I'm also trying to keep my promise to NOT be in your face(s) with a lot of counter info on VPW to balance your statements.

I didn't claim an exception. My ONLY point expressed here is that a lot of good people (like Jesus, Paul, Luke, John, Moses) have made "self referential greatness" statements. Therefore, a "self referential greatness" statement ALONE is NOT a good indicator of a fat ego. Babe Ruth said something like: if a man says he can jump over a barn, and he CAN do it, then he's not bragging. We hardly ever see greatness. We can analyze it only poorly.

So, how does that "prove" that "self referential greatness" always indicated evil?

I was talking about Jesus, Paul, Luke, John, or Moses.

It's what a person does AFTER the self proclamation that speaks louder to me.

I don't think anyone has yet started looking for "self referential greatness" in Jesus, Paul, Luke, John, or Moses. My hunch is that "self referential greatness" IN ITSELF is not enough of an indicator to discern good from evil. Now, if you look at Jesus, Paul, Luke, John, or Moses as ALSO evil, then my point drowns.

There is something very powerful about dance that I never quite knew until I dove in to it 5 years ago. In fighting life-long depression over the decades (winning lately BTW) I noticed long ago that a forced smile can "confuse" a depression for a few seconds. Now I see dance as a forced smile on the whole body, and depression LOSES to it every time. As long as the song lasts and a for few minutes afterward that depression is gone, and a valuable time to re-group is there to work with.

I think I'm one of them. I get amused at the stupidity on both sides, but I no longer invest in becoming aware of all the latest details, and discussing to try and influencing anyone else's vote.

Has anyone looked for self referential greatness elsewhere? How about Jesus? Paul? Luke? John? Ever wonder how the children of Israel recognized Moses' non-self-referential greatness? Moses, an outcast on several levels, comes to them with "I was sent by the great 'I am.'" I am aware of much better translations of "I am" like "I will be" and "I will be what you need Me to be" but I often wonder how he proved anything to them with that. Didn't the plagues come a little later? I have some theories. Whenever I hear cult warnings I look at Jesus and his 12 to see if a little mitigation is in order.

And religious, and philosophical, and psychological. He also does a kind of marriage counseling. His work on happiness is a stand-alone project. I was impressed with his logic. I can see it not working well for some. I forget how the logic went. I listened to him a lot years ago, but now only a few times per year. I've tuned out of politics for a while now.

Hadn't heard that about Abe. Honest! The radio talk show host, Dennis Preger, has a major thesis (books, lectures) that happiness or cheerfulness is a moral responsibility. He is pretty convincing.

Holy SMOKES! That thread is like bizarrely similar to my own observations. I'm only half way through reading, so I don't know if you have some plot twist to surprise me, but so far it reads exactly like what I've been saying about the multitudes of grads out there being blessed. And it lines up with my observations of how it was NOT a blessing as one moved up the structure. The "when you got in," and the "where you got in," and "when out" ..... all that stuff I totally agree. I was only half conscious of how I was dodging the darts. A lot was luck. A lot I learned in hindsight. When on HQ staff I felt totally insulted by some Corps (especially interim) who were so into the class distinctions. I was relegated to the non-Corps caste. It noticeably hampered me socially. However, I found GREAT comradely at HQ in non-Corps staff, especially the old timers. Now I look back and see that, with all the bureaucratic stickiness I had endure at HQ, the non-Corps staff made it a totally worthwhile education for me. It wasn't perfect, but it was a good couple of years. I had to get out, though. There was no question about that; just where to? With my WOW year I waited for 11 years before going out, and it was well planned. I was pretty expert at dodging over-commitments that the system encouraged, so for all it's hair pulling for other various normal reasons, my WOW year was a total success. Not so many of those who had good memories, and were far removed from Corps, broadcast their experiences effectively to the Corps, especially nowadays. I'll keep reading to see how the thread ends.