Patriot

Personally, I love the Horneys. I sincerely wish Jacque and Ed, and the children, all the best. I'll always be thankful for Ed. He always seemed to do his utmost, in sincerity. Maybe misguided, but not intentionally ego-driven tyrants as most higher leaders were. My prayer is to see them again, on the outside of TWI...maybe even before the gathering together. YMMV.

Rituals.......just too many! The one that annoyed me each and every week (seriously) was their opening of their Sunday Teaching Service. I literally can recite from immediately after the choir sings their opening of the first song, until the emcee says "take your Sing Along the Way and turn to #....". I brought this up with a prominent clergy who often did it, and he told me he puts his heart and believing into it each time. SOOO WHHAAATTT! It still was incredibly trite It reminded me of a sign that K-Mart cashiers had at their station "TYFSAK" - which meant "Thank You For Shopping At K-Mart." Even when those cashiers said that, I knew they never meant it, but were saying it for requirement sake. "Fresh" was banned at twi. At least when LCM was going off the script, full of slobber , it at least was semi-entertaining at times and you may hear something not on someone's script.

Belle, Matthew 26:22b"...Lord, is it I?" :unsure: If so, sorry & love you!

Yeah, Boob and Dootie Monkeyhinds just seemed to live in a parallel universe! How easy it is to tell people about sacrifice, and not preparing for retirement, etc. since you know you're set due to inheritance.

One more for good measure (pages 50ff). Regarding God telling him to go into debt (so much for revelation not contradicting the written Word as twi wrongly divides it) "To explain this in context I would like to go back two years to 1961, when I committed myself to pay for the renovation of the house (the Wierwille family home) at International Headquarters. GOD TOLD ME TO DO IT, so I didn't figure otu the cost - the Bible says we shouldn't do that when God speaks...look, this house we want to modernize. I haven't got any reserve but I have a good income....I'll sign a two-year commercial note with you "The final figure hapned to be $58,000 all told (back in 1961). That was astounding relative to the $25,000 I had anticipated. So I had to believe God every day to pay on that debt as I had agreed to have the bank paid off within two years."

Believe it or not, I actually enjoyed Uncle Harry's book from a historical and seeing how families interacted. "So we three went into partnership and borrowd some money, mortgaged the buildingand everything else involved...The business was doing well. I had a milliondollars a year turnover...I wanted to make money - make it fast and honestly."

In light of the "argument" that UNwritten Policies didn't exist since they were not written down, it reminds me of the Tom Cruise / Jack Nicholson movie "A Few Good Men." There was the one part where Kevin Bacon (the prosecutor) handed a Marine on the witness stand the command's rules manual. He asked the Marine to turn to the page where it describes "Code Red." The Marine said it wasn't in the manual....Kevin Bacon's reply that it must not be something sanctioned by the command. Tom Cruise wisely asked other "assumed" questions like "Where is the Chow Hall?" Since the manual didn't have it in it, there must not be one, and no one eats (something to that affect). Same is the situation here. Since twi didn't write down specific actions that were being carried out continually by their own top leaders, it wasn't "policy." As J*n Ge*rge continually said "We teach that which we allow." Too true! Did the BOD, once they heard the reports of the heavy handedness of the Corps to get their people to sell their mortgaged houses, did they come out publicly or at least on Corps Night to tell them "STOP!" We didn't say to do that!"Did they ever make dorks like Pa*l Br*oks go back and apologize to the couples Belle specified (to which I can confirm she is telling it like it happened). They had a total of ONE, ONE, ONE teaching tape that taught on the topic - and it was sent only to the Corps. How else could they have caused so many to sell their houses without actively teaching to the full ministry at public events and in their printed cure for insomnia (The Way Rag)?

Here are a few that may have been mentioned or similar to those mentioned: "There is nothing outside of THE ministry." Always referring to twi as "THE" ministry, not "A" or even "our" ministry "If you can't trust a man with finances, you can't trust him with the Word, or anything." LCM via VPW. Don't give your $ to other causes outside of THE ministry "Everything gives of something." Supposedly seeing leaders live, and therefore receive teachings as to how you were to also live (as if their examples were always right and to be immitated). The fat-cat Trustee / Director household members are always of the highest caste, and never sit at meals amongst the common, unwashed. They must be served by attendants, with coffee, and tea, whilst others may drink nasty Ohio water with their meals. So those are just a few.

Can't say everything about the ROA was bad. If it wasn't for ROA, I wouldn't have found Mrs. Patriot (ROR, you would understand what I mean :) ). I'm with Radar - I think I'm one of those folks who worked my a** off for months before the event. Work your 8 hour job, work elephant dung off of the big top before raising it up, and then be up all night long every single time it rained, making sure the tents didn't collapse due to water pockets. By the time it was over, we were riding vapors and didn't think, didn't care...just wanted everyone to friggin leave so we could put it all away and get back to a normal 10-hour day. One event at the ROA really shook me. A 1st year Corps guy crawled into a tent and started fondling a minor who was, I believe, Junior Corps from Indiana. She woke up and freaked. He took off. The two Corps coordinators (RM and EH) knew what happened, knew it was sexual assault...at least sexual misconduct, and "yelled" at him before dropping him from the Corps...but the authorities never were notified. Safety was involved, and the coverup was established. I was bothered, and asked Mr. Safety ( ) about that. The attitude was, if it was one of my daughters, it would have been different. That girl didn't have a dad - just a single mom who just finished in residence and going on the field. Just some more "DISPOSABLE PEOPLE" of TWI. For those of you who are still in, ask yourselves a Biblical question: If in Acts 2:47, it says the Lord adds to the church daily - why do you not see much expansion results for your outreach activities? Because, if your twi is of God today, why are not the people coming in droves? Because they are not being made whole in your outfit! People to TWI (particularly the higher ups) are DISPOSABLE. God hates what twi does to His precious children, and, for the most part, wouldn't entrust His precious children to an organization of child abusers. YMMV. WAITRESS!! MAKE IT DECAF!!!

Maybe this question was answered somewhere in this thread, but...... WHO LIVES IN THE CORPS CHALET NOW????? :blink: From last I heard, after LCM left HQ in disgrace, Donna and the kids remained in it. Now that Leah is a college grad, Tim must be in college, and D.G. probably in middle or high school, does Donna still live there? If so, that to me is the epitome of eliteism and arrogance . The fact that, IF she was honestly the innocent, ignorant victim (HAHAHA), she has to be the dumbest"spiritual" person alive! How he could live such a double life that she had NO clue??? (yeah, she knew,but they'll never admit it). She didn't lose her job, her Corps status, even her lofty castle... Oh, not sure if you were aware, but regarding "visiting" or "passing by" Corps, I heard LCM rag to the staff about some Corps who were visiting or vacationing in the 250 range, and didn't stop by HQ, and give a 1/2 day of work. Where was their hearts? So unspiritual they were.....

Belle, Just to clarify, he mentioned the "water balloon" revelation in light of a $1,000,000 donation they received. He said that he thought that the big donation could keep all the Corps full time for at least another year. That is when he said "God" gave him the balloon revelation showing that the money would immediately cause blossom "spiritually" but then would quickly dry up. A good way to say "Gee, we just don't want to spend money on these Corps who already quit their jobs to go full time." Such a putz!

Quick Question for those in / near Austin, TX. Is Paula Butler in Austin? I asked about her on friend finder, but no answer. Anyone know about Paula? Butler??

Hmmm - I thought they were still in WVA (Huntington). Guess things changed.

If A=B, and B=C, then A=C God is His Word. "The Ministry is the Word and the Word is the Ministry"............. (Scary thought, eh?)

Personally, I LOVED MRS. OWENS! Mrs. Patriot and I got to spend some wonderful, personal time with her. We thoroughly enjoyed it! She was real cute when she would make it known which particular "top" leaders she had absolutely no use for . She had lots of opinions, and had no problem sharing them either. One thing we found was that the tough, etiquette lady you thought would be uncomfortable to be around on her turf was anything but! She was a real neat lady! I look forward to seeing her after the gathering together. It broke my heart to hear that TWI didn't even pick up the tab for her funeral and burial! There is just no excuse......none at all :( . They are just garbage people....no values at all!

Oooh - you bring up a sore subject for some of us! That whole pregnancy thing.....what an awful, evil, scenario. I remember that: 1. We had to notify our overseers about wanting to get pregnant, and OBTAIN PERMISSION from the BOD. 2. Couldn't start until they said "Go for it" (although we could practice & rehearse ) 3. We had to plan it according to which other WC in our area also planned to get pregnant since it would mean (2) couples were pregnant at once, thererfore complicating things. 4. Our Region coordinator's wife seemed somewhat resentful, since she herself didn't fit into the parameters (had to be over 35, grovel, had to have either 0 or 1 child, grovel, etc.). Unbelievable now that we are so distant from all of that! No joke - we had to "take turns" getting pregnant with the other WC in our areas. Man, if there was just one of these icons that was "flipping the bird" I would be getting close to sharing what I really feel for TWI in this regard!

Poor Penguin! And some say 'Nam vets have a hard road of recovery Aw, you know I love ya....just ribbin!

BEKster - couldn't the same be done just leaving a post-it note on the wall next to the toilet paper saying "Hey bro (or sis if in the ladies' room)! You Da Best & Stuff!" (Ha ha). I guess nothing says it like Halmark.

Hey Safari, OMG - you actually had "Her" (jenuflect when you say the name of P** S**ND**S)! She always acted as if she was the 4th Trustee!!!! She was mean and bitter to the people who were helping to pack her up. B*ll Gr**ne had to remind her that, in his words, "she was fired" and not just being reassigned. Everyone near her had to walk on egg shells, for the most part. There were "the rules" for everyone, and then the rules for PS. All staff members not on shift work, (but even Safety officers who worked until midnight the night before), were REQUIRED to be at lunch. EVERYONE meant EVERYONE, except... you know who. Guess you all didn't know the rules in your area, eh? Personally, I got along...from a distance. Polar bears and alligators don't bite if you keep your distance.

Do Not Be Afraid of Confrontation??????? Ooohhhh - I thought it was "Constipation." OK - now it makes sense!

Hey Sky, Yeah, maybe they would like more youth in their employment ranks, but I do not think many people are breaking down the doors to apply there. :unsure: Also, IMHO, I really think that just sooo many of the staff do not leave HQ, EVEN THOUGH THEY WANT TO, because they've become "institutionalized." Remember the movie "Shawshank Redemption" when Red (Morgan Freeman) explained why the one old convict went crazy when they were trying to release him? He had spent the vast majority of his life in prison, and while inside was an important man. Imagine some of those old farts who run departments and such leaving there to become nobody? So, no matter how unhappy they are, and how much they b*tch and moan, they stay there because they are institutionalized. Kind of reminds me of "Alex" the lion on Madagascar. While he was in the zoo, he was safe, fed....yet still captive. He hated being released into "the wild" (aka the real world) and having to hunt (aka - get a real job, cook your own meals, make your own way, etc.) - it terrified Alex. They'll deny it, but I've talked personally to many who privately admitted it to me. Bondage - afraid God won't meet their needs outside of twi. Just like a zoo animal.

Oh, and I forgot to mention, those who were in the 250 mile radius from New Knoxville. How many of them got sick and tired having to justify why they didn't attend a STS live? Did they have a note from their doctor? Even if they did, they could have been healed if they believed...so they failed anyhow. I'm sure you all have stories. How about sharing too.

We really need to find out who was the teacher, what the date was of the STS, and the exact quote if possible. Anyone with connections up for this challenge? Anyone? Buller?

Hey SV, Your observation nailed this one on the head (unfortunately true) Even when I was in, even when I had positions of leadership, I saw that totally, and was embarassed by it. The best way to describe it was making you child-like dependent on leadership, or "the system." Craig said that parents shouldn't send their children to college more than 1 1/2 hours away. The Corps leadership took that standard, and made it a doctrine for parents who had opportunities to send their children away further. I remember people being confronted for even considering the opportunities, even if their kids did get scholarships. One of the ways the high-up "fat cat" leaders made people dependent was by overteaching (and overreaching) the concept of getting "wise counsel"(WC). It was pretty much required for anything. For the Corps, they were required to get this WC for about any bigger decision - should we have another child, should I change jobs, should I accept contact from friends & family who left the ministry, should I let my sons join soccer, etc. It was sooooo awful! The paid Way Corps were given money in their budget from twi to put in savings toward their next purchase of a car (probably not a new one). They were REQUIRED from twi to actually show how that monthly amount was put into that "replacement car" category. They did this until they found out it was illegal, and then the Trunk coordinator (B*ll G) wrote a letter "encouraging" the paid Corps to show their overseers that they did so. You can trust them with running meetings, but just not putting away $ for a car. I joke with you...not! Yeah, I remember hearing about our Region coordinators call the Trunk for about every stupid decision they had in their lives for "WC." It made them dependent on others so called "insight." Then the worst happened....... :blink: .....then they required all their subordinates (Limb, Way Corps, believers in their Limb, Branch, etc.) to come to them on every stupid decision too. As a matter of fact, I remember hearing when my Limb coordinators were in a meeting, the Region coordinators reamed the LC's wives, because they didn't call the RC's wife for "wise counsel" on a regular basis. By the way, most of the other wives never NEEDED her help (no problems, solid marriages, been married longer w/better behaved kids, etc.). How dare they !!! So he set it up where on a schedule where those ladies were to call his wife to check in on life in general, where she would offer her "wise counsel" as a wife. As stupid as it sounds (and it really was), my Limb coordinators never blamed those zealous Region coordinators. They felt that they were just trying to do right, by doing what others required of them, assuming that everything was right. Still, the examples I could cite could go on and on and on....... Child-like dependency = Immature Adults :wacko: