TheHighWay

Galen, To me, it is the attitude and self-confidence you had, (which allowed you to follow your own path thru twi) that has set you apart from so many of us. We were looking for a direction, for someone to lead us along a good path, and we completely trusted that we had found such a group. We may have stood up for ourselves or others at times along the way, but mostly we FOLLOWED. Our expectations were higher than yours, and therefore our disappointments were deeper than yours. And frankly, "followers" are what twi was/is good at attracting. Even as people climbed the leadership ranks, (especially as things progressed after 1985) they couldn't do so unless they were complete and total "followers". Yes, I had some good experiences in twi. I had some experiences I probably never would have had if I hadn't been involved. But none of them were life-defining in a good way. Looking back from my 40-something perspective, I would probably have learned better life lessons in another group, or even if I were not affiliated with any group. So many promises made. So many disappointments. It's just a shame.

Does anyone know for sure what the H2rn6y's current "assignment" is? I am finding information indicating that J@cque has been writing and editing pretty much full-time since fall 2004... and if what Belle said is right, she lives some distance from HQ... are they not leadership anymore???

Shortfuse, You might understand my perspective a little better if you know that I was around this gal for years, and she was so gung-ho ministry, I was literally shocked when I read her resume. 1)because she's actually seeking work outside of twi, and 2)because she didn't boldly proclaim "biblical leadership training" If my sarcastic remark rubbed you the wrong way... well, we are all entitled to our opinion.

I've never worked for twi (well, okay, I've never received a paycheck!), but I went from the College Division into the Corps, so I definately had to fill some gaps on my first few resume's out on the field. I did use "The Way" with their formal campus names (Emporia and Indiana) but I simply put "leadership training program". I have no problem with people shaping their resume's... you have to market your skill sets to the type of job you are seeking. But to call way corps training "corporate leadership training" is, to me, a bit beyond the pail.

I was killing time today, and did a Google on "Way Corps". Way down in the very last pages, I actually ran across a current top leadership wife's resume. (J@cqu!e H*rn^y) She IS still top leadership, right? Apparently she does editing and proofing on the side. Okay, that's an interesting topic for discussion on its own. But, what really caught my eye was her description of the Way Corps program... TRAINING: 2001–2003 Multiple in-house training classes for writing, editing, and proofreading English 3200 Harbrace, English Composition and Grammar 1983–1987 The Way Corps, Corporate Leadership Training Program Yeah... some of us have been saying this for years, now... no Bible involved, just pure corporate tactics!!

Good topic, Lindy... I found myself referring to "the ministry" a lot, as well. Not only does it draw confused looks from non-twi-associated people, but I realized it was still giving singularity and deference to a group I loathe. So I made a conscious decision to "demote" this group and its top leadership... Replace "Rev. Martindale" with craig, craiggers, martindale, lcm (lowercase), or the forehead Replace "Dr. Wierwille" with vic, vp, vpw, or wierwille Replace "the ministry" and "the way" with twi or the way international It takes a little effort, and I'm sure I slip up from time to time, but it is a far better use of my time than learning how to not say "Christmas, Easter, or Halloween"!!

Huh. And how many wayfers have sat in a courtroom and testified that twi has no "mark and avoid" policy? (the custody case, the Allen case, others?) What a pit of vipers these people are. "Welcome to the Way. We are so glad you are here. Please step up to the scanner... we just need to make sure you have no brain, heart, or backbone before we can allow you the privilege of listening to our christian elevator music and our packaged sermons." I would love to be able to attend a SNS with a hidden camera... get a good shot of these screening policies... but there are too many folks at HQ that would recognize me on sight and know I'm an ex-er. I doubt I would make it across the parking lot, let alone inside the auditorium or up to the check-list table!

We were SPECIFICALLY taught by our limb coordinators in the 1990's that Romans gave Believers an open door for "any" type of conduct whatsoever... the only limitation on this being: don't let your behavior be a stumbling block for someone else's believing. So... They said there was NOTHING in the new testament forbidding bed-hopping, but that you were foolish to think you weren't going to hurt people in the process, and so twi frowned on such activities. Yup... clear as mud... don't ask, don't tell... They actually made a point of going to all the local fellowships around the state to present this teaching. (I can't remember the exact time frame of this, but looking back it's clear there must have been some kind of internal scandal going on, for them to have made such an effort to get the "doctrine" out like this. I wonder if it was just within our state, or if it was a regional or national thing...) When one long-time-twi couple stood their ground at a meeting and said they didn't believe Romans really meant "anything goes as long as no one gets hurt". They knew that wasn't right and Godly behavior. They were castigated for putting their own beliefs over that of the Bible (aka twi's interpretation) and left twi shortly after that in disgrace. It was my first up-close experience with twi driving away really good, decent, long-standing believers over the "issue of the day".

Yes, Dan is who I was thinking of... genuine Aramaic scholar. Research Geek.... where are you? (He could probably give us more insight into the research dept.)

Yes, I will have to count myself in with this group. I spent several years trying very hard to "be my best" and show others how to "be their best"... which we all know means beating myself up over every little thing, and being so miserable that I beat everybody else up, too. Everything had to be SO perfect. 24/7 There were times I would feel so bad or guilty for what I had just done or said, but I never told anyone because I thought I was the one who wasn't thinking right. I wasn't tight enough with God; wasn't tough enough on the Word. After all, I was carrying out my leadership's instructions!! Once I left twi, the FIRST thing I did was look up everyone I could think of and apologize. Most of these wonderful people had left years before. I even wrote letters to a couple of folks who were still fellowshipping. With only one exception, my apologies were gladly accepted. The one exception were folks who were still stuck in the "blame everyone but myself mode" (which was the problem they had all along). It's just shocking to look back and realize how far I was willing to go, down a path I hated, because I trusted the ones telling me to take that path more than I trusted my own gut instincts.

Walter Cummins was the one I was thinking of that studied Greek. There was another man that studied the Aramaic extensively and had a lot to do with the interlinear that was written. He parted ways with twi sometime after 1985, but I'm not clear on exactly when. I agree, there are different levels of "working the word". Someone with a good sense of logic and a concordance (maybe a few other tools) can gain a lot of understanding. But, I do think a more thorough knowlege of Greek/Aramaic, and of the history of various Biblical versions and ancient texts is necessary for someone in a research department. I do realize that wasn't the case with a lot of the folks in twi's research department, and I know some very good-hearted folks did some very good-hearted work. But I also know, if you disagreed with VP or Craig, you didn't STAY on the research team, so what does that tell you about their motives or honesty or integrity? Ricky, I'm sorry if we seem to be attacking you. It isn't fair of us to dismiss your current situation as untrue. It's just hard for those of us who were treated so callously and deceitfully to trust what is on the surface regarding anything twi. So, your guy says he knows you are on the web and doesn't care that you post. I think what most of us here are trying to say is: Good for him. Good for you. Watch your back. Either twi has decided they cannot control the world wide web and are genuinely backing down, or they are pulling a "China". (At the old Advanced Classes, Vic used to play us a tape by a western man that lived through regime changes in China (or some such eastern culture)... the regime would be VERY strict for awhile, then loosen up the rules... just long enough for anyone bold enough to dissent to voice their opinions and give themselves away... then they would round up these dissidents, have them killed or imprisoned and go back to VERY strict rules again. The man said he saw this happen over and over again, but people were so desperate to believe that things would be better, some fell for the "loosening of rules" every single time it was done.) Only time will truly tell. But for those of us who lived through POP, and the 90's, our experience says, "looks good, but I'm betting on 'China'". We've just seen it happen too many times, first hand.

WordWolf, you beat me to the punch... I'm trying to remember the name of the guy who studied under some of the leading experts in Aramaic, at the University of Chicago, and later he traveled to Europe and the Middle East to study old texts. And didn't some of the research team actually go to college to study Greek? It has been a Long, Long time since twi had that kind of scholar in their research department!

Ricky, I sincerely hope for your sake that this new class contains something worth listening to... however, it does concern me that you seemed to enjoy Martindale's class (at least well enough that you are excited about a new version). I had a very hard time sitting through that mish-mash of unfinished thoughts and non-sequitors... whew. BUT... you want to hear something positive about the old PFAL class? Okay, it was FAR more understandable and rational than Martindale's class! Nevermind the fact that Vic stole most of the ideas, and lied about his own credentials, and that several key concepts fall apart if you follow them to their logical conclusions, and that he blamed bright lights for his eye-cancer... at least you felt like you were learning something helpful and could laugh (or at least roll your eyes) at his jokes. Oh, and the cookies and coffee were usually really good, too. And most of the people were wonderful. The best part of the whole experience. I also need to "second" Oakspear's question: does your leadership know you are posting here? I, too, was booted from twi because they found out I was posting here. Of course, there was that letter that Harve Platig asked to have posted here concerning the treatment of Mrs. Wierwille... And there is that, "we're friendlier now" face that they are trying to portray... Guess that makes all the bad stuff "go away". Sorry, I just think if it is okay for Believers to post here now, those of us who got "Mark and Avoid" over it, deserve a written apology from Rosalie Rivenbark herself.

Patriot, I was 18th corps. We may know each other. I was at HQ, mostly. THW

Robes, I sincerely wish I could take credit for dubbing craig martindale as "the forehead" but it wasn't me. I use it, because it is THE perfect description. But I didn't originate it. Glad you liked it, though.

This is great! I pictured Armin Shimerman standing on the stage of the WOW Auditorium, reading this list, eyes glinting, smiling his little half-Quark-smile. Rule 006: "Never allow family to stand in the way of opportunity." Amen and Amen. (or should I say Armin and Armin)

Young and naive, I would say. Full of life and hope and great expectations. (Sigh) May they get out before they get too hurt.

Some good posts here... Yes, I definately saw the signs before I got married to the man. And I talked myself into thinking it was just me... not him. That was the kind of person I was at the time, and I would probably have married someone very much like him, regardless. However, there is no question that twi promoted his kind of attitude and my kind of attitude. I saw it all around me in my leadership's lives and the examples they set. I saw it in what they commented on and didn't comment on, in my marriage. I saw it in how they "helped" when things got so obvious they had to step in. And I saw it in how they threw me out of the ministry for asking questions. Yes, I would have married the same type of person back then. But how much sooner I would have left? How much sooner I would have had opportunities to recognize my own self-worth? And how many more years would I have before me to get things right? And how much more of a chance to find the right kind of relationship to enjoy? I'm not playing the victim here. But, like others have said... this kind of marriage flourishes and thrives in a twi-type environment. And if just ONE person reads these posts and recognizes themselves within them... we've done a good thing.

Ditto what GreasyTech said... the 250 mile radius meant you had to go once a month. At first, it was kinda fun because we had recently lived at HQ and knew LOTS of folks. Sometimes we would even travel up a few days ahead and spend time with staff friends, then come home after SNS. But then came the mandates. You had to go on your state's scheduled Sunday. You had to have at least two adults in your car. And, you had to caravan with at least one other vehicle (which meant you usually had to compramise on your route, pit-stops, meal choices, travel times, etc.). And if you had kids it was worse because they would be EXHAUSTED for the next couple of days until they got back into their regular routine. Oh, and about that same time staff were being required to move back onto HQ grounds, and because they lived on-grounds they had to get permission for all visitors. It was ridiculous. I started hating that trip to HQ and trying to find ANY reason not to go. Outofdafog, "Way of Abundance of Ego"..... hahahahaha (snort) hahahahahahaha!!!

Man, oh man... Have you brought back memories. (not good ones!) First, there were the WEEKLY branch hookups. This was where you had to dress up on a Sunday morning, sit for two hours in hard straight-backed chairs, trying the entire time to keep you toddler from loosing his mind while still showing the proper respect for the Word (ie no books, toys, foods, naps, etc.), and trying to look enthused about hearing a teaching you were going to hear again in two days when you got the required SNS tape, and hear taught twice more at weekly fellowships that you were required to attend. Gee, how inspiring. And being corps you got to dress up twice a week! You fellas think having to wear a suit-and-tie was bad... once a week I had to rush home from work (stopping to pick up the child from daycare) get my ex fed to his satisfaction (NEVER fast-food!), put on a dress and make sure my makeup was decent, hop in the car and drive an HOUR to the limb leader's house, (thru mountains and snow in the winter) and listen to the forehead rant about how screwed up someone I knew and liked was, before telling us how blessed we were to be corps and hear him speak, and how spiritually significant we were to get to be in on these meetings, and then we would have yet another responsibility handed to us by our limb coordinators before leaving at 11:30pm, to drive the HOUR back home and try to get some sleep before getting up at 6am for work the next day. Oh---my---God. I cannot believe I actually did that for YEARS!!!!!! Worse still, we prided ourselves on this.

dmiller, To be honest, I was looking for "direction and guidance" when I got married. I really didn't have a problem with my husband taking the lead and would probably still have that mind set if I had married a guy who was upright and responsible and gave back, even a little. It's only fair to admit that. But over the years, as his incompetence and utter lack of ability to control himself or direct his own life in any kind of positive direction became more and more evident, and as I GREW as a person and gained confidence in my own skills at work and in the home and as a mom, it got harder and harder to take it when he "critiqued" EVERYTHING I did... it didn't matter how hard I tried, or how much effort I expended, or even if the local and state leadership told him (which they did a few times) how lucky he was to have married me... nothing I ever did was above criticism. Of course, to him, it wasn't criticism. It was "chosing best over good" and "striving for excellence". It's just that it was aimed non-stop in my direction and never in his own: The meal was okay (he ate every last bit) but I could have seasoned it better. In fact, he'd like it if I never made that meal again. It just wasn't to his taste. The house was clean (except for his socks laying on the floor in the living room) but when was I gonna get around to getting his shirts ironed? Yes, I washed the dishes after dinner but did I really need to air dry them before putting them away? (Of course, my suggestion that he get up off his duff and help dry them was met with stoney silence.) The laundry got done, but dang, he forgot to clean out his pockets again, and I missed it and washed his little notes (that twi promoted to help you be efficient in your use of time). Where was my attention to detail? Oh my... I could go on and on and on and on... (just when you think you've put it all behind you...)

I've posted this before, but for the sake of any newbies... You could combine the descriptions of Belle's and Chas's husbands and be describing mine exactly. He tried so hard to cover up the fact that he was a spineless wimp that he was always having to PROVE what a spiritual man he was... by twi's definition, of course. This meant: He was always right and if he knew I was right, he would say he was done discussing it, and get furious if I kept trying to discuss it. It meant that no matter how many jobs I might be working I was still expected to do all the "wifely" chores around the house (meaning EVERYTHING). And if he got in trouble with leadership (which happened often enough) he was quick to blame anything and everything but himself, and that usually included me. He literally dictated the schedule I kept, the food I ate, how much time I spent with my friends, what I volunteered for (twi, of course)... The stupid thing was, in the rare moments when he just relaxed and forgot about trying to be some skewed ideal of a man, he was a really decent, funny, bright, caring guy. He just didn't let that happen very often. He didn't come from an abusive family, but from an extremely distant and controlling one. I don't think he ever felt good about himself, and therefore was constantly trying to fill that hole in his soul with SOMETHING. I endured all kinds of bad habits and totally selfish behaviors, and got nowhere trying to help him see how self-destructive he was being. But, hey, let the leadership say the same exact things to him, and he'd act like it was new revelation. So frustrating!! And disappointing. I really did want the marriage to work, but eventually you just realize you are just a possession... like a car or something. No, he actually took better care of his car than he did of me. I realize this may sound like I'm a big, whiney witch. But the fact is, I was a GIVER and he was a TAKER. I get satisfaction by making other people happy. And he got satisfaction by doing whatever the ehll he wanted, consequences be dinged. Even after I left him, all he could talk about was what I was doing to HIM. Unbelievable.

ex70s, you are right... I've never hunted birds. I just get frustrated when people find ANY excuse to Bush/Cheney Bash, and I get a little defensive. I mean, there are actually people on capital hill calling for Cheney's resignation over this!! I think you are right. The parties involved have all declared this "oops" and no charges are being filed. So, being experientially unlearned in the subject, I respectfully remove myself from this conversation.

Well, I guess that's why they call them "accidents". Your "is anyone in this administration ever responsible for anything?" remark notwithstanding... The guy didn't let his friends know where he was, and Cheney spun and fired. Both stupid things to do.

Funny, all the reports I have heard this morning say the person at fault was the fella who got shot. Isn't is a hunting "rule" that you make your location known to your companions? This guy came up UNANNOUNCED and crossed near Chaney's line of fire just as the Veep was squeezing off a shot. This report was given by the person who owns the land and saw it happen.