TheHighWay

Railroader... I went to eBay and you are right, they are selling all kinds of twi CDs I don't remember twi selling... some individual teachings, and a CD-version of the "It's Hot" audio tape. Wonder if they can do this because they are located out of the country? Anyway... they have a CD with a cover pic of doc-vic picking a guitar at a family table... somehow I never knew vpw played guitar... did he really or was this just a posed pic?

Georio... I'm so sorry for your lost friend! Boy, doesn't that just cut right thru all twi's b.s. about being nicer now and not telling anyone not to have contact... the facts speak louder than their words.

Rascal... try http://www.classmates.com You click on your state, city and then school name... what you get is a list of folks who have already listed themselves... you can browse the list and list your name for free... you only have to pay a fee if you want to contact someone, and their fees are reasonable. The gals are listed by maiden name. This is how I've found a great many of my old friends. By the way... The Way College of Emporia is listed as a school on this site and I've found some old ex-twi friends there as well. (don't know if any of the other campus locations are listed...)

I think Bob has hit in on the nose... these people are so convinced that they are RIGHT and RIGHTEOUS, that absolutely any means justifies the ends to them... and they have no idea how idiotic they look to "real" people who are not locked into their beliefs. (just look at Tom Cruise's behavior... not to derail this thread) These folks have talked themselves into believing that anything they do to protect and serve twi is GODLY. Period. I had so many arguments with my ex about this... it didn't matter that the people who were running the ministry did bad things. GOD gave this ministry to Dr.W. and GOD could see it thru any hardship. The mistakes didn't matter... keeping the ministry up and running did. This was his argument for everything I would bring up. And it was his solution to every problem. As long as we keep twi running, God will make sure it all comes out for good. How he could reconcile "keeping twi running" and not actually addressing error, I don't know... I think so many of these folks are ultimately lazy... it is, after all, so much easier to point out other peoples' faults and demand they change than to look in the mirror and address your own faults.

Rascal, If you have any leads on those old friends, I'd follow them up if I were you... I had also severed ties due to twi... but when I got out, I tracked a lot of those old high school and college friends down... Just told them I'd made some bad decisions, and was sorry and would love to hear about their lives to date. It's been great. There have been phone conversations and emails and small get-togethers and big ones... at "our" age (early forties) we've mostly all made some stupid decisions in our lives and are pretty forgiving of one-another. I don't know what it is... I have friends from my "current" life (dear, close friends) but it's the ones from the old days that mean the most to me... they are a part of who I am and always will be. And I am truly thankful to have them back in my life.

I just saw some clips of the interview... whew!! Cruise WAS harsh. And, no, I don't remember ever treating anyone with such contempt... not to their face. But we were certainly taught to think that way about other groups and their beliefs... we were taught to disdain other churches, psychiatry, even (at times) seeking medical help when needed. And we were taught that OUR research and OUR sources of information were so much more superior than anyone else's. You can pick at my words if you want, but I'm still amazed at the feeding frenzy on this thread. The guy is in a cult. He adamantly believes what he's been lead to believe. Step-by-step... JUST the way we were in twi. He already had a healthy dose of ego going for him... add fame and fortune at a fairly early age... mix in the whole cult thing and you see before you a class-1-A butt-H*le, ala Craiggers. I still feel sorry for him.

Groucho and Linda... It was well known in my time (late 80s early 90s) that the "regular" corps being trained at Emporia and Gunnison were being openly trained to think they were FAR better than any corps being trained at Indiana and even at HQ. (Think about who the campus leadership was, and what was going on in twi, and you'll understand much of this attitude.) I was trained mostly at HQ, but was at Indiana campus (LOVED the place, LOVED the people!!) when a group of corps came in from Emporia to help with the AC that summer. Some were very in-our-face about their opinions, while others admitted they had been taught that they were superior, but now they saw things for themselves they were questioning that attitude. Yeah... now THAT's likemindedness.

I feel sorry for him, actually. He's out there putting it all on the line because he BELIEVES this stuff. He's been into it for years, so he's been properly manipulated and conditioned... it just rings too close to home for me to get p.o.'d with him. How many of us were just as arrogant and adamant? We just didn't have the "priviledge" of doing it on national TV... I wonder what's it gonna take to make him snap? It took being miserable for years, and a lawsuit to wake me up to twi... his wealth and carrier may shield him from any negatives that are experienced within his cult. It's sad to watch.

This thread made me curious about what the new owners did with the place... for so long they didn't seem to be doing anything with it. But apparently for the past two years it has been host to sports camps... soccer and baseball. Looks like they have turned the farmed areas into playing fields, but changed little else. The rooms actually look pretty decent... wonder if they've installed more bathrooms? http://www.bluechipusa.net/index2.html

Yeah... making the most of her 15 minutes of fame... that poor woman is certifiable, though... just a mess if you ask me.

Yeah... I remember what a shock it was to everyone when Loy announced T!immy was a big fan of the "Goosebumps" series of books!!! WHAT???? But those are downright devilish!! Nope, not once it was Loy's kid reading them... suddenly the line was, "We've taught him the Word, and he's mature enough to know the difference between fact and fiction." Well, duh. I know I sure used that example to loosen some bonds in my household (when the local mini-mog gave me grief about something I quoted Craiggers verbatim... NYAH!!)

Catcup... I had a similar experience recently... graduation ceremony where the speaker was trying to motivate his student listeners to continue learning in life... good message, but I did what you did: saw it all coming a mile away, saw every technique (yes, your corps training kicking in!!) The only good thing is that it didn't upset me, it just made it hard to listen. Belle... like you, when I heard this presentation, I suddenly had a hard time liking or trusting the speaker. Even though I KNEW he was a good guy, with good intentions toward the students he was addressing, the back of my brain kept up a constant chant of "is this the cheesiest, most predictable speech you've ever heard? Isn't it obvious to everyone its just a pep talk?" It didn't occur to me until reading this thread that probably most of the adults in the audience, while recognizing a pep talk when they heard it, didn't pick the thing apart and instantly dislike the speaker! Don't worry about the way-brain... every time it happens and YOU RECOGNIZE IT for what it is... that's progress!!!

I was in-rez the year they were working on AOS, and every time Craig came to town (Emporia) he would talk at great length about every aspect of the production... his thought processes, the reasons behind all the costumes and dance moves, blah-dee-blah-blah... I'm sure I have the specifics somewhere in my notes, but off the top of my head, he stated that Sly Stallone was clearly "influenced" because at the time he and his wife were planning the timing of the conception of their child with star charts and the like. Because Sly was "influenced" he was getting insight into how to put "Satan's Alley" together accurately... ruling spirits, underling spirits, the decadence,writhing, etc. Craig said he wanted to do it from a Godly, Biblically accurate perspective. (essentially showing the devil up, not that he put it like that)

Do you all remember that Loy-boy accused Sly of stealing his ideas for this movie from their original Athletes ROA production? Supposedly that was part of the reason Loy wanted to do a full-blown AOS... he stated he wanted to "do it right" and thumb his nose at Hollywood's devil spirits. Oh my... talk about ego.

Just curious... did they have the Intermediate Class sessions posted? They aren't there now... Yes, I definately agree, reading the words makes that 1960s whiney VPW voice come popping right back into my head. Now, THAT's possession!

How programmed was I? I remember the change-over from spontaneous fun with songs to, "we must be decent and in order in all things"... I thought it showed how like-minded we were that you could go from one fellowship to another and get the same thing... DUH! On the other hand, I had music training pre-twi and habitually conducted some songs differently than we had been taught... got corrected more than a few times over it, even though I knew my way was just fine musically. As for breaking into song walking the corridors of the way, there was a corps brother of mine who did that daily, and we all loved it... God Love you Kurt, wherever you are.

I like some of the programs, and seriously dislike others... so what's new there? Let the government pull the funding. The really good stuff will find a way to move to a different venue. The truly lousy stuff will die off and good riddence.

Wonderful posts on the subject of debt and twi's twisting of scriptures. Thanks Socks and all for posting this!! I also knew Rico and Robin before they became waybots. They are both strong-willed people who are very passionate about what they believe... Once that was a good thing. They were refreshing and exciting to listen to... now they are both waybots of the highest magnitude. George... the last time I saw Robin she'd been completely transformed into a "Mrs. Rev. So-and-So"... the lame dress, the badly-done makeup and frumpy hair style. (this was about 5 years ago at HQ). Sorry. Thanks again, everyone, for the debt info!!

Okay... I know this has been discussed before, but I honestly never paid much attention. (just one more set of religious beliefs I didn't want to discuss) Of all silly things, it is Tom Cruise's recent lack of self-discipline in hyping his religious beliefs on what was supposed to be his "War of the Worlds" PR-junket that motivated me to look closer into the beliefs and structure of "Scientology"... HOLY CRAP!!! And I thought I believed a bunch of hooey in TWI... sheesh... once the scientologists reached the top levels, they believe this planet was seeded by some space alien named Xenu, who moved volcanoes around in boxes!! Anyway, I found a very informative site done by an ex member... once again proving a cult is a cult is a cult... Here is a list of their methods, derived from testimony from hundreds of ex-followers. Reading this was like reliving the past 19 years of my life!! ------------------------------------------------ THOUGHT CONTROL AND SCIENTOLOGY “The only way you can control people is to lie to them.” - L. Ron Hubbard, “Off the Time Track,” lecture of June 1952, excerpted in JOURNAL OF SCIENTOLOGY, issue 18-G, reprinted in TECHNICAL VOLUMES OF DIANETICS & SCIENTOLOGY, vol. 1, p. 418. ____________________ One becomes a Scientologist by (to varying degrees) substituting L. Ron Hubbard’s perception of reality for one’s own. Scientology is not swallowed whole; it is accepted incrementally via a carefully constructed series of agreements into which the individual is led, bolstered by profoundly invasive hypnotic techniques, peer pressure, hard-sell tactics and “whipped up gung-ho.” This is a subtle, effective process that inhibits evaluative thinking and entraps people “through deceptive manipulation of our best qualities: loyalty, courage, desire to help.” Scientology appeals to people by offering them a grand game; a unique and comprehensive self-improvement system; a solution for almost every problem (many people come to Scientology when their lives are in crisis); and a welcoming group focused on major societal issues such as drug abuse, mental health, education, spirituality and morality. After joining the Church of Scientology, one meets with increasing demands for money, time and recruiting others. Those who resist these demands bolt, usually quickly. Those who remain go step-by-step into agreement with indoctrination, all the while believing that they are becoming more aware and self determined. How and why people surrender their critical thinking skills and succumb to “re-education” has been the subject of study and controversy since the 1950s, when researchers began to encounter forms of coercive persuasion, or ideological re-molding, that were developed in China and the Soviet Union and were used on prisoners of war and on civilians in a variety of milieus. The methods of thought reform identified by such groundbreaking investigators as Dr. Robert J. Lifton and the late Dr. Margaret Thaler Singer have been shown to be present in virtually all high-demand religions presently operating in the United States and the Western world. This current generation of thought reform practices, in the opinion of many researchers, poses a greater threat than did the politically oriented behavior control practices of the past because its primary attack is not just upon the individual’s political views but rather upon the sense of self. “Basic consciousness, reality awareness, beliefs and world view, emotional control, and defense mechanisms” are destabilized, with resultant loss of independent perspective and thus of the capacity for informed consent. Some of the influence techniques that attract and hold people in a thought reform environment are: 1)Creating a triad of “miracle, mystery, and authority…MIRACLE - ideology imputing miraculous powers to leaders and/or activities…to produce an atmosphere of awe…MYSTERY - secrecy obscuring actual beliefs and practices…[which] hides unattractive aspects of cult routine…AUTHORITY - claims on members’ time, talents, bodies or property to meet group needs. A leader‘s allegedly immense intellectual, spiritual, or even physical powers may rationalize whims and doctrines, [allowing him] to hold sway over followers. While leaders are intelligent and articulate, often their biographies and abilities are puffed up.” 2)Attributing “all individual suffering to misapplication, misunderstanding or even casual doubting of the group’s unfailing teaching.” 3)Inducing “sensory deprivation and sensory overload, guided imagery and visualization, trance induction through repetition of words or slogans…” 4)Controlling the environment, i.e., the group member “is deprived of the combination of external information and inner reflection which anyone requires to test the realities of his environment and to maintain a measure of identity separate from it.” 5)Creating a mystique of importance around the group and its leader, so that the group and its goals are seen as more important than anything else. 6)Requiring a level of perfection that is unattainable, with consequent guilt and shame serving as powerful control devices. 7)Demanding extraordinary levels of confession, including confession to crimes that one has not committed, making it “virtually impossible to maintain a reasonable balance between worth and humility.” 8)Claiming absolute infallibility of the group’s leader and doctrine. 9)Creating a unique language, often non-understandable to outsiders, the effect of which “can be summed up in one word: constriction…. [The group member] is, so to speak, linguistically deprived; and since language is so central to all human experience, his capacities for thinking and feeling are immensely narrowed.” 9)Giving the member a new identity by bringing his or her thinking into alignment with the group’s, prompting a redefinition of the self and a reinterpretation of the past in terms of the new present. The individual “switches worlds…and through socialization, discovers the ‘plausibility structures’ that make the new world coherent, fully tangible and fully believable…The formula for reinterpretation of the past is, ‘Then I thought...now I know.’ 10)Relegating outsiders to the status of reduced value or non-person. (They brand people with the label "SP" for Suppressive Person, and order their followers to have no contact. They believe that if you are an SP, they can say anything they want about you, even blatant lies, because you are so evil, it's probably true even if there is no proof whatsoever.) ------------------------------------------------ The author footnotes all this info but I removed them rather than list all his references. For a further look go to: http://www.xenu.net/archive/infopack/7.htm Have any of you had any direct dealings with scientology or scientologists? I suspect the "average believers" are much like you and I were... decent folks looking for some kind of answers and structure in their lives.

Here you go, Abigail... Wish You Were Here So, so you think you can tell Heaven from Hell, Blue skys from pain. Can you tell a green field From a cold steel rail? A smile from a veil? Do you think you can tell? And did they get you to trade Your heros for ghosts? Hot ashes for trees? Hot air for a cool breeze? Cold comfort for change? And did you exchange A walk on part in the war For a lead role in a cage? How I wish, how I wish you were here. We're just two lost souls Swimming in a fish bowl, Year after year, Running over the same old ground. What have we found? The same old fears. Wish you were here.

Z... Pink Floyd did: Wish you were here... Chicago did: Wishing you were here.

Yes, yes, yes... all excellent points. BUT... if you speak out of your beliefs that homosexuality is questionable, you ARE a hate group. Period. These are the times in which we live.

Bramble... thanks for your post. I think that often statistics just don't communicate the day-to-day, case-by-case facts and give the wrong impression. Especially noteworthy: most are expelled due to lack of payment!!! This has absolutely nothing to do with the child. Not behavior, not grades, not attendence. It's all about the parent's finances. Why isn't there a different category for this type of "drop"? Makes me wonder if this survey counted these in with all the "real" expulsions?

What clearly stands out is that both groups readily "morphed" into the roles they were given. Just like many of us did in twi... "You are Corps-- this means God called you, you answered, you are special, and you are responsible to oversee, control, and get the best performance out of the people under you." "You other people... you are NOT CORPS -- this means you are God's chosen, but not His Special people. You have SOME privileges, but most of them have to be awarded or at least approved by the "spiritual perception" (aka whim) of your leadership. You are not bad, but you are not necessarily good, either." "Finally, we have everyone outside the household. These people are bad. Bad for not hearing God's call to twi. Bad for not heeding God's call. Or worse, BAD for walking away from twi." And we all played our roles out to scary detail.

Rerail --- I think Craig actually majored in Psychology, not phys-ed. But I believe he was there on a football scholarship, even though he was a red-shirt for most of his university career. (University of Kansas, in Lawrence,KS)