TheHighWay

Tonto... their previous experience as LEAD staff is why they put the H****ys in charge at Gunnison. I shouldn't be surprised that she scared folks with her ways. She was kind-of a wild thing! I was thrilled that I didn't have to go LEAD (trained during the fog years) since I have a distinct dislike for high places with no railings.

When the truth finally hit me about the corruption and lies in twi, it literally sucked all the wind out of me. I spent hours and days in a blur. And I was "ready" to hear it. I was sick and tired of the crap and ready to chuck it all. But still, it was like a serious body-blow. Folks like my ex... they just "can't" hear the truth yet. Maybe never will. He has no life outside twi. He would simply have no mechanisms for coping with the world without them. None. So he protects himself with denial.

You know... it just struck me... they ran out of hoops, didn't they? TWI is/was based on layers and levels and keeping you jumping through the hoops to attain more spirituality. You attended a twig, you were "spiritual". You took the class, you were "more spiritual". You took intermediate, advanced, collateral classes, you were "very spiritual". You went WOW you were "extra spiritual". You went corps you were "super spiritual". You got ordained, or worked at a root location, you were "super extra spiritual." This worked while we were all new to twi... inexperienced enough to not see the hoops, and eager enough to keep jumping. But there is no way that can last. Once you are around long enough you start to see the hoops. And you either stop jumping and leave, or you decide the hoops are good and stay. But the other thing that happened was, twi ran out of hoops. So many folks graduated from corps, and worked at limbs and root locations, there was just no higher for them to go (since we all know ordination wasn't for everyone). What's to keep them motivated now? According to twi's example, you first try to re-package the hoops and see who you can get to re-jump through them. And second, you change the motivation for jumping... its not to be "more spiritual" it's to be "more spiritual than the next guy". And if you can knock him down a few levels, then your hoop becomes shiny and new again, gaining you "extra spiritual" points. Yippee!! (On second thought, let's not go there. It is a silly place.)

Satori... dead-on post!!! On a trip to HQ, I was told to drive my car close enough to the leader's car that he could see me in his rear-view mirror. The guy was speeding like a demon down a road known for speed traps. So, it doesn't strike me as odd that one of us got stopped by a cop. It happened to be me. The cop was nice and just gave me a warning, but what did my leader say, "Your lack of believing is why you got stopped." (no, dumb-a**, my being stupid enough to follow your orders while you broke the law is why I got stopped!) This was typical both of leadership's attitudes, and follower's willingness to go against their better judgement.

Scout... they suspended LEAD during the fog years (late 80s) and sold Tinnie, but picked it back up again with Ed & Jacque H****Y at Gunnison.

WG... back in '82 I don't think many (any?) states had laws about riding in the back of trucks. People and dogs did it all the time.

Let me add my thanks, as well, HCW... I knew about this accident but can't remember exactly why/how since I had just gotten into twi at the time when it happened. I'm thinking it was mentioned later at Emporia (84-85) for some reason relating to "training". I distinctly remember hearing that there was a vehicle accident and that the blame fell squarely on the lack of believing of those involved. To now hear that they grouped you together and labeled you "weak" is mind-blowing. In that case, wouldn't it be their negative-believing about you guys that caused this whole mess? Well, actually I guess it was... with the extended evaluations and all. Keep posting. It is appreciated.

I didn’t get into twi until Craig had already been chosen. The first time I heard him speak, I also thought he was an insufferable pr#ck. (well said George!) But I was new, and he was pres-elect, so I just kept that thought to myself. I agree that VP ultimately chose Craiggers because of his showmanship. I’ve heard he really wanted (shoot! mind-blank… who used to teach corps night for him???) but he got talked into picking Craig because he was more charismatic than the others. Either way, I don’t think it ever occurred to Vic that he was going to lose control. Every single candidate for the presidency was a toady of his… I really think he thought he was just going to continue pulling the strings from behind the curtain; that stepping down would just give him a little more play time, that’s all. But I think that once Vic was no longer in the position where he could hold a club over their heads, Don and Howard and even Craig, automatically started pushing Vic off to the side. Whether this was conscious decision or an unconscious reaction is a mystery to me, but there is no doubt it happened. Throughout 84-85 I heard Don W. say snide things about his dad, and I definitely heard VP criticize LCM for his involvement in Athletes. And Vic’s last few teachings were all about “the leadership at HQ doesn’t have time for me, nobody wants me, boo-hoo-hoo”. As for lcm, I don’t think he planned anything. He just wasn’t that bright or cunning. I think he genuinely believed he was chosen by God, and that it was his responsibility to prove himself by finding new, exciting insights into the doctrine. He didn’t realize that 1) it wasn’t necessary and 2) he wasn’t capable. In my experience, truly self-involved people make dumb mistakes because they take an awful lot for granted. Craig and VP were no exception.

Quote: I recall Martindale blathering on about how if a person needed to be treated tenderly and needed to be healed...they should get the hell out of the corps and go to twig somewhere! Oh my... I remember him saying that... and I remember me thinking, "And if I needed healing and asked to bow out of corps training, you would be the first to tell me I wasn't believing God, and I was copping out on my commitment to be corps." Jardinero-- thanks for the hugs! You are right, I've had the "what if I'd spoken up" debate with others here and it pretty much comes down do "damned if you do, damned if you don't" but at least those of you who spoke up know you tried. PS---HWC, I too, would appreciate hearing the full story of the LEAD accident. I only vaguely remember it being mentioned, and blame being passed around. I was pretty new then and didn't pick up on things much.

Hope... good question... I settled where they deposited me, and stayed even after I got out of twi. I like it here, but have no family, old friends, etc. nearby. I certainly would have moved if not for the fact that this is HOME to my kid... my leaving twi wasn't enough reason to uproot him.

I moved six times in six years... the shortest time being shifted for three months to another campus during corps training, the longest being almost two years. (I was between twi programs!) Once we got assigned as corps we got dropped before we could get moved again, so it's been many, many years in one spot for me. And that's a BIG, BIG deal... when you are allowed to put down roots, you gain a greater sense of place and of self. No wonder they moved us around so much.

Whew!! You guys make me glad I never went WOW... But I did have my share of WOW experiences... When I was new in twi, we had WOWs come to our area. I loaned one family some old furniture, and 16-pc service of dishes, glasses, etc. with the understanding that they were to "steward" it for a year and return it to me. At the end of the year, I got the furniture ok, but only about 3 plates and 2 glasses back. I was like, "Where's my stuff?" and they were like, "That's it." I couldn't believe it... how can four people lose or destroy that much stuff in less than a year's time???? And it wasn't as if it had been fragile, dainty glass... it was regular ol' durable family dishware. Geez. I had to explain to the family members who had given it me that this SUPER religious group I was so excited about took lousy care of my stuff and no one cared or was gonna replace any of it. Nice. And then, on my interim-corps year the state coord talked us into sending a newbie-grad out WOW. A gal who had been molested as a child, and who had developed a sexual addiction because of it. She wanted to become a better person; more in control of herself but didn't have a clue how to do it. We convinced her going WOW would be a big step in the right direction. (Can you say, holy crap!!!) She was late arriving to the Rock because she stopped to have a fling with a trucker on the way there. She didn't last three months on the field before they cut her loose. Gave her no help. No guidance. No nothing. Just a boot out the door. Of all the people I did stupid things to, she is the one I feel the most guilty about. So, while I wouldn't describe myself as ever being a corps-nazi, when I recall these types of happenings, I have to face up to the fact, as HWC has said... there was certainly a goodly amount of disconnect and willful blindness to what was going on around me... No, I wasn't a corps-nazi, but I was one of those "good little citizens" who enabled the nazi's to do what they did without stepping up to the plate and calling the foul.

To address several tidbits I've read in this thread... 1 - Mxgnelli was 18th corps 2 - Johnny Lingo... I was 18th corps, and we were specifically taught that our job was to confront evil (as spoon-fed to us by HQ). This started with the 17th corps and the paranoid attitude that was started with the reading of POP. I could spend days giving you examples, but here's one that sums it up: my first assignment as corps, I was told by my limb coordinator not to get too comfy with the local believers because they didn't need a friend, they needed strong, determined, no-bs leadership who could tell them what's what. HAH! Here we were, wet-behind-the-ears kids in our twenties, telling experienced, middle-aged parents and business owners what was what. (yes, we were idiots!) 3 - Eagle and Excathedra, you both have described my experience of the 90s exactly! Pressure, contantly changing standards that no human being could uphold, and the never-ending threat of getting chewed out for some slight infraction, all of which were multiplied if you were corps. 4- Everyone's descriptions of being reproved for being five minutes too early, fine minutes too late, bringing kids, not bringing kids, doing what you were told to do, not doing what you were not told to do... oh my GOSH... the memories! The sickening, sickening memories!!! My fellowship coordinators seemed to get a big kick out of finding things my 5-6yr old kid did wrong... he didn't look them in the eye when they talked to him, he got distracted during the teaching, he didn't sing along with the songs, he fell asleep in fellowship, he snuggled against me too close (yup, I actually got reproved for letting my kid show me affection in fellowship!!!)And I saw them also reprove a newbie's child for answering a retorical question during a teaching. I just wanted to melt into the sofa. 4-HWC, you are exactly right... what the heck were we thinking for putting up with all of this!!??! 5- Apprentice Year: There was no training of any value and very little screening or evaluation during my apprentice year. They weeded out those who gave them too much trouble for one reason or another but other than that, if you showed up to the meetings and did the things you were assigned to do, and came up with the money, you were IN. 6- As for the theory that decent people going in were basically decent people coming out... yes and no. Many of the decent people going in LEFT and didn't graduate as corps. The rest of us decent people going in, stifled ourselves and did our best to conform to the current twi standards for leadership. And then we got on the field and were under the directives of our state leadership, so a lot depended on who that was... if they were mini-mogs you ended up doing things you would never have dreamt of doing pre-corps-training. And a lot of folks that seemed pretty decent to me during our training, well... Mxgnelli, Andersxn, Bxlchalk, Chxller... I think Sunesis has it right... these men were "chosen" from the beginning and every one knew it. They were the twig and branch coords in-rez. The rest of us were just worker bees. How could it "not" impact their ego?

Ex... R!co and his wife R@b!n are 18th corps and were on the fast track to the top ranks pretty much from graduation on... he's been twi's PR mouthpiece for some time now.

The PR-guy (R!c* M*n*ll!)... what a sleezy schmuck! I remember him being such a good guy back in the beginning, and it pains me to see him spewing that crap about "family dwellings" and "ministry functions", blah blah blah... and "we don't believe Dr. Wierwille ever made them that promise..." Boy, I'd love to just smack that smug smile right off his kisser. But I loved her comeback, "What, do they think we just went and buried them all by ourselves?" in other words... we kinda had to have somebody's approval to even do this in the first place... DUH!!!! I can only hope lots and lots of folks saw the footage.

skyrider, Thanks for the clarification. I admit I haven't spoken to any corps alum lately who is still in and says things are better. But that is the standard statement from all the current twiglets... "Now that lcm is gone, twi has backed off the legalism and its all good now." I can only speculate that those who remain as loyal corps alum today pretty much bought all of lcm's twisting-turning rationalizations as god-breathed, are thankful for their status, and would just as soon cut off their own arm than leave their beloved ministry. (Even despite my harsh feelings toward my status, I did my best to put those feelings aside and I did exactly what they told me to do for another several years!!) For these people, if twi tells them things are better now, well by golly, things are better now. End of discussion. Looking closely at the details is not even considered.

Skyrider, I am trying to understand your post but it sounds like you are saying that those corps who are alums and still around somehow prefer that status? "...why is it considered "better" for them now?" I'm not sure where that thought is coming from. Most of us were "demoted" not by choice but by mandate. Try to imagine: On one hand we were told that we had missed the mark. We were a major disappointment. We had not lived up to the standard, even though it had always been possible for us to do so with God's help. But we had blown it. We had somehow not lived up to our commitment and had no one to blame but ourselves. It was only God's grace and mercy that allowed us to remain a part of THE ministry: twi, the grand and glorious. And then we get this letter. A letter stating that we weren't so bad after all. Stating that we were too well-trained and that they had invested far too much in our lives to just let us fall by the wayside and not be utilized to our full potential... After all, vpw had put together the corps program to train the clergy, and somehow that had gotten diluted down to be training for twig-leaders. And if we were only leaders of tens, and not leaders of 100s, well, we were still leaders, right? So lcm made up a new category for us: corps alum. I was so unhappy when I got that letter. That nametag. Corps Alum status was not a relief, it was a burden. It meant that I was back in the pressure cooker. It meant I had all the responsibility with none of the backing. It meant I was still going to be judged against a standard they had already told me I wasn't living up to... That nametag was like a brand. They might as well have called us "god's losers" as "corps alums". Oh, and the real kicker? Two weeks after receiving our letter, some of us got our butts chewed out royally because we hadn't thought enough of lcm's generous gesture to drop him a "thankyou" note. How could we be so ungrateful? I can't speak for those who are still in twi, but let's face it, if they are still loyal they are not thinking clearly are they? (with the noted exception of those that are sticking it out for family's sake) TWI is great at serving people "moose turd pie" and getting them to say "it's good though" because they know that the consequences of recognizing the crap for what it is puts them in a much more difficult situation. So you eat the crap and you praise its taste and you get along quietly, or you don't and you end up leaving. There really isn't much room in-between.

There were things that hit me the wrong way right from the start (early 1980s) but I figured "nothing's perfect". I experienced my real first "wakeup" moment right before graduating from the corps, but by then I was far too adept at shrugging things off to let it settle in my brain for long. It was only throughout the 90s as our leadership ROUTINELY set us up and hung us out to dry than I began to get fed up. And when I began to see the leadership make mistakes and not admit them, let alone apologize, yet threaten to have others booted for the same kinds of mistakes I'd had enough.

See Me, Thank you for this post... it clarifies so much. Thank you and your brave daughter for doing the right thing!! It is not easy to stand up to twi when they rally their forces and all their lies. And finally, thank you for continuing to raise Mark and Susie's son. It gives me great pleasure and a definate sense of relief to know he's not being raised in twi.

Shellon, Please, please don't put yourself through that about your husband... if he wasn't ready to listen, he just wasn't. And there isn't a darned thing you could have done to make him "ready"! Back in the 80s a dear friend of mine left twi over POP. She wore me out trying to convince me I should leave. I finally broke off the friendship over it. (just before twi started explicitly telling us to break off ties with "those" people) Years later, I found myself in exactly the same boat... I wanted out, but my husband couldn't/wouldn't hear anything I had to say. Banned me from the internet. Banned anything negative from being said about twi. Period. It's the same as any addictive behavior: you cannot make someone listen to sense when they don't want to hear it. They will do, say, and justify anything to keep themselves in their comfort zone. Consequences be damned. As for breaking up marriages... yup, twi made it an art form. Subtle and not-so-subtle comments made to this spouse about that spouse... "you are unequally yoked" and "he will end up dragging you down with him" is what I heard for years, but suddenly when I wanted answers, I was the one they said these things about, encouraging my husband to set all kinds of rules and limits on me and send them weekly reports about how he was in control now. What a joke!

Belle, I experienced nearly identical changes while in twi (clearly we had the same kind of husband!) and received the same kind of comments when I got out. Even my son (who never knew me pre-twi) comments about how different I am now... how much more fun I am now. I stress to him that THIS is the real me, not the way I was! And the comment about how small the body of christ was while in twi... I remember a distinct feeling I got the day after I parted company with the twits: suddenly the whole world seemed HUGE and open and full of possibilities. It was the first time I realized what a teeny-tiny-little-itsy-bitsy box I had put myself into over the years. Enjoy the freedom!!!!! It's great out here!

This is so great!! Thanks for sharing with all of us!!

Ooh, oooh, oooooh... Can't wait. Must go tomorrow and reserve a copy at Borders!! Thanks for the heads-up.

I'm just stunned... I knew these people. They seemed like nothing but genuinely good people. Suzie was just a sweetie. I knew he had been her bus driver and had been told he'd waited awhile to ask her out. But I always thought he was a youngish driver that was attracted to an oldish high school kid, with not many years between their ages. I had no idea he was much older or that he was after her at such a young age. It really changes my perspective on the whole thing. I remember that corps night after Suzie died. Mark got run through the fan-blades over and over again by lcm. But craig didn't have anything good to say about her, her twi-bosses, or the medical staff, either. Everyone was to blame in his eyes, even "ministry women" as a whole. I had wondered at the time how Mark could even lift his head after the double-whammy of losing his wife and then being publically reamed. And I remember craig telling us that after Mark listened to the tape of what was said, he admitted it was his long-standing fear of losing his wife that had triggered the whole chain of events. I admired him for standing up under all the pressure. Some time later I saw him pushing the baby in a stroller at HQ. I remember thinking how bittersweet it would be to watch your child grow up and see your missing spouse in their looks, their gestures, their personality. I felt really bad for him. But now, geez. I almost feel the way I did when the truth about lcm's antics finally sunk into my head. Just... wow... crap... wow... damn... his poor kid... wow... hope he rots... wow...

Don't want to derail the thread here, but actually def is not far off... while in-rez we were actively discouraged from leading people into speaking-in-tongues on our own. We were told it wasn't "wrong" but opened the door for so much misunderstanding and for people to go off on their own tangents that it was far better to have them take the class to learn about sit... can you say, "filthy lucre"?